Your view of what people are capable of is naive. Some people are barely capable of tying their shoes. Others are capable of starting mammoth corporations and gleaning information from your home computer in order to try to sell you things you don't need or want. The failure to acknowledge those differences is not a good idea, and it's certainly not realistic.

You also ignore the fact that the Constitution was written, to a great extent, to protect the interests of the wealthy minority, white male landowners at that time, from the will of the people who were much less wealthy. In that sense, the document has been very successful (although wealth is no longer simply a function of land ownership).

On the other hand, you are correct in your belief that individual rights are being eroded. Is it an "individual right" to be searched when you board an airplane? To be wiretapped without warrant? To be stopped and frisked on New York City streets without reasonable cause? To have your urine or blood sampled at random?

It is also totally open to question as to what government services are "necessary." For example, the war in Iraq was never necessary, in my opinion, but we fought it anyway (and are still there, just as we are still in Germany, Korea, etc.). These are not necessary government services, but politicians decide that they are good for business, literally. The Constitution does not even imply that such behavior is desirable, much less necessary.

The Tea Party has some legitimate beefs, I believe, but I don't see that they have any helpful solutions to propose, regardless of whether they wear suits or have college degrees. Our leaders are the corporations and wealthy individuals who profit off our ignorance and apathy. their power will not be affected by the election of a couple of dozen candidates supported by the Tea Party. I wish that that was not true, but it is.

Of course we don't understand what goes on in the USA merely by passing through occasionally and relying on the media.
However we are affected by what goes on in the most powerful nation on earth and its rather frustrating to not understand, and to realise that there may be a lot of US citizens who don't understand either, judging by the low voter turn-out.
At the very basic level why is that there are people in this most advanced nation who have to think twice about consulting a primary health-care provider for fear of the cost?
Why is it that efforts fo fix this are so vehemently opposed and to no avail?
Why is it that access to education is so dependant on wealth when the recipients of the service are mostly too young to have such wealth on their own account?
Why does the US government cry poor when its citizens are burning imported fossile fuels so recklessly?
The USA could afford the best health-care and education services in the world if it applied taxes to double the price of fossile transport fuels this year and again next year. Instead of the huge transfer of wealth now going to the middle east there would be a much more worthy transfer to its own disadvantaged citizens and the boost to employment from alternative energy projects and mass transit projects would ensure everyone who wanted a job could have one for the foreseeable future.
There might even be a way to let the big corporations make something out of it as well.
That may give it a chance of getting done.

The problem can be summed up as allowing "right-wing rednecks" to hijack what may have been very sane debate, atleast as far as the outside world sees it.

Attend a Tea Party and You will see. Don't tell me you already have because if you actually attended one,you could not have posted your miss-view.
Other Countries have no idea ,the God Given rights to Life,Liberty and persuit of Happiness that we have here in the United States.
If you don't like this way of life...The United States of America is Not the place for you to live, much less comment on !

You people are more than welcome to try to make us leave the country.

I agree, the sooner the better.

The REAL problem is irrational people like you repeating lefty talking points. What debate has been highjacked by "righ-wing rednecks"? Also, I doubt very seriously the entire "outside" world wants you speaking for them.

At any rate, ROHAN17286, you've already ruined your credibility here with your assinined "right-wing rednecks" comment.

You two are hilarious. There won't be one intelligent thing come out of your mouths (fingertips) this entire thread. Do you two post anywhere else?

Two sides that both have a perverted view of each other, you don't have to go any farther then this very forum thread to see the failure of the American political system.
It consists of name calling, stereotypes and zero solutions.

I don't have fun watching my neighbor to the south struggle with itself, but every year i follow its politics and every year i cringe, not at the politicians, but the educated citizens. This also speaks to the flaws in a two party system, citizens get distracted with hating one another rather than actually looking at the issues or what the politicians provide.

In case you haven't looked Eddie, the Hippies and Lefist Radicals from the 1960's are the ones running the country at present. I suspect from your comments, that you may be cut from the same cloth. Enjoy it while you can because the decline of the "left" starts next Tuesday and will finish in 2012. By the way, speaking as one of those conservative Bros," anytime you and your gang of misfits are ready, I say, "bring it on." Hope this message is clear enough for you to understand.

Identify constitutionality of every new law: Require each bill to identify the specific provision of the U.S. Constitution that gives Congress the power to do what the bill does. (82.03%)
Reject emissions trading: Stop the "cap and trade" administrative approach used to control carbon dioxide emissions by providing economic incentives for achieving reductions in the emissions of carbon dioxide. (72.20%)
Demand a balanced federal budget: Begin the Constitutional amendment process to require a balanced budget with a two-thirds majority needed for any tax modification. (69.69%)
Simplify the tax system: Adopt a simple and fair single-rate tax system by scrapping the Internal Revenue Code and replacing it with one that is no longer than 4,543 words – the length of the original Constitution. (64.9%)
Audit federal government agencies for constitutionality: Create a Blue Ribbon taskforce that engages in an audit of federal agencies and programs, assessing their Constitutionality, and identifying duplication, waste, ineffectiveness, and agencies and programs better left for the states or local authorities. (63.37%)
Limit annual growth in federal spending: Impose a statutory cap limiting the annual growth in total federal spending to the sum of the inflation rate plus the percentage of population growth. (56.57%)
Repeal the healthcare legislation passed on March 23, 2010: Defund, repeal and replace the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. (56.39%)
Pass an 'All-of-the-Above' Energy Policy: Authorize the exploration of additional energy reserves to reduce American dependence on foreign energy sources and reduce regulatory barriers to all other forms of energy creation. (55.5%)
Reduce Earmarks: Place a moratorium on all earmarks until the budget is balanced, and then require a 2/3 majority to pass any earmark. (55.47%)
Reduce Taxes: Permanently repeal all recent tax increases, and extend current temporary reductions in income tax, capital gains tax and estate taxes, currently scheduled to end in 2011. (53.38%)
The Tea Party Patriots have asked both Democrats and Republicans to sign on to the Contract. No Democrats have signed on,

did she really try to prove a point by copy and pasting from wikipedia?

Sue? Why only new laws? And whats with the percentages, i don't getit.

I have attended the T P rallies and can say that the vast majority of those attending are white and civil and fat. (that is civil when approached individually.) They are thoughtful but I am not sure after speaking with them what they really want. Or what they believe. It appears mostly to be about fear of change. But as said they are more diverse than I expected. But again I don't know what they fear and why they blame this administration. Unless they have reached some tipping point (some are way past it, maybe since birth).

I am not sure they know much about the world the decry as evil and freedom hating. They state they haven't traveled in the current era. Many traveled though in their military past.

They seem confused as to who of what they represent, aside from the jingoistic stance of popular modern John Bircher s. They also seen ignorant that they were the recipient of a third of the stimulus via tax cuts, they received another third as increased unemployment benefits, their major funding is not from grass roots individuals but from major Republican players and PACS. Whose cynical manipulation of them is a power play and not ideologically simpatico. It is unclear what they think will be accomplished when the same guys who tanked us are reelected.

So I am puzzled.

Rik in Atlanta

The trouble is, we haven't heard a single "potentially libertarian or right-wing" Tea Party-er. It is sad that the country which spawned a Thomas Jefferson (one on my heroes, despite his flaws) can degenerate to this.
The problem with the Tea Party is that the most visible discourse tends to marginalize, even detest intelligence and rational discourse for an outsider (I'm particularly concerned, I 'm looking at grad school in the US by next year). Any remedies to the same will be welcomed.

Fox News is the new mainstream media

Make that "The Ministry of Truth."

I am afraid that I don't really understand your comment. I am not a big fan of the Tea Partiers, but they are if anything, they trend Libertarian and/or right wing. Also, I don't understand your comment about your possibly attending a US graduate school. What does the Tea Party have to do with that? You seem confused to the point of assuming that the US is overrun with Tea Partiers, when in fact the US probably the most diverse country on earth. Furthermore, if you have ever been to a US university campus, you would soon learn that left-wing attitudes are not only prevelant, but when it comes to the faculty, generally required. So you needent worry about being 'infected' with the Tea Party disease, or whatever it is you are concerned about.

One more thing, if you knew anything about Thomas Jefferson's political philisophy, out of all available choices he would probably most easily align with Tea Party types. If one is to criticize the TP crowd one can argue that the philosophies of 230 years ago don't fit neatly into today's world. Jefferson believed in small government, probably to an unrealistic extent. The modern Democratic and Republican parties probably owe more to Alexander Hamilton than Jefferson.

Except, like many others commenting here, ROHAN is not confused, but ignorant. If the only place you get information is all lefty blogs, MSM, etc., you couldn't/wouldn't have any real grasp on reality.

Liberals/progressives do not entertain rational thought, or live in a factual based reality. ROHAN is a perfect example. There are several other prime examples of the same thing throughout this thread. Some clowns like Ed Schultz or Olberman, or a rotton pseudo-intellectual like Janine Garofalo screech's "they're all racists, homophobes, bigots, rednecks". Then all the ROHANS of the world unite and repeat it over and over and over again until they make themselves believe what they are saying, regardless of the reality or the facts. Most of the ROHAN types wouldnt dare go to a Tea Party rally to see for themselves.

Liberals, and especially progressives, are also the most intolerent people you'll meet, i.e. will not tolerate anothers opinion or thoughts, even thnigs based on facts. So, to summerize, thats not confusion, thats ignorance and narrowmindedness, no ability to get past the lefty talking points.

There are some good posts in this thread, though. RODEL had a good one.

You accuse Rohan of stereotyping teapartiers and insult him for it, but at the same time you yourself just called progressives and leftists some of the most close minded people.

If you had rationality and were able to take more of a third person stance, you would see either end has its own version of bigots and radicals as well as more level headed moderates. Not to say all radicals are not level headed, sometimes radical thought is needed.

In either case, this whole forum debate on almost all ends shows exactly why US has so many political failures, its become about hating the other party/based on values rather then actual rational solutions.

My point was that ROHAN and so many others have never been to a Tea Party rally, have very little understanding of the movement, but somehow think their comments are to be taken seriously.

The same ole talking points just simply repeated. One commentor quoted Bill Maher. What do you expect.

There's to many people that think we have to tolerate a super progressive radical left wing agenda. It's just not going to happen. I, and most will not compromise traditional values this great country was founded on, including the U.S. Constitution.

You'll understand better after the mid-term elections. The liberal progresive agenda, the idea that government can solve all our problems, is an insult to rational minds.

Read some of Rohans posts; try a couple of Kirbangs, you'll get my point. No, I'm not going to stand by and look on with a third person viewpoint.

The progressive agenda includes collectivism. I won't be collected, not now, not ever. I'm not alone either.

You have got to be joking....

The sign holder is being used as an identifier of the Tea Party but there is no proof that this guy is even associated with them. There are many groups and native New Yorkers including democrats, unionized construction workers and Jewish religious groups protesting the mosque.
Another fallacy is the building of the mosque itself... I hate to point out to anyone that doesn't perform due diligence before posting comments, but the mosque is already in the basement of a connecting building about 800' away from the proposed community center. http://wonkette.com/417009/attention-bigots-there-is-already-a-mosque-near-the-wtc-site If you want to protest something, figure out what you are really protesting then you can have a constructive point of view instead of fanning the fire of rumors.

@coffeegal - "If you want to protest something, figure out what you are really protesting then you can have a constructive point of view instead of fanning the fire of rumors." - I hope you werent talking to me. Im not protesting anything. - i was more or less inquiring about selection of the sign holders noun, not protesting.

I think you failed to see my point. Funny sarcasim in your post though.

Sue Of what countries do you speak? Have you traveled to other countries? I find there, no lack of freedom. They seem to live pretty much like we do. The get up, go to work by whatever means, have lunch, and come home. They love their families and their friends, spend their money where they wish and thrive. I suspect you mean they are taxed a higher rate and therefore have less control of their earned wage. While there are differences they get paid back in different ways. Guaranteed college education. freedom from health care worries, no worry they will live in a cardboard box when they age, many advantages for which they pay.

It is true or seems this way from my observations many live less aspirational lives than do we here. But are our aspirations based in reality? Defending Paris Hilton s Tax Cuts because someday we may be rich like her is based in myth. The chances of this occurring are greater in much of the EU than here. Americans remain in the socioeconomic class in which they are born, except since the Contract with America and then the chances are less. The middle class is dissolving and the top 1.5% are flourishing.

Like others writers here I am puzzled by what exactly you have lost? You personally? and why it is now important when it wasn't important 5 years ago. Please tell me I truly wish to understand.

Rik in Atlanta

I'm a heterosexual WASP male, and not a single bit guilty about it either. I'm born and raised in the US too, never lived in Europe or Asia. My people go back to pre-revolutionary days. My father's generation fought and died so that we don't have to give the stiff-arm salute today. And Sue, I understand the Tea Potty very well.

I'll tell you what freedom isn't. Freedom isn't having your head stepped on by some Rand Paul bozo for the sin of disagreeing with his political views. There is another name for that.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross."

So, KIRBANG, people in N. Korea, Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Cuba (just to name a few), all enjoy the same freedoms we enjoy here in the United States?

That's so far from reality it's almost laughable.

You also stated "Americans remain in the socioeconimic class in which they are born". That's another load of rubbish. Where are the facts to support that? Are you telling me that there's no way a poor person through determination and hard work can't become middle class, upper middle class, or even wealthy? By the same token, do you not believe there's plenty of wealthy people that have squandered their fortunes through sloth, laziness, bad investments, bad decisions, can't end up poor?

Tef, you appear to (perhaps deliberately) misunderstand the above comment. Kirbang points out that in many places (such as Great Britain, Sweden, Argentina and many, many others) people live very freely. As a person who has lived in four different countries, I can attest to the truth of this. Yes, you are right that some countries do not allow their citizens to live freely. But this fear of a "socialist" state is misplaced. Socialism and facism are not the same thing. I never lived more comfortably than when I was in relatively socialist Great Britain. I am on constant medication; if I lived in the states, I would go broke trying to keep myself healthy.

I actually agree with many of the above-stated viewpoints of the Tea Party (such as scrapping the cap-and-trade program, which is a useless scam), but what alarms me is how much vitriol seems to come from rallyers. That is what is frightening and worrying to those of us outside of the USA. Perhaps this is simply a situation in which the loudest, and least rational, voices are heard the most often, but to many it appears that a movement which might have once been about common sense and useful policy is now about hatred, moralizing and fearmongering. I think this is very likely because it has been hijacked by Glen Beck personalities who are simply narcissistic and incapable of moderation or general human empathy.

Unfortunately, both sides of the American political spectrum are guilty of fearmongering, where "Democrat" and "Republican" have both become dirty words. Politicians spend too much time barking insensibly at each other and not enough time actually talking about issues and trying to find compromises.

And no, anti-intellectual is not a word. It is two words making up a phrase that refers to people who have a misplaced fear or dislike of people who are educated or might have explored some different viewpoints on policy. To us foreigners, there is a worrying lack of logic to the public manifestation of the Tea Party (and indeed many manifestations of the American political system) which seems more focussed on personal attacks than rational debate.

This article is about popular press articles in several countries discussing an internal US political movement. The foreign readers would be expected to know the names of the political leaders, structure of the US government, the electoral process, the basic policies of the political parties, and issues including the US constitution, the role of the Supreme Court and local issues such as the building of a religious centre.

To state 'they have zero idea of what it is like, to live Free' They only know what they live' you need to compare the outside world's understanding of the US with the view from the US of the outside world. How many American citizens can name the leaders, parties and internal politics of even a single foreign state? That is where the ignorance lies.

With this ignorance comes empty claims about freedom. Can anyone name a single freedom enjoyed by Americans which is not also a right anywhere in Europe?

"Can anyone name a single freedom enjoyed by Americans which is not also a right anywhere in Europe?" J THOMAS: "...in many european nations there is no right to own firearms unless you get special permission."

Ownership of firearms is not really the issue. In Europe, even if you have a permit to own a firearm you must treat it as nothing more than a piece of sporting equipment -- a kind of expensive toy. The issue is the right to USE firearms in self-defense.

A violent criminal threatens murder unless you surrender your rights to him. In the case of a rapist, this would be the right to control your own body. In the case of a burglar, it is your right to privacy and your freedom from unwarranted searches and seizures. A street mugger also threatens your right to travel freely. When a government, out of concern for that criminal's life, conspires to leave you no option but to accept his terms or die -- that government becomes an accomplice to the crime (and to the destruction of your rights), no less so than a bank-robber's look-out man.

Okay, just to get the spanish to english right, "logró derrotar" translates as either "managed to defeat" or "succeeded in defeating", not "could" . "Could" would be from the verb "poder", not "lograr" which translates: achieve". Otherwise, I can only say that Deleware Republicans are the laughing stock of the nation and O'connell will probably not win, but she could get a slot on Fox.

"" Reject emissions trading."

What would you propose to limit harmful emissions?"

Many things could be proposed but the problem is that emissions trading doesn't actually lower emissions, it just moves them around on paper. I have always thought that the best way to reduce emissions is to wean ourselves off of both general excessive consumption and specific fossil fuels. The only reason viable alteratives don't yet exist is because no one is investing in their development. Time to give companies and individuals incentive to change their ways, I think.

So, I am in favour of the Tea Party's position on Cap and Trade. But their other environmental policy - drilling wherever there might be oil, regardless of what might already be using that land - frightens the life out of me. Followed to its logical end, this policy will be an unmitigated disaster for the protected lands and species of America. Wildlife preserves were created for a reason - to protect wildlife. The Tea Party and the Republicans' willingness to throw this to the wayside is bad for humanity in general.

I agree with your objection to intellectual laziness - too many people are not sitting down and thinking about how these proposals would be implemented, paid for and sustained, and what they would cost future generations. There's a worryingly large strand of 'me me me' -ism there.

Though it is one of my favorite countries at times it ceases to function, seemingly on the whims of a few and over the most trite issues imaginable. France is in no position to point the finger at anyone.

Is the right to strike no longer a part of exercising freedom of expression? That is just the French way of expressing their discontent. Yes, they sometimes get out of hand, but so do protests here. I think that both Americans and people in other countries could do with coming down off their respective high horses about other countries. We all do things differently and we're all trying to operate our countries as we think best. That's why I can't understand why people with different viewpoints must expend so much energy in hatred and ignorance when it would be better served in dialogue, development and understanding.

I definitely support the right to strike, in my opinion it seems we in the US have lost this tendency somewhat (probably due in large part to Regan era anti-strike legislation). France loses me at times though over what they choose to strike over. In the middle of January when Paris trains are shut down, there are no cabs and you're forced to walk two miles in high heels hauling a laptop, it's quite difficult to sympathize with striking train drivers who refuse to let go of a small added pay bonus due to the dangers of drivng coal trains - coal trains haven't existed for decades! That kind of thing makes me a little nuts with France.

I definitely support the right to strike, in my opinion it seems we in the US have lost this tendency somewhat (probably due in large part to Regan era anti-strike legislation). France loses me at times though due to what they choose to strike over. In the middle of January when Paris trains are shut down, there are no cabs and you're forced to walk two miles in high heels hauling a laptop, it's quite difficult to sympathize with striking train drivers who refuse to let go of a small added pay bonus due to the dangers of drivng coal trains - coal trains haven't existed for decades! That kind of thing makes me a little nuts with France.

I am E. European, world apart from the neo-Marxist West and we share your vision and concern. The critical date is 1968 when in the US and in most of Western Europe a Soviet instigated student rebellion broke out to create an Utopian anti-capitalist Marxist world.
In America it's called the birth of the New Left.

The current American media, academia and press are populated with these New Left people who are still pushing their Politically Correct ideology they acquired during those years.
It's an unofficial social club like the British Fabian Socialists was in 1884.

At the same time we Eastern Europeans were brutally oppressed by the Communist regimes and by corollary popular uprising engulfed Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia.
Easterners are immune to the Leftist inculcation which is encompassing the US public sphere because the Left already played out all their card and gotten discredited.

I am pessimistic about the success of the Tea Party honest effort because American public did not have yet the cataclysmic experience with Marxist rule that E. Europeans, Russians, Cubans etc. already have. But we absolutely comprehend and support their aims.

You might noticed I never used the word "Liberal" because it's a benign sounding moniker for Socialist - a word with lots of sinister baggage - so they try to avoid its use.

Please be advised that your observation and opinion is correct to the last letter of you post, one can only congratulate to your astute presentation.
From Budapest, Hungary

I have no idea whether the Tea Party is good or bad, but I liked reading your interesting post above. Having studied China quite a bit in the course of my work I came to sense that China (and India as well) is a civilization with largely compatible values to the "west" and that many differences were due to the tremendous beauracratic challenge facing the Chinese in the process of organizing such a huge nation of different cultures and dialects. The brutality seemed to come from a sense of necessity, not from an inherent malicious character at the heart of Chinese culture. I do not fully understand the extent to which Chinese values represent Southeast Asian values as a whole, perhaps a lot? Perhaps very little? But China, as the vanguard state of the region, seems like a shrewd, fair and fundamentally kind culture.

I hope you keep posting around this place. Just don't criticize Islam and the moderators will leave you alone.

Sorry, but this Chinese girl doesn't agree with you.

Do you feel there are irreconcilable rifts between China and the west? Interesting, would love to hear more.

Rodel: I don't know what Asian country you live in and I don't recognize either the America you praise of the Left you think is mistaken. Neither exists as you portray them. In a world where governments are controlled by Corporations, it is ridiculous to talk about socialism , collectivism, etc. It just is not possible or probable. The question is the role of government in a world controled by corporate interests - is it to promote these interests or make sure that these interests serve the common good, and mediate the question of who should pay for what is necessary to keep the common man from being eaten up by interests which have little or no concern for him/her. The recent health care legislation is a good example. What the so-called "socialist" regime of Obama manged to pass was not even close to what one might imagine a Social Democratic government (that is center-right) in Europe would pass. It is a bill that carves out a little bit of protection for ordinary folks and small businesses in a world where health care is controlled by large pharmeceutical corporations and a huge health care industry. Just take a look at who finances our elections - compare how much individuals gave and how much corporations and/or their CEOs gave. UN and UNDP are just cleaning up the human tragedy left by governments who serve corporate interests. They are neglible players in the overall mix of things - the cost of doing business. The problem that confronts the free human spirit is not too much government, but rather, government which no longer serves neither is principles nor its people, but rather, serves the corporate interests which buy them power. As big as governement is in the world, it is just a pinch of salt in the dead sea of corporate profits and a handy scapegoat for folks like yourself who need someone to blame for the fact that you can't understand the world the way it really is.

Agreed with all except the moron president rant. While he (Obama) may be less than up to the gargantuan task inherited, he certainly is no moron.I assume you refer to the past administration. I especially love the obese people driving SUV s comment. One of my favorites is the cry from white male Americans on their loss of freedom.
Rik in Atlanta

Out of all people to quote, you pick a total douchebag - Bill Maher. I've read and responded to three or four of your posts. Your narrowmind is revealing.

I think it's funny how people give themselves away - their ideology, but not just that, it's the pathetic sources. Bill Maher? LOL

Maher has made a sweeping generalization that is meant to be funny and is mostly inaccurate. But at the same time, for those of us who might have some experience in a group struggling to make its voice heard; Maher's comment has an uncomfortable grain of truth. The world is changing and there seem to be many who wish to halt and even reverse that change. Yes, Maher makes a sweeping, deliberately provocative statement. But that is what pundits do, and the right has their own, who do the same.

People on both sides of the debate spend a lot of time shouting at each other about who is stupid or silly or immoral or whatever. But no one spends any time being nice anymore. I think Bill and Ted put it best when they said "be excellent to each other" - both sides need to put on their grown-up pants, stop being d-bags to one another and engage in some real, useful conversation about where their country (and the world) are headed.

The point is you have the freedom to build a mosque, synagogue, church, or other places of worship in the United States. You do not have that freedom in many other countries, including Saudi Arabia.

What gives you the right to call the guy in the picture a moron? I'd bet you the same one hundred dollars you wouldn't call that guy a moron to his face.

I'm 110% sure I'd win my bet, but your bet whether the guy knows where Mecca is, is not sure thing.

P.S. I also responded to one of your earlier posts, "Freedom", you wrote at 10:46am, 9/27. Check it out.

The original article is quoting "Der Spiegel.de" and the "Le Monde.fr" selected opinion pieces in which the authors debase and disparage the Tea Party movement - something which is apparently corresponding to FP political direction.
The same publication also published German Chancellor A. Merkel's public statement in which unequivocally rejected the "multikulti" (sic) policy as an abject failure: a cherished Tea Party idea.
President Sarkozy of France equally came out in favor for the protection of French cultural values, so did the Swiss plebiscite not long ago.
A palpable contrast to the America bashing, Che-loving Berkeley crowd and the DailyKos people.

Those articles are willfully omitted, ostensibly to direct the American readers toward the Democratic Party's "we are the children of the world" direction, PORQUE SE PUEDE!"

American detractors of the Tea Party - I took the liberty to guess - most likely ready to accuse Germany, France, Switzerland, the Netherlands with RACISM, hate-mongering, xenophobia, Bigotry etc. - a reflexive mantra against those who are not following the "New Left Party Line of 1968".

Americans are mostly unaware of the facts that in Europe there are MANY accepted, legitimate news media, each belongs to a different political ideology.
There are no clones of the N.Y.T. which wants to rule the Universe: diversity of thoughts are not a very much liked in the USA.

From Budapest, Hungary

Pity those progressives/liberals. There will be a bunch of them unemployed as of Wednesday morning, Nov. 3rd.

When idiots (progressives/liberals) take over, the decline of a great power accelerates at breakneck speed. That's why many will be fired next Tuesday.

Stop with the platitudes and rehtoric. How do you intend to feed all the hungry of the world? Who will pay the doctors and hospitals for their services? (liberals and progressives think health care providers, doctors, etc., should work for free)

Oh, right, a government, a big big government. And where does that government get it's money? Two ways, it either prints more, making the currency absolutely worthless, or it takes it - more and more from the earners of the nation. Another bleeding heart liberal progressive. Take from the earners and give to the non-earners.

Pretty simple concept, just like your post. The only thing, it's not reality. One things for sure though, if all the rich whiners of the world, Hollywood, and each and every liberal and progressive that thinks someone esle shold pay, just get there wallets out, do more volunteer work at soup kitchens, food pantries, donate massive amounts of food, that would help a lot.

Don's sit in the sidelines and complain. And don't ask another soul to do anything until you're doing and/or hav done as much as you can.

Bush has been out of office for nearly 2 years. The democrats have controlled the purse strings in Washington since January of '07 (nearly 4 years).

In just under two years, Obama has increased the US deficit to a higher number than every congress before this one combined. It's over $ 13 trillion dollars, and growing.

The president doesn't make policy, congress does. Democrats had a majority and the veto power all these years.

Oh yeah, there's a good chance of world peace with N. Korea, Iran, possibly Venezuala with nuclear weapons. We know Iran has them as well as N. Korea.

So your idea for world peace is to make the most powerful nation in the world less powerful. I don't follow the concept.

Those damn nasty facts just constantly get in the way.

Bush last budget deficit: $1.418 Trillion
Obama's 1st budget deficit: $1.23 Trillion, a decrease of 12%
It is a flat out lie to state Obama has increased the budget deficit.

Yes TEF, our idea for a more peaceful world would be an end to 'the most powerful nation in the world' bombing other nations, occupying their territory and 'liberating' their assets. It's a no-brainer if you can step outside the 'American exceptionalism' narrative. Did you not get the point that I support the Tea Party as I supported Bush jnr. but for different reasons than you do?

You've got to go a little deeper than Paul Krugman.

Your dead wrong. Log on to Heritage Foundation. All the information youy need is there. Go to Bloomberg ,com for additonal information. His Obama's deficit projection is over $13. some odd million dollars. You can't argue facts.

The dems skipped yet another budget projection before the fall recess (yes, conveniently before the mid-terms).

No Walt, no here, not now, not ever..........there's to much factual information that's syas the total opposite. Numbers don't lie.

Site/reference credibel sources for your claim that Obama has reduced the deficit. I said credible references, not opinions.

I'm a firm believer in facts and rational thought.

By whose estimation is Heritage not a credible source? You need to dig a little deper than some lefty blog to discredit the Herirtage Foundation. Show me/us where they've been discredited, and by whom.

You go on to site the CBO. Oh, for the love of Pete. You trust a source insude the beltway. Just great!!!!!!!! LOL

How did the Heritage Foundation cause you to get "burned twice"?

The CBO has hundreds of governement agencies that are used to "calculate/guess" the budget. Hell yes they (can) cook the books. The CBD revised their numbers within hours of releasing a report(s) to the public.

Just because you've audiited tax returns doesn't mean anything.

The CBO also bases their reports on projected "probable" data, hypothesis given to them by congress; in other words, "if this happens, then that will happen, and if that happens, then this will hapopen", and if the Fed does this, we can predict that", etc etc et............ how is that credible? A CBO report is based on what might could happen, but noting written in stone.

A perfect example - H.B. 3200, the health Care Reform bill. Rivht before it passed, the CBO agreed with congress it will reduces the deficit (among other things), and right after it passed, they went, "Oh hell, I don't know what we were thinking, but we got it way wrong, there's no way in hell it will reduce the deficit". Harry Reid said the bill will ONLY cost $997 billion, so as long as the bill was under a trillion dollars, the CBO said "Yeah, it will reduce the deficit". Then, the truth came out. A huge lie was perpetrated by Obam,a, Reid, Pelosi and the rest.

The CBO can only rely on what cngress gives them. Trust the CBO, no, not really. trust Obama's congress, no, not really.

Tef,

Do some reading of history and you will learn that your hated left wing leader is usually preceded by a right wing leader that funnels a nations wealth into the hands of a few families be they Royalty or bankers/corporate leaders. No privileged class has every willfully given up their privileges. As I told a very wealthy 500+ million friend of a friend once "your taxes are cheap insurance against the Bolshevik revolution". This guy got it. Capitalism needs democracy to work over the long haul. Capitalism by it's very nature is a story of winners and losers or if you like "creative destruction". The losers still feel they have a voice in the system if they have a vote. Take that away and you get the radical left. Be careful what you wish for because what comes out the other end of it maybe your worst nightmare.

I'm an Irishman, European, and I oppose all imperialist and colonial manifestations, whether Soviet or American, Marxist or Capitalist, Zionist or Islamist. I'm merely making the point that American power is excessive and brutish and that we'd be better off with less of it. It is, thankfully, diminishing. I happen to believe that success for the Republicans and the Tea Party extremists will hasten the process.

Yes, capitalism is a terrible thing, especially when the world looks to the US first after any world distaster, natural or otherwise. We send more billions in foreign aid than many countries combined.

As you said, we're truly excessive..........................................when it comes to giving.

No American should ever stop believeing in American exceptionlism. Unfortunately, our current president doesn't belive in American exceptionlism, and the dictators and terrorists around the world know it. Why does Iran continue their nuclear proliferation? Same with N. Korea.

Look at what the U.N is considering; Irans dictator on the commitee to forward womens rights. That's your global collectivism. One world, peace, right???

So, as a US citizen, the first thing I think of is reducing our world presence, our military domination, as I'm watching a new World Trade Center being built on the same grounds where over 3,000 innocent men, women, and children were murdered by terrorists.

Unbelievable!

When did Iran ever invade anyone? What is the only country in the world to have used a nuclear weapon - twice? And against civilian populations, not military targets!

Paddyup, do you live in a vacum? Iran might invade anyone it wants, at any time. That's the threat. What dio you want to do, wait until it happens?

The United Sates ended World War II with the bombs. The U.S lost hundreds of thousands of men and women in the process. The U.S was fighting a war on two huge fronts, Europe, and the Pacific. The "bomb"(s) saved hundreds of thousands additional lives.

Please try to discuss current events, PADDY.

To All: Please let me rephrase my earlier post to"hindreds of thousands of men, women, and children from many diffreent nations were lost in WW II. It was a horrible, bloody conflict.

Not to be a little one sided, but watch any historical movies - real live accounts of the Invasion of Normandy, or when pearl Harbor was bombed, or when two jet airplanes were flown into the trade center towers in N.Y.

You wrotre two great post! I understand and concur with your last sentence "But we doubt your success". There was truck loads of history to review about Obama, his radical assiciations, his love of the "Rules for Radicals" book (Saul Alinsky), 20 years of Black Liberation Theology with Reverand Wright, Bill Ayers - Weather Underground, and yet, the a country that still has freedom of the press, blogs out the whazoo, cable news, etc., still, with a sleepy, head in the sand, "I hate Bush" mentality, elected an extreme radical progressive in to the most powerful office in the US.

Yes, It's unbelieveable to say the least, but it's been slowly going that direction for 40 - 50 years. When you have a department of education, tenured teachers and professor's at the nations leading educational institutions, with the ideology that America needs to be "cut down to size" attitude, what can someone from across the way think.

A perfect example, Obama defunded and stopped the missle defense shield in Europe. That made a lot of sense. How can we be seen as a dependable allie under Obama?

We can't.

My Magyar friend is half-right and wholly rightwing. I know many Eastern Europeans and they do indeed have different views on America to us Western Europeans. But most of them understand that their enemy was not so much Communism as the Russian Empire; they fear a Putin as much as a Krushchev. And many of them - the Poles and Latvians especially - have now been to America and found something less than the promised land. And to ascribe Marxist thinking to Americal Liberals is laughable - the Democrats are a center-right party by European standards, the Republicans hard-right and the Tea Party extreme right. A Hungarian should understand this; a Hungarian who had been to America would understand this. The European is simply missing my point that excessive power is always bad. Not just American power. We Irish have been colonised too, not by the Russians but by the nice white Christian civilized Capitalist Brits who rushed to Bush's side in his battle for control of the oil supply. The Afghans and Iraqis, like the Hungarians, don't want to be occupied either, whether by Brits or Yanks. And, like the Hungarians, they'll soon be rid of their tormentors. So maybe in a few years we'll be worrying about the excessive power of China or Brazil or Russia; today it's America.

Excessive power is a subjective concept. What is excessive? The power to free Irag from a brutal Saddam & his sons who tortured, gased , mamed, killed. murdered, ruled?

That's excessive? Not in my book, and to millions of Iraqi's

Yes, TEF, we're all subjective. And most of us are decent people who want right to prevail. We just can't see that our guys might be the bad guys. Some of us, as we become old, try for objectivity. I'm trying; will you?

Stay focused! I said excessive power is subjective, not "we're".

You're right; it's way past my bedtime. Excessive power is what the bully in the schoolyard has. You need a coalition to oppose and balance it; in the history books it's known as the balance of power. In a unipolar world there's no balance, so the bully gets to blacken everyone's eye. But there's an old saying, 'Be nice to people on your way up; you'll meet them again on your way down.' My Iraqi friend whose 88-year-old mother was killed by an American bomb while at prayer in Baghdad is waiting for you on your way down. He's a Sunni whose family was utterly destroyed by Saddam. He's also a doctor, a poet and the gentlest soul you could meet. But he fought the Americans because he's a patriot. Americans talk a lot about patriotism but they simply can't imagine it in others. Do you look at the faces of the innocent victims of your drones in Pakistan or Afghanistan? Do you not know how the killing maddens young men throughout the Muslim countries? Don't you know that 911 was blowback?. Stop believing the propaganda - go to the source.
G'night & Happy Hallowe'en.

I wrote 'blowback'; I didn't write 'deserved'. It would have been deserved if they'd gotten Bush or Rumsfeld or the other criminals. You sympathise with American casualties but not with America's victims. You say you're in a war, a 'war on terror', but you seem to think that casualties should be on one side only. You've run out of arguments so you resort to personal abuse. Try opening your mind; try thinking for yourself. I'm off to play with my grandchildren - it's more fun and they're smarter.

And do you really think the reason for the invasion of Iraq was to liberate it's people from Sadam? Yikes take away the oil and the right wing could have cared less about the people of Iraq. Almost all of America's involvement in the middle east is related to access to oil. I can't wait to hear your response to this? Let me guess Drill baby drill.

I've enjoyed most of your comments thusfar but you lost me with the 911 blowback post. The whining that goes in the Islamic world about western occupation is so disproportionate to the killing of Muslims by other Muslims. The Islamic world is a shambles and has been for several hundred years. Is it "right" that the west has taken control of Iraq/AF? No, not at all, but the fact remains the number one killer of Muslims worldwise is in fact other Muslims.

Bloody typos abound today it seems.

The neither pro nor anti Tea Party crowd. We're here too, and we're totally confused.

The neither pro nor anti Tea Party crowd. We're here too, and we're totally confused.

Sounds like the American conservative media aren't very efficient. Or simply not interested in European views, conservative or not.

The Spiegel article is rather good, hard to disagree with factually. It's tenor is more Germanic than leftist. Germans tend to believe in earning one's living - they're not so keen on entitlement and exceptionalism.

"your a kraut antiamerican surrender monkey" - was soll das denn heissen? - not to mention that your entire sentence is missing a "Verb". while your use of insult based adjectives are somewhat energetic, I suggest you learn to use English properly first. it's "you're". And before you get all huffy puffy thinking I am German sorry to burst "your" bubble but i'm Born n' (and) raised in the heartland of southern ohio. yee-haw buddy.

Southern Ohio eh? My folks are from Cincinnati, I lived there for ages (go Ocho). I'm there every year for the holidays.

I.O - my friend. Im actually from dayton, but hey its more southern than cleveland :D. But im in the nati regularly. Go bucks!

It seems that Der Spiegel employs 80 fulltime fact checkers and was described by Columbia Journalism Review as 'most likely the world's largest fact checking operation'. But maybe they're all Commies or vegetarians - you can't keep those pesky Reds under the bed.

Chomsky, by the way, is regarded in Europe as one of THE great intellectuals and has overflow houses wherever he goes (except Israel - they won't let him). Can't make these pesky Europeans see sense either.