The Ministry of Oil Defense

It's not polite to say so, but if Americans understood just how many trillions their military was really spending on protecting oil, they wouldn't stand for it.

BY PETER MAASS | AUGUST 5, 2010

Shortly after the Marines rolled into Baghdad and tore down a statue of Saddam Hussein, I visited the Ministry of Oil. American troops surrounded the sand-colored building, protecting it like a strategic jewel. But not far away, looters were relieving the National Museum of its actual jewels. Baghdad had become a carnival of looting. A few dozen Iraqis who worked at the Oil Ministry were gathered outside the American cordon, and one of them, noting the protection afforded his workplace and the lack of protection everywhere else, remarked to me, "It is all about oil."

The issue he raised is central to figuring out what we truly pay for a gallon of gas. The BP spill in the Gulf of Mexico has reminded Americans that the price at the pump is only a down payment; an honest calculation must include the contamination of our waters, land, and air. Yet the calculation remains incomplete if we don't consider other factors too, especially what might be the largest externalized cost of all: the military one. To what extent is oil linked to the wars we fight and the more than half-trillion dollars we spend on our military every year? We are in an era of massive deficits, so it pays to know what we are paying for and how much it costs.

The debate often hovers at a sandbox level of did-so/did-not. Donald Rumsfeld, the former defense secretary, insisted the invasion of Iraq had "nothing to do with oil." But even Alan Greenspan, the former Federal Reserve chairman, rejected that line. "It is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows," Greenspan wrote in his memoir. "The Iraq war is largely about oil." If it is even partly true that we invade for oil and maintain a navy and army for oil, how much is that costing? This is one of the tricky things about oil, the hidden costs, and one of the reasons we are addicted to the substance -- we don't acknowledge its full price.

If we wish to know, we can. An innovative approach comes from Roger Stern, an economic geographer at Princeton University who in April published a peer-reviewed study on the cost of keeping aircraft carriers in the Persian Gulf from 1976 to 2007. Because carriers patrol the gulf for the explicit mission of securing oil shipments, Stern was on solid ground in attributing that cost to oil. He had found an excellent metric. He combed through the Defense Department's data -- which is not easy to do because the Pentagon does not disaggregate its expenditures by region or mission -- and came up with a total, over three decades, of $7.3 trillion. Yes, trillion.

And that's just a partial accounting of peacetime spending. It's far trickier to figure out the extent to which America's wars are linked to oil and then put a price tag on it. But let's assume that Rumsfeld, in an off-the-record moment of retirement candor, might be persuaded to acknowledge that the invasion of Iraq was somewhat related to oil. A 2008 study by Nobel Prize-winner Joseph Stiglitz and Harvard University budget expert Linda Bilmes put the cost of that war -- everything spent up to that point and likely to be spent in the years ahead -- at a minimum of $3 trillion (and probably much more). Again, trillion.

ALI AL-SAADI/AFP/Getty Images

 

Peter Maass, a contributing writer to the New York Times Magazine, is the author of Crude World: The Violent Twilight of Oil, which is being published in paperback this month.

AVNER STEIN

12:06 AM ET

August 6, 2010

^^^^Arab sockpuppet

"If Israel does not start to actively make peace with their neighbors, ending the settlements, occupations, and hostilities completely, their security in the region will truly be in peril, without the US to save them from their every self manufactured disaster."

You start off good before you go on some state department blame-Israel rant.

the reality is Israel defeated the Arab states in 3 consecutive conflicts before the US entered the conflict And you're right - we support Israel because of oil. Arab's were constantly using their oil (which we found) as leverage against the West and Israel. Once the US decided to arm Israel, the Arab's gave up and the boycott has been on pause for about 35 years.

Good for USA!

As far as peace goes - please. Israel could have converted the Arab states to a radioactive desert. ISRAEL NEGOTIATES, ISRAEL GIVES UNILATERAL CONCESSIONS!

ISRAEL DOES MORE FOR ITS ENEMIES THAN WE EVER HAVE IN OUR HISTORY!

When I see leftist trolls mock Israel and accuse it of being arrogant, I say look in the mirror. We don't tolerate the shit Israel does. We bomb countries thousands of miles away. We fought in 8 wars since Israel's indepence killing millions of people, how can Americans seriously judge Israel - a country that subjects itself to hundreds of suicide bombings under some bogus peace process?

And how can any "balanced view" seriously infer the Arab states have been victimized and Israel has failed to win their affection? As if Israel could somehow satisfy the backwardness of the Arab tribes - outside of killing itself?

God the left are foolish. Go move to fucking Arabia if they're so righteous. Israel is an historic ally. I wish we would behave more like it, maybe we would stop invading countries and supporting Islamic apartheid states.

 

HAYDENHARNET

12:27 PM ET

August 9, 2010

what a shame . we turn Arabic

what a shame . we turn Arabic countries to desert for oil , is that what we want?
after a moment , defense minister show up and talk half an hour about Suicide Bombing .
then we call Taliban,Hizbollah,Hamas terrorists because they defend they countries.
in 10 years we loose two wars Iraq and Afghanistan .
Alias like Israel will bring us to hell routers home

 

AVNERSWINE

9:08 PM ET

August 17, 2010

Give it up Avner

Give it up Avner. The zionists are finished. In a year or two or three, there will be elections by all of the residents and returnees in a free Palestine and the racist regime will be extinguished just like what happened in South Africa.

Israel is no loyal ally to the US, and the American people are beginning to realize this. All the paid propaganda in the world is no more than lipstick on a pig.

You and your zionist friends will still be welcome in Palestine, just as the Boers are welcome in South Africa. As equals, not as betters. There is no place anymore for apartheid, certainly not in the middle east.

 

MJ234

2:17 PM ET

August 18, 2010

who cares?

"As far as peace goes - please. Israel could have converted the Arab states to a radioactive desert"

OK, so, as you say, Israel is modern, democratic, nuclear nation. Why should the US and Europe keep sending billions in aid to Israel every year and give Israel special status for travel, economic, and military collaboration? The US has paid more in Israel-related aid since 1945 than Germany has paid in reparations. What benefit are we getting for all that money? Why should the US continue to antagonize all these oil-rich Arab nations by giving special support to Israel?

 

AVNER STEIN

2:41 AM ET

August 6, 2010

A not so balanced view

"Israel runs the worlds only violently enforced colonial settler movement, in direct violation of the Geneva conventions. It has attempted to annex the land of Egypt, Palestine, Lebanon and Syria. It has literally laid waste to Lebanon on several occasions. For these and other reasons, it is despised by most of it's neighbors, not in small part because these behaviors persist right up to this day."

Really, Israel runs the worlds only violently enforced colonial settler movement? You mean Australia, USA, New Zealand, Kenya...and, oh - I don't know, the Arab world..perhaps, top the charts for most violently enforced "colonial" settler conflict?

~~~~~

You describe Israel as if it is some empire or pariah state. It is pretty obvious Israel is despised because it is loaded with Jews and refuses to sell itself to become part of the pan-Arab nationalist separatist movement. By "laid waste" I think you mean response to conflicts started by its neighbors. The Arab start wars, they lose wars. Good luck selling Israel's enemies as passive victims.

The way the Arab's make demands you think they won 5 consecutive conflicts.

Anymore buzzwords?

"However you would like to interpret that does not really matter in the context of what I am saying; What matters is what the nations surrounding Israel think, and that will matter a great deal more when the US no longer really cares what happens to Israel. That day will come when oil is supplanted by some other mix of energy sources, which might take several decades, or maybe less than a decade. It really depends upon innovation and drive."

So you demonize Israel and victimize its indefensible, apartheid enemies who have killed millions since their independence (Hama massacre, Yemen Civil War, Jordanian-Palestinian conflict, etc...), and now dubiously say this is why no one cares about Israel.

No one cares about Israel because it is an obstacle to oil. The nations surrounding Israel are mostly under the US defense umbrella - except for Syria and Iran. Take a lesson in Israel history 1948-1967 and you'll see how long the West jerked it around well before any "Jewish lobby" existed.

"TRULY hope that by the time oil goes south, Israel has made allies of their neighbors by abandoning the settlements and occupation and returning the lands taken from Syria and Lebanon, while resisting the urge to periodically bomb Syria back into the stone age as some sort of horrific collective punishment that has only ever succeeded in inflaming the sort of hatred against Israel that helped spark the border skirmish that recently occurred. "

Since this conflict predates any "settlements" and "occupation" it is a tough sell that an "end" to the "occupation" would somehow bring peace. More delusional chomsky propaganda - Israel has wronged the arab states and it must right them.

Well tough titties, the Arab states start wars and they lose. They lose land. Arab's confiscated Jewish land 4x the size of Israel and you don't see Israel whining about it. Israel pulled out of Lebanon and Gaza and were reward with more conflict. Unilateral actions create unilateral reactions. You refuse to accept Arab belligerence (in fact, in your post you don't even say Arab, rather - "neighbors") which is precisely why this conflict continues. There's not much Israel can do to please an enemy that wants it gone.

About time we put pressure on our Arab oil allies, but don't expect that to happen. Maybe pressure the Arab League to stop supporting Islamists in Sudan that have exterminated 300,000 dinkas. Stop supporting Lebanon until it gives its Palestinian minority full rights instead of keeping them in camps and denying them basic social services.

But no, the left is more outraged by Jews living in the desert. Yes, Jews, oh. excuse me - "settlements" - yes, that is why the Middle East is so fucked.

Not countries entrenched in the 7th century.

 

ABLITZ

3:59 PM ET

August 6, 2010

Somehow this has turned into

Somehow this has turned into a bashing Israel topic. Why? I have no clue.

It's funny how so many call Israel a "pariah" state and how everyone is "appalled" by Israel's behavior. Now I don't agree with everything Israel does and there certainly are moral questions when it comes to some of its policies (as there are in Afghanistan and Iraq), but your rant is just ridiculous "balanced view".

Turkey:
- Armenian Genocide which is not officially recognized as a genocide by many because of Turkish lobbying and for the fear of poor relations (slowly starting to change).

- Occupies North Cyprus illegally (yes according to the UN) yet we never hear of it.
-Has killed more Kurds than Israelis have killed Palestinians this year that's for sure. And constantly violates Iraq's sovereignty to do so.

Sudan:
-All the Arab and Muslim leaders who care so much about the Palestinian people seem to think it's perfectly acceptable to shield Omar Al-Bashir from genocide charges from the ICC.

-Hundreds of thousands of Darfurians are dead due in large part to Bashir's control and support of militias who have raped and pillaged across Darfur in order to terrorize those there.

-South Sudan will soon once again become a war zone once Bashir refuses to recongize it's independence and invades the Oil Belt region to secure the oil field there. 2 million have died in conflict there since the state's inception but the second incarnation of the war saw Bashir brutally bomb the South killing hundreds of thousands.
-Apparently Bashir used to keep Southerners as slaves and would use them as footrests.

Lebanon: Palestinians have less rights in Lebanon than they do in the occupied territories. Can't own land, have jobs or leave the refugee camps in Lebanon without specific permits. Sounds very similar to Israel actually except Palestinans used to and still do a smaller extent work in Israel and Israeli Arabs (20% of the population) have full citizenship with voting privileges although admittedly Palestinians don't have those rights in the territories they also don't want citizenship in Israel.

Jordan: Killed about 20,000 or so Palestinians during Black September and expelled the
PLO and many Palestinians. No one seems to remember this.

Iran:
- Just watch a video of someone being stoned to death and tell me this nation has higher moral ground than Israel.

Rwanda:
-After the genocide, Kagame has oppressed all opposition. Killed and imprisoned those who oppose him. Supported by U.S. and other Western powers.
-Invaded DRC twice. Destabilized the Eastern part of the country and supported rebel groups that have contineed to rape and pillage the area for resources.
Estimated death toll: 5-7 million. Highest since World War II.

I mean I could go on, but what's the point?
I could also say that Israel is the only country in the region that doesn't kill, beat, or torture Sudanese, Eritrean, and Congolese refugees. There is no policy from the government on what to do with these people but NGOs in Israel have stepped up to treat them humanely and try to integrate some of them. Ask a Dafurian refugee what he thinks of Israel after he is being shot at by Egyptian guards until an Israeli soldier helps him across the border and tells him they won't shoot him here. By the way, most of these refugees are Muslims, but since they're Black the Egyptians hate them.

So who is the pariah? Who is such a terrible nation in this world? Why pay so much attention to Israel and talk about it so hatefully? Of course call a spade a spade when human rights abuses are taking place But tell me why is it such a terrible morally apprehensible entity in your eyes when it's in a region filled with so much guilt?

And by the way, you assertion that once alternative energy becomes reliable no one will help is Israel does not make sense logically considering Israel is one of the leaders in developing "Green" technology. I guess they're just hastening their own demise.

 

MJ234

2:28 PM ET

August 18, 2010

again, who cares?

"It's funny how so many call Israel a "pariah" state and how everyone is "appalled" by Israel's behavior."

I'm not appalled by Israel's behavior; I have no basis for judging it. I would just like my government not to send billions of dollars to a single small nation in the ME, and I would like my government not to send weapons into a conflict zone. There are plenty of other small, struggling democracies that are far more in need of help and where our aid and support could be spent more effectively.

 

MJ234

10:23 PM ET

August 18, 2010

"Look again... all these

"Look again... all these people are criticizing is the double standards. Israel can and will survive without US aid just like it did 1948-73."

You don't know your history. The US has been giving direct aid to Israel since the 50's. More importantly, the US has been responsible for speedy and large reparations payments from Germany to Israel, as well as extensive shipments of military hardware and infrastructure from Germany to Israel. Without continuous direct and indirect US aid and support, Israel wouldn't exist today.

"Stop beating a dead horse, no one is trying to argue the case for aid."

If "nobody" is arguing for it, why do billions in aid flow each year from the EU and the US to Israel? Why do billions in weapons shipments go to Israel every year from the EU and the US?

"Only arguing against incessant israel bashers who are hypocrites for throwing around words like "apartheid" when Arabs citizens of Israel have full rights, and Israel is the freest nation in the whole fucking region. Can a gay person come out in any other nation in the area? Yes, but only to be put to death with lashings and stonings."

Israel may be inhabited by magical fairies and gold-shitting unicorns for all I care; what difference does that make to me?

The US has more than enough domestic problems to worry about than to spend money on, or stick out its neck, over Israel.

 

HSCHMIDT

11:17 AM ET

August 6, 2010

Good point, but...

... these numbers are quite easy to figure out. On the other hand, consider what oil does for you. Pretty much half of everything these days, including the case and each key of my computer, is made from oil.

It is probably reasonable to say that oil actually made the progress we have made in the last 50 years possible. Oil is a miraculous resource, unmatched by anything we have.

Imagine what would have happened if the USA actually didn't try to secure the oil supply. My guess is that the cost of NOT spending trillions on military and other oil protective measures would be at least 50% of US GDP, which means a nice figure of 150 trillion dollars. After all, shooting up some remote places for oil has been a good deal so far.

 

WANO

2:40 PM ET

August 6, 2010

<> How sad that anyone can

<>

How sad that anyone can think about killing people as a good deal. Does a significant pecentage of American public think this way? What an evil people.

 

CLAZY8

11:34 AM ET

August 7, 2010

made from oil

Oil is used almost entirely to produce energy. The amount used to produce produce petrochemicals (plastics etc) is about 2%. Here are figures for the US: http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_cons_psup_dc_nus_mbbl_m.htm

 

HAYDENHARNET

9:00 AM ET

August 8, 2010

let's imagine also that we

let's imagine also that we live in iraq , probably all our family is dead , our goal:to survive
I assume that the situation before iraq invasion is much more better than now ,
all scientists being killed every day, terrorist attack , the USA with a foolish president has brought death to that country, wireless router reviews .

 

JOEAVERAGE

10:03 AM ET

August 10, 2010

There are other plastics...

We might use oil as a source for the raw materials of plastics but there are other ways to make plastics from Soybeans for example.

Without a doubt I would give up the oil derived plastics we use today if we could minimize our oil consumption in America.

 

HABANERO

10:59 AM ET

August 11, 2010

.

Wano:

"How sad that anyone can think about killing people as a good deal. Does a significant pecentage of American public think this way? What an evil people."

Evil yes, but only before we've had our morning coffee.

 

ZORRO

5:33 PM ET

August 6, 2010

Military Expenditure per Gallon

Assuming 10 trillion $ over 40 years the cost breaks down to 250 billion $ per year.
Last year the US used 137 billion gallons of gasoline (http://www.eia.doe.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=gasoline_use).
So if the military expenditure were to be financed by a tax on gasoline the tax would be 1.82 $.
Since the annual US defense expenditure is (in the order of) 750 billion $/year the 250 billion $/year figure seems high, but even a lesser figure would make the hidden cost of gasoline higher than I thought. Before making the calculation I would have guessed at less than 1 cent/gallon.

"A Balanced View" & Avner Stein: I'm sure there are some site "IhateIloveIsrael.com" where you could debate Israel instead.

 

ZORRO

4:50 AM ET

August 7, 2010

I Think

I think that US support of Israel, which might have started out as realpolitik, has now been upgraded to a US core interest by the American right (for purely emotional reasons).
Should oil become much less relevant (like because of a breakthrough with fusion) I expect that this would affect the US support of Israel only in the very long term.
Thus I think that raising the Israel question is completely irrelevant in this context.
In fact, considering how locked the discussions about Israel/Palestine are, I'm not sure that that question is relevant to discuss at all ;)

 

HABANERO

10:57 PM ET

August 6, 2010

The best source on this subject...

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http://www.amazon.com/Prize-Epic-Quest-Money-Power/dp/6302606640

I recorded this on VHS- now it is sold on Amazon for $900.00

Anyone want to make me an offer LOL ;)

 

AVNER STEIN

1:35 AM ET

August 7, 2010

"settlements"

I have no problem at all with Green line Israel, and neither does the rest of the world. MOST people hate the settlements, but not quite as much as Israels neighbors, who will bring chaos down upon them the day we up and leave.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The settlements are irrelevant. I find it amusing that you are most outraged by "settlements" than blatant aggression from US-supported Lebanese armies and Palestinians.

We boost Israel's enemies, than blame Israel when it dares to respond.

Oh, but it's those darn settlements that are the problem - even though this war predates the settlements by about 80 years. What was the cause then? Israel's settlements in Tel Aviv?

It's pretty clear to me the settlements are merely a lightening rod first used by the Islamists and now parroted by the left to divert from the unfortunate fact that the Arabs will never make peace with Arab because they never have been expected to.

Every international state sees Israel as the occupier and the Arab world - 23 states, 11 million square kilometers - as a victim to its existence.

Israel's presence in the WB does not promote conflict. It ends it. IT left Gaza and uprooted 8,000 of its citizens and got more terrorism. It left Lebanon and got a US-supported LAF that protects Hezbollah from Israel. It continues to trade off more territory with the PLO in the West Bank, but even they need to be supervised because their security apparatus is unreliable.

But when the shit hits the fan - the world will blame Israel and ignore the warnings before.

The problem with media outside of Israel is that Americans and Europeans don't want to be blamed for anything. Do Americans want to see their government as imperialist - empowing Arab states, arming them, protecting them in the UN as they wage war against each other and Israel?

No - they want to blame Israel, the "settlements", etc.

It's the only way to cope with reality. Europe has been corrupted by Arab oil and yet Robert Fisk continues to write about how Israel has infiltrated the EU and wants to take it over.

Everything is a conspiracy.

Don't get all butthurt when I prove you wrong unbalanced view.

 

AVNER STEIN

2:00 AM ET

August 8, 2010

Settlements?

What is with you and the settlements?

How is that somehow linked with its relationship with the Arab states? One more settlement is one less Palestinian home to store rockets. Soon the whole West Bank will be settled and there will be no more land left for a palestinian state. they all would have to move to Gaza.

What then?

 

AVNER STEIN

7:28 PM ET

August 8, 2010

So?

So what if Israel is an apartheid state? How does that have any effect vis-vis USA and UN? Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, and Syria are all apartheid states - special rights and rules for the majority, subjugation for the minority, women, jews, kurds, etc. In Lebanon Palestinians can't even enter the country in spite of being 10% of the population.

Settlements does not = ethnic cleansing. NO Arab homes are being bulldozed to build settlements on. Virtually all of the settlements are built on land that is either unclaimed or Palestinian owned, but never ON the homes of Arab states.

In fact, the settlements are built by the Palestinians themselves, and generate over 300 million in the West Bank economy. Palestinians love the settlements, only a minority oppose the construction freeze, while the leadership uses the settlements as a lightening rod even though Oslo 1 and Oslo 2 both saw the settlements as part of the peace process not an obstacle to it.

Israel reduced settlement construction by 90% after Oslo 1. Under Netanyahu it froze settlements for 18 months. Palestinians won't even negotiate, they want all their demands met before the negotiations begin.

You seriously think Israeli settlements are the problem here?

You are delusional.

 

BIMBACH

7:40 AM ET

August 7, 2010

"Iraq war was about oil" doesn't wash

1. Of course the U.S. Naval presence in the Gulf is specifically to ensure that oil flows freely throug the Straits of Hormuz and it is logical that the cost of this presence be counted as the cost of "using oil".

2. How did you get to work today; and how did the food in your house get from the farm to the market? Even when factoring the military cost of protecting oil supplies, oil has the physics of energy cost vs. output on its side. Is there a cheaper way to move a ton of anything 10 miles - the market tells us "no" every day.

3. I don't understand how the Iraq war can be called a "war for oil". If the goal was to insure production and supply of oil from Iraq the most logical path would be to come to some understanding with Saddam about staying within his boundries and in return letting him massacre as many of his people as he saw fit while lifting the UN sanctions on the country. What you don't do is invade the country knowing that the oil production infastructure would at least interrupted in the process if not severely damaged; and even put the supply of oil from other countries in the region at risk. The conclusion that EVERY military engagement in the Middle East is secretly related to oil production is lazy thinking.

 

GUY HARDROCK

1:35 PM ET

August 8, 2010

"War for Oil"..???

You've got it 100% correct, Bimbach...

I work in the international oil industry, and have yet to see ANY so-called "reporter" explain - even in general terms - exactly (1.) WHAT we hope to gain in this "war for oil", (2.) HOW we might exploit our advantage (assuming there is a plausible answer to the WHAT question), or (3.) WHY going to war is the best/only way to achieve this objective...

Public ignorance of the oil and gas industry is off the charts - the media coverage of the recent Gulf of Mexico oil spill illustrates that as nothing else ever could... The average reporter would appear to have received most of his industry knowledge via Jed Clampett and "The Beverly Hillbillies", sad to say...

 

ZT

7:22 PM ET

August 9, 2010

Not to mention, only about 4%

Not to mention, only about 4% of our oil imports come from Iraq. (http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html)

So accourding to the Iraq oil conspiracy theory, the "big bad oil lobby" was able to pull enough strings to throw us into one of our longest wars ever, but wasn't able to fight the hippies who limit offshore drilling, which would have given us access to at least a similar amount. Not to mention, if our foreign policy were driven by monied interests, why'd we have all those crippling sanctions on Iraq (or Cuba) to begin with?

 

SALLAMADALLAMA

8:51 AM ET

August 7, 2010

us military

Arguments are very useful to share. I will follow your site . thanks a lot siki?

 

ADMIRAL

10:20 AM ET

August 9, 2010

Obvious

The ruling class will deny it to the bitter end. Yawn.

 

KHAN SAHIB

10:39 PM ET

August 9, 2010

We don't need no ruling class

The so called elite are dumb as a door nail and the emperor certainly wears no clothes.

Lets start calling the DoD with its rightful name Department of Offense or Department of Oil Defense; at least that way the American soldiers would clearly know why they are shedding their blood and the blood of millions of innocent that they have killed, tortured, maimed and displaced from their homes.

lalqila.wordpress.com

 

JOEAVERAGE

10:23 AM ET

August 10, 2010

We could be consuming much less already!

I recommend that everyone look up the RAV4-EV. It goes 100-125 miles per charge. It has heat and a/c. Some of the NiMH batteries have lasted 170,000 miles so far. You can drive it 1000 miles for about the same amount of electricity as a refrigerator. Toyota leased them and then decided to sell off the leased RAVs rather than crush them like GM did with their electric car in 2002.

This isn't like cars running on water or promises of 100 mpg using a special carburetor nobody has ever seen. This is a real car that has been running around for eight years now.

Some people charge them with rooftop solar.

The problem is that Chevron holds the patents to the battery tech. Panasonic was making the RAV4-EV battery when Chevron acquired the patent and sued Toyota/Panasonic to the tune of $30M to make them stop making the NiMH battery used in the RAV4-EV.

There is alot more information about these vehicles and the peculiar situation of Chevron withholding the battery technology available on the web. If anyone wants more, let me know.

 

A BALANCED VIEW

9:20 PM ET

August 15, 2010

WOW. They deleted my account,

WOW. They deleted my account, and every comment I have ever made here, apparently simply for suggesting the the "special relationship" is only as special as our need for cheap oil, and that the day that we no longer need oil on a national security level, we will abandon the Middle east in the same way that we have abandoned Africa.

We have 10s of millions more african americans than we do People of Jewish descent, and we do NOTHING for Africa, even under the most horrific circumstances. WHY? No oil.

Anyone who thinks that we will spend what it takes to keep our current presence in the Middle east after oil, ONLY for Israels sake is sadly mistaken.

It is literally Trillions, and we will not even spend Billions On Israel after oil.

How they fare after oil depends entirely on what they do now. If they make peace with their neighbors, (return all occupied territory and abandon all settlements,) they may have a shot at being part of the solution after the middle east melts down into crisis after oil is no longer that valuable (a few dollars a barrel or less). OR they will become the white hot focus of massive paranoia and hatred for an entire region that is in panic as their one valuable export becomes worthless. It is entirely up to the Israeli people NOW to make the right decision about a situation that is virtually inevitable.

I wonder, Will my second account be annihilated for offering this appraisal of the inevitable? I do wish Israel well, and hope they make the right choices.

 

FRENCHFR1

3:58 AM ET

August 18, 2010

are u sure its for oil

Its hard to tell why wars are started? Can anyone really show proof that it was because of oil? just my 2 cents.. Tom

 

MJ234

2:01 PM ET

August 18, 2010

if only it were that simple

The majority of the oil from the Middle East is going to Europe and Asia. The US is in the ME for oil, but not primarily for domestic oil. Without ME oil, the economies of Europe and Asia would collapse. In the end, the US is in the ME for the same reason it is in Europe and Asia: to ensure a prosperous first world.

Unfortunately, this situation has deteriorated to the point where the US has become a mercenary for Europe and Asia... an unpaid one. Europe and Asia are being protected by US troops and have their oil supply secured by US troops, but they don't pay anywhere near what it costs to maintain the military and bases around the world. At the same time, Europe and Asia can use the money they save on their own militaries for infrastructure and education.

 

A BALANCED VIEW

7:48 PM ET

August 19, 2010

I think you are wrong. It is

I think you are wrong. It is about overall availability for market demand, and the effect that has on price. Throw a grenade near a refinery in some oil producing nation, and the price, around the world, goes up as the result of that one incident.

Threaten to shut down gulf traffic, and the price soars. SHUT DOWN gulf traffic, and the price triples or quadruples. the destination of any particular barrel of oil is of no matter whatsoever. It is about supply in general, and an interruption of gulf traffic would give the traders in the world market all the ammo they would need to send the price up to about $500 per barrel.

Iran would have little trouble applying enough pressure to keep the threat of closure high for quite a while, and the actual cost of STOPPING them militarily would be VERY high and difficult to put an end to.

If inspired to fight a guerrilla war in the gulf, Iran could send world oil to the stars, and keep it there for quite a while, and we would have to spend hundreds of billions we do not have just to begin to quash the problem, while our nation reels in a oil price induced major depression.

 

JOHN APPLE

2:04 PM ET

August 18, 2010

Pathetic

Regarding other dumbly obvious notes, water is wet, the sky is blue, and, surprise, politicians lie. On the scale of important things in any industrial society, only the availability of food outranks the need for oil. Consider it a small miracle and a huge public service that the US is willing to spend this much on protecting the oil supply for the sake of the entire world. You should ask yourself what other nations/people would be willing to do so - historically, nations have been conquered and their inhabitants sold into slavery for less strategic reasons than the availability of oil.

To Wano: if you think Americans are so evil, you should try hanging out with the various other people who consider us their enemy. I'm sure you will enjoy their hospitality and generosity. Of course, you may also find out that we make excellent bullets and bombs, courtesy of all that petroleum.

 

YARINSIZ

11:37 AM ET

September 4, 2010

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