...what the hell did you expect ? When Americans were running from Vietnam they left a mess also. i think some of US leaders should pick up a textbook again.

"Since the occupation began in 2003, more than 70,000 Iraqis have been killed. Many more have been injured. There are millions of new widows and orphans."
Surely the first sentence conflicts with the last? 70,000 dead doesn't make 1,000,000 widows and orphans.

First I would like to commend Mr. Rosen for his excellent analysis on the intracies of Iraqi politics. The regional dynamics are complex, and this provides a great explanation. However, I do take issue with this part:

" The lack of services means the government will face street-level dissatisfaction and become harsher and more dictatorial in response -- even if a democratic façade persists."

There is an astounding lack of services in Iraq, with barley 50 per cent of people receiving electricity. However, during the protests this year, the government did not crack down - but lo and behold, the Iraqi energy minister resigned! (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/world/middleeast/22iraq.html) Imagine that - a public servant can't deliver, and yields to popular demands for his resignation! What a harsh, dictatorial response!

There are many issues that will continue to plague Iraqi politicans. However, there is also a lot that has been accomplished in terms of development and democratization that often goes overlooked.

Perhaps some valid information here, but a better article is here:

Victory in Iraq

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htwin/articles/20100907.aspx

Casualty count is bad too.

"About 100,000 Iraqi civilians died, but over a third of these were members of terrorist groups (mostly Sunni, including al Qaeda). Another ten percent were members of various anti-terrorist militias. The U.S. tried to identify as many dead enemy fighters as it could, but those numbers are currently classified. Based on information that did leak out, it's clear that the terrorist groups lost over 30,000 people. Most of the civilians were killed by terrorists, most of the terrorist deaths were caused by American troops."

(from:

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htwin/20100830.aspx

The author claims that Iraq does not have full sovereignty due to the Status of Forces agreement and the lingering UN sanctions. I would argue that no country that participates in the global economy has full sovereignty. Certainly none of the EU members have the sort of Vattelian sovereignty for which the author pines.

The Iraqis are sovereign. They are recognized as a sovereign state by the international community. They have the final say regarding policies within their borders. They have some ability to guard their own borders. They can sign agreements (like the SOFA) as a de jure member of the international system.

While there is a mess remaining, waiting for the author's "full sovereignty" metric to be achieved tells us nothing about the condition of the Iraqi state.

the iraq war is just another example of continious american stupidity. first it was america who put sadam in power, then it was america who gave sadam all his lethal weapons (whichy they would go and whine about later on) during the iran-iraq war.then during the first gulf war when the shias and kurds stood up and were ready to take on sadam with the U.S' encouragement and help, the americans ran home to their mommies and left the shias and kurds to be slaughtered by sadam. so while the americans were back home getting drunk in their trailer parks, sadaam went on an murder spree. this time the americans stupidly invaded iraq based in lies and about WMD and links to al-qaeda. although they caught sadam looked what they did afterward. they left iraq to be raped by al-qaeda, iran, saudi arabia. they looted iraqs museums and palaces and they freed every criminal in iraq from the prisons. this report pretty much sums up what iraq is now. i hope one day the iraqis pay back the americans for wha they did to them.

the real hero of the iraq was the jounralist who threw his shoes at george bush. those shoes were not only throw and bush but all of america.

This was a war that should never have been fought, an occupation that should never have been undertaken, a half-assed effort at nation-building that once again proves that you cannot build a 'nation' without the spirited consent and cooperation of the people.

All the debate over how many Iraqis were killed is a sad reminder that the US was not as interested in Iraqi freedom, individual rights and sovereignty as it was interested in western hegemony.

We will see in the coming years the pitiful results of our own arrogance and short-sightedness. It is very unlikely that any real government can be formed without the Sadrists, and we ignore them; the Kurdish people will be abandonned to their fate, either at the hands of the majority Shiite or the Turks, and their dream of an autonomous Turkish state will be lost as well. Iran is very likely to be the biggest winner in all of this, as their influence in the Middle East grows, and their ability to cause mischief expands.

We encouraged 'democracy' in Iran, but will ignore the results of any election that does not produce a government to our liking. We will be lucky to get out without further embarrasment. Many in the US probably believe the Iraqis should be grateful that we rid them of Saddam and his brutal henchment. Last week, I heard an Iraqi street vendor tell an interviewer that Iraq needed a strongman "like Saddam, but better".

This war that was going to be fought on the cheap, "paid for with Iraqi oil" (Rumsfeld - what a joke), to expose Saddam's treachery to the world, has cost not just 4400 US lives and many more injured, but probably will cost US taxpayers close to a trillion $ when all the costs are paid. The allegations that there were WMD and that al Qaeda was somehow allied to the Iraqi leadership have been exposed as the biggest frauds ever perpetrated to justify a military adventure. 2011 and the removal of the remainder of our troops cannot possibly come soon enough.

Yes, we are probably leaving behind a mess. That's what conquerors do when they tire of their conquests. If Iraq is to become a better nation, time for its people to get of their asses and make it so. We are (hopefully) done!

Nir Rosen
You mention the Sadrists often but never mention their leader (nor that of the Kurds). I realize space is limited, but are we to assume Muqtada al-Sadr is out of the picture completely? Last I heard here in FP, he was the leader of the Sadrists and meeting with Allawi.

I am annoyed by the pointless numbers debate that you started here because of your lowball figure of 70, 000 Iraqis killed. At least you might of qualified it by saying "killed in action" or cite the source. There is much more interesting info in this piece and you must have known that such a low number would cause people to aggrandize the subject. It was a shit ton of deaths, it comes with war and was not close to the death toll just in Cambodia, when the Khmer Rouge was an indirect cause of the Vietnam War.

It's a given: We destabilize and allow the people of underdeveloped nations — once called savages by colonial governments and still considered inferior in Western society— to wipe one another out. Then we can sit back and look proper and forthright by comparison. It was a pretty good strategy for staying superior until we started trying to put a humanitarian face on our wars with COIN doctrine.

What would be interesting would be to find out whom most Iraqis blame for the 'literally countless' deaths. Are we creating tons of new terrorists as so many have claimed about Afghanistan civilian deaths? Or do Iraqis blame who they think perpetrated the suicide bomb that killed their cousin?

If Iraq was an island, our troops would have come home five years ago. But Iran had to come uninvited to our party.

Six months before we moved on Baghdad, (we were already in Iraq, for about 12 years), Iran began to prepare the battlefield. Smuggling in arms, ammo, demo, manuals, and communications. They seeded Iraq for a major 'insurgency'.

After we liberated Iraq from the worst mongrel in history, Iran went to work.

We ignored it due to not wanting to expand the war.

Our war with the Islamic Republic of Iran will come soon enough and a lot of scores will be settled.

God Willing.

they are not offensive or racist like a lot of the bloggers here on FP please explain ?

The perspective here is distorted. If you embark upon a process that proves ill advised, you withdraw from it. It’s like you go down a cul-de-sac; you back out if you have sense but you don’t try to break out the sides. The US has done quite enough damage in Iraq and it needs to leave, which means leave altogether, even close the embassy for five of more years and let the nation heal. This article is like a rapist, having broken in, done his stuff, picked up the valuables and trashed the place, turning round and advising the victim on colour coordination and the choice of new drapes.

I doubt it will get much coverage in the US media but the big story elsewhere is five US soldiers in Afghanistan arrested for what is described as ‘fun killings’, which apparently included cutting the fingers off the corpses for souvenirs. In addition there is that guy in Florida who plans a bonfire of Korans on Saturday. The US is one nation, and one part simply cannot sit on a high stool in a state of intellectual detachment and moral schizophrenia totally oblivious to the murk and mess swirling around the rest of it.

If the US really wants to conquer the world it would be better left to Hollywood, MacDonald’s, Cola and jeans

Iraq did not fund anything, we claimed they had weapons of mass destruction (which we sold to them) then when they wouldn't give them up we invaded them and are still occupying them. Also, if this? was about who funded terrorists why aren't we invading Saudi Arabia or Pakistan (look it up). Also, who cares about our casualty rate when during this war 110,000 Iraqi clasament liga 1 Civilians (actual body count) have been killed in violence and estimates of the real numbers range from 150,000-600,000.

The Iraqis are sovereign. They are recognized as a sovereign state by the international community. They have the final say regarding policies within their borders. sesli They have some ability to guard their own borders. They can sign agreements (like the SOFA) as a de jure member of the international system.