Don't Even Think About It

The Cold War was scary enough. Now try to imagine a nuclear arms race between China and India.

BY CHRISTIAN CARYL | JULY 13, 2010

Europeans and Americans, who have dominated world affairs for so long, are understandably fascinated by the recent rise of China and India. It's obvious that the rapid economic resurgence of these two great Asian powers fundamentally alters the global rules of the game.

China and India have built up a $60-billion-per-year trading relationship, and for years they've insisted that they want to work more closely on a variety of fronts. Yet that expressed desire for collaboration co-exists uneasily with a long-running strategic rivalry. Parts of their mutual border remain in dispute. China has long supported Pakistan, India's main enemy, while the Indians have often befriended competitors of the Chinese (be it Moscow or Washington). Lately Beijing has been cultivating relationships among countries in Southeast Asia and the Indian Ocean -- including Bangladesh, Myanmar, and Sri Lanka -- to protect the flow of commerce and access to supplies of natural resources. That has the Indians fearing encirclement.

Lately, though, another element is threatening to complicate the strategic calculus: the nuclear factor. In themselves, of course, nuclear weapons are nothing new to either country. China has been a nuclear power for decades, while India conducted its first nuclear test in 1974 (though most outsiders tend to think of 1998, when New Delhi conducted a series of underground explosions designed to establish its bona fides as a genuine nuclear power). Although both countries have sworn off first use, both have built up formidable deterrents designed to retaliate against any attackers.

So what's new? A lot. Concurrent with their rising economic might, China and India have set about modernizing their militaries to lend extra muscle to their growing strategic ambitions -- and given their complicated history, that can't help but spark worries. "China has the most active and diverse ballistic missile development program in the world," noted one U.S. report. "China's ballistic missile force is expanding in both size and types of missiles." China's Dongfeng long-range missiles boast independently controlled multiple warheads, mobility, and solid fuel (meaning that they can be fired with little notice). That's just one of many areas in which the Chinese have demonstrated their advanced technological capabilities. In January China shot down one of its own satellites with a missile -- once again demonstrating, as it did with a previous test in 2007, that it's well down the path toward a ballistic missile defense system.

That test unnerved the Indians, who saw the prospect of Chinese space weapons as a potential threat to the credibility of their own nuclear deterrent. The Indians, meanwhile, have been hard at work on a new generation of long-range missiles of their own. The Agni-5, which is set for a test flight by the end of this year, has a projected range of 5,000 to 6,000 kilometers -- meaning that it would be able to hit even the northernmost of China's cities. The Indians are also conducting sea trials of their first ballistic missile submarine, the Arihant, which could be ready for deployment within another year or two.

It is undoubtedly true that the two countries mainly have other potential enemies in mind. China is primarily concerned about deterring potential attacks by the world's leading nuclear power, the United States, while India's strategic calculations focus on the threat from Pakistan. Yet strategic logic is creating the potential for direct friction between Beijing and New Delhi on several fronts. The two countries are already engaged in a naval arms race as they jockey for influence in the waters around South Asia. Tensions have also been mounting over the two countries' border disputes -- especially the one involving the disputed area of Arunachal Pradesh (which is controlled by the Indians). The Indians complain of a rising number of Chinese incursions into the area; a remark by the Chinese ambassador to India a few years ago, when he claimed the territory as China's, stirred up public outrage. The Chinese, who regard Arunachal Pradesh as part of Tibet, worry in turn about a buildup of Indian troops in the region.

Rajeswari Pillai Rajagopalan of the Observer Research Foundation in New Delhi notes one concern. Starting in 2007, the Chinese military began a major upgrade of its missile base near the city of Delingha in Qinghai province, next to Tibet. In addition to the intermediate-range missiles already stationed in the region, Rajagopalan says there are indications the Chinese may have beefed up the force with long-range DF-31s and DF-31As -- thus threatening not only northern India, including Delhi, but targets in the south as well. It's entirely possible, she acknowledges in a 2007 paper, that the Chinese move could be aimed primarily at countering Russian missiles stationed in Siberia, but warns that "what the Chinese may consider a routine exercise may send a wrong signal and have serious implications." For his part, former U.S. diplomat Charles Freeman says that he regards Indian fears of a Chinese nuclear buildup as exaggerated, but worries that a fateful mismatch of perceptions could already be spurring both countries toward a genuine nuclear arms race.

The extent to which the two militaries are getting on each other's nerves became apparent in a bit of high-ranking trash-talking earlier this year. India's chief military science officer, V.K. Saraswat, declared that new advances in his country's ballistic missile technology meant that "as far as cities in China and Pakistan are concerned, there will be no target that we want to hit but can't hit." That prompted a retort from Rear Adm. Zhang Zhaozhong of China's National Defense University, who pointedly derided the "low level" of Indian technology. "In developing its military technology," Zhang said, "China has never taken India as a strategic rival, and none of its weapons were specifically designed to contain India." If that was meant to console anyone south of the border, it doesn't seem to have worked.

The best time to talk about an arms race, of course, is before it really gathers steam. Krishnaswami Subrahmanyam, former chairman of India's National Security Advisory Board, says that China and India should take their nuclear concerns to the Conference on Disarmament, a multilateral negotiating forum at the United Nations. But that, of course, would require the Chinese to acknowledge that there's a problem, which they might not be willing to do. Rajagopalan notes that India and Pakistan have managed to set up some effective confidence-building measures on their common border, but that India and China have yet to do the same (aside from a few stillborn efforts in the early 1990s). Instituting mechanisms to warn each other of pending missile tests might be a start. "I think there's a great need for that," she says. "Otherwise these kinds of tensions can spiral out of control." You can say that again.

RAVEENDRAN/AFP/Getty Images

 

Christian Caryl is a contributing editor to Foreign Policy. His column, "Reality Check," appears weekly on ForeignPolicy.com.

DEPETRIS@WORDPRESS.COM

6:10 PM ET

July 13, 2010

China-India rivalry shows U.S. decline

In many ways, the strategic rivalry between China and India could prove to be an embarrassment for the United States, especially if both countries continue to improve their nuclear weapons programs and continue to research new missile technologies. Not only would an arms buildup have a negative affect on America's declining position in world affairs today (thanks in part to Washington's inability to solve longstanding disputes, like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict), but could also sever President Barack Obama's plan of reducing the value and importance of offensive weapons systems and nuclear weapons.

Over the last three months, the Obama administration has done a number of things to bolster the concept of nuclear nonproliferation. First, the President signed a nuclear treaty with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev in Prague, cutting both countries nuclear arsenal by a third. Next, the President hosted the first-ever nuclear terrorism conference, which drew 47 nations to the United States and which produced a symbolic document underlying the need to lock down dangerous nuclear materials. Next, the White House released a brand new National Security Strategy decreasing the role of nuclear weapons in America's defense establishment. And finally, the U.N.- with pressure from the United States- succeeded in drafting a joint statement explaining the importance of nuclear verification, including the need to expand the powers of the IAEA.

If China and India build up their defense capabilities and nuclear deterrents after all that, it would be a devastating rebuke to the United States. Not only would it complicate Obama's plans for "a world free of nuclear weapons," but it would also show the United States that its power is far short of what it used to be. The U.S. can no longer order other countries around, nor can they dictate terms and conditions states with semi-powerful status (like India, Brazil, Israel, or even Iran). The more China and India grow- both in wealth and prestige- the less leverage Washington will have over in Asia. And that sets a great example for any other state that wants to float away from America's orbit and become more sovereign and independent.

http://www.depetris.wordpress.com

 

MIKEHAWK

7:27 PM ET

August 8, 2010

Another ARMS race?

Oh God,

now even India's getting in the mess of things by joining this arms race...

Michael

 

MIKEHAWK

7:27 PM ET

August 8, 2010

Another ARMS race?

Oh God,

now even India's getting in the mess of things by joining this arms race...

Michael

 

ASHOK2718

8:37 PM ET

July 13, 2010

First, India can't make 500 nukes in 1000 years

Second, suppose the govts do have them, then India wouldn't fire them.
We are too pussy and intelligent to do that.

 

TOMMYT

4:18 PM ET

July 14, 2010

india already has an

india already has an estimated arsenal of between 45-70 from 40 years of research and development. india could have 1000 in 1000 years.

 

ASHOK2718

9:05 PM ET

July 13, 2010

The article is laughable

as everyone knows that it would be a one sided war.

Which has more money ?

Which country's war bonds will be sold out ?

Which country has more enemies ?

Which country may have to fight on not two but may be more fronts ?

Which country is surrounded not by more enemies but by more number of failed states (which blame its failure of the country in Q) ?

Which country would be supported (tacitly or directly) by USA AND Russia ? (not because of ideology but because of economic concerns and an empirical view about one sidedness of the conflict) ?

NUKES Don't matter much these days as I think army victory is not a function of number of nukes

 

SEAN D89

12:56 AM ET

July 14, 2010

India vs China

A full-out war between the two would be a nightmare. I don't know who would come out on top, but regardless, both sides will, for lack of a better term, f*** each other up. It would destabilize all of Asia. Fortunately, I don't think that they will go to war any time soon. Their shared economic interests are too great to sacrifice for some little strip of land. Maybe in like 40 or 50 years, when they are the superpowers. But in the next few years? Not a chance.

.....I hope....

 

QIQI11222

4:48 AM ET

July 14, 2010

www.fashionclothe.com

===== http://www.fashionclothe.com ====

Air jordan(1-24)shoes $30

Handbags(Coach l v f e n d i d&g) $30

Tshirts (Polo ,ed hardy,lacoste) $15

Jean(True Religion,ed hardy,coogi) $30

Sunglasses(Oakey,coach,gucci,A r m a i n i) $15

New era cap $12

Bikini (Ed hardy,polo) $20

accept paypal and free shipping

===== http://www.fashionclothe.com ====

 

MARTINLUSIN1

10:51 AM ET

July 14, 2010

 

WANGYING

10:10 AM ET

July 14, 2010

www.madeshopping.com

Hello,everybody,the good shoping place,the new season approaching, click in. Let's facelift bar!
===== http://www.madeshopping.com ====

Air jordan(1-24)shoes $33

UGG BOOT $50

Nike shox(R4,NZ,OZ,TL1,TL2,TL3) $33

Handbags(Coach lv fendi d&g) $33

Tshirts (Polo ,ed hardy,lacoste) $16

Jean(True Religion,ed hardy,coogi) $30

Sunglasses(Oakey,coach,gucci,Armaini) $12

New era cap $9

Bikini (Ed hardy,polo) $18

FREE SHIPPING

 

SHAWN_SWEET

3:47 PM ET

July 14, 2010

India - China previous fights

I dont know if people are aware that the Indians and the Chinese fought on two occassions before and were very close to clash on another occasion.

In 1962, the chinese attacked India at two points on their shared border. One on the eastern sector and other at western sector. In the eastern sector, the chinese grabbed some Indian territoty in Aksai Chin before the war began which the Indians failed to notice. After the border clashes began, the chinese tried to penetrate further but were defeated by the Indians at the Battle of Chushul.That is where the actual line of control lies at the moment. In the western sector, the chinese line of communications became very thin and became susceptible to Indian counter attacks. To protect their flank, the chinese withdrew soon after from the western sector and declared a ceasefire.

In 1967, two border clashes took place in Nathu la and Chola, both of them in then independent Sikkim territory. China and Sikkim like China and India had border problems.But sikkim being a small country did not have enough resources to protect itself.And as such it concluded a treaty with India where by India was responsible for Sikkim's defence. When the chinese entered Sikkim in 1967, on both the occasions they were defeated by the Indians and the chinese withdrew after suffering casulties.The Sikkimese decided that their future and their culture will be secured under Indian protection and as such in early 1970s, Sikkimese decided to become part of India after a popular referendum.Now Sikkim is one of the states of the Indian republic.

In 1986, there were also a near clash in western sector called as " Sumdorong Chu incident" .As per a previous mutual understanding, Indians and Chinese usually leave their border posts in winter. But in 86, when the Indians return after the winter, they found chinese troop movements on other side. The Indians responded by troop build up of their own. Anticipating a chinese attack, the Indians pre emptively air lifted an entire brigade inside the Chinese claimed territory overlooking their flank which alarmed the chinese. While many analysts predicted another border war, better sense prevailed and both the Indians and Chinese withdrew their troops from offensive positions.

 

KEV1365

5:24 PM ET

July 21, 2010

informative reply

wow, I did not know that China and India fought wars against each other. I actually work at a translation services company and my coworker, who is from India, mentioned to me that his father was in the troops in 1986 and he witnessed everything. It was pretty interesting history, I did not know a lot of these.

 

JSDKFW

6:06 PM ET

July 14, 2010

http://www.vipshopper.us

Hi,Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,Here ( http://www.vipshopper.us ) are the most

popular, most stylish and avant-garde

shoes,handbags,Tshirts, jacket,Tracksuit w

ect...NIKE SHOX,JORDAN SHOES 1-24,AF,DUNK,SB,PUMA

,R4,NZ,OZ,T1-TL3) $35HANDBGAS(COACH,L V, DG, ED

HARDY) $35TSHIRTS (POLO ,ED HARDY, LACOSTE) $16

New to Hong Kong : Winter Dress

--- NHL Jersey Woman $ 30---**** NFL Jersey $30
--- NBA Jersey $ 20 ---**** MLB Jersey $ 35
--- Jordan Six Ring_m $36 ---**** Air Yeezy_m $ 45
--- T-Shirt_m $ 15 ---**** Jacket_m $ 36
--- Hoody_m $ 50 ---**** Manicure Set $ 20
as long as the new and old customers to buy the corresponding product on this site, both a

gift, so stay tuned! !
commodity is credit guarantee, you can rest assured of purchase, akshoe will provide service

for you all, welcome to (http://www.vipshopper.us )

 

ARYABHAT

3:53 AM ET

July 15, 2010

Exactly - Don't even think about it!

No nuclear weapon holder is ever attacked by another one! Else North Korea would have been invaded by now as compared to say Iraq. So don't even think about a Nuke war between China and India, how much ever they may look different then your classic Nato Nuke weapon holders. They may be nationalistic but not crazy.

Also remember that from Israel to Japan, there is only one SECULAR, DEMOCRATIC country for last 60 years. That country is surrounded by hostile neighbourhood. That country, India NEEDS Nukes to survive. Its neighbours use Nukes to threaten - eaither for Terror export or for terrirotial hegemony.

 

GNOSIOFERA

4:04 AM ET

July 15, 2010

There is no nuclear arms race!

Holding nuclear stockpiles acts as a big deterrant to nuclear agression by another similarly empowered country. Besides, I believe the entire arms race is only to prove to the biggest bully in the nuclear arena is. China and India already have many other important issues up their sleeves to sort out. These are the Pak-China nuclear-technology-sharing arrangement, the Arunachal Pradesh border dispute and the commerce/trade oriented disputes between China and India. There's hardly any nuclear arms race directed by either country against the other, or alternately either is only preparing itself from its seemingly more volatile neighbours.

 

BOBCHEN

9:00 AM ET

July 15, 2010

Parallels

The difference in how the Indians and Chinese regard each other on the highest level (i.e. top-ranking military) parallels the situation at the lowest.

A look at the comments of Indian and Chinese on the internet shows this. The Indians are OBSESSED with China, especially the Indian nationalists, whom have an inexhaustible opinion of China's growing influence (and America's decline), China's economy and military, and percieved Chinese conspiracies abroad. I see that even here on FP.

Compare that to Chinese nationalists on the internet, who tend to focus on US and Russia, and to a lesser degree, Japan. Occasionally, you might get an opinion on India, but more than likely it's no more than "Oh yeah, they exist." India doesn't even register on their radar most of the time. You see that as well with the Chinese Admiral.

 

CRAZYPUMPKIN

2:01 PM ET

July 18, 2010

Nonsense

Methinks he doth protest too much. Of course the Chinese are ENTIRELY apathetic towards India; so much so that they have expended huge efforts to fund, arm and support all of India's enemies both foreign and domestic over the decades, strategically and politically encircling them by encouraging as much anti-Indian hostility as possible in all of their neighbours and in the process becoming ultimately the world's worst and most irresponsible nuclear proliferator. You did all that because India is irrelevant to you - not at ALL because you feel threatened by them and compelled to take all steps possible to prevent their development as a global force and keep them bogged down regionally rather than allow them grow to the stage where they can compete with you for Asian dominance and global influence. And of course that's why Chinese like you regularly take the time to post messages on discussion fora like these to pontificate disingenuously about how little you care about the subject of the discussion you've made a special effort to participate in.

One thing that is true about Chinese is that you people have a serious inferiority complex. You're mainly about image and very little about actual substance. This is what will become apparent over the next few decades, to your embarrassment. I look forward to it.

 

CRAZYPUMPKIN

2:01 PM ET

July 18, 2010

Nonsense

Methinks he doth protest too much. Of course the Chinese are ENTIRELY apathetic towards India; so much so that they have expended huge efforts to fund, arm and support all of India's enemies both foreign and domestic over the decades, strategically and politically encircling them by encouraging as much anti-Indian hostility as possible in all of their neighbours and in the process becoming ultimately the world's worst and most irresponsible nuclear proliferator. You did all that because India is irrelevant to you - not at ALL because you feel threatened by them and compelled to take all steps possible to prevent their development as a global force and keep them bogged down regionally rather than allow them grow to the stage where they can compete with you for Asian dominance and global influence. And of course that's why Chinese like you regularly take the time to post messages on discussion fora like these to pontificate disingenuously about how little you care about the subject of the discussion you've made a special effort to participate in.

One thing that is true about Chinese is that you people have a serious inferiority complex. You're mainly about image and very little about actual substance. This is what will become apparent over the next few decades, to your embarrassment. I look forward to it.

 

BOBCHEN

1:11 PM ET

July 19, 2010

PLA leaders see Russia or the

PLA leaders see Russia or the US as their military rivals. Chinese businessmen and elites see the US and Japan as their economic rivals. When Chinese nationalists talk on the internet on rivals, it's always either Russia, Japan or the US. That's not to say that India doesn't fill whatever's left over, or meant as an insult towards Indian pride, but the simple fact that Chinese acknowledge there are bigger fish in the sea. Maybe one day India will catch up enough to China to make them notice more, but right now the Chinese don't view India as more than a strategic pawn used by the US in a game of encirclement. That is just the reality of the situation. I stand by my statements.

Judging by your tone and vernacular I assume you are Indian. I made one post about India. One. And the fact that you blew up at that one comment with barely restrained hostility against "Chinese like me" proves my point.

 

MUSTNOTSLEEP14

9:07 AM ET

July 15, 2010

India needs to focus on

India needs to focus on growing its economy and worry about military dominance later. India has several things neither Pakistan nor China has, namely democracy (albeit flawed) and the rule of law (also flawed). The Indians should strengthen their civil institutions, lessen bureaucracy and allow their economy to expand by leaps and bounds. They already have the nuclear deterrent and China would not be foolish enough to invade India and risk nuclear war in the modern age. India is better served appropriating the money elsewhere.

 

GOLDENSELLER01

9:03 AM ET

July 16, 2010

accept paypal,http://www.golden-seller.com,brand sunglasses,gucc

accept paypal,High quality,competitive price, fast delivery
http://www.golden-seller.com
underwear $4.99
caps $6.99
Sunglass $11.99
Purse: $11.99
Necklace $12.99
Bracelet $12.99
Jersey $19.99
handbag $33.99
Bikini $19.99
http://www.golden-seller.com
golden_seller01@hotmail.com

 

GOLDENSELLER01

9:07 AM ET

July 16, 2010

accept paypal,www.fromaaa.com,ck underwear,brand underwear,fashi

http://www.fromaaa.com
Newest fashion style of Newest fashion style of sport shoes, jackets, underwear,NHL, NFL, MLB, NBA Jerseys. sunglasses,wallets,boots,rings,necklace,bikinis,boots,dress shoes,high heel shoes,jeans,t-shirt,outfit,hot underwear,swimsuit,rings,necklace,belts,purse,handbags,caps,scarf
fromaaa@hotmail.com
http://www.fromaaa.com

 

MYCHINANET.COM

4:17 PM ET

July 18, 2010

I have a huge question about your credibility????

"In January China shot down one of its own satellites with a missile -- once again demonstrating"

where is the original source? So far I can't find any source but your article.

 

SHAREIQ

6:18 AM ET

July 22, 2010

Why does China and Pakistan have problems with the entire world

Pakistan a permanent place in the failed state index , a perennial source of terrorism in the world, and China the MOST irresponsible nuclear weapons state in the world, are one of the main reasons why there exists so many problems in the subcontinent. Look at the countries China and Pakistan support, China supports and puts its weight around North Korea, Pakistan, who recognised Taliban in Afghanistan, two of the worst kind of governance the world has ever seen. Pakistan and China has been the WORST proliferators in the ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons area and they continue to do so. Why would a communist country support a dysfunctional country like Pakistan, they must have something in common. China is known more for its VETO's in the UNSC and Pakistan for causing migraine to most of the free world. No wonder both countries are perceived as dangerous and look up with a sense of suspicion by the entire western and free world. By the way Aurangzeb Khan, was one of the most barbaric, suppressive and nut case of a rule , who sought to bring about Taliban type of rule in India , which was never allowed to take shape. And India is NOT A HINDU state, its impossible for any narrow minded person from Pakistan to accept. War is fought and won on logistics , China and India have a lot to loose and they won't get into any war . Pakistan a failed state, a state sponsor of terrorism, has been negotiating with a gun on its head, would be hard pressed to pull the trigger , and that's what we need to worry. India has its problems, so does China. Pakistan has been adrift since its inception, and it itself doesn't know how would it crash and into what, before it sinks!