The Torture Commission We Really Need

It’s not enough just to understand what went wrong in the Justice Department. We need to start fixing it, too.

BY DAVID KAYE | MARCH 25, 2010

Long before the torture memos were written, we saw from the State Department, where I handled law of war issues, that the interagency process had been distorted. Two examples stand out.

The first came on November 13, 2001, when President Bush signed an order establishing military commissions to prosecute those associated with al Qaeda and the Sept. 11 attacks. To all but a handful of insiders, the military commissions came as a surprise. Lawyers from the State Department, Pentagon, National Security Council, White House Counsel, and Justice Department had been discussing a variety of ways of handling suspected terrorists.

At the working level in the State Department, we had viewed military commissions as one option among many, caveated by the fact that such commissions had not been used by the United States since the World War II era -- and much had changed in the legal landscape since then. Most importantly, the United States had signed up to the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and other treaties that framed the legal requirements for the trials of combatants and civilians. Our views were incorporated into preliminary discussions, but those talks were cut short, without explanation, when the president signed his order. By that stage, there had been no sustained interagency vetting of the idea, and few had seen the text of the order itself.

Two months later, in January 2002, my boss, State Department legal advisor William H. Taft IV, who was also a former deputy secretary of defense, learned at a White House meeting that the president would declare that the Geneva Conventions did not apply in the war in Afghanistan, on the basis of advice authored by Yoo to which we were not privy. What that meant was that individuals captured in Afghanistan, regardless of their affiliation, could be brought to the recently opened Guantánamo Bay prison without the protections of the Geneva Conventions. Taft and his own client, Secretary of State Colin Powell, believed strongly in the legal, moral, and humanitarian strictures of the laws of war, and they made their case in a tough but opaque debate that lasted throughout that month. But ultimately, on the basis of Justice Department advice alone, Bush decided that no one at Guantánamo would be protected by the established rules of international law.

All this came long before the Summer of Torture later that year. In those months, as the directives to allow torture were being approved, administration officials sought legal advice only from those already committed to a predetermined outcome, not necessarily those with expertise. The State Department's involvement early in 2002 had been a mere happenstance, not to be repeated during Yoo's torture colloquium. We had but two days to respond to a massive memo by Yoo arguing against Geneva, a task made easier only because his memo was so thoroughly untenable under domestic and international law.

We at State were not the only ones kept in the dark about what went on. We had been in the habit of seeking input from colleagues in other agencies, including the military -- until, that is, we learned that senior political appointees in the Office of the Secretary of Defense had told the lawyers at the Joint Chiefs of Staff to "stand down," as I was then told, and cease providing comments on the Geneva issue.

Bybee and Yoo certainly went to great lengths to push the limits of legal advice, but what was less complicated was making the bureaucracy work in their favor. The events that I saw unfold in 2002 demonstrate that the system itself was vulnerable to political manipulation. Nearly all of the troubling legal advice was provided by political appointees, not career public servants. The political appointees, often joined together through participation in movement politics or legal organizations such as the Federalist Society, maintained their personal and political allegiances. Many saw career lawyers in government as obstacles rather than sources of expertise. Though the appointee system often recruits some of the brightest and most ethical lawyers in the country -- as many later Bush administration and current Obama appointees demonstrate -- it also risks the possibility that a fiasco like that of 2002 will be repeated again.

Melissa Golden/Getty Images

 

David Kaye is executive director of the UCLA School of Law International Human Rights Program. He served as an attorney-advisor in the State Department from 1995 to 2005.

ACHARN

8:20 PM ET

March 25, 2010

By Golly, I forgot about that!

The abrupt decision to use military commissions was puzzling at the time, but I lost sight of it when the word came out about denying Geneva Convention protections to the prisoners. That whole year was full of infuriating news about how the Bush/Cheney/Addington administration was gelding the rule of law. Really, I wonder why nobody has yet bothered to dig out the back story of that decision. Where did that idea come from? I know at the time I thought it was a foolish mistake not to use the established Court Martial system. To this day I have not heard a persuasive argument in favor of military commissions. I truly do not understand why they are thought to be superior to either civilian courts or courts martial, except that it is easier to obtain convictions of innocent people in them. Now that I start thinking about it, the question becomes as fascinating as the remaining unanswered question of how L. Paul Bremer was able to confound all expectations and completely reverse policy by disbanding the Iraqi Army, apparently on his own whim, without any outcry at all.

 

SCOTTM2009

4:05 PM ET

March 26, 2010

waterboarding is not torture

Since waterboarding is not torture, the entire article is moot.
And military commissions are perfectly ok for terrorists, who are not combatants under the Geneva Conventions (which clearly define combatants).
Thus - pull your head out of your ass.

 

BRIAN SCOTT

4:35 PM ET

March 26, 2010

that settles it.

.
because Scott sez so.
.

 

PJBURKE

1:10 PM ET

March 27, 2010

Your mistaken belief is contrary to established legal fact

The Reagan Justice Department prosecuted a sheriff and 4 of his deputies in Texas for using waterboarding on criminal suspects in order to coerce confessions. The Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit -- which upheld their convictions, BTW -- referred to the technique as "water torture" at least a dozen times in their opinion.

This is what waterboard expert Senior Chief Malcolm Nance had to say, from his article entitled "Waterboarding is Torture, Period":

"As a former Master Instructor and Chief of Training at the US Navy Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape School (SERE) in San Diego, California I know the waterboard personally and intimately. SERE staff were required undergo the waterboard at its fullest. I was no exception. I have personally led, witnessed and supervised waterboarding of hundreds of people."

...

"With regards to the waterboard, I want to set the record straight so the apologists can finally embrace the fact that they condone and encourage torture."

...

"There is No Debate Except for Torture Apologists

1. Waterboarding is a torture technique. Period. There is no way to gloss over it or sugarcoat it. It has no justification..."

http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2007/10/waterboarding-is-torture-perio/

SCPO Nance's impressive bio is here: http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/authors/malcolm-nance/bio/

 

CKWEBBIT

10:12 AM ET

March 29, 2010

Ass

Whatever. You people use the GC when you feel like it and brush it off when you don't. People like you are terrorists accomplices.

 

BRIAN SCOTT

4:40 PM ET

March 26, 2010

another point to clear up with a proper investigation:

.We are currently holding about 60 men at Gitmo who we have thoroughly investigated and cleared for release. We know these men are not "terrorists," even if we can't say what that means, and that they were not combatants fighting out military.
After determining that they should be released, or at least transferred, we continue to hold them, and may hold them indefinitely, which could mean until they die in captivity.
If that was done to me, I would consider that a form of torture. Thus, it seems to this one ignoramus, that torture continues under President Obama.
.

 

CKWEBBIT

10:14 AM ET

March 29, 2010

Obama

Give it a rest. You probably sat on your hands when the Bushie said these people were terrorists.

The torture continues because YOU are here. They were held by the President YOU elected before, and they are held by the President YOU put in office.

 

ALINAUSTEX

12:00 PM ET

March 27, 2010

waterboarding is a war crime

Who would we appoint to the torture commission inquiry.?
Former Senator Danforth would be a good pick.
But it would be better to have him as a Special Prosecutor to go after the torturing war criminals .
Waterboarding is a war crime we hung Japanese General Officers after World War Two for waterboarding our personel ,
The Torture Commission might work better if he was part of a Truth and Reconcilation Commission- Botha came forward finally -maybe we can make Cheney step forward from his own undisclosed bunker on the darkside..

 

CKWEBBIT

10:20 AM ET

March 29, 2010

Why is the O a problem

These problems were here before Mr Obama came in.

Like I said, you have an elected government. So...

Terrorists tactics are used because of YOU. YOU elected the Bush.
Health bill is the way it is because of YOU. Like it or not.

"We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since my term's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it"

Instead of complaining, you should be helping your President.

You are losing the war on terror, son. Because you let your Bush created the war, and also became the lead war criminal. Don't think some euphemism, marketing and PR is going to cut it.

 

JAYPITSBY

12:41 PM ET

March 29, 2010

Fix it?

Like we fixed healthcare?

 

JENNIE G

2:48 PM ET

March 29, 2010

Fix the Issues

Commission of inquiry is set many times but whtas the use if the problems and issues of the people are not resolved. rather than setting up inquiry every now and then diretc approach should be made to relieve citizens from the pain of injustice.

Jennie
www.sampleresumes.in

 

WARPIG

7:28 AM ET

April 5, 2010

So if waterboarding really is torture...

Why do we still allow it to be done on US military personnel as part of training? Why isn't Senior Chief Nance in the brig right now for waterboarding his fellow service members? I'm sure he would hide behind the "I was just following orders" argument. If he felt this was so wrong and indeed it was torture, why didn't he speak up and report it? I believe that is part of a staff non-commissioned officer's responsibility...

My point is waterboarding, SERE training, combat conditioning have been done for years within the US military and no one cared. The minute a few pollsters felt they could make political hay out of this issue, is when it became torture and a tool to be used against the Bush administration. No one is upset that a miltary service member was put through these harsh conditions but the fact that a terrorist is made to feel uncomfortable... shock and tragedy. As a nation we need to get our priorities right.

 

PBWESTON

9:45 AM ET

April 6, 2010

You are missing the point....

The SERE training (Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape) was done to prepare our troops for torture, in the event they are captured by our enemy. Considering that many rogue states and various groups would torture, perhaps waterboard, and certainly do things far beyond that to our troops, it seems logical to train our troops for this kind of treatment.

Regardless, the UN Convention Against Torture, which we signed on to and ratified, defines Torture as "severe pain and suffering," which, you may notice is quite broad. The policy of the Bush administration, as articulated by the Office of Legal Council memo (Jay Bybee, August 2002) defines it as "serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death." Arguably this exonerates acts which feign "organ failure" and other conditions which lead to death, like Waterboarding (i.e. death by drowning). Others disagree, even under Bush's thoroughly articulated definition of Torture.

There is ample evidence that our country has prosecuted others for Waterboarding (the Japanese after WWII, amongst others), and defined it as Torture.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170.html

The problem is, there is not a firm policy which outlaws Torture in any and all situations. Perhaps there shouldn't even be a policy which outlaws interrogation methods in any and all situations. But if we are to come to that conclusion, it would only be through a Torture Commission, like the one mentioned above in the article.

President Obama should make it happen.

 

GERRYDUFFETT

8:42 AM ET

April 9, 2010

Press Announcement/Fri Apr 16 2010/Microwave Weapons/Torture

Press Announcement / Fri Apr 16 2010 / Microwave Weapons / Torture

Greetings!

Everyone feel free to distribute the following press announcement to national and local media - TV, radio, newspapers about our upcoming press conference.
We are seeing the beginnings of a developing news story regarding organized stalking and electronic torture.
In the past few months we've had 2 mainstream TV shows, 2 local TV news stories (San Antonio,TX and Louisville,KY), and several local newspaper articles featuring our issues.
We're on a roll because of everyone's efforts at exposing these atrocities.
Keep up the great work!

Derrick Robinson

Press Announcement

On Friday, April 16, 2010, the human rights organization, Freedom From Covert Harassment and Surveillance in alliance with Ms. Connie Marshall, candidate for mayor of Louisville, Kentucky will convene a press conference at

Cornerstone Cottage,

3799 Bardstown Road (address for directions)
2201 Sieger Villa Court (mailing address)
Louisville , KY 40218

502-777-0926

info@cornerstonecottageky.com

......at 11:30 am,

to call attention to a new wave of criminal behavior called organized stalking and electronic torture.

The victims of these covert crimes suffer the effects of mind and body-invasive technologies that have caused great physical, psychological, and emotional harm to many thousands of targeted individuals across the country and the globe.

The perpetrators of these crimes range from rogue elements of every level of government to corporations to private citizens.

Not since the late 70's has a serious look been given to the increasing intrusion by the US intelligence agencies into the private lives of American citizens. A congressional hearing and investigation into these covert activities is way overdue. A gathering of engineers, doctors, authors, a psychologist, and human rights activists, to name a few are expected to speak. One of the speakers is a Missouri statehouse representative and one of the guest speakers appeared in an episode last season of Jesse Ventura's "Conspiracy Theory" television series. The importance and prominence of this assembly of individuals signals the rise of a major issue in this country whose time has come to be addressed.

EVENT SPEAKERS: (in alphabetical order)

Chris Crowder, Mechanical Engineer
Dr. John Hall, Anesthesiologist, Author, A New Breed: Satellite Terrorism in America
Robert Duncan O'Finioan, former Manchurian Candidate
Rep. Jim Guest, Missouri House of Representatives
Cyndie Spanier, Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist
Dr. Terry Robertson, Anesthesiologist
Tim White, Human Rights Activist, Telecommunications Engineer
Katherine Moore, former Vice-Mayor, Wilmington, NC
Mary Ann Stratton, Human Rights Activist
Michael Lauria, commercial airline pilot, ret.
Joan Germano, Real Estate Agent
Jo Rabjohn, Author
Brian Uram, Real Estate Agent

For more information about this unfolding story, please review the following news stories:

This is a segment from a recent History Channel documentary called "That's Impossible" about Mind Control, which aired approx. 8/25/09.

At about 5:30 into this segment, the story begins about a targeted individual,

Cheryl Welsh who is a victim of modern-day mind control technologies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBQXdgQRjFc

Here is a TV news story in San Antonio, Texas about organized stalking perpetrated by covert harassment groups:

http://www.kens5.com/home/Stalked-drugged-and-raped-Is-it-happening-in-San-Antonio.html

Local TV newstory from WLKY, Louisville, KY about electronic torture victim Connie Marshall, candidate for mayor

http://www.wlky.com/politics/22317065/detail.html

Contact information:

Connie Marshall, Candidate for mayor of Louisville, Kentucky

carlenamarshall@yahoo.com

www.justiceforallcitizens.com

502-322-3449

Derrick Robinson, President
Freedom From Covert Harassment and Surveillance

derrickcrobinson@gmail.com

www.freedomfchs.com

513-344-4113

Freedom From Covert Harassment and Surveillance

P.O. Box 9022
Cincinnati, Ohio 45209

Phone: 1-800-571-5618
Fax: 1-866-433-4170

info@freedomfchs.com

http://www.freedomfchs.com

Electronic Harassment
Microwave Harassment
Microwave Weapons
Neurological Weapons

"Radio Waves used as Weapons"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtrYF7pGZlM

Gerry Duffett

3358-A McCowan Rd
Basement
Scarborough Ontario
Canada M1V 5P5

duffett52@yahoo.com,
gerryduffett@fastmail.ca,

http://gerryduffett.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general