Big Trouble With Big China

From Washington to Beijing, relations are looking more tense than ever. Here's a guide to which disputes matter -- and which are likely to blow over fast.

BY JOHN LEE | FEBRUARY 2, 2010

U.S. President Barack Obama has spent much of the last 12 months emphasizing the "mutual interests" that Washington shares with Beijing and the "mutual respect" they feel toward one another, despite inevitable disputes. Democratic members of Congress have held their tongues as Obama does his wooing; Republicans have seethed at the soft approach. Yet valiant though his attempts may have been to convince the Chinese (and himself) that power is not a zero-sum game, 2009 proved the opposite. Last year, Obama was ignored, rebuffed, and even humiliated by Beijing. And now the grievances on both sides are piling up: U.S. tariffs on Chinese tires, China's currency manipulation, Chinese hacking of Google, U.S. arms sales to Taiwan. The gloves have come off.

Expect 2010 to be the year that Obama gets tough and relations with Beijing get nasty. What Washington really wants from China is for it to be part of the solution rather than a problem on global issues -- to be a "responsible stakeholder," a term coined by former Bush administration official Robert Zoellick. The idea was that it was in China's interest to contribute to global solutions for conundrums such as climate change or Iran getting nuclear weapons. China, however, often doesn't see it that way, believing that its relegation to a "responsible stakeholder"  -- along with emerging multilateral institutions like the G-20 -- is cleverly designed to keep China down.

So which U.S.-China disputes are intractable, and which are more easily solved? Think about them in three basic categories. Fundamental disagreements are the ones in which the Chinese Communist Party sees its very existence under threat; don't expect compromise there. Serious disagreements emerge over issues that could thwart China's rise in the region. And manageable disagreements are those that could merely damage China's reputation or some of its more minor economic interests. Here's how the most important U.S.-China quarrels break down:

Fundamental Disagreements

Climate change: The Obama administration sees climate change as a chance to demonstrate its moral leadership. But to get political support at home, Obama needs China to agree to binding emissions cuts. China sees things differently: Carbon reduction is an economic sacrifice that won't pay off for decades, if it does at all. And the Communist Party, which believes it must maintain 8 percent annual GDP growth to prevent social unrest, simply can't justify that. Any drop in growth is seen as a threat to stability, so Beijing's promises on climate change will inevitably be broken -- note China's pointed refusal at the Copenhagen summit to agree to let outside parties verify its emissions reductions.

Tibet and Xinjiang: The United States has long supported the dual freedoms of religion and expression for ethnic Tibetans and Uighurs in China. But Beijing's insistence that its treatment of ethnic minorities is an "internal matter" is absolute. A combination of recent historic humiliation at the hands of foreign powers and a habitual suspicion of outsiders have convinced Beijing that the United States and its allies are intent on ultimately "dividing and carving up China" in order to weaken it. Support for Tibetans and Uighurs under the banner of "human rights" is seen as another Western "divide and rule" strategy. U.S. meetings with the Dalai Lama, for example, are guaranteed to produce fireworks from Beijing. Because while there are just 4.5 million Tibetans and 10 million Uighurs, the lands they occupy happen to be resource-rich and strategically important.

FREDERIC J. BROWN/AFP/Getty Images

 

John Lee is foreign-policy fellow at the Centre for Independent Studies in Sydney and visiting fellow at the Hudson Institute in Washington. He is the author of Will China Fail?

SHERMIE BARBOUR

8:08 PM ET

February 2, 2010

@Freeda2

Hey Freeda,

Not the smartest cookie are you. The author is being implicitly critical of China. As for your perspective - I don't call many people racist but you are.

 

FREETRADER

8:42 PM ET

February 2, 2010

Taiwan

Good article, but it is actually not quite true to imply that Taiwan was ever fully Chinese. It was the US that decided to give Taiwan, which had been controlled by the Japanese for about fifty years, back to China. Mao had expressed his preference for making Taiwan independent. The point being, the history of Taiwan is quite muddled as it has historically been an uncontrolled haven for pirates and all sorts of revolutionaries, and it has been heavily influenced by Japan, who (surprisingly) were relatively benign rulers there and who built a lot of infrastructure.

The use of Taiwan as a symbol for the imperialist exploitation of China suited both the KMT rulers of post-civil war Taiwan (who wanted to drive a wedge between the people of Taiwan and the Japanese, whom many remembered sympathetically, while maintaining the illusion, that the KMT was still the legitimate ruler of all of China) and the PRC (who have cleverly muddied the historical waters in getting their own people, who are relatively ignorant of the history, all riled up about 'freeing' their wayward kin).

Thanks (or to blame) partly to the US, some sort of political integration may be inevitable, and economic integration already underway, but there is reason to believe that, as long as the US keeps up its carefully modulated support of the Taiwan people, a truly 'federal' system of one-country-two-governments can be maintained, until the time in the distant future that the Chinese people all have a say in their government. Assuming we still profess to support democratic governments, that should be the consistent and unvaring goal of US policy.

 

SHERMIE BARBOUR

8:53 PM ET

February 2, 2010

Thanks, I didn't know that

Thanks, I didn't know that and an important point in the current context that is obviously left out. I'll look into it for my own research.

 

TOMHE

2:52 AM ET

February 3, 2010

China's Taiwan

FREETRADER

You need to send me a book to explain that. I love to read it though. However, I would like to a macro-view: Taiwan is so small and so close to China that God will punish China if China does not take care of it.

Please think about how UK took India, and how US invaded Iraq, etc. I would not say China has more special needs than UK and US.

 

FREETRADER

9:52 AM ET

February 3, 2010

I'm sorry,

But I am afraid I don't understand what your point is, and I don't know what India and Iraq have to do with this (I realize you were attempting some analogy, but I don't get it). Are you suggesting that China should invade Taiwan because Taiwan is located in close proximity to China?

 

TOMHE

7:41 PM ET

February 3, 2010

A matter of will

FREETRADER,

I am sorry. My point was vague. What I was try to say was that human are driven by subjective will; if they think a thing belong to them, they try to take it. You pointed out that China used to have a low level control of Taiwan. It may be true. But a great of number of Chinese believe Taiwan is a part of China. Do you want to ban them or kill them?

 

SHERMIE BARBOUR

10:08 PM ET

February 3, 2010

To TomHe

You say "a great many Taiwanese consider themselves part of China..." Maybe so bit obviously not the majority of them or they would have join the mainland by now.

That's logic is flawed. It's like saying a "great many Americans are communists" which they were in the 1960s and 1970. So what?

 

SHERMIE BARBOUR

10:10 PM ET

February 3, 2010

To Tomhe

My apoplogies, I read your comment wrongly. You said: a great many Chinese consider Taiwan to be par of China. In fact, it seems to me that the vast majority of Chinese think that.

 

FREETRADER

12:08 AM ET

February 4, 2010

In 1939

a great number of Germans believed that the Sudatenland in Czechslovakia, which was ethnically and linguistically German, should be taken over by Germany. So they did. Later in 1939, a great number of Germans believed that Western Poland, parts of which had been historically German, should be taken over by Germany. So they did. Afterward, a great number of Germans believed that any non-German living in areas occupied or conquered by Germany should be exterminated. So they did that, too.

Today a large number of Chinese believe that Taiwan is not only ethnically Chinese, but must be controlled by the same dictatorship that controls the PRC. Does that make it the right answer?

I am not trying to argue that the PRC government is on a par with the Nazi's (although their historical record in killing people is pretty impressive). I am just trying to make the point that just because a power wants some territory or other item from a smaller people, they shouldn't be allowed to just roll over that people against their wishes, whatever historical narrative the stronger power creates (since the weaker power has its own alternative narrative). As the Germans discovered, attempting to overturn a settled international order against your potential victim's wishes is a good way to start a war.

 

TOMHE

3:08 AM ET

February 4, 2010

Be careful of your induction

During Boer war, British army killed many innocent people. I do not how many black men were killed during slave trades. Killing is a human phenomenon when there is strong human conflict. The rise of Nazi was a historical phenomenon. In part, UK and France had a contributtion to that. Those greedy politicians and pundits thought they could squeeze Germany to bone. I simply view the rise of Nazi was a react to something evil, even though I though Nazi was evil indeed. The induction, which you claimed that CCP is Nazi, is a rather biased view, at least not historical.

 

FREETRADER

4:17 AM ET

February 4, 2010

Tomhe,

Let's just say that your grasp of history is something less than rock solid. Your understanding of European history is extremely hazy, and your equation of (what I can only presume is) the Versailles Treaty to Nazism show a real lack of moral clarity. Also, to the extent I can understand what point you are trying to make, it seems to be "might makes right." Which I would admit is a pretty ballsy argument for someone to go with in the 21st century, when we are supposed to be civilized and all. However, even if we accept every part of your presumption, your final comment: "The induction, which you claimed that CCP is Nazi, is a rather biased view, at least not historical" is completely false.

I specifically said that I would NOT compare the CCP, at least in its current state, to the Nazis. I actually want China to succeed, with or without the CCP. I DID note, however, completely accurately, that the CCP has a lot of blood on its hands. That point is pretty uncontestable.

 

TOMHE

5:04 AM ET

February 4, 2010

Europe Histroy

FREETRADER
I really respect Europe; I try very hard to read books on European history. But I do have a short memory. Maybe that is the reason of my hazy understanding of Europe. I certainly will improve that.

I don't know why I have a special sympathy for Germany. If the leading minds of Germany had lower level of self expectation, the history of world would be re-written. I noticed that you compared China with Germany. I agree with you that China should not follow the wrong steps which Germany took.

 

FREETRADER

6:01 AM ET

February 4, 2010

Tomhe

You are correct, those are good comments. I'm sorry if my responses to your comments were overly 'confrontational'!

 

DESERTFOX

11:32 PM ET

February 4, 2010

Nazi vs. CCP

It's not a fair comparison between Nazi and CCP. Let's say Nazi did away with 6 million innocent Jews in WWII. By estimate, CCP eliminated about 50 million Chinese people.

 

FREETRADER

12:42 AM ET

February 5, 2010

Ah, yes,

But as the CCP is constantly saying, "that is purely an internal Chinese issue." They claim the right to kill all the Chinese they want, even if they live in another country. Stop interfering in the internal affairs of China!

 

IMPOSTER

9:32 PM ET

February 16, 2010

Taiwan

Wow !Talk of re-writing history. Yours is some history.

 

IMPOSTER

9:36 PM ET

February 16, 2010

Freetrader Taiwan

Your history is so wacked out I do not know where you get it from.

 

FREETRADER

9:11 AM ET

February 20, 2010

Imposter

I assume that if you knew anything about the subject you would make a substantive comment rather than just an adolescent jeer. If you think I've got a fact or facts wrong -- then please go right ahead, you are free to dissent. Otherwise I and others will assume that you don't know what the hell you are talking about and you will continue to be ignored.

 

TOMHE

9:04 PM ET

February 2, 2010

FREETRADER

You started with the the point of time:

It was the US that decided to give Taiwan, which had been controlled by the Japanese for about fifty years, back to China.

What happened before that? Your conclusion was influenced very much by the point that you decided to start your reasoning.

 

FREETRADER

10:59 PM ET

February 2, 2010

Tomhe,

I am not sure that it really influenced my conclusion but it was intended to show that the history of Taiwan is not clear cut. I did actually elude to the pre-1900 history, but essentially Taiwan was in a position similar to Hawaii in that until around the 1600s it was controlled by an indigineous population (fun fact: the people of Taiwan were the original polynesians, who spread out from Taiwan to eventual settled Tahiti, New Zealand, Hawaii, etc.). The place was actually first colonized by the Dutch, who after staying about 100 years were driven out by a famous ethnic Chinese pirate (although he was actually born in Hiroshima and his mother was Japanese). During this time a lot of settlement began from farmers in China, either fleeing the Mings or otherwise. They are who were currently call the Taiwanese.

Anyway, the point is that China never really had solid control of Taiwan, but that doesn't change my conclusion: if we accept the pretense (and if the Taiwanese agree, by the way) that Taiwan should eventually be integrated with China, we should be careful to not let the PRC's propaganda campaign make us do something, in the name of 'realism' that is bad for both the people of Taiwan and the US (not to mention distablizing for that part of the world). Forcing Taiwan to disarm would be a big mistake.

If the people of Taiwan want to become part of the PRC, it shouldn't be at the point of a gun.

 

JIMMY2010

3:49 AM ET

February 3, 2010

I think China has a lot of

I think China has a lot of contradictions inherent in the fact that it inherited (with the exception of a few pieces of territory) the Empire as controlled by the Manchu Qing dynasty. The problem of Taiwan is one of these, and the Qing took a long time after proclaiming the dynasty to actually take the Island.

Nowadays there has been a lot of runaway optimism here in Beijing about cross-strait relations given that the KMT's position switched to closer ties with China (which they didn't want at all until their power was challenged on the Island.) Cross strait integration was always going to be difficult given the electoral divide in Taiwan itself. This arms sale problem is being treated as entirely a US phenomenon in the media here, which is odd, since most transactions typically involve two parties. Equally, no consideration that this sale might be a reaction to anything China has / hasn't done or is doing. Almost like "Orientalism", but from the Chinese media itself. Of course, talk to any business leaders / political-business people and you will find a lot more pragmatic thinking.

 

JIMMY2010

3:51 AM ET

February 3, 2010

by contradictions

I mean mainly the anti-Imperialist / victim of Imperialism issue and the fact that modern China maintained the Qing's Imperial boundaries (roughly).

 

FREETRADER

9:56 AM ET

February 3, 2010

Yes,

Even more ironic is the fact that the PRC expanded the borders of China to invade and annex Tibet, which China had rarely, in history, ever had control or a rightful claim over. Of course, now anything having to do with Tibet is also a 'purely internal Chinese issue' that the laowei had better stay out of!

 

TOMHE

9:12 PM ET

February 2, 2010

the way of categorizating issues is arbitrary

Those you put in the category of fundamental disagreement are not really fundamental; they are marginal issues between China and US.

I suggest you to justify your categorization scheme before you categorizing.

 

SHERMIE BARBOUR

9:21 PM ET

February 2, 2010

I think it is an issue of how

I think it is an issue of how central these issues are to the Chinese. That's my reading of it.

 

JIMMY2010

3:56 AM ET

February 3, 2010

Economic Disputes

I also feel that the categories are a little bit confused here. Given the need for "rebalancing", I think the economic disputes (which imply slower chinese growth in the short term in order to resolve) are a major problem for Beijing. Unless the US takes the very benevolent position of allowing China to export its way out of the crisis, through structual and exchange rate methods, then Beijing will have a lot of protectionism to face, and with even a small movement in the RMB, can hardly claim that China itself is not practicing protection (well actually they do do this even with the peg, but no one outside China seems to agree, nor do many in China, i should add)

 

RAYCLARE

7:36 PM ET

February 4, 2010

Sinai

In Hebrew, the same letters stand for "mountain" and "concept."

the same letters stand for "Sinai" and "Chinese."
Few know that the symbols in which Torah is embodied are Hieroglyphs, elements of thought an d can be found within.
The Fed has co-operated in the moving of capital to China

after 911 Congress created an Intel agency with access to all others. When it found they consistently agreed on a thing---they could tell US and congress. In Feb '05 the NIC reported, "the next conflict will be economic between China, India and the US. It will peak in 2020. Iraq is a training ground for international terrorists, some of whom will inevitably blow-back on the US."
Is any admisitration honest when they ask that China appreciate their money and everything at Walmart goes up.
China is being honest in saying no because they don't want higher prices to encourage US production, competition. Complete monoply of production. Now that Colmmunism controls the means of production, their workers will be blessed because US workers don't.

 

SHERMIE BARBOUR

5:48 AM ET

February 3, 2010

If this is your first post,

If this is your first post, let's hope it's your last

 

GOLDDIGGER

10:11 PM ET

February 4, 2010

Merchantiliism Not Capitalism

So many people have gone ga-gah with the desire to call China capitalist. But I suggest that all of you need to look up Merchantilist in the dictionary. This is much more of what I saw in 2 years in working in the resource biz there and around them later in Africa. They have been more than protectionist in there actions stalemating foreign companies that have tried to explore for resources internally, and do not show much of a good-faith attitude towards markets when they acquire resources elsewhere. It is all about homeland, not free-trade. Interestingly, Paul Krugman, at NYT, has picked up on this lately.

Their refusal to float the RMB should be a wake-up call to all those true believers who still want to see China as capitalist, it just is not the direction they are headed anytime some.

 

SHERMIE BARBOUR

6:46 PM ET

February 5, 2010

@Golddigger

I completely agree. The group most adamanet about calling China 'capitalist' are business lobbies who want to maintain access to the market. Paradoxically, this is the group who should be most aware othat China is mercantilist. It seeks to benefit from the open market when it can, and restrict its operation when it is no longer to its advantage.

The US did the right thing at the time in engaging China economically and hoping that inernal reform to politics and attitudes would occur. But now it needs to recognise that its policy to do so has only partially succeeded.

 

SHERMIE BARBOUR

1:41 AM ET

February 13, 2010

This guy was warning about

This guy was warning about China 3 years ago when everyone had their rose inted glasses on.

Check out Will China Fail?: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/chinas-syndrome-of-lawless-growth/story-e6frg6t6-1111114682705