Justice... justice... justice...

You also never see the "out of the box" idea:
One person, one vote for everyone between river and sea.

Why should anyone in the West invest one more bean or breath in the support of any solution that in any way falls short of what we would expect and have fought to achieve for ourselves: one person, one vote.

Read the Qu'ran. It justifies, even rewards the killing of non-muslims. Jihad is the ultimate goal of a muslim. Islam is more of an ideology than a religion. Islam is tied up to the Sharia, which controls every aspect of life of a muslem, even sexuality. What other religion on earth incites violence, rape, abuse, murder?

This is exactly the twisted rubbish argument of an ignorant fool. You have not read the Quran. You are just promoting lies, like a racist. Please offer an proper civilised argument or shut up.

The Koran does no justify killing anymore than the Bible or the Torah does. You need to clean up your own messianic illegal settler terrorists first before you go babbling on with nonsense.

Tens of thousands of religious Zionists inhabit illegal settlements east of the separation barrier on the West Bank. Thousands more “hilltop youth” occupy armed outposts deep in Palestinian territory. These settlements and outposts operate some 200 paramilitary squads, armed with automatic weapons (and “the best telescopic sights on the market”) and even armoured vehicles. They perpetrate violence against the Palestinians and are ready to defy any attempt by the state to stop them.

Time and again, Muslim graves and mosques are desecrated, harvests torched, sheep rustled, cars stoned and damaged, homes and shops forcibly occupied. Palestinians are chased off their own land by gunfire. Just last week, settlers cut down 300 olive trees. Israelis are the new nazi’s.

In the Arab world, militants who fight to create an Islamic state are generally considered the enemy. In Israel, the armed underground movement which aims to create a Torah state is treated with kid gloves.

Unless Israel’s fanatical settlers -- both religious-nationalist and ultra-orthodox -- are confronted, and their messianic ambitions tamed, there will be no peace in the Middle East.

Now, please stop showing us your ignorance.

From 1948 Palestine was not occupied, except by Jordan and Egypt, and at any time the Palestinians could have created a state - all that they say they want, but refused. The fact is what they wanted then and Hamas fully acknowledges still wants and a recent poll on the West Bank says a large majority of Palestinians still want not a state, living in peace next to a Jewish state, but the whole thing.

When in 1949 the armistice line was drawn - which is the '67 borders today - just by the pure happenstance of where the soldiers were that day - and the Arabs insisted that those not be the final borders, believing they would conquer more land and tried in the Six Day War. When UN Resolution 242 was passed, the two men who drafted it, the UKs Lord Caradon and US Eugene Rostow, explicitly stated the '49/'67 borders would NOT be the final borders which would have to be negotiated between the parties and until such time as the Palestinians agreed to do so and new lines were drawn, Israel would occupy the West Bank. Had the Palestinians ever agreed to negotiate new borders, secure as Resolution 242 spelled out, the conflict could have ended long ago.

The Palestinians and the Arabs at Khartoum gave the Three 'No's to any negotiated solution.

The Palestinians have committed one grotesque terrorist act after another, aimed only at civilians, hijacks, Munich, old people at Passover etc, etc, and recently, just weeks ago had the good taste to name a square after a suicide bomber who killed 30+ people including 13 children. It was a crime punishable by death - and carried out - to even dicusss a two-state solution.

Is Israel blameless or always right? No. Is all criticism of Israel anti-Semitic? No, again, but might you consider that just maybe the Palestinians and the Arabs are not 100 right as your comment would leave the world to think you believe.

Why not build a viable civil society in Gaza and the West Bank. There is not a successful Arab state anywhere. Poverty, illiteracy, repression, corruption, one after the other, some are very religious, others secular, but not one provides its people with a decent quality of life.

Look around you - Egypt is a cesspool, the Saudi Royals buy off their people, Assad is silly man and the society barely survives, the Lebanese take short breaks from their perpetual civil war, Saddam murdered everyone. Libya is a sick joke. And Israel is a thriving democracy and contributes Nobel prize achievements to the world.

The Arabs and the Palestinians have not come to grips with the existence of israel, have not taken the hard road of building viable societies for decent lives for their people and of course blame it all, as always, on Israel, on America on anyone but the real determinant of anyone's success or failure - yourselves.

Sorry Lal Qila your facts, your interpretation, your vision of the future is just more blaming somebody else. Imagine if Hamas had taken Gaza and turned it into a new Singapore? The world, America, Israel would be singing its praise. Instead it took the opportunity to grow up and accomplished nothing. Nothing.

From 1948 Palestine was not occupied, except by Jordan and Egypt, and at any time the Palestinians could have created a state - all that they say they want, but refused. The fact is what they wanted then and Hamas fully acknowledges still wants and a recent poll on the West Bank says a large majority of Palestinians still want not a state, living in peace next to a Jewish state, but the whole thing.

When in 1949 the armistice line was drawn - which is the '67 borders today - just by the pure happenstance of where the soldiers were that day - and the Arabs insisted that those not be the final borders, believing they would conquer more land and tried in the Six Day War. When UN Resolution 242 was passed, the two men who drafted it, the UKs Lord Caradon and US Eugene Rostow, explicitly stated the '49/'67 borders would NOT be the final borders which would have to be negotiated between the parties and until such time as the Palestinians agreed to do so and new lines were drawn, Israel would occupy the West Bank. Had the Palestinians ever agreed to negotiate new borders, secure as Resolution 242 spelled out, the conflict could have ended long ago.

The Palestinians and the Arabs at Khartoum gave the Three 'No's to any negotiated solution.

The Palestinians have committed one grotesque terrorist act after another, aimed only at civilians, hijacks, Munich, old people at Passover etc, etc, and recently, just weeks ago had the good taste to name a square after a suicide bomber who killed 30+ people including 13 children. It was a crime punishable by death - and carried out - to even dicusss a two-state solution.

Is Israel blameless or always right? No. Is all criticism of Israel anti-Semitic? No, again, but might you consider that just maybe the Palestinians and the Arabs are not 100 right as your comment would leave the world to think you believe.

Why not build a viable civil society in Gaza and the West Bank. There is not a successful Arab state anywhere. Poverty, illiteracy, repression, corruption, one after the other, some are very religious, others secular, but not one provides its people with a decent quality of life.

Look around you - Egypt is a cesspool, the Saudi Royals buy off their people, Assad is silly man and the society barely survives, the Lebanese take short breaks from their perpetual civil war, Saddam murdered everyone. Libya is a sick joke. And Israel is a thriving democracy and contributes Nobel prize achievements to the world.

The Arabs and the Palestinians have not come to grips with the existence of israel, have not taken the hard road of building viable societies for decent lives for their people and of course blame it all, as always, on Israel, on America on anyone but the real determinant of anyone's success or failure - yourselves.

Sorry Lal Qila your facts, your interpretation, your vision of the future is just more blaming somebody else. Imagine if Hamas had taken Gaza and turned it into a new Singapore? The world, America, Israel would be singing its praise. Instead it took the opportunity to grow up and accomplished nothing. Nothing.

Timothy McVeigh provided very much the same argument in justifying his murder of the innocent in Oklahoma City. Even killing all those babies in day care didn't trouble him in the least. He striking a blow against the murderers of Waco, and if a few hundred innocents died, well, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. He went to his execution unrepentant. He reminds me so much of you, Lal Qila. Yes, there is such a thing as terrorism. McVeigh was a terrorist. So are the suicide-homicide bombers in Israel. And you, Lal Qila, are merely an apologist for terrorism.

lmao, sirmixalot you will become a great ambassador one day...

Does it matter who's fault is? It a puzzle why people look at this at all and America is not at fault.

The main reason for no agreement is the Arabs un-acceptance of a Jewish state at all. I would suggest based on my observations, giving Abu Amar's rejection of the Camp David accord and Abu Mazen's rejection of the Olmert proposals that the Palestinians do not want to compromise. Both sides see this as a zero-sum game and as such both delay to get the other been punched by a third party.

IMHO, the current US administration policy has zero chance to achieve a solution. A critical observation is that America cannot impose Pax Americana even after they invaded other countries.

It is a matter of record that Abu Mazan has 'negotiated' with seven Israeli government over the past 18 years with no success. Israeli obstructionism has been the key factor. Israel does not want peace, they want land.

During the Oslo talks when Israel agreed to a complete settlement freeze they built up the West Bank exponentially. True hypocrites.

A complete settlement freeze is not a 'precondition' it is a requirement of the Roadmap.

Now to Camp David. “We offered them everything and they refused” has long-since been discredited, and not just by the Palestinians.
But also, among others, by former Israeli Foreign Minister and negotiator at Camp David, Shlomo Ben Ami, who said: “if I were a Palestinian I would have rejected Camp David, as well”.

Israeli leaders have rejected every Palestinian proposal for ceasefire or peace,blindly pursuing the Zionazi policy of ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people from their homeland. It is no surprise this history was also rewritten by Israel to shed Palestinians in a negative light.

It should first be noted that Palestinians have conceded their claim to 78% of historical Palestine, and agreed to form a new state on the remaining 22%, which is comprised of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
• Israel proposed that 69 settlements, populated by 85% of West Bank settlers would be annexed by Israel. These settlements would reduce the Palestinian state by 10%, not to mention severely disrupt travel and daily life in the West Bank.
• Israel proposed “temporary control” of yet another 10% of land that housed the most extreme of settlers. Essentially this means that a foreign power would control the land of another sovereign nation.
• The remaining areas would be broken up by Israeli bypass roads and checkpoints, forcing Palestinians to live on bantustans or reservations (like South Africans or Native Americans), in a non-contiguous state.
• Palestinians were also expected to relinquish land considered most essential for trade and tourism.
• Israel would maintain very vital controls over Palestinian water, Palestinian borders, and Palestinian airspace.

Anyone in their right minds would not have accepted such a ridiculous proposal that would continue to force millions of people to live as slaves on bantustans.

And as we see with this latest news, Israel is continuing to expand into Palestinian territory, in complete violation of international law - illegal and immoral actions.

Here! Here! Sir Mix!

After saying that neither side should “threaten its neighbor’s security and existence,” Bibi has insisted the Palestinians agree to permanent state of vulnerability. Specifically, once the Palestinians agree to have no army, no control of their air space, and to forever forswear military treaties—then Israel “will agree to a real peace agreement." Ridiculous. Would Israel agree to "peace" if they were asked to do this? No? Why should the Palestinians.

Bibi's vision of a two-state solution—“each with its flag, anthem and government”—suggests that he thinks the Palestinians will accept some sort of limited self-government arrangement so long as they get to fly their own flag and sing a national song. Ridiculous.

Demiliterized Palestine = demiliterized Israel

Well, you seem to have all the answers, right. Here's your theme:

Israelis are so stupid about their country, situation, and region on life-and-death issues which they deal with daily that they must be saved in spite of themselves by people who have no knowledge or experience on any of these things. No other country in the world is so frequently told this kind of thing which I read all the time on reddit.

Is it so hard to comprehend that Israeli views and behavior are based on years of experience and study? That Israelis know best how to save themselves and have been doing a far better job of it, against tremendous odds and unhelpful kibbitzers,than many others? That heeding their prescriptions would be disastrous, in fact have already proven so? After all, the tragic history of the last 20 years has largely resulted from listening to the same advice people like you give now.

So it would be a splendid thing for Israel to tear down its settlements, put the settlers behind its pre-1967 borders and finally reach the peace deal with the Palestinians that has been so elusive for so long.

Except for one problem: The Israeli-Palestinian conflict isn't territorial. It's existential.

Israelis are now broadly prepared to live with a Palestinian state along their borders. Palestinians are not yet willing to live with a Jewish state along theirs.

That should help explain why it is that in the past decade, two Israeli prime ministers—Ehud Barak in 2000 and Ehud Olmert in 2008—have put forward comprehensive peace offers to the Palestinians, and have twice been rebuffed. In both cases, the offers included the division of Jerusalem; in the latter case, it also included international jurisdiction over Jerusalem's holy places and concessions on the subject of Palestinian refugees. Current Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has also offered direct peace talks. The Palestinians have countered by withdrawing to "proximity talks" mediated by the U.S.

It also helps explain other aspects of Palestinian behavior. For Hamas, Tel Aviv is no less a "settlement" than the most makeshift Jewish outpost on the West Bank. The supposedly moderate Fatah party has joined that bandwagon, too: Last year, Mohammed Dahlan, one of Fatah's key leaders, said the party was "not bound" by the 1993 Oslo Accords through which the PLO recognized Israel.

Then there is the test case of Gaza. When Israel withdrew all of its settlements from the Strip in 2005, it was supposed to be an opportunity for Palestinians to demonstrate what they would do with a state if they got one. Instead, they quickly turned it into an Iranian-backed Hamas enclave that for nearly three years launched nonstop rocket and mortar barrages against Israeli civilians. Israel was ultimately able to contain that violence, but only at the price of a military campaign that was vehemently denounced by the very people who had urged Israel to withdraw in the first place.

The withdrawal exposed other things too. For years, Israel's soi-disant friends, particularly in Europe, had piously insisted that they supported Israel's right to self-defense against attacks on Israel proper. But none of them lifted a finger to object to the rocket attacks from Gaza, while they were outspoken in denouncing Israel's "disproportionate" use of retaliatory force.

Similarly, Israel withdrew from Gaza with assurances from the Bush administration that the U.S. would not insist on a return to the 1967 borders in brokering any future deal with the Palestinians. But Hillary Clinton reneged on that commitment last year, and now the administration is going out of its way to provoke a diplomatic crisis with Israel over a construction project that—assuming it ever gets off the ground—is plainly in keeping with past U.S. undertakings.

In the past decade, Israelis have learned that neither Palestinians nor Europeans can be taken at their word.

Why do you keep going like this? The facts are against you and Israel, we all know it. Your beating a dead horse. Israel is the problem, and until you and they learn that the world will no longer put up with Israel exceptionalism.

...Israelis are now broadly prepared to live with a Palestinian state along their borders. Palestinians are not yet willing to live with a Jewish state along theirs. Really? Then you might want to check with Bibi and his Moldavian thug of an FM, the Likud party platform., and all those illegal settler terrorists. They would beg to differ and you know it. While your at it check some more intl news blogs because Bibi chokes on the words 'two state solution'.

Israel might want a two state solution but their preconditions for a Palestinain state are at best laughable. Bibi's vision of a two-state solution—“each with its flag, anthem and government”—suggests that he thinks the Palestinians will accept some sort of limited self-government arrangement so long as they get to fly their own flag and sing a national song.

Moreover, after saying that neither side should “threaten its neighbor’s security and existence,” Bibi has insisted the Palestinians agree to permanent state of vulnerability. Specifically, once the Palestinians agree to have no army, no control of their air space, and to forever forswear military treaties—then Israel “will agree to a real peace agreement." Ridiculous. Would Israel agree to "peace" if they were asked to do this? No? Why should the Palestinians.

Wow! What an attractive offer in the eyes of the Israeli leadership, and in the future the Palestinians will be blamed for not accepting it, exactly as Olmert and Barak blamed Arafat and Abu Mazen for not agreeing to their similar offers, which only differed in the way they were said or written.

Israel makes offers but not a legitimate or reasonable ones.

Since Israel “withdrew” from Gaza in September 2005 ’til today, the estimates run between 7,000 and 9,000 heavy artillery shells have been shot and fired into Gaza. On the Palestinian side, the estimates are approximately 1,000 Kassam missiles, crude missiles, have been fired into Israel. So we have a ratio of between seven and nine to one.

Israel runs daily incursions into Gaza even though it withdrew.
Gaza is sealed off and surrounded by Israel.

Gaza is bordered by watchtowers like the evil eye in the Lord of the Rings, the biggest one being near Raffia. It’s absolutely inhuman.

Israel never left Gaza. It still occupies Gaza’s airspace and coastal waters and controls all entrances and exits. Please let me know how all those humanitarian ships trying to get through the Israeli blockade are doing since Israel 'left' Gaza.

When Israel finally “leaves” Gaza let me know.

Last time I checked, there is no Israeli soldier in Gaza. The incursions that you mentioned are not happening because the IDF wants to be in Gaza; it is because the raison d'etre of Hamas, PIJ and other "resistance" groups (I called them terrorist groups) is to deliver on Hamas Charter and specifically Chapter 12.

The issue is not Israeli exceptionalism, it is Palestinian rejectionism. Try again

Here is some more from the Talmud and Torah:

* It is allowed to cheat a gentile and take usury of him (Baba Mezia 61a, Abhodah Zarah 54a).

* The goyim [Christians] are regarded as unclean (Schabbath 145b, Abhodah Zarah 22b).

* It is not allowed to rob a brother Jew, but to rob a gentile is allowed (Baba Mezia 61a; Sanhedrin 57a).

* The goyim are not like men but are as animals (Kerithuth 6b). The seed of a goy is worth the same as that of a beast (Kethuboth 3b; Baba Mecia 114, 6).

* A Jew must not enter the home of a Christian (Gittin 62a).

* The goyim are not to be cured or helped when sick, even for money (Abodah Zarah 27b; Iore Dea 158, 1).

* It is permitted to deceive a goy (Babha Kama 113b). Jews must try to deceive Christians (Zohar I, 160a).

* A Jew may lie and perjure himself to condemn a Christian (Babha Kama 113a-113b).

* A Jew shall not do injury to other Jews, but the law does not prohibit injury to a goy (Mishna Sanhedryn 57).

* Those who do good to the Christian . . . will not rise from the dead (Zohar I, 25b).

* All the festivals of the followers of Jesus are forbidden, and we must conduct ourselves towards them as we would towards idolaters (Abodah Zarah 2a, 78c).

* Do not save a goy in danger of death (Hilkkoth Akum, XX, 1).

* When a Jew and a goy come to court, you must absolve the Jew and take his side as far as possible according to Jewish law. If, however, the Jew can be absolved according to gentile law, absolve him (Babha Kama 113a).

* A Jew may keep anything he finds belonging to the Akum [Christian], to return it is a sin (Choschem Ham 266, 1).

Of course, some perspective is useful in interpreting old texts in modern contexts --- for all monotheistic religions.

Deuteronomy 20:10-17:
"When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be enslaved by you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city.

When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, kill all the men. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, these are your possessions to dispose of as you wish.

This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, exterminate all that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you."

Surprised there is a mideast problem?

Those prophecies that have been fullfilled by the OT prophets were fulfilled 100% in accuracy and timing, because G-d's Word is 100% accurate. It is written that He knows the end from the beginning, and has proved to be absolutely correct.

The prophecy of Zecharia is yet to be fulfilled because it is for the "latter days", as are Daniel's visions, Isaiah 17, Ezekiel 38 and 39, and more. One has to be very careful in discerning the context of the written Word and the times it it addressing. I have made it my life's passion to study eschatology, especially as it concerns "The apple of G-d's eye", Israel. She is G-d's "timepiece". By the way, ANY gentile who was willing to embrace Israel's G-d was welcomed into the fold. I have done so with all my heart, just like Ruth did.

The enmity between Ishmael and Isaac was predicted when Abraham sent Hagar and Ishmael out of Abraham's camp, so one can hardley be surprised that the conflict is raging, especially today. Those who bless Israel will be blessed, and those who curse her will be cursed. Those who "trouble" Jerusalem will do so to their own sorrow.

I have read the Book, and I know the ending, and am still astonished to see so many things so rapidly unfolding before my very eyes in daily news that were predicted thousands of years ago for the time we live right now. It is both humbling and reassuring in a time of global chaos to know that events will come to pass exactly as has been foretold , and most of all, it has a happy ending for ANYONE who truly loves peace, justice, and Truth.

Because all this vicious anti-semitism is not what is in the Talmud. You seem to have sourced this from webpages openly listing themselves as Nazi era german propaganda.. Based on texts that in most cases were written down 500 years before Jesus was born?

Further, I as a Jew am insulted you are denigrating Christians in this manner with your lies, lumping them into the ancient classification of Pagans according to the talmud. Christians are in fact blood brothers of Judaism, believe in the same texts, & worship the same Gd. Meaning it is you attacking Christians in this manner not Jews or the talmud.

Every single article on this site has your comments under them, all of them viciously anti semitic or virulently anti-Israel. Do you think you are fooling people with your obvious psychosis? This is my only comment to you, Sir Lie A lot becuase I have been reading here a while and am disgusted by you routinely.

You bring all these passages from the Old testament to demonstrate the malignity of Judaism (vs. Islam). The main questions is, do Jews still practice these old and discarded customs?. The answer is emphatically NO.

In fact, one of the 10 commandments strickly states: DO NOT LIE.
Yes indeed, there are many passages in the OT, which have been outright outlawed - Polygamy being a prime example.

Compare that to the Quran, which still instructs innocent Muslims, view Jews as "Apes & Pigs", as holy deeds.

The point is, all 3 holy books (Old, New Testament and Quran) contain passages objectionable to todays standards. Quran is the only one which demands its believers to follow each and every chapter, paragraph, sentence, and word, exactly as written, with no questions asked or challanges.

This is the core of the problem between Judea-Christianity and Islam.

You bring all these passages from the Old testament to demonstrate the malignity of Judaism (vs. Islam). The main questions is, do Jews still practice these old and discarded customs?. The answer is emphatically NO.

In fact, one of the 10 commandments strickly states: DO NOT LIE.
Yes indeed, there are many passages in the OT, which have been outright outlawed - Polygamy being a prime example.

Compare that to the Quran, which still instructs innocent Muslims, view Jews as "Apes & Pigs", as holy deeds.

The point is, all 3 holy books (Old, New Testament and Quran) contain passages objectionable to todays standards. Quran is the only one which demands its believers to follow each and every chapter, paragraph, sentence, and word, exactly as written, with no questions asked or challanges.

This is the core of the problem between Judea-Christianity and Islam.

The truth hurts Saus. Stick to the facts and stop the anti-semiticsm stuff.

Of course, any reference to anti-Semitism is code for an urgent need (as you see it) to defend the acts of barbarity of the so-called Jewish state.

Anti-Semitism is a label used to deflect issues from facts and censor discussion and debate.

The term “anti-semitism” loses a bit of its meaning each time someone uses it for a smear, it’s self-defeating and just plain stupid.

You really need to stop. You’re only making Jews look really bad and you’re not helping anything.

It’s not anti-semitism for criticizing Israel or their policies telling people the apartheid, oppression, fanaticism, and occupation are immoral and inhumane.

once again, you write nonsense. Try to look aside from the propaganda you've been fed since birth. And what is the point of this scenario anyway? It will be a cold day in hell when Netanyahu would even say something nice about muslims - you do know his father is a raging islamaphobe?

For confirming that you are indeed a racist, islamophobic idiot. No doubt if we had our druthers we would deport you to some corner too.

I don't know that the conflict between Israel and Palestine is even a fair, loose comparison to the Holocaust. Also let's keep in mind that the bloodletting is occurring on both sides. So sad that it is all over a completely worthless chunk of land. Try to view it from this perspective, albeit entirely science fiction: If you were an alien race from outer space landing on a planet Earth entirely uninhabited by intelligent life, and you had a full knowledge of the planet's natural resources and agricultural potential, one of the last places on the planet you would choose to settle (just after Antarctica, the Sahara, and the Atacama Desert in Chile) would be Israel.

Don't forget though, that a lot of those other mostly worthless chunks of dirt you mentioned are actually very valuable because of oil. Israel doesn't even have that in any noticeable quantity, which in my mind makes it even more worthless than many of those other countries despite its marginally more hospitable climate. Regardless, you get the point. Of all the territorial disputes in history (and someone please provide a counter-example if you have one) the dispute over the empty, resourceless land mass that is Israel makes the least sense.

Obviously, the idiot who posted this stuff won't be interested in any rebuttals, but for those who would like to know what is actually written in the Talmud, I would suggest going to http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/

Jama: You sound like a reasonable man but how do you explain, justify or rationalise that 99% of the bullets and bombs that rip apart the flesh of innocent Palestinian men, women and children are shot by foreign or Jews of foreign-extraction?

Imagine the most immoral Israeli army terrorising innocent Palestinian men, women and children for 60+ years; how does that affect the quest for peace; is this how the over-clever Jews build trust?

Critical thinking is not too common these days; just like common sense; both have gone missing specially from the domain of the over-clever, over-greedy, exceedingly rich and the self-styled higher IQ crowd.