Stuck in the Middle East

"but after the gaza withdrawal, didnt israel blockade the gaza strip?"

Only partially true. Israel did not blockade Gaza immediately after it left the Gaza strip in 2005. The blockade was only implemented in 2007, when Hamas came to power and violence ensued. It could be argued that had the Palestinians handled themselves differently, there would not be a blockade.

The blockade was preceded with a seemingly endless number assassination hit squads and EXTREMELY innacurate Israeli shelling missions that took a relatively HUGE toll in civilian casulaties. They kidnapped elected Hamas officials.

In short, they made anything but a violent (and desperate) response from Hamas just about impossible.

What is needed is a strong UN, mostly Arab peace keeping force, with the ability to prevent the IDF from crossing the border, and keeping the factions in gaza away from Israel.

When that happens, you will see peace.

ok fair enough, the blockade came after hamas came to power.
but will you concede that israel and GW bush provided arms (APCs, small arms), money, and training to fatah so they could kill all the hamas in gaza? do i have to go find a website for you or are you respectful enough to acknowledge?

conduct themselves differently.... so your sayin either hamas allows themselves to get slaughtered after winning a FAIR election.
Or else they get to live on less than $1 a day, their plumbing breaking so their shit mixes with their water. or unemployment running at 30%.

as a jew, who was victimised in WW2 (and throughout history), can you look at yourself in a mirror and be proud of crushing gaza?

Israel found letting the border with the terrorist stay open only resulted in the import of missiles that they then fire at Israeli civilian population. I understand your/terrorist point of view is no Jews anywhere in Israel and facts mean nothing to you only lies that you convince yourself of have meaning for you.

Israel found letting the border with the terrorist stay open only resulted in the import of missiles that they then fire at Israeli civilian population. I understand your/terrorist point of view is no Jews anywhere in Israel and facts mean nothing to you only lies that you convince yourself of have meaning for you.

Freeka1: dialogue with the deaf/dumb; Yes, you are wrong.

because it shows people around the world what settlers are like.

"Israel found letting the border with the terrorist stay open only resulted in the import of missiles that they then fire at Israeli civilian population."

Palestine found letting the border open only resulted in artillery, helicopters, missiles, bombs, being imported that they then fire at palestinian civilian population. similar, but more civilians die.

"I understand your/terrorist point of view is no Jews anywhere in Israel and facts mean nothing to you only lies that you convince yourself of have meaning for you."

you dont understand my view. you have not addressed any fact. i am not a terrorist. which lies. this conversation with you is childish, you lack the maturity/emotional stability to convince people of your argument.

Israel found letting the border with the terrorist stay open only resulted in the import of missiles that they then fire at Israeli civilian population. I understand your/terrorist point of view is no Jews anywhere in Israel and facts mean nothing to you only lies that you convince yourself of have meaning for you.

and furthermore, you have posted the same reply to this post and previous post, DISPITE different comments/opinions being made.

Ehud Barak just stated that Iran DOES NOT constitute an existential threat to Israel, Nukes or no Nukes. So much for Netayahus transparent distraction from finally being forced to take responsibility for, and end, the worlds only violently enforced colonial settler movement.

Bin Laden, by commenting of Walts book, just gave FURTHER evidence that al queada uses the Israeli Palestinian conflict (read, the ongoing settlements and occupation) to recruit new terrorist and raise support and funding. IE, the settlements are and always have been a pointless, morally indefensible security threat to the US.

I find it difficult to imagine why the settlements and occupation, something that is by definition morally objectionable to virtually the entire world, that has no security benefits for Israel, and that in fact Inspires terror against both Israel and the US, could be allowed to exist for another day. And now that we have cleared up all of that clap trap about Iran being a reason to stall, there is no time like the present.

regarding needing the "prefect solution" for all sides to comply, I would put it to you that the ONLY salient factor here is the removal of the settlements and the occupation, and the introduction of a strong UN mostly Arab peace keeping force that would ensure the factions stayed away from Israel, and that the settlers and the IDF would be kept out of Palestine under all circumstances. That would so dramatically improve the lives of so many Palestinians so quickly that the factions would lose political appeal from the get go as people got back to the business of having normal lives and a normal state.

Israel found letting the border with the terrorist stay open only resulted in the import of missiles that they then fire at Israeli civilian population. I understand your/terrorist point of view is no Jews anywhere in Israel and facts mean nothing to you only lies that you convince yourself of have meaning for you.

Jay,

I can appreciate that when defending something as loathsome as the worlds only violently enforced colonial settler movement (and I am refering to the settlers and their supporters, not Israel, I support Israel within its own borders) That the best course might be to grossly misstate the position of others so that your arguments never need to actually respond to the discussion at hand. Sure, call anyone who disagrees with you and the settlements that you are defending a terrorist or terrorist supporter. That will REALLY go over big in the US after the bush administration lied its way into Iraq using the same deplorable tactics. Make sure you refer to Obama and the entire Obama administration the same way, in that they advocate EXACTLY the same thing I am. Make sure that you label most Israelis the same way as well, in that most of them would also like to see the settlements and occupation removed for good.

It's really working. I am SURE anyone else reading this believes your gross mischaracterizations of my and other posters here and that they DO NOT see through you transparent tactics.

Beyond that, however, It seems that you have nothing of value to say.

Israel found letting the border with the terrorist stay open only resulted in the import of missiles that they then fire at Israeli civilian population. I understand your/terrorist point of view is no Jews anywhere in Israel and facts mean nothing to you only lies that you convince yourself of have meaning for you.

Pretty much spot on. The poster boy for the failure of AIPAC spouts pointless drivel that no one other than his inner circle finds relevant or believable at all.

I wonder whether Rosen, Weissman, Larry Franklin, and Jane Harmon have gotten together to talk about how live a better life than OJ Simpson after HE was acquitted? Or do you suppose they too will drive around the golf courses of the US looking for the people who ACTUALLY commited the crimes they were accused of? No, wait, they never even actually denied COMMITTING their crimes, and are probably still committing them when possible.

DEPRVEDITALIAN: Israel found letting the border with the terrorist stay open only resulted in the import of missiles that they then fire at Israeli civilian population. I understand your/terrorist point of view is no Jews anywhere in Israel and facts mean nothing to you only lies that you convince yourself of have meaning for you.

AchmatJihad, your boss man, is President of Iran for one reason and one reason only: Khomeini-ac desires him in that position; even as he engineers the Republican Guard take over: coup.

Jay, can I ask you an honest question? Are you capable of thinking for yourself? You've chosen to respond to nearly every comment on here with the exact same copied and pasted speech. For one, it shows that you really aren't interested in what anyone else is actually saying. By commenting on my post by making a statement about the blockade (which I never referred to), then engaging in ignorant name calling (saying I'm a terrorist) and concluding with some nonsense about Ahmadinejad (who I also never referred to), it suggests that you read neither my comment nor anyone elses. By pasting the same response to everyone else, it also shows me that you're probably incapable of actually forming original, independent thoughts. I wouldn't be suprised to find out that you just ripped off something Avigdor Lieberman said in an interview. By the way, DprvedItalian is very clever and original. Maybe I'm wrong about you after all.

Israel found letting the border with the terrorist stay open only resulted in the import of missiles that they then fire at Israeli civilian population. I understand your/terrorist point of view is no Jews anywhere in Israel and facts mean nothing to you only lies that you convince yourself of have meaning for you.

When I read the phrase "President Ahmedinejad's Nuclear Weapons Program".

Right now the assertion that Iran has a nuclear weapons program is a claim based on a hunch by the west. "they are enriching uranium, so they must be trying to build a bomb".

When I read such an openly blatant falsehood, I stopped reading this article, and scrolled down to see what others had to say about it.

It seems like there were other falsehoods in the article.

Israel found letting the border with the terrorist stay open only resulted in the import of missiles that they then fire at Israeli civilian population. I understand your/terrorist point of view is no Jews anywhere in Israel and facts mean nothing to you only lies that you convince yourself of have meaning for you.

AchmatJihad is President of Iran for one reason and one reason only: Khomeini-ac desires him in that position; even as he engineers the Republican Guard take over: coup!

Israel found letting the border with the terrorist stay open only resulted in the import of missiles that they then fire at Israeli civilian population. I understand your/terrorist point of view is no Jews anywhere in Israel and facts mean nothing to you only lies that you convince yourself of have meaning for you

That's a fascinating assessment, Jay. So if I disagree with the FACTS that Israel is a massive recipient of US aid, who then uses that aid to purchase weapons from the US, and then either insights violence on their neighbors or dramatically over reacts when they are attacked or threatened killing thousands of civilians, you assess that I share the same view as terrorists?

My policy is don't bite the hand that feeds. We give them aid, we tell them to stop building settlements or they lose the aid; it's that simple. What do we get out of it? I recognize Israel's right to exist as do I wish for a two state solution. But, as far as wise policy decisions go, I do not find it in the US's interest, nor mine, to continue to hand over money and weapons to a state that consistently acts out of line and will not make any concessions. No concessions, no money. Simple.

So please don't accuse me of somehow delivering a backhanded approach as to how we should ethnically cleanse Jews from Israel simply because you don't agree with what I am saying. I am speaking with respect to policy and how the United States is effected. As stands Israeli policy does not serve us, them, the Palestinians or the Middle East as a whole. Thus they either listen to our requests, or they no longer receive money.

The End.

The two state solution was implemented in 1922 by the mandate of the League of Nations. Yes Israel was legally being re-established long before Weapons Deal 11(aka World War 2).

All of the lands of the defunct Ottoman empire were made into countries following Turkeys loss in Weapons Deal 1 (aka world War 1) Iraq, Syria, Saudi, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon et al are all countries founded and established by the League of Nations. The Arabs rejected the two state solution of the League of Nations: trans Jordan and Israel, Just as the Arabs rejected the second partion: two state solution agreed/decreed by the legal authority of the United Nations which created Israel in 1948 in what amounts to a second partion; and instead the Arab countries invaded Israel and were defeated; the Arabs continue to this day that no Israel of any size in the mid-east is the only solution.

As to who has a legitimate claim to the land; the Jews say they were invaded and removed and never gave up their claim/deeds which date back to 2000 years before Islime came into existence in the 8th century. As for Palesteinians, no records of a non-Jewish people called Palesteinians exist in book or publication prior to 1969. There is certainly a stunning array of archeological findings to back the Jews claim to the land.

As to American interest: If the Moslems get rid of Israel they will not stop until they have gotten rid of the USA. As a Moslem, that suits you fine, as an American; I prefer free speech to criticize Islime; so it is my best interest to keep Israel around; because if G-d forbid Israel falls the Moslems will be relentless in their “destruction of free speech to criticize Islime”: America.

Yes I recognize some in the Islime community desire a third partion: divide Israel in two for the third time: as a piece plan: get rid of the Jews piece by piece by piece. And if your position is no Jews in parts of Jerusalem and surrounding areas then you do not want peace; you want a piece and no Jews anywhere around Islime just like no Christians in most of Arabia is tolerated today.

Those are the facts on the ground. The Arabs do not accept Israel’s right to exist. All this occupation and how dare Israel defend itself from 10 missiles a day from Gaza/Lebanon is psychobabble for no Jews in Israel.

I feel kind of silly even indulging such a cleary ignorant individual but for everyone else out there, I just want them to re-read what Jay wrote above this and just consider how blatantly racist it is and whether anything else written by such a person can be taken at all seriously.

Jay

You said: "As to American interest: If the Moslems get rid of Israel they will not stop until they have gotten rid of the USA. As a Moslem, that suits you fine, as an American; I prefer free speech to criticize Islime; so it is my best interest to keep Israel around; because if G-d forbid Israel falls the Moslems will be relentless in their “destruction of free speech to criticize Islime”: America."

Your xenophobic perceptions are quite disturbing my friend. I'm sorry but I have to ask if you're one of those guys that has a bumper sticker that claims that if we hadn't invaded Iraq "we'd all be speaking Arabic right now"?

But all jokes aside, I'm not a Muslim nor was I born in an Arabic country. Do you honestly believe that Israel will "fall" and then Muslims will come after America? To keep this rational, I'll just ask you how exactly they would be able to come after America. Will they swim here? Because I know how un-amazing every Muslim country's navy is. Will they hit us with nuclear weapons which are delivered by the ICBMs that they don't possess? Will they just imagine us away? And which Muslim countries are we speaking of here? The ones we deem as bad or all of them? Because I know that a lot of them we think are good, do some really bad things but it doesn't stop us from doing business with them (I'm looking at you Saudi Arabia).

If you honestly think that all Muslims are radicals you are sorely mistaken. People like Ahmedinejad don't represent the major voice of the people of Iran. It just represents rhetoric that they have always projected towards Israel and America to justify their actions. So what happens when America is not handing them money and weapons hand over fist? The point is set in stone: stop building settlements or stop receiving aid. If that makes us "no friend to Israel" then so be it! We have held hands with them, given them all they ask for, and endlessly provide cover for them when the Security Council condemns them. It's time for them to man up and change their ways before we change ours.

Yes, I am sure that when confronted with the fact that most people here find just about everything that you say to be completely wrong and ill considered, that your best response ought to be to deny their very existance, and this being the internet, there is really no way of proving you wrong.

However, it becomes dramatically harder for you to posit that the US state department, the entire Obama administration, the CIA, the UN, the Iraq study group, the 9/11 commission, Bill Clinton Jimmy Carter, Tony Blair, Bush senior, the drafters of the Geneva Convention, and virtually the governments of every single other nation on earth are actually all one person pretending to be many.

All of those mentioned above more or less agree about the illegitimacy of the settlements, agree that they needlessly inspire terror against the US and Israel while doing no good of any type, are illegal, and that they and the occupation that they necessitate need to go for good.

The idea that if Israel would stop settlements or even, G-d forbid, cease to exist and the followers of Islime would stop attacking us is provably false. Islime is at war on every front Islime bumps into another culture: South Georgia, India, Bosnia, Darfor, China, Philippines et al

As to who has a legitimate claim to the land; the Jews say they were invaded and removed and never gave up their claim/deeds which date back to 2000 years before Islime came into existence in the 8th century. As for Palesteinians, no records of a non-Jewish people called Palesteinians exist in book or publication prior to 1969. There is certainly a stunning array of archeological findings to back the Jews claim to the land.

As to American interest: If the Moslems get rid of Israel they will not stop until they have gotten rid of the USA. As a Moslem, that suits you fine; as an American; I prefer free speech to criticize Islime; so it is my best interest to keep Israel around; because if G-d forbid Israel falls the Moslems will be relentless in their “destruction of free speech to criticize Islime”: America. So Yes, thank G-d the USA is still selling systems so Israel can defend Israel’s/USA free speech to criticize Islime.

Yes I recognize some in the Islime community desire a third partition: divide Israel in two for the third time: as a piece plan: get rid of the Jews piece by piece by piece. And if your position is no Jews in parts of Jerusalem and surrounding areas then you do not want peace; you want a piece and no Jews anywhere around Islime just like no Christians in most of Arabia is tolerated today.

The Arabs/UnbalancedStew do not accept Israel’s right to exist. All this occupation and how dare Israel defend itself from 10 missiles a day from Gaza/Lebanon is psychobabble for no Jews in Israel.

n azi. i am not any of those people. how old are you jay? you never properly respond to people. your reponses can be summarised by : terrorist, muslim, God (or should i say G-d). you type way too much but they contains little meaning, they are not concise.

I am inviting other posters here to register complaints against Jay Getty for; cutting and Pasting the same responses multiple times to multiple posters, pointlessly and constantly hurling personal insults at anyone whose opinions he differs with, and referring to Islam in a derogatory and openly bigoted fashion.

He is dragging down an otherwise decent discourse with his obnoxious actions, which, I believe, are not allowed on this forum.

He WILL be removed for this if enough people complain.

your position is no Jews in parts of Jerusalem and surrounding areas then you do not want peace; you want a piece and no Jews anywhere around Islime just like no Christians in most of Arabia is tolerated today.

Those are the facts on the ground. The Arabs do not accept Israel’s right to exist. All this occupation and how dare Israel defend itself from 10 missiles a day from Gaza/Lebanon is psychobabble for no Jews in Israel.

There are rules for proper behavior here that you have violated. Spam, or the mindless and non responsive repeating of cut and paste diatribes are one thing you have done that is not acceptable. The only original thing you thing you often add to that is some insulting revision of the name of the poster whose opinion you disagree with. That is also unacceptable.

Finally, you are a bigot, who repeatedly refers to Islam in an offensive and derogatory manor. That is not acceptable either. It is no more acceptable to make slurs against the followers of Islam than it is Jewish people or the faith that they follow.

Maybe most annoying, is that you rely on these "tactics" to simply shut down discussion as opposed to bringing actual ideas or responses to others ideas to the table.

None of this has anything to do with free speech or rejection of ideas. There are people who support the settlers and occupation who ideologically and factually run circles around you, and I have no problem with them. Leave complex discussion like this to people who can engage in it without all of the inappropriate and transparent tactics.

Are the women of Islime allowed to leave their home not accompanied by a male family member? NO

Is it legal in Iran and Saudi and Afghanistan and Pakistan et al to kill a women who leaves her house not accompanied by a male family member? YES

Is it legal for women in those countries to get education to first grade much less to University? NO

Who is the 7th century bigot loser supporter: Unbalanced Stew: a writer of rubbish; tells his mommy that mean Jay Getty told the truth! and Unbalanced Stew could only call him names!

Tell your mammy to make Jay stop making a fool of Unbalanced Stew who only decribes himself in his posts. You keep posting the same rubbish, I keep pointing out your post are rubbish.

How dare JAY excercize freedom of speech to tell the truth, why we do not allow that either! Only unbalanced psychobabble should be allowed here!

Dialogue with the deaf/Dumb

Hi, I am not sure how to register a complaint. I am not happy about the way Jay getty repeats himself (see his first 7 replies) and his racism. I will be emailing the admin.

Yes, no free speech to criticize Islime; no Jews in Jerusalem; No education for women; No leaving the house without a male family member for women; yes your adjectives describe yourself exactly! I am sure being confronted with the errors of your ways is tough for you!
Dialogue with the deaf/dumb! Freeka1 says: :mama make Jay Getty stop telling the truth"!

REALITYCHiCKen: like dialogue w/ the failed frustrated leftist; Ross and company.

Assumes I forgot to inform Congress what a peace deal would look like!

I represent clarity on the issues: domestic and foreign. Nothing more/less

REALITYCHiCKen represents some frustrated failed ideology; can not admit the truth about his own failures to get a grip!

If REALITYCHiCKen apologizes for insulting me I will tell him what I told Congress a peace deal would look like; REALITYCHiCKen only looked for piece deals. Not that Congress is listening to any policy other than” lets have a nice long lasting war and sell lots of weapons”. C 1991

That’s right LONG WAR is my copyright 1991; on this war under the heading “Syrious Business”; and I delivered it to every member of congress in 1991; exact battle tactics they would use and why and how to avoid it; same as how to win it now.

Thats right; delivered that exact message to every member of congress in 1989;

REALITYCHiCKen/like Ross and company were so taken with there position they forgot about reality; kind of like a prostitute: just caught up in the moment of excitement; no thoughts of the implications of there actions and no understanding of the unintended consequences!

thanks for your intelligent counter point. it is always interesting to discuss with an intelligent equal, with an opposing view, to learn more about how two smart guys come to different opinions.
***firstly, you make a good point, about other countries having human rights issues. israel is not alone in this point, and you are fair to say israel attracts more heat than others.
-i would like to point out, these countries crack down on their own people, whereas israel is doing it to others.
-secondly, palestine has been occupied since 1967 (or 1948, whatever), so this has gone on for at least 40 years. this "oppression" (in our view) makes it unique in that it keeps on going.
-thirdly, and the most important, is that none of these countries receive as much support as israel from the us. ur right in one regard: other countries should also be critizised. however you fail to acknowledge that israel should receive the same support (which is less). i need not mention the vetos in the UN, support from hollywood/media, being the largest aid recipient, having the president/speaker/vice pres attend AIPAC meetings, intel sharing.

***secondly, you mention how israel has made land sacrifices for peace. i agree with the intention, however i have to disgree with the amount. ALL land in the WB and gaza should be given. i say all, because isnt it fair? whats a fair amount? WB and gaza used to belong to egypt and jordan anyway... both sides will have enough land to live on.
as a counter, while israel gives land, it is also taking it via settlements. And dont forget the thousands of check points, roads being built for settlements, water diverted for settlements. this makes life tough... your giving a farmer his land, but making it tough to live a normal life.
a year without mass murder? how about the past year? rockets being fired from gaza, from militant groups affiliated to fatah (ur allies) are at 2 a day, from 100s a day. a 98% drop. in comparison, how much has the blockade of gaza been reduced? 0%. do you believe if there was a complete year without any deaths, that the blockade/checkpoints/settlements would be removed? they serve a strategic/political purpose, that is not related to attacts.

***my suggestion, all israelis out of gaza (done) and WB, lifting the blockade, and a border enforced by the international community. however, it is ISRAEL which has blocked this idea, because it would then have to acknowledge a border, and alot of people dream that the border goes up to jordan.

***reason this will fail: israel has more to gain from conflict. aid, support from the us. crushing a potential future enemy. votes from settlers/avoiding internal conflict. look at gaza: 2 rockets a day (which cause potholes) while they crush gaza economically and militarily.
***threat to israel: demographics. arabs breed faster than jewish people. 20%+ of people in israel are palestinian. in about 15 years, there will be more palestinians in greater palestine/israel than jews. the longer you wait to settle the border and leave, the harder it will be. for israel wont be able to remain jewish and a democracy (1 vote 1 person) if there are too many palestinians.

i would love to email with you, you seem intelligent. actually my best friends were jewish in high school. some have gone to kibutz right now. and i have had such a bad experience with lebanese/arabs. the jewish people are very inspiring (intelligent, cunning, rich, loyal). but i believe in integrity, and saying what i feel is right, even if my friends disagree.

its a shame i cant message you my email, i dont want that crazy gay jet spamming me.

oh and my previous account got banned, go figure, while gay jet hasn't been. i've got theories why, im sure u do too.

Let me address this point by point.
-First, my understanding is that the vast, vast majority of human-rights complaints coming about Israel have their source in either unsubstantiated reports from organizations whose members are, to say the very last, circumspect in their goals, and ostensible in their bias.
The prime complaint against Israel in the last Gaza War seems to have been that there was a disparate death-toll. This is based on several misleading bits of information, but what I find to be most unsettling and damning is that the UN Report bases all its death information of Hamas sources. These same Hamas sources (an international terrorist organization for a reason) claim that almost no Hamas soldiers were killed. This seems highly unlikely. It is also widely known (due to clear photographic evidence) that Hamas was purposely placing their soldiers in heavily populated civilian centers, hospitals, and mosques (fact) in order to cause as many civilian casualties as possible (speculation, but reasonable).

-Palestine is a made up term for a disparate group of peoples who had no national identity until it was forced upon them. The term occupation is a misnomer. It implies that there was somewhere a "Palestinian" nation which preceded the creation of the State of Israel by U.N. mandate in 1948, a group of people who strongly and for good reason resented the "occupying body" known as the Jews. This is false. Jews have maintained a constant presence, verified by archeology and historical record, for nearly 3500 years with little to no conflict with their neighbors, other than the occasionally massacres against the small Jewish communities perpetrated by local Arabs under the influence of loud demagogues. The U.N. mandate contained provisions for the establishment of a separate, Arab state, one which was more than acceptable to the Jewish residents; unfortunately, it was rejected by the local arabs under pressure from the surrounding regimes, and forced 3 major wars, all of which Israel won. The "Palestinians" were nonetheless still afforded all the basic rights granted to any human being, i.e. the rights to vote, own land, hold public office, etc, despite the fact that a minority of their population had constantly proven their utter unworthiness of these rights by mass-murdering their Jewish neighbors. Still, any who wanted to be part of Israel were welcome, and in fact, so were many who did not, such as famous Knesset member Dr. al-Tibi who actively campaigns for Israel's eradication.

-Why should the "palestinians" be granted the entire wb and gaza as a seperate entity, one which would 100% be "jew-free", when they are welcome to live in the nation of Israel, which accepts them as fellow citizens by law. What great crime do the settlers commit by living in a land this is 95% unsettled and in which they have more historical claim to than any nation on earth has to their own land?

-Why shouldn't America and its government be friendly to the only free nation in the middle east, a region population primarily by America's enemies (and to preempt you, no they are not only enemies because of America's support of Israel, they are enemies due to deep driven ideological and political differences that the sweeping of Israel into the sea cannot possible assuage).

-The check-points have stopped thousands of terrorist attacks, and this is clearly documented. They open up check points as the security situations change, but it would be suicide to do so unless certain that there would be no more need to maintain them.

-Two missiles a day verse hundreds only looks good on paper, and it is idiocy to focus on their effect in terms of lives and ignore the psychological effect of being bombarded in your home every single day by people who, if they only possessed the technology, would be most certain to effect a hit with ever rocket fired. The blockades serve no ulterior purpose. You look for malicious intent on the part of Israel without considering the clear malicious intent of Hamas. The VAST majority of Israeli's would leap at the prospect of a sustainable border that would not allow for the growth in power of those who not only refuse to acknowledge their existence, but ostensibly support their utter destruction. What is this mysterious political purpose you speak of that would cause Israel to refuse to accept a two-state solution, other than the demand that they have a viable partner in peace negotiations who can actually ensure that they stay secure.

-The reality is that settlers are a rather small voting bloc. Israel would gain immeasurably from establishing a true peace; this would be true economically, morally, diplomatically, and politically. The only ones who have anything to gain from the conflict are the power-hunger demagogues and fanatics we know as Hamas. Even the demographic issue is falsely presented, as while Palestinians do breed faster than the average secular Israel, the Orthodox breed faster still.

My conclusion, and I think it a well-founded one, is that there will not be peace until the palestinian people successfully eradicate the hate-mongers and demagogues that have been nothing but a cancer on their society. It is these power hunger demagogues who failed the people in 1948 by forcing the population into a horrifically misguided war, and it is these fools who have failed them since at every peace dialogue by refusing any deal offered to them, even the most generous (see Arafat at the Camp David talks in the late 90's. He was offered 97% of the land he requested, and refused it, in order to maintain his own relevance). Yet I find it hard to imagine that a group which has been indoctrinated from children to hate the Jew and venerate that hatred could possibly kill this cancer themselves. On the other hand, it is impossible for the Israeli's to do it for them without perpetuating the resentment and hatred. My prognosis? Let me be blunt; I have no freaking idea. Every possibility is dependent on completely independent variables. Until then, Israel must protect its citizens, and will continue to do so, regardless of what its detractors think. They owe their citizens no less.

It is not really necessary to delve into the fine details in order to determine whether the Israelis are acting with malice and using techniques like collective punishment or not; They are. Simply look at the big picture, and you will find that it more than adequately tells the story.

In the recent Gaza Incursion, the big statistics are damning. since 2001, 13 Israelis have died as the result of rocket attacks. What you fail to see against that first statistic is that even BEFORE Cast lead, hundreds of innocent Palestinians had died at the hands of the IDF as they ran their raids and from Israeli shelling.

THEN in cast lead alone, 1400 people were kill in Gaza, and almost 1/3 of them were children.

Assuming that the vast majority of children were innocent, what is the statistical probability that there was such a Stunningly high number of innocent children killed, but that ALL adults were in fact guilty of something other than simply being unfortunate enough to live ion Gaza? The probabilities suggest that it is IMPOSSIBLE for that to be the case. In fact, it suggests with almost total certainty that the number of innocents kill was far more than half of that number.