Obama's Indecent Interval

Despite the U.S. president's pleas to the contrary, the war in Afghanistan looks more like Vietnam than ever.

BY THOMAS H. JOHNSON, M. CHRIS MASON | DECEMBER 10, 2009

As German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer once said, truth is ridiculed, then denied, and then "accepted as having been obvious to everyone from the beginning." So let's start with the obvious: There isn't the slightest possibility that the course laid out by Barack Obama in his Dec. 1 speech will halt or even slow the downward spiral toward defeat in Afghanistan. None. The U.S. president and his advisors labored for three months and brought forth old wine in bigger bottles. The speech contained not one single new idea or approach, nor offered any hint of new thinking about a conflict that everyone now agrees the United States is losing. Instead, the administration deliberated for 94 days to deliver essentially "more men, more money, try harder." It sounded ominously similar to Mikhail Gorbachev's "bloody wound" speech that led to a similar-sized, temporary Soviet troop surge in Afghanistan in 1986.

But the Soviet experience in Afghanistan isn't what everyone is comparing Obama's current predicament to; it's Vietnam. The president knows it, and part of his speech was a rebuttal of those comparisons. It was a valiant effort, but to no avail. Afghanistan is Vietnam all over again.

In his speech, the president offered three reasons why the two conflicts are different. And all are dead wrong. First, Obama noted that Afghanistan is being conducted by a "coalition" of 43 countries -- as if war by committee would magically change the outcome (a throwback to former President George W. Bush's "Iraq coalition" mathematics). The truth is, outside of a handful of countries, it's basically a coalition of pacifists. In fact, more foreign troops fought alongside the United States in Vietnam than are now actually fighting with Americans today. Only nine countries in today's 43-country coalition have more than 1,000 personnel there; nine others have 10 (yes, not even a dozen people) -- or fewer. And although Australia and New Zealand have sent a handful of excellent special operations troops to Afghanistan, only Britain, Canada, and France are providing significant forces willing to conduct conventional offensive military operations. That brings the coalition's combat-troop contribution to approximately 17,000. Most of the other 38 "partners" have strict rules prohibiting them from ever doing anything actually dangerous. Turkish troops, for example, never leave their firebase in Wardak province, according to U.S. personnel who monitor it.

In Vietnam, by contrast, there were six countries fighting with the United States. South Korea alone had three times more combat troops in that country (50,000) than the entire coalition has in Afghanistan today. The Philippines (10,500), Australia (7,600), New Zealand (500), Thailand (about 1,000), and Taiwan also had boots on the ground. So the idea that Afghanistan's coalition sets it apart doesn't hold water.

The president went on to assert that the Taliban are not popular in Afghanistan, whereas the Viet Cong represented a broadly popular nationalist movement with the support of a majority of the Vietnamese. But this is also wrong. Neither the Viet Cong then, nor the Taliban now, have ever enjoyed the popular support of more than 15 percent of the population, according to Daniel Ellsberg, the senior Pentagon official who courageously leaked the Pentagon Papers revealing the military's endemic deceit in the Vietnam War.

Justin Sullivan/Getty Images

 

Thomas H. Johnson is research professor of the Department in National Security Affairs and director of the Program for Culture and Conflict Studies at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, Calif.

M. Chris Mason, a retired Foreign Service officer who served in 2005 as political officer for the provincial reconstruction team in Paktika, is senior fellow at the Program for Culture and Conflict Studies and at the Center for Advanced Defense Studies in Washington.

NORMAN ROGERS

10:19 PM ET

December 10, 2009

You're forgetting who is running this war

The Petraeus/McChrystal method of fighting this war will make 2010 a quiet enough year in Afghanistan to easily refute your opinions.

First, there will be truckloads of cash spread about, and it will fall in the hands of people who will talk to their dumb little buddies about how "we're taking the year off" from fighting the Americans. This will buy loyalty, temporarily, and ease the attacks on coalition forces.

Second, there will be a change in the rules of engagement, and U.S. forces will not be out front practicing "COIN" because they will be moved to larger bases and will not patrol as much, nor will they use the roads as much, because that would increase casualties.

Third, all Petraeus and McChrystal have to do is not lose the media war (they're not going to try to do COIN with National Guard troops), and that means they have to eliminate as much of the violence as possible AND reduce American casualties. Never mind that what constitutes an attack today will suddenly not be a data point or a recorded event next year--they control the metrics, they control the numbers, and they will show progress.

Now, I could very well be wrong, but that's what I think will happen next year. Afghanistan will quiet down, everyone will take the year off and regroup, and then, when the media have lost interest and the public attention is focused elsewhere, we will quietly withdraw, stop paying people to not attack us, and the real sorting out of who will run Afghanistan will happen as we roll out of town.

Your theories presuppose that everything will continue as is; American money is going to buy us a year off and everyone will simply sit on their hands and wait for the drawdown to start. Just as the American people are getting ready to pick a new President, this President can trot out his new National Security Adviser (Petraeus) and his new Chairman of the Joint Chiefs (McChrystal) and we can have medals for everyone.

 

GOEDEL

11:18 PM ET

December 10, 2009

Johnson and Mason: a clear analysis; Rogers neglects fervor.

The future for Pres Obama is a return to Chicago in 2013, much like LBJ's to Texas in 1969.

The Rogers-critique seems to neglect the motivation of the Taliban and of other insurgents in Af. The Taliban is a religiously committed group. They want the westerners (us) out. They are not for sale, in my view. That is also true of many others among the insurgents. They should not be confused with the relatives of Hamid Karzai, as I think Mr Rogers does.

Remember, too, that LBJ tried to buy off Ho Chi Minh with promises of extensive aid programs were he only to cease supporting the Viet Cong and make a deal. What Johnson never understood was that he was dealing with a nationalist, a man who wanted the foreigners out, just as do the insurgents in Af.

 

NORMAN ROGERS

6:17 AM ET

December 11, 2009

Are you forgetting the fact

that the Taliban pay BETTER than the Afghan Army? Are you forgetting that there is a world wide heroin trade that finances the Taliban efforts right now?

All we have to do is pay slightly better than the Taliban.

It would seem to me that if there really was a religious commitment, everyone would fight for free. In Afghanistan, that's not the case. In the year ahead, I would be willing to bet that the money will flow to those who can influence a number of fighters to stay home or work with American interests. The nationalistic fervor is there, and it makes the Taliban a broad based insurgency, but it has to use money to finance operations. Once we can bring more money to bear, we will see fewer attacks.

 

GOEDEL

10:59 AM ET

December 11, 2009

We are trying to buy them off.

We now pay Taliban for not striking some of our supply convoys. Unquestionably, money talks. You claim it talks more loudly than anything else, and that's where you are wrong in my view - just as wrong as was LBJ.

 

NORMAN ROGERS

12:05 PM ET

December 11, 2009

Sorry, but

Petraeus and McChrystal have read that playbook, and they know how to apply money to stop an insurgency. Their track record is better than LBJ's.

There are far too few hardcore Taliban to make any gains in Afghanistan--that's why they need to use narco-trafficking money to buy their own homegrown mercenaries to carry out attacks. There is a nationalistic fervor, but there's also crippling poverty. What we're going to do next year is going to buy us time to withdraw, just as it bought us time to find an out in Iraq.

No one's talking about an LBJ-styled overarching plan to win everything. I'm talking about an 18 month strategy for reducing the attacks on US forces, getting Afghanistan off the front page, and getting us out on a pre-approved timeline that helps re-elect President Obama. Of course there's no way they could possibly win everything--these men are too smart to believe that nonsense. But they know how to apply the lessons learned in Iraq to the problem of getting us out of Afghanistan.

 

BULLWHACKER

12:16 PM ET

December 11, 2009

Ho Chi Minh..

was a Marxist first. Schooled by Stalin at the "toiler's School" in Moscow, he was then sent to China to foment communist revolution in Indochina, undercover as Borodin's interpreter. Wanted by the French Surete, Ho was forced to stay in China, for decades. He sent his communist cadres south to foment unrest and execute any potential adversaries. This meant all serious nationalists. His first revolution, in 1938, failed. He would only come to power in 1945-46 with the help of the OSS, under Archimedes Patti's Deer Team, and by fooling the Emporer into believing Ho had the full backing of President Truman. In the ensuing years Ho's govmt terrorized the countryside, killing or starving 2.5 million, and most "nationalist" opponents. The formation of the Viet Cong in the south was wholly owned by Uncle Ho in the north.

 

GOEDEL

8:37 PM ET

December 11, 2009

To Rogers and Bullwhacker

LBJ never had an "over-arching plan" in Vietnam. Grotesquely, he never had any plan at all; just as is the case with President Small-Change. His fervent dream was to get out of Vietnam in a manner that would protect his adminstration from the rabid-right who were still seething because we lost something we never owned, China. I gather that President Yes-We-Can is seeking a similar exit, but who knows? It's hard to know what that narcissist wants (talk about Slick-Willy!) except self-glorification. You like generals? You put your faith in their ability to buy off the enemy. I thought generals were fighters not bribers.

On Ho Chi Minh and the bad things he and other did in Vietnam and in southeast Asia: We, Americans have no responsibility for the misdeeds, crimes of others. We have responsibility for our own crimes in other lands. Too often the intention to do good is really an excuse for doing bad. In regard to bad guys, such as Saddam, Taliban et al., my principle is the one that guides medicine since Hypocrates: First do no harm! How much harm we have done using the excuse of the Cold War! We killed millions. We assisted or instigated the killing of hundreds of thousands in Latin America alone. How much harm we have done in with our sanctions and our warring in Iraq TO PUNISH THEN TO REMOVE A MAN WE FIRST ABETTED (Saddam!) How much harm we are doing in Afghanistan TO PUNISH AND REMOVE INSURGENTS WE SUPPORTED (Mujahadin!)

Our first President, George Washington, is our best model for the times: don't meddle in foreign countries, he adviised. Lead other nations by your example of good government, he advised. Keep your treaties with other nations, and extend the possibility of good relations with all. He was our only general to make a good president, and he was a great one. Don't think because he presided so long ago that his wisdom no longer applies. It's just that we are too stupid to appreciate it.

 

MARIO HERRERA

1:18 AM ET

December 11, 2009

USA citizen tortured in Denmark.

I am convinced that this war is going to be lost, for the following reason. If Barack Obama that is my president conspiracy to silence that I have been tortured in Denmark, just to cover some political interests. I am feeling really sorry for all those USA soldiers that are spending their life in the hands of a person that got not experience, got not decision and eventually like me, will be abandon in the middle of nowhere just for political conveniences. My name is Mario Herrera, American citizen, with Cuban backgroung from Hialeah, Florida and because two racist Danish police look me like an Arabic person, they brutalized me. The USA embassy in Copenhagen, USA State Department, FBI and actually president Barack Obama in total silence. You can listen audio conversations with the FBI officer in Copenhagen and USA State Department officer, at www.norightsforyou.com and www.twitter.com/NoRightsForYou Help to speak out. By the way, Obama Nobel Prize, it is the equivalent to the invincible Emperator's cloths.

 

JBHIKER

11:25 AM ET

December 11, 2009

Put the focus on Afghanistan

I heard the President (before he was elected) say he would change the focus to Afghanistan and away from Iraq. So now he has done exactly what he said he would do. I think his problem now is an Army leadership that really does not want to win but rather would prefer containment. I don't think there is a win in Afghanistan, not as long as Muslims are unwilling to become world citizens. Islam is a racist and fascist nationalism much like the Nationalism of Germany was before WW2. I think the Armed Forces know this. And maybe I do, too. These people have no desire to become citizens of the world. If we could trust them to stay out of our business, wouldn't that be great? But we cannot. The Mullahs will not actively denounce the Taliban ideology.

To a Muslim, secularism is the same as Atheism. The 5 Americans in custody in Pakistan are proof enough to me that this is a War against beliefs and there is no hope of the world getting back to normal in my lifetime. Just like in the Crusades, we have to adopt tactics that will cause these people to grow weary of war. These men have to die for there to be peace and it must be done by men who are not afraid of History's judgment. But I am afraid Greed will prevail and you cannot blame Obama for that. What we need to declare is a War against Greed and Selfishness. That is where the real battles should be. All suffering in history can be traced back to greed and selfishness.

 

BULLWHACKER

11:31 AM ET

December 11, 2009

Comparisons...

to Vietnam are not serious unless or until the cut off of all military aid is weighed. This is when Nam was lost. Period. This is Obama's Afghan strategy. But first, you need a villain. Obama and Carville have chosen Karzai. Karzai as "villain" started with Carville advising his opponent. That opponent dropped out when Obama/Carville realized demonizing Karzai was a better strategy for withdrawal, but only if Karzai remained in power.

As for Karzai's kleptocracy, show me. The left made tremendous gains from Madame Nhu's insane behavior and I believe claims of Karzai's corruption are greatly exaggerated. Just another of Alinsky's rules applied to foreign policy ("...isolate the individual, freeze it...") In Nam there were a succession of individuals to isolate, from Diem to President Thu. In this regard, it is Nam all over again.

 

THE SMARTEST PERSON EVER

11:52 AM ET

December 11, 2009

This is an inaccurate comparison...

Of course O'Bama knows that his plan will probably fail. However this isn't a reflection of the the soundness of the plan - it's an indication that ANY plan will probably fail.

He's between a rock and a hard place though. What are his alternatives? He can't just withdraw - doing so would disgrace him, the Democrats, and the US and would also make all our efforts there an exercise in futility. Sure, that might happen anyway but he can't allow it to be because America gave up so he's compelled to save face by sticking with the war.

But that wouldn't be the worst consequence. The real danger of failure is that we go back to square one and the bad guys go back to business-as-usual so he needs to persue the original intent of the war and make America safe by making Afghanistan strong, stable, and friendly in order to prevent the bad guys from moving in again.

The president wasn't saying that the Afghanistan-based attacks make the war morally just (as compared to Vietnam), he was saying that it made the war necessary.

 

BULLWHACKER

12:51 PM ET

December 11, 2009

The plan...

is to make you hate Karzai so much you'll want our troops out. One more year of villification ought to do the trick. Everyone wonders why Obama can't quite bring himself to villify the Taliban or even mention Jihad. Doesn't fit the withdrawal template. He won't want you taking you eyes off of the evil Karzai. Just like the public was fed-up with the corrupt South Vietnamese govmt when congress cut off all military aid. Just sit back and watch. Just like Vietnam and Cambodia, the Taliban will regain power and execute our former allies. Unlike Vietnam, the Taliban will welcome terrorist training camps that export terror, once again. But what the hell? At least we'll have health care most Americans don't want, just like LBJ got his War on Poverty or Great Society programs. Same song, second verse: the redistribution of wealth.

 

BLEEBO

12:16 PM ET

December 11, 2009

Obama is the most intelligent?

"Obama is one of the most intelligent men ever to hold the U.S. presidency." If so, why does he refuse to release his college grades or SAT score? Such a absolute statement certainly needs more proof. I suspect that the IQ scores of both Obama and Biden combined would fail to equal that of Thomas Jefferson.

 

BULLWHACKER

12:55 PM ET

December 11, 2009

I'll second that motion.

I'll second that motion.

 

THE SMARTEST PERSON EVER

9:34 AM ET

December 14, 2009

Or maybe...

...he doesn't have to expose every record that has ever documented his life. He's the goll-durn president and you think he needs to submit to your demanding to see what he got in college?
First, who cares anyway?
Second, sure this is supposed to be 'by the people', but who do you think you are?
Last, is there anything that doesn't rile your paranoia ridden conspiracy addled brains?

 

YANKEELIBERTY

11:24 AM ET

December 17, 2009

Intelligent President

I'm not aware that any correlation has been established between the "intelligence" of the President and the success of the Presidency, much less that of the nation during said Presidency.

If such a correlation is found, it is likely to be an inverse one. Obama's kind of "intelligence" becomes mired in complexity and falls victim to overconfidence.

 

RIPPER23TW

5:30 AM ET

January 7, 2010

maybe...

Ahaha...that maybe true lol

 

SCHAFERBR8387

3:02 PM ET

December 11, 2009

Exit Strategy or Election Strategy?

After the Normandy Invasion, did Roosevelt tell the American people, "well, we'll give it a shot for 18 months and if things are going well, we're outta here."

How can you ask our military to fight and die, if defeat is an option?

If defeat's an option, then withdraw NOW. If Afghanistan is not worth dying for in 18 months, it's not worth it today either. I can't believe the American people elected a man this inexperienced and this unqualified as CIC. It's going to get good Americans killed.

 

ITONLYSTANDSTOREASON

6:06 PM ET

December 12, 2009

Exit Strategy

How many months after D-day did the Germans surrender? June 6 1944 to May 8 1945?

Roosevelt didn't have to put a limit on it because we had the men and material - and of course the task was to defeat an enemy government, not build up an allied one.

We've spent 8 years in Afghanistan using the tactics that failed in Vietnam; finally McChrystal and Petraeus are ready to go with the tactics that did much to secure the countryside. (After we withdrew, the North switched strategy from insurgency to invasion - flexibility is key.)

The fatal flaw was the South Vietnamese government's corruption and weakness. We've got a governmental problem in Afghanistan too, and the White House and general recognize it. The purpose of the 18 month timeline is to remind Karzai that he's got to take part in defending his government, and to tell the people that our occupation is not forever, which would fuel widespread opposition and non-Taliban insurgencies.

If you think the timeline was a premature announcement of a future surrender, you haven't been following Obama. (I suspect you're one of the critics who was charging him with not supporting his generals a month ago.) Defying the left-wing base, he is doing what he said he'd do in the campaign: making a commitment to success in Afghanistan. I don't think he's going to change his mind in a year, or in two. It would have been the easiest thing for him to apologize in Stockholm for sending more troops, but he defended his decision and the role of the US in providing for global security for the past half-century. You might start to listen more closely, and to follow the nuances. Anyone capable of seeing black and white could follow Cheney; you can't fit Obama into that box without lossing half of the picture. (To go for a cheap shot, he's not black or white, he's both at the same time and hence neither.)

We wish it were simple, that an all-in/all-out strategy would suffice. It isn't simple, so we're walking a damn tightrope. Obama knows it, and hopefully you will come to see it too.

 

VICENTEDUQ

3:03 PM ET

December 11, 2009

What a wonderful article Mr Johnson and Mr Mason

I agree 100% - I have been dedicated to the study of these Two Wars : Afghanistan and Iraq and have read hundreds of articles. You are right !

I have been talking of the DeWesternization of Islam after the Suez Canal Episode of 1956 to 1957. Afghanistan and Iraq are part of that Historical Process of DeWesternization, no matter how many Coca Colas each arab drinks per day. No matter how many Burgher Kings or McDonald's in the lands of Minarets calling to prayer.

Many of the articles in the written press fail because they wrongly assume Great Love and Loyalty for America in the theaters of War. But nobody knows for sure what people think. Polls are useless and Love doesn't guarantee Loyalty.

You can love and admire the Americans but want them out of your land as soon as possible.

The British celebrating Queen Victoria's Jubilee in 1897 never thought that the next two generations would see the Fall of the British Empire.

The Future of Foreign Policies :

http://prophesizing.blogspot.com

Vicente Duque

 

NORM

3:37 PM ET

December 11, 2009

Obama's Indecent Interval

So you are saying that Obama is cynically sacrificing American lives in a cause that he knows to be false to facilitate his reelection? What kind of rotten bastard would do something like that?

 

RABBELAY

4:12 PM ET

December 11, 2009

Schopenhauer and truth

That opening line by Schopenhauer was perfect.

But, please, the point of stopping this war is not to admit loss, to avoid another Vietnam or failure...it is to stop the senseless and illegal slaughter and the waste of resources.

If the USA based more of its policy on positive, workable, honest principles, trying to improve peoples lives in these regions, then, obviously, we'd see improvement in the strategic situation as well.

 

SCHAFERBR8387

4:55 PM ET

December 11, 2009

Yeah Right

RABBELAY

The American people have sent billions of dollars to the Afganis and thousands of committed individuals who sacrificed their lives, money and time to try to help these people.

What we get in return is that they torture then slaughter our people, our troops and use the money to buy weapons.

What that part of the world needs is the cleansing affect of a large, nuclear weapon. These miserable bunch of people want to see Allah so badly, let's send them there today. It's a win-win.

 

ITONLYSTANDSTOREASON

7:40 AM ET

December 12, 2009

Wrong

It's a shallow analysis tjat looks only at the negatives. I'm not going to waste my time on an extensive refutation in front of this crowd, however, I'm merely going to point to the persistent rumors that Petraeus has a political career in mind; you don't run for office on the basis of failure (unless you're Carly Florino), and that the conventional wisdom was against Petraeus in Iraq, also.

No, it won't look like VE day, and yes, we'll have a smaller group of troops there for 10 years, but the Taliban is not taking over in the next 7 years. And I'm willing to take bets on it.

 

VICENTEDUQ

1:03 PM ET

December 12, 2009

Your second paragrah may be right - but isn't that losing ?

You may be right in your consideration that American Troops can stay indefinitely, and prevent the Afghan Rebels from taking over.

But they are not going to erradicate all opposition and the Afghan Rebellion.

That is a way of losing and humiliation. That is a form of defeat. Imagine what World Opinion thinks of an Eternal Stalemate.

If America can't dominate one of the Poorest, most Backward and most Illiterate countries. Then what can America do ??

When Russia invaded Georgia. America did nothing ! .... Just empty words. That shows how these conflicts : Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan are weakening the USA. Slowly like Radioactive Decay.

That is why the article of Johnson and Mason is a cherished treasure for me. And I will continue looking for everything that they write.

http://prophesizing.blogspot.com

Vicente Duque

 

ITONLYSTANDSTOREASON

5:43 PM ET

December 12, 2009

Perspective

Re: Georgia. What did the US do when Russia put down uprisings in Hungary and Checkoslovakia?

Re: Residual Forces, who long have we had troops in South Korea?

Peace isn't something that is accomplished once and for all - it requires effort and maintenance.

There were terrorists cells in Greece, Germany, Italy for many years. Where they ever really defeated? Whatever, the governments survived.

Your concern does you credit, but take heart, man. You can find reasons for gloom and doom if you look for them, but balance them out with the positive signs:

Al Qaeda has less than 100 in Afghanistan; the Taliban around 20,000.

If the Afghan Army is mostly Tajik, the Taliban is mostly Pushtun, and Pushtun are about 40% of the population, concentrated in a few provinces. Local militia forces with some national support can control them elsewhere, so a majority of the country can be secured with a little effort.

The Pushtun are an ethnic group, not a nation. They are not naturally united; there are tribes and villages with their own leaders who would not welcome coming under the control of a national government with leaders who practive a fairly harsh form of Islam and wish to impose it on others. They've been down that road before.

And contra our dismal author's statements, the Taliban are not all Taliban. There is the hardcore leadership, and there are those whose alliance is moveable, influenced by fear, opportunity, income.

As for the feckless Afghan security forces, Petraeus has been down this road before. Remember Iraq in 2006 The police were partisan militias and the army couldn't fight. Our dismal authors concentrate on the number who leave. But to build an army, you depend on the ones who stay, and if you have to cycle through 100,000 enlistees to find 20,000 who are fighters, you're still 20,000 ahead.

Vietnam: the authors do a fair job of rebutting Obama's talking points, but fail to make their case. In Vietnam, the insurgents had the state of North Vietnam and aid from Russia behind them. In Afghanistan, the Taliban don't control a state and any assistance they get from Pakistan has to be discrete and limited. In Vietnam, there were no effective power centers to oppose the Viet Minh outside of the national government; in Afghanistan there are many. As for national interest, the world was much less globalized in the 1960s - it would have been very hard for anyone from Vietnam to inflict damage in US territory. These days, people, goods, capital, and ideas travel farther and faster - it is becoming more dangerous to think that events in remote Afghanistan are isolated from what happens here at home.

If you really want to know the state of war in Afghanistan, go the the Small Wars Journal website. The people who contribute are often people on the front lines, people who have skin in the game.

So buck up - things are difficult, but not irretrievably so.

 

RKERG

1:25 PM ET

December 12, 2009

So you have a better plan?

While many Obama bashers are making a living by attacking every thing he does and making up things that he didn't do, this comparison of Afghanistan
to Vietnam is absurd. Al Quaeda and the Taliban do not have the numbers of the North Vietnam army and there are no jungles in Afghanistan
to hide in. If the bad boys want to fight they will have to travel out in the open and our drones will see them. Also, unlike Vietnam, there will be no gradual build up. This little surge will put the bad guys back on their heels long enough to give the Afghans a chance to run their own country. What they do with it is up to them, and, no, since I am not a neo con, I am not going to tell you that Afghanistan is going to be transformed into a great shining beacon of democracy for others in the region to emulate. What it is going to be is on its own with a chance to succeed.

 

NUANCE

7:23 PM ET

December 12, 2009

Decisions matter, but execution is the key

AfPak is a hornet's nest whichever way you stir it, but I don't believe that President Obama's decision is based on any kind of cynical calculation. The analogy with Vietnam isn't sensible either. It's more insightful to understand what we are dealing with in this situation. We made a mistake from day one after 9/11 in not being decisive in taking out the Taliban, terminating the Al Qaeda leadership, and putting Pakistan on notice. Wars, if they must be fought, should be carried out with speed and decisiveness. Now, here we are in a situation where a well-funded and well-armed Taliban seeks to regain control over Afghanistan, Al Qaeda wishes to establish a caliphate reaching out from Afghanistan, and for Pakistan, it makes sense to humor the US, suckers that we are, while backing the Taliban as its proxy in Afghanistan. There is no question that this has to be confronted, both militarily and politically, but it will take a much more creative coalition and much tougher blend of hard and soft power.

 

BOBINNM

8:36 PM ET

December 12, 2009

Are these people really a threat to us?

The conversation on this subject is really worth reading. Great point-counterpoints. I'm retired military, anytime my brothers in arms are in harms way, I must question. Are they defending America or are they sacrificing for a political whim? NUANCE-hit the nail between the eyes.

The Taliban really are not a threat, they simply liked being in power and really only want that again. Their perversion of Islam makes sense to them and anything else is not worth talking about. They know Karzi for what he is, a corrupt policial hack propped up by 60,000 American, British and French troops. If we leave, it will be just like after the Russians left. A power vaccum will exist and need filling. Enter the Taliban again.

To keep this short, in the final analysis, backing off Muslim power struggles is the best way out of this. Let them kill each other and one day God will be sorting out the winners from the losers. This struggle with in Islam has been going on since Mohammad diddled his first 9 year old wife.

American lives are not worth keeping Karzi in power or defending a people who really only need to know where their next meal is coming from and will they be able to keep warm this winter. We need those combat hardened troops back here on our borders. The threat is from the south and not a few religious perverts. They are going to do what they want to do, us being there just gives them an excuse to kill innocent Afgans and the cream of our country.

 

DEPAULCONSIGLIO

7:53 PM ET

December 15, 2009

Mr Obama and Afghanistan

Where also is the lesson to be learned from Russia's loss of 40,000 good soldiers in the same Afghanistan over a period of 20 years?
Never learned.

 

AFPAK2011

7:27 PM ET

December 23, 2009

So what exactly would Messrs. Johnson and Masson suggest?

The authors start their argument: "The speech contained not one single new idea or approach, nor offered any hint of new thinking about a conflict that everyone now agrees the United States is losing."

The same could be said for their article.

Johnson and Mason spend much intellectual energy comparing Afghanistan to Vietnam, as if somehow making that link will disprove Obama's strategy. Focusing on potential similarities to past conflicts is intellectual belly-gazing that doesn't tell us anything about what the U.S. needs to do to extract ourselves from a mess that Obama did not get us into. They both seem more interested in scoring cheap and meaningless political points than using their intellect to offer useful suggestions on the best way forward. Why else would they spend the bulk of their article trying to associate our President with a past conflict instead of offering even a single suggestion about what they would do in his place?

So if they are so disdainful of the President's approach, what would they do? Withdraw all of our troops now, leaving Baluchistan and the Waziristans a safe haven for AQ and the more zealous Pakistani Taliban factions to plan another 9/11? Or double down and commit even more troops and money to a conflict that is barely supported by the U.S. public? And if so, where exactly are those troops and money going to come from?

I also am a bit surprised at the laziness of some of Johnson and Mason's assertions. Here are a few examples:

"President Hamid Karzai's regime is utterly illegitimate" Really? Sure, there are many problems with the Karzai regime, but he is supported by many Pashtun, and once you take away the fraudulent votes, he was still supported by a large percentage of Afghans. How is that utterly illegitimate?

"The Afghan National Army will not even be able to feed itself in five years, much less turn back the mounting Taliban tide". This is another baseless and hyperbolic assertion that means absolutely nothing and gets us no-where.

And there's this. "The strategy's other component for dealing with the Taliban, "negotiating with moderates," is also ludicrous to anyone who is familiar with the insurgents. The Taliban are a virus. "

Again, have either of these two actually studied "The Taliban"? They aren't some uniform force that can't be reasoned with. Even Haqqani and Hekmatyar will be willing to talk if they are sufficiently weakened. And recent Saudi Peace talks with members of more moderate Taliban do suggest that there are those who are sick of the fighting. Whether they have any power to change the course of events in Afghanistan is a different argument, but painting "The Taliban" as a cancerous virus is incredibly useless in analyzing the best next steps forward.

And there is this meaningless gem: "Stanley McChrystal's plan to secure the urban areas (rather than the rural countryside where the insurgency is actually metastasizing) is plagiarized from the famous never-written textbook, How to Lose a War in Afghanistan, authored jointly by Alexander the Great, the British Empire, and the Soviet Union."

What does that even mean? Yet they devote an entire paragraph to this zinger. The only conclusion that I can make after reading this masterpiece of negativity is that they simply care more about assigning blame than meaningful discussion of a solution to an extremely difficult situation where there very well may be no good way out.

Maybe I'm wrong. If so, I'd love to hear just exactly what they think Obama should be doing.

 

STEVECAM

4:11 PM ET

December 28, 2009

How Smart is Obama?

You claim: "Obama is one of the most intelligent men ever to hold the U.S. presidency."

On what do you base this statement of "fact"? The man has refused to release almost anything in the way of school records. It appears from all reports and objectively available facts that he didn't even write articles, comments, or much of anything else to earn the job of Law Review Editor at Harvard Law School. His classmates at Columbia don't even remember him.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with your premise. Not that I claim the man to be stupid or slow, but your claim is unsupportable until and unless more is learned about the man. Do your job, media, get to the real facts and report them, not the kind of assumed pseudo-reality that your statement belies.

 

RIPPER23TW

7:15 AM ET

January 8, 2010

Obama's Indecent Interval

So you are saying that Obama is cynically sacrificing American lives in a cause that he knows to be false to facilitate his reelection? What kind of rotten bastard would do something like that...?