It is why the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was created, and it remains the raison d'etre for every one of our efforts.

The PLO was created in 1964.

Clearly the "raison d'etre for every one of your efforts" then, isn't to end the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank, which wasn't even extant until three years later in 1967. The only "occupation" at the time was that which came about when Israel was created and indeed, the PLO was created to liberate ALL of Israel.

This is one of those unintentionally honest moments by a Palestinian spokesperson.

Is that the best you can do. Why was Israel created? Israel wants ALL of Palestine.

The facts are so against you time and time and time again but you keep thinking by saying all your misguided facts and hasbara we all will believe you.

Israel has proven that they don't want peace, they want land. Enough said. So attack and smear all you want. You and the rest of your pro-israeli apologists aren't doing yourselves any favors, your destroying yourselves, your just way to stupid to see or even acknowledge it.

This article was spot on and you know it. Israel wan't ALL if Palestine. If the situation was reversed the jews would be fighting like hell and dirty too.

Davidin DC is insiting on imprisoning himself in a Ghetto of lies and refusal to see the truth. Not strange for an apologist.

In many comments, no matter how many facts one provides to him, with links, with logic, he still can't get over it and live in the present.

The PLO he was slagging off changed its strategy long time ago, perhaps long time ago that David in DC was young or not even born: 1974.

The PLO's parliament, the Palestinian National Council, removed all items related to the destruction of Israel, in the presence of former US president Clinton, and later those changes got recognized by the STATE OF ISRAEL and its army, the IDF.

It's very simplel to know that. Just google it, David, before you make any comment so as not to embarrass yourself again and again.

his next coment is going to be one of these:

1) Telling you that the Palestinian must reocgnize Israel as a new Taleban state, a Jewish one that is.

2) Copying and pasting the PLO charter before its amendments.

3) Telling you that Israel is immune to criticism b/c it's the "only democracy in the Middle East".

4) All of the above.

No need to set up strawman arguments, Gagheer. My point stands and the logic is inescapable.

And the fact is, if the Palestinian spokesman is going to lie about events of almost 50 years ago that don't really matter, of course he will lie about recent events when the truth reveals which side is not ready for compromise. It would be nice to be proven wrong and see the Palestinians finally sit at the table ready to make a deal, but I don't expect it. If they were willing to meet the Israelis half way, they would have done so already rather than trying to gain everything unilaterally with no need to compromise.

Americans understand this. It's not exactly rocket science to understand why there is no negotiated settlement when one side refuses to negotiate.

Please, Gagheer, post this.

I don't think this matters one way or the other, but if you say it was finally amended I would like to see it. I was unaware they finally got around to it.

My understanding has always been that the Palestinians talked about amending their Charter but never actually did it, and that this was just more double talk. For the West - point to statements where they say they will amend it; for the home crowd - say it was never really amended. It's not like they haven't had time to do it, they agreed to amend it like 15 years ago and so far to my knowledge...nothing.

Great Jthomas. Did you catch the video of the Palestinian spokesman saying the charter wasn't changed? What, you missed that? It was linked in the same the same Wikipedia article from which you quoted.

What we see is exactly what I said - a lot of agreeing to change the Charter, no changing. It's not like they haven't had time, they made this agreement 15 years ago.

Great. The fact remains...it wasn't.

Just as the fact remains that the PLO wasn't created in 1964 to end an occupation that didn't exist until 1967. Perhaps it is churlish of me to point out this uncomfortable fact, but the ambassador lied through his teeth to us, knowing that most Americans don't know this history. (But I'm sure he is being completely honest when he talks about the offers. /sarc)

That the Zionists wanted ALL of historic Palestine from the start, and used mass terror and ethnic cleansing to achieve this goal. Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Benny Morris have made this abundantly clear.

So what does Israel now want? What they failed to get in 1948. They continue to colonize the West Bank and do everything they can to convince the Palestinians to abandon what little of their homeland they have left.

Hopefully, Iran will get nukes and scare Israel into making peace.

Here's the simple history.
The British Mandate for Palestine, also known as the Palestine Mandate and the British Mandate of Palestine, was a legal commission for the administration of Palestine, the draft of which was formally confirmed by the Council of the League of Nations on 24 July 1922 and which came into effect on 26 September 1923. The document was based on the principles contained in Article 22 of the draft Covenant of the League of Nations and the San Remo Resolution of 25 April 1920 by the principal Allied and associated powers after the First World War. The mandate formalised British rule in the Southern part of Ottoman Syria from 1923–1948. With the League of Nations' consent on 16 September 1922, the UK divided the Mandate territory into two administrative areas, Palestine, under direct British rule, and autonomous Transjordan, under the rule of the Hashemite family from Hijaz Saudi Arabia, in accordance with the McMahon Pledge of 1915. Transjordan was exempt from the Mandate provisions concerning the Jewish National Home. The Jewish National Home, promised by the League of Nations in 1922 was from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. Transjordan was the home of the Palestinians. Jerusalem was the capital of the Jewish state. Simple. Now everyone shut up and give the Jews what they promised or undo the whole deal. No Jordan. No Syria. No Lebanon. They were created under the same League of Nations.
Simple.

"Ya'alon's inflammatory rhetoric is designed to disguise the simple truth that the conflict between Israel and the Arab and Muslim worlds is the result of Israel's occupation of Palestinian and Arab territory"

This is such a load of bunk. If this is true, why did Palestinian Arabs begin massacring Palestinian Jews in 1920, more than a quarter century before the state of Israel existed? Modern Palestinians are reaping the rewards of the violence of their grandfathers and great uncles.

The lobby shills will not believe what you tell them because they are paid to do just that: Spreading lies and lies until everyone believes them.

What's below is from another thread, regarding the same point. If Netanyahu was lying, the then Israeli Def Minister was lying, then obviously David in DC is talking about another Israel - something that only he knows about. Or, he implying that Israeli leaders and Pres Clinton were all too stupid to see that with their eyes.
------------------------------------
"Israeli Reactions to the PNC Vote in Gaza
December 14, 1998
PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU:
(Communicated by Prime Minister's Media Advisor)"

"Prime Minister Netanyahu expressed his satisfaction at the result of the PNC vote today, achieved as a result of the firm stance taken by the Government of Israel on the issue of the vote to revoke those clauses in the Palestinian Charter calling for the destruction of the State of Israel."

But, hey!, what would he know? He was just the Prime Minister, when everyone knows that the Israeli defense establishment really runs Israel.

So let's ignore the Prime Minister and hear what the Israeli Defense Minister of 1998 had to say

"DEFENSE MINISTER MORDECHAI:
(Communited by Defense Minister's Media Advisor)
Defense Minister Yitzhak Mordechai, said today (Monday) 14.12.98, welcomed the process of the ratification of Yasser Arafat's letter to President Clinton in Gaza today."

"The Defense Minister said that the clear support of those PNC members present and the representatives of the other senior Palestinian institutions in the ratification of Arafat's letter to Clinton, with the cancellation of those clauses in the Palestinian Charter calling for the destruction of Israel represents an important and crucial step in the carrying out of basic Palestinian commitments undertaken in agreements in Israel and particularly the Wye Agreement."
-----------------------------

But why wouldn't one listen to Israeli officials' satisfaction with the amended PLO charter? and why spread lies about the PLO charter?

Because the lobby misinformation campaign is based on the game of "charters", "who started war first", and "the only democracy in the middle east". They just don't have anything more to add except denying facts.

Abbas is recognized internationally, and his renunciation of violence is a fact known to all - including the Israeli public. Therefore, the Likud can't call him a violent thug, and Prime Minister Fayyad is building, not inciting to violence, so the IDF has no reason to raid West Bank cities..

These two leaders found the way to embarrass Netanyahu and the Israeli right-wing, and it turned out to be cost-free and very easy: Waging peace.

The Arab position has essentially been unchanged for the last 75 years - No Jewish state, no Jewish rights, no Jews allowed. Note that I said Arab, and not Palestinian. That's because the Arab world has less interest in the creation of a Palestinian state than the Israelis. They see it as nothing more than a tool for undermining Israel's existence without having to get their own hands dirty.

And just to address a few points raised by my "colleagues" here.

Israel is less a theocracy than the United Kingdom, whose head of state, the Queen, is also recognized as titular head of the Church of England. There are no laws in Israel stating that legislation must be based on the Old Testament, the Talmud, the kabbalah, or any other Jewish holy book. On the other hand, there are 56 countries who see Islam as so major a component of their national existence that they have banded together to form the Organization of Islamic Countries. Anyone ever hear of the Organization of Catholic countries? How about the Organization of Bhuddist countries? And how many of these Islamic countries have provisions in their respective constitutions requiring that laws passed by the national legislature be based on Sharia law? I believe you can include the PNA in that last number.

In re the revision of the PLO Charter to remove the anti-Israel provisions , I invite any of the readers or posters here to publish a copy or a link to this revised Charter. In short, that revised charter does not exist. What's more, the Fatah Charter (Fatah comprising the bulk of the PLO membership) also contains anti-Israel provisions that no one ever promised would be removed.

The Palestinian recognition of Israel as a Jewish state is just as important as the Israeli recognition of a future Palestinian state's Arab nature. Otherwise a case could be made that Israel reserves the right to return the descendants of the residents of Hebron (not the adjacent Kiryat Arba settlement that now exists) that were ethnically cleansed in 1929 to their old homes along with the restoration of their property. The same case could be made for Shechem (aka Nablus), Jericho and a number of other West Bank cities.

Israel already controls all of what the Arabs would like the rest of the world to consider as Palestine (the term "Palestine" or the Roman "Palestina" at one time also was used to describe what are now parts of Syria, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia plus all of Jordan). What's more, the control is legitimized in international law by the 1994 treaty between Jordan and Israel and the 1979 treaty between Egypt and Israel, wherein the two Arab states formally relinquished their claims to the West Bank and Gaza, respectively.

Finally, the myth that Israel's existence is the foundation of the friction between Islam and the West - The Muslim Brotherhood, of which Al-Qaeda, Hamas and the Taliban, among others, are offshoots, was established in 1928, 20 years BEFORE the re-establishment of the Jewish state. The Muslim Brotherhood's goal is the reclamation of all formerly (and presently) Islamic lands from Indonesia to Spain and the re-establsihment of the predominance of Sharia law . It sees Western civilization as evil and corrupt. The last time I looked, Western civilization comprised far more than just Israel.

You link to an INTENT to revise the PLO Charter, but not to the revised charter itself, which does not exist. A document is not revised until the actual revision takes place. That someone says they are going to do revise a document does not automatically revise the document. Based on your logic, we didn't need for the Bill of Rights to be added to the US Constitution, only a letter from the founding fathers that they intended to add it at some point.

I can't say that I'm familiar with every utterance emanating from Mr Netanyahu, but I don't recall him ever saying that he beleives the PLO Charter was amended to remove its anti Israel provisions. He signed on to the Wye Accord, whcih called for the PLO to follow through on its promise to amend the Charter, but I don't recall a statement from him that he believes they did.

Of course the way to end the entire discussion would be to produce the amended Charter.

Netanyahu said he was happy with the vote to amend the charter, not that he believes the Charter was actually amended.

Some people have a wonderful way with words.

If you can show me a copy of the "abrogated" Palestine Covenant, I would love to see it.

Mr Netanyahu also said - "While the PLO repeatedly committed itself to amend the charter..., no changes have been made despite occasional claims to the contrary."
- From "A Durable Peace: Israel and its Place Among the Nations", Grand Central Publishing. 2002, P. 203.

BTW, I'm an American, born and raised in the USA and a US Army veteran to boot.

You admit to living in a one-party dictatorship, and yet complain about alternative viewpoints claiming that they are of all things 'unfair'.
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Maybe when Egyptians begin to live in a real democracy, they will understand what free speech is all about, and why dissenting opinions have their own real weight regardless of whether or not one agrees with them.

At which time, the UN can hand them a fresh copy of UNSC 242 and 338.
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You can't have land for peace, without trading land for peace.
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Wake me when the Palestinians are ready to live side by side in a normalized relationship with Israel. Unfortunately, its been five years, and the Palestinians yet cannot figure out which path they are going to travel down. Armed conflict, or negotiated peace. At this point, the leverage seems to lie with violence and its representative of HAMAS.
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As David in DC points out, the used-car salesman tactics don't hold water in the real world. Bait and switch on charters are meaningless to the real negotiators and the Israeli electorate who, after the 10-year suicide bombing rocket war, have lost what little faith they had in the Palestinians.
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It means little if they convince people like you. They need to convince the people of Sderot and Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

There is some truth to the idea that the Palestine thing jams up certain endeavors in the ME.

The real kicker is Arab League has been getting a pass for eons - their refusal to assimilate all those Nakbahteers, their apartheid laws against them in like Syria or Lebanon and the Kuwaiti expulsion over nearly 250K after Desert Storm, the 3 No's of Khartoum etc - all these things argue Little Satan ain't the problem - and would be a wonderful basis for generous Right of Relocation checks to finance the strategic realignment of the entire ME with the most literate Arabs ever on the face of the earth.

Palestinians (particularly those in Gaza), are more hostage to the oppressive regimes like hamas, then anything Israeli can bring upon them.

They can be free when they:

1. Respect the religion by which the Israelis believe in themselves. NOT mock, denigrate or otherwise deny the legitimacy of Judaism. (Quote from Late Arafat "The claim that Al Aqsa is placed on top Jews Second Temple, is a myth).

2. Stop demading such concessions from Israel - knowing full well absolut majority of Jews and Israelis can not, and will not accept. such as:
a) demand the return of 6M Arab Palestinians in the state of Israel. After which, Jews would become minorities in their own country.
b) Demand the re-division of Jerusalem, and control Jews Holiest site, through control of E. Jerusalem.

3. Stop the daily poisoning of Palestinian children with hatred of Jews, and the need of their destruction and enslavement as command from Allah.

Cut the crap. which one of my thesis above do you have problem with?. Palestinian are more oppressed by Hamas then the Israelis can do. that is fact.

Even among themselves the Pals can't get alone. The whole so-called "Palestinian people" is concocted by the Arabs to slap legitimacy of this group. Where in reality, they are made of diverse groups with little common ground among them - except that is, their mutual hatred of Jews and the common desire to destroy Israel.

The former Jordanians who live in WB & E. Jerusalem, feel little or no connection to those Egyptians living in Gaza. The same is true with those living in refugee camps throughout the Arab states

For my own part, I believe that the key to peace in the region is the acceptance by both sides of the other's right to nationhood and self determination.

However, since you raise the issue of who concocted what story, here are a couple of morsels for you to munch on -

The term "Palestine" used to describe a governmental unit (i.e., province, district, country) had not been in use for over a thousand years until the League of nations titled the mandate it gave to the UK. And when it was used, it variously described provinces and subdistricts of a Syrian province in the empires that controlled the region from the Romans (Syria Palestina) to the Caliphate. Never once in all that time did it describe a sovereign state or an indigenous people.

The first known use of "Palestine" in a nationalist sense was as the title of a publication known as "Filastin" which first appeared in 1911.

The deputation of local Arab notables that appeared before the King-Crane commission, sent by US president Woodrow Wilson to the ME after WWI, lobbied for inclusion in a future Syrian state. They made no case for the creation of an Arab "Palestine".

Until the 1930's most local Arab residents considered themselves Syrians, not Palestinians. On the other hand, most Jewish residents of the British mandate considered themselves as Palestinians until 1948.

The reason that Palestinian refugees (and their descendants) have not been allowed to assimilate into the populations of the countries to which they fled in 1948 (the limited exception to this is Jordan) is because those countries fear that once assimilated, these people would have no reason to rmember their origin and have no interest in a Palestinian peoplehood. As a matter of fact, with the limited exception of Jordan, no country in the Arab world allows anyone of Palestinian ancestry to become a citizen and all of these countries restrict the rights of Palestinians to one extent or another.

On the other hand, Zionism (aka the resotration of a Jewish state) has existed for over 2,000 years. It has been a part of Jewish culture as well as religion. Every Passover Jews around the world recite the line "Next Year in Jerusalem!". One of David's Psalms contains the line - "If I forget thee O Jerusalem, may my my right hand wither and my tongue cleave to my palate..."

After he conquered Jerusalem in 70 AD, the Roman emperor Titus built an arch to commemorate the feat. Inside the arch he inscribed the words "Judaea et Capta" (Judea is captured) along with carvings depicting people in chains carrying a seven branched menorah. The Arch of Titus still stands today in Rome.

To dismiss the right of Jews to their own national narrative, or for that matter, of the Palestinians to theirs only prolongs the agony. But then again, you believe that the murder of innocent Jews is OK.

Or they should be made to live in in a German refugee camp, Berlin, or in a refugee camp in New Delhi for tens of millions "refugees" from Pakistan ot in a Jewish refugee camp in Israel for 4 million Jews fled Arab countries.

Indeed, you listed the absolute truth about the miserable state under which the Innocent Pals are forced to live by their own leaders.

I will be curious to read those pundits agree to put the responsibility to this mess equally on Hamas itself.

Israel has arrested children who are teenagers throwing rocks at civilian cars and ambulances driving by, you forgot to mention that, the poor innocent kids were just walking to school and got arrested or did they come out of the mosque and school and for some reason started throwing rocks at civilian cars, you know that is pretty dangerous mr ambassador .

...than have died by Hamas "missiles" in the past five years. The murder rate in St. Louis, Missouri today is higher than that of Tel Aviv at the height of the second intifadeh. Let's not play games--Israel's "security issue" compared to its neighbors and even other Western nations is really a non-issue.

As for Jerusalem, it will unfortunately always be a religious flashpoint. I wish it weren't, but it's reality. The fair thing to do is officially split it into two, as has already been done "unofficially".

More American died in auto accidends .than have died by Al-Quada 9-11 attack Let's not play games--US 's "security issue" compared to its neighbors and even other Western nations is really a non-issue.

BTW, Do you know if anybody promise to wipe out St. Louis, Missouri from the face of the earth
Is there anybody out there says something like the following about More American died in auto accidends ...
...than have died by Al-Quada 9-11 attack Let's not play games--US 's "security issue" compared to its neighbors and even other Western nations is really a non-issue.

BTW, Do you know if anybody promise to wipe out St. Louis, Missouri from the face of the earth
Is there anybody out there says something like the following about St. Louis:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."

"

More American died in auto accidends .than have died by Al-Quada 9-11 attack Let's not play games--US 's "security issue" compared to its neighbors and even other Western nations is really a non-issue.

BTW, Do you know if anybody promise to wipe out St. Louis, Missouri from the face of the earth
Is there anybody out there says something like the following about More American died in auto accidends ...
...than have died by Al-Quada 9-11 attack Let's not play games--US 's "security issue" compared to its neighbors and even other Western nations is really a non-issue.

BTW, Do you know if anybody promise to wipe out St. Louis, Missouri from the face of the earth
Is there anybody out there says something like the following about St. Louis:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."

"

More American died in auto accidends .than have died by Al-Quada 9-11 attack Let's not play games--US 's "security issue" compared to its neighbors and even other Western nations is really a non-issue.

BTW, Do you know if anybody promise to wipe out St. Louis, Missouri from the face of the earth
Is there anybody out there says something like the following about More American died in auto accidends ...
...than have died by Al-Quada 9-11 attack Let's not play games--US 's "security issue" compared to its neighbors and even other Western nations is really a non-issue.

BTW, Do you know if anybody promise to wipe out St. Louis, Missouri from the face of the earth
Is there anybody out there says something like the following about St. Louis:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."

"

buddy...simply stating a completely irrelevant fact like "more americans die in auto accidents..." is what's called "grasping for air"...you don't have a valid point.

The fact is, since you seem to value numbers, that while Israel certainly gets attacked more often than the United States...: since 1987 Israel has lost an estimated 1,540 people to terror related incidents.

Since 1983 the United States has lost 3,800. Directly. indirectly, when considering the wars in Af/pak/iraq/somalia/yemen...that number climbs north of 10,000.

So while I feel for Israel, and I truly do...and while I realize that daily life in Israel is probably more dangerous with regards to terror...for now, I do not think that you are some kind of persecuted minority who always gets abused...that's BS.

The U.S. has lost way more people to terror, and is suffering largely because of our support for (wait for it)...YOU!!!!...Israel.

You fly our planes and helicopters, use our guns, fire our missiles, and exist under our defense umbrella. So if you want to talk smack...you can do it to anybody BUT the U.S.

Because, as all the world except Israel seems to realize, a Jewish nation wouldnt exist without the support of the United States. get over yourselves.

" I do not think that you are some kind of persecuted minority who always gets abused...that's BS."
Jews are not get abused today due to in large degree to help of US.
However, Jews today is the only minority that is being threatened with extinction:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees"

My only question is, what can we do about the Palestinians who say they will die before they let go of so called the right of return, i.e. the right to flood Israel with 7 millions Arabs? Wouldn't we have to kill a lot of them?

More Americans HAVE died in auto accidents than died on 9/11. In fact, America is one of the safest places on earth to live, statistically speaking--less safe than Western Europe (and Israel), but obviously more safe than the majority of Africa, Asia, and the Middle East. America's greatest blunder was to allow bin Laden to inspire absolute terror over those 3,000 deaths, causing the American public to place complete trust in their government as Bush & Co attacked anyone with a Muslim-sounding name. Over a million people have died because of that panic--far more innocent Iraqis and Afghans have been killed by Americans than vice-versa. Just like Israelis and Palestinians. Glad we agree!

Oh, and Islam, like all Abrahamic religions, is absolutely violent. Again, agreement! Here's my favorite verse about infidels in the Holy City:

"And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire. And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

Numbers 31, chronicling the god-sanctioned genocide of the Midianites. Great stuff!

I'm glad you like US like you like Israel.

the population and you will get a big number for Israel not so big for america
1500/7000,000 for some reason most poeple who died were jews,
or compare 3500/ 350000000.
\
It is irrelevent for the numbers the country has a duty to protect its citizens no matter what happens in saint lewis or if there is even one murder just like happened in Israel today , two arabs stabbed a woman to death , how brave.

Uh, Roni, your argument is a bit self-defeating. He's saying to kick the settlers out of what will be Palestine. Those would be "the Jews" in question. Even Israel's own government has agreed to go along with that, should a two-state solution be implemented: dismantle all Israeli settlements inside Palestine (but keep the big ones for themselves as part of Israel).

And you entirely misrepresented Abbas' position on Lebanon's Palestinians. He would like a Right of Return akin to that of the Jewish Right of Return, in which people of Palestinian descent would be able to return to Palestine automatically once the state is founded.

And really, Roni, your last argument is so mind-bogglingly dumb that it doesn't even deserve comment. Libya and Palestine do not have much in common beyond the fact that they're both Muslim Arab countries. It's like saying that Belarus and France are identical because we're both white Christian countries, and therefore either one or the other does not deserve to exist because there are a lot of other white Christian European countries anyway.

Finally,

"They would like nothing more for the Palestinians to be free"

Where'd you hear that? The poll showing that the majority of young Israelis oppose equal rights for Arabs? The one showing that a majority of Israelis favor continued settlement building?

I guess I'm just too dumb to fool myself like you have. But go ahead - take the democratic challenge - of the 22 Arab countries in which one of them are all who live there truly free? Syria, Lebanon? Jordan? Egypt? Which Palestinian grouping actually proposes egalité and fraternité for everyone, including Jews - the separate state of West Bank Palestine or the separate state of Gaza?

Erekat is calling for Sharia compliant apartheid state predicated on the ethnic cleansing of Jews. To argue that the Israeli government recognizes that such an arrangement would not bode well for the security of Jewish communities in that context does not change the inherent racism of the official "moderate" Palestinian position. One interesting idea floated by the Israelis was to allow these communities to continue under an income generating lease arrangement.

And whereas Netanyahu as been advocating the expansion of QOS trade zones which helps both the Palestinian and the Israeli economy, and example of enlightened mutual interests, the PA has been passing counter-productive legislation aimed at curbing economic relationships between Palestinians and Israelis. According to the PA, they only win when everyone loses.

Abbas has been following the long held Arab tradition of perpetuating the refugee's circumstances while lining the pockets of the elites. It's all for show - see the misery of the poor refugee - well "Israel caused it" and we made sure to maintain these conditions and prevent any noticeable improvements for over sixty years. Equal rights for ethnic Palestinians born in Arab countries - can't have that - our people might actually fit in and lose their sense of outrage!

So yes, the suffering is there, but the cause is not Israel, it's ideology. And its the same problem in other Arab countries as well. It's not up to Israel to "give" the Palestinians their freedom because it is not Israel that is withholding it from them. It's their own leaders. One also has to recognize that Hamas and Fatah hate each other almost as much if not more than they hate Israel, and both are out there courting sponsors, actual democratic freedoms be damned. Yet we make the mistake of not demanding these reforms as a condition for our aid. Adding sufficient audit controls to see where the money is going would be another good idea.

As the Scots like to say, fool me once shame on you. Fool me 23 times - shame on me.

You should see a doctor man. Palestinians must be free because they deserve freedom and an independent state.