Rise of the Hans

Why a dominant China could spark tribal warfare.

BY JOEL KOTKIN | JANUARY 17, 2011

When Chinese President Hu Jintao comes to Washington this week, there aren't likely to be many surprises: Hu and Barack Obama will probably keep their conversation to a fairly regulated script, focusing on trade and North Korea and offering the expected viewpoints on both. But seen from a different angle, everything in that conversation could be predicted, not from current events but from longstanding tribal patterns.

With China's new prominence in global affairs, the Han race, which constitutes 90 percent of the Chinese population, is suddenly the most dominant cohesive ethnic group in the world -- and it is seeking to remain that way through strategic alliances, aggressive trade policy, and attacks on racial minorities within the country's boundaries. The less tribally cohesive, more fragmented West is, meanwhile, losing out.

Almost 20 years ago, I wrote a book called Tribes that sought to trace the role of ethnicity, race, and religion in economic and geopolitical affairs. At the time, there was some skepticism about the continuing influence of ethnicity; some considered the work, frankly, regressive and racist. Now, however, my thesis from 1992 has really come to fruition. We are living in the age of tribes -- and China is just the start.

Such primitive racial instincts were supposed to be long ago passé: We're supposed to be living in Thomas Friedman's "flat" world or Kenichi Ohmae's "borderless world." By now, supposedly, everyone is increasingly interconnected and undifferentiated. Affairs should be managed neatly by deracinated professionals, working on their iPads from Brussels, Washington, or any of the other "global" capitals.

But most people do not really see themselves as members of a large multinational unit, global citizens, or "mass consumers." Instead the drivers of history remain the essentials: the desire to feed one's family, support the health of the tribe, and shape the immediate community. The particularistic continues to trump the universalistic.

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This has only become more evident as our world becomes more multipolar. During the 19th and much of the 20th century, the world was dominated by a European capitalist mindset that glossed over many of the ethnic and racial differences simmering under the surface in the regions under its rule. Particular groups, including Chinese, Muslims, or Hindu Indians, might have harbored a sense of unique identity but, for the most part, either melded into the Euro-American mold, or, after the Russian Revolution of 1917, into the alternative Soviet one.  

Today this has changed dramatically, as once suppressed racial and ethnic groups express their power on a global level. The rise of Chinese national identity, increasingly stripped of its socialist clothing, must be seen as the driving force behind the new tribalism. The country's re-emergence as a great world power expresses the cultural ascendency not so much of Marxism or Maoism but of the Han race, which in only a few decades could control the world's largest economy.

This represents a major shift in the identity of the Chinese tribe, a combination of political and economic power with a very homogeneous worldview. The best way to explain China's economic and foreign policy is most accurately seen as a tribal expression of what Friedrich Nietzsche called a "will to power." Essentially, the Han has become a tribal superpower that treats other groups -- from China's non-Han minority to much of the rest of the world -- as a vast semi-colonial periphery. And with its growing economic and military might, Han China may soon be able to impose its will on some of these "lesser" cultures, should it desire.

STR/AFP/Getty Images

 

Joel Kotkin is a distinguished presidential fellow in urban futures at Chapman University and an adjunct fellow at the Legatum Institute in London. He is author of The Next Hundred Million: America in 2050 and Tribes: How Race, Religion and Identity Determine Success in the Global Economy.

XTIANGODLOKI

12:54 PM ET

January 17, 2011

Natinalism in China is real but ethntic superiority angle is bs

If Han Chinese think they are so superior then why are so many of them marrying people of other races outside of China? Even within China, why don't the local Chinese people get all that angry like many caucasians in the US still do with black dating whites, when they see male caucasians dating Han girls?

If anything in China the state is creating tons of propaganda to get people of different ethnic backgrounds to celebrate on their similarities. Whereas the US media is keen to get people from different backgrounds to notice the differences. The US approach intentionally create tribalism. When it comes to CHina the US' media often angle reeks of racism: oh noes the bad yellow people are going to take us over! It was the Japanese back in the 80s, now it's the Chinese. Next they will go after the "brown" people of India as India becomes a power.

 

HURRICANEWARNING

2:56 PM ET

January 17, 2011

"If Han Chinese think they

"If Han Chinese think they are so superior then why are so many of them marrying people of other races outside of China?"

while i agree with you that this does happen (almost exclusively in the big cities among educated people) I would love to see the numbers on this. just how many Chinese families are really okay with their daughters and sons marrying foreigners?? Or ethnically/ racially different peoples?? Im just saying....I bet it's not many. It happens...but it's not the norm.

that said, at over 91% of the population, the Han, and China in general remind me of some European countries in terms of the tribal make up. So Im not sure just how important this all is with regards to China and its rise to power.

 

MONGO46538

3:18 PM ET

January 17, 2011

People are tribal by nature

One of my favorite sayings when trying to understand the behaviour of people where I work. This gets compounded by our identification of ourselfs by city or region or state. We identify with those we went to high school with. We still feel strongly about our sport rivalries. We identify with people from our own state. ever been on vacation and run across some stranger who is from the same area and suddenly feel a bond that wasn't there before you began to converse. I think it goes all the way back (dare I say) the evolutionary scale. Monkeys are tribal by nature. We seek the companionship of those others of our own species that we have the most common knowlege and bonds with and differentiate ourselves from other of our species based upon these commonalities, real or supposed.
This is the basis for racial, religious and ethnic tension across the globe. It's how we deal with our primal fears and insecurities.
Those in power exploit these primal fears by using terms like patriotism and terrorism, infidel and believer.

Seems far fetched but think about it. KOTKIN is spot on.

 

JMBELAN

9:38 AM ET

January 18, 2011

we may be tribal by nature

we may be tribal by nature but that doesn't mean that the tribes we belong to are consistent over time or that a group of nearly one billion Chinese or 175 million Brazilians are well understood as a tribe. Human beings are also capable of leaving their "tribe" and mixing it with others. That's why there are no biological races. We are also multiracial and almost of us are multicultural. That's a fact of human demography and cultural interaction.

 

NETHEO

3:19 PM ET

January 17, 2011

Ignorance

I am so disappointed for this one. The most fundamental fallacious assumption is that the Han race is a homogeneous one or that the 90 percent of Chinese population is "cohesive." Also you might want to separate the people from the government. The gap between them is larger than the "West". I'm sorry your internationalist world view seems not shared by other tribes; yet please explain why an arbitrarily defined East-West divide does not contradict the philosophy behind that internationalism. Hypocrisy?
Ethnicity does matter. But its effect is not uniformly the same across all cultures and races. If anything should be abandoned, it should be ethnocentric world views. How about giving anglo-american-centric ideas a try before a preemptive attack on sinocentric idea which has not even appeared--only imagined by people such as yourself?
"the Han has become a tribal superpower that treats other groups...as a vast semi-colonial periphery." Back it up please. Even if you do, the "anglo-american" race should be pretty much guilty of the same charge.

 

BETALOVER

4:44 PM ET

January 17, 2011

Look at the picture

Look at the picture of East Asian faces embracing the 5-star flag and one should ask who the Hans are.

Is there a Mongolian Chen among them? Quite possibly.

Just as there are many Russian Natalie Wood's in the USA, there are many Mongolia, Tibetan, or Manchurian Chens in China. For each successive generation, more and more ethnic minorities will want to get ahead in life and deliberately assimilate by jettisoning a traditional culture, a la Natalie Wood (actually for her starting from her parents but quite possibly no grandparents or great-grandparents). A white face is the ticket, anglo-saxon is a personal choice.

Many of Tiger Woods’ alleged white mistresses will elicit a certain strange feeling on many people; may be people will be awed by the American social progress that leads to social inclusion in courtship and marriage or, just as easily, concerned about racial purity.

Look at Bill Clinton’s mistress Monica Lewinsky. Do you think of the great American anti-Slav sentiment just a century earlier? Who is Lewinsky? How Slavic is she? 25%? Less? How did she become, say, 25% Lewinsky? If she is only 25% Slavic, is this some sort of personal tragedy? Why don’t people approach the Clinton/Lewinsky affair from a sociological perspective of America overcoming its anti-Slav history?

In China, anyone of an East Asian face that has a single syllable family name and speaks a Han Dialect is a Han.

Someone who wants to expound on racial injustice in China is socially oblivious and/or politically fervent.

 

MISHMAEL

5:30 PM ET

January 17, 2011

First of all, i would like to

First of all, i would like to express my appreciation for a very interesting article. I happen to disagree with the author on many points, but he is right - being politically correct (at least in the anglo-saxon sense) in unecessary.

I believe the author is failing to appreciate the difference between race and ethnicity. For example, it is ludicrous to speak of an "American" race while an American nationality certainly exists. I would argue that a similar phenomenon occurs in China. Over centuries, ethnic distinctions have both separated and blended together to such an extent that it is misleading (for Han people) to identify themselves with their ethnicity. In fact, it is their Chinese nationality, the status of being a citizen of the People's Republic of China, that holds more prestige.

Since this is so, the Han people will be extremely unlikely to engage in ethnic conflict. It cannot achieve their ultimate goal of national rejuvenation. A more accurate model for Han motives is in ancient Rome, where the best practices, talents, achievements, industries, and even people of other ethnicities were readily accepted into the body politic to strengthen the state.

Contrary to what commentators believe, Han people do not regard other ethnicities as inferior, certainly not in a racist manner where they strip other ethnicities of their humanity. In Chinese history, it was always the Chinese state that dominated, while the Han as an ethnic group were indifferent to other groups. Unlike America, there is less controversy with the ethnic minority in positions of influence (ie with someone like Obama). So long as they are competent that is.

I think what the author was trying to do was to stimulate, with bold , brazen statements, a kind of self-congratulatory feeling in America over its multi-ethnicity. Not sure if that is going to work.

 

RUI

1:32 AM ET

January 18, 2011

Bingo

The Han ethnicity grew so large because it was not defined by blood but by cultural affiliation. Today's Han Chinese are a mixture of once distinct cultures and tribes that existed within the Chinese landmass. Calling it an "ethnicity" is misleading. There are/were many other ethnicities that contributed to the Chinese nation and can claim China as theirs just as much as the Han. If you speak Chinese and share in China's hopes and dreams, then ethnicity doesn't matter.
If I were to choose between my Han identity or my Chinese identity, I'd go with Chinese all the way.

 

RUI

1:55 AM ET

January 18, 2011

Beautiful example

China's current president Hu Jintao came from "barbarian" stock. Not that anybody knows or cares. Just look up the origins of his surname on Wikipedia (Hu).

 

FEYNMANFANGIRL

7:34 AM ET

January 18, 2011

Yeah, that's the Han story

And if you asked a 19th century American the Dawes Act was the epitome of harmonious coexistence with the native tribes. Other ethnic groups within China would likely contest your notion of Han benign neglect ever since China changed from being an empire concerned with outlying territories only insofar as they produced an economic good (like Rome) to a nation state that felt the need to create a unified idea of "China" (much like the US). Just consider the existence of the ETIM or China's continuing restriction of reporting from Tibet. For better or for worse, China wants to be a monocultural society at heart.

As for Hu's "barbarian" roots, that argument is specious to say the least. His non-Han roots had been scrubbed so clean by centuries of acculturation that calling him "Barbarian" is like calling Eisenhower German. Just look up the last name!

Granted, an American reading this article shouldn't feel too self righteous about China's aggressive assimilationist tendencies. The mere suggestion that Obama might have gained some Islamic attitudes through osmosis was enough to cause a minor panic... just imagine if he HAD picked up on any of his father's strange, foreign ways.

This, btw, is written by an ethnic Han who loves her mother country. But let's not romanticize the obvious. Making a nation state that can survive the tumult of time requires breaking a few eggs.

 

RUI

9:44 PM ET

January 18, 2011

Hey, I'm totally with you @FEYNMANFANGIRL

The fact that we've been able to assimilate so many groups into a single culture is something of an achievement. This historical record refutes article's insinuation that Chinese culture is uniquely ethnocentric, intolerant, and exclusive. We have to try not to be; the success of our nation depends on it.

 

SPANISH DIPLOMAT

9:32 PM ET

January 17, 2011

There is not such thing as "the Olive Republics"

To begin with, Spain is a Monarchy. Plus tiny Andorra and Monaco as well.
But, most importantly, Southern Europeans do not feel as a group and it is indeed wrong to assume they do.
You could possibly argue there Latin Europeans, including Portuguese, Spanish, French and Italians. Romanians can qualify as well, if only for linguistic reasons.
But you won't find among these people enough affinity with Balkan peoples. Only the Greeks could be somehow related to the Latin Europeans.
This is not to say there is anything wrong with the non-Latin Europeans. It is simply to state the obvious thing that language, history, and idiosincracies separates us.
But again, even if you could classify the countries I mentioned earlier as Latin Europeans, this is not to say they want to be lumped together; or feel they are each other's prefered partner.
So much for the theory in this article if facts upon which it is based are simply wrong.

 

FEYNMANFANGIRL

7:38 AM ET

January 18, 2011

Romania is kind of a problem case for this article

As you point out, it's a long standing Latin influenced region through language and to a lesser extent culture, but the shock of Communist rule is more powerful in terms of function and outlook than any Romanian identity.

 

ATHOR

10:30 PM ET

January 17, 2011

a big tent

let me make a point by exaggeration: it wasn't so long ago that everyone was an american. all 6 billion of us. it didn't matter if you lived in asia or africa, we all rooted for the USA. not because of high sounding ideals, but because of the simple reality that anyone / everyone could become an american, work hard, be treated based on the value of one's contribution, and live the dream. it really was more of an "earthling dream" rather than an american one. we could all share in it; "could" denoted a very real, concrete possibility, and not some abstract pie in the sky. that, i think, is why the world loved america.

somewhere along the way in the last 30 years, that gradually stopped being true. 9/11, recessions, racism, abu garab, etc. in a way, it doesn't really matter, whether it was america who first slammed her doors in the face of the rest of the world, or they moved on.

what matters, is that the next system to dominate the world is, i *hope*, going to be one that has "something" for the rest of us. an 'earthling dream', so to speak. tribalism really isn't it. i say this not in denial of the current reality, but that "they should be a better way".

-han chinese guy

 

FEYNMANFANGIRL

7:43 AM ET

January 18, 2011

I'm not sure when this magical period was...

Chinese were largely excluded from immigrating until the 1960s, not to mention the long slog through civil rights and all that. Quite honestly, I think you're remembering a Merrie Old America that never was

But hope's always there, and for all this talk of tribalism the world now is a more unified place now than it ever was before... not that that says much.

-Han Chinese girl

 

FLOATINGPOINT

11:40 PM ET

January 17, 2011

It's just nationalism

Most of the things the author mentioned can be explained by the good old nationalism. The emerging "multipolar" world is not that different from the world in 18th century when European powers rose with the driving force of, well, nationalism. Mind you back then they didn't practice free trade and fair competition. The competed with whatever they could use.

Then the US came along, and the nationalism became a little bit more sophisticated, because the populace was mainly composed of two easily distinguishable "tribes" - black and white. Nevertheless, US still owes a lot to nationalism for her greatness. The author simply wants to expanding the US nationalism to other English-speaking countries. That's all.

I am more curious about what would the author suggest European countries do. To be tribally more cohesive, i.e., purge the minorities? This could be a plausible suggestion if he sticks to his own logic.

 

BABALOUD

11:47 PM ET

January 17, 2011

Two points

1. It was very kind of Joel Kotkin to regurgitate parts of Samuel Huntington's famous Clash of Civilizations, an article published in this journal 17 years ago, and then dismiss the late professor for supposedly "missing" a point that could have been expressed by a seventh-grader - that America's legacy of immigration was good for the nation's economic growth. Well done, sir, for producing some truly original thought.

2. The "Olive Republics?" Is Kotkin serious? Including France and Greece in the same "tribe?" The fallacy Kotkin is committing is obvious. Kotkin's not really organizing nations according to any but the loosest of ethnic or cultural ties, which he then suggests dictate the course of economic growth. He's actually organizing nations by their growth trajectories, and then forcing awkward, historically unfounded "tribal organizations" onto nations with similar economic situations. That Germany and the Scandivanian countries all survived the financial crisis unscathed should give no prestidigitator the ability to magically lasso the Germans and Norwegians into one social unit.

 

ZZZ

1:40 AM ET

January 18, 2011

Confucius

As every literate Chinese knows, this is what Confucius had to say about being the dominant state: "when far-away states fail to visit, I shall perfect my arts and virtues to attract them to come." Throughout history that's how China generally conducts itself when unharassed.

 

FEYNMANFANGIRL

7:47 AM ET

January 18, 2011

Every country is a pacifist in its own mind

The Vietnamese and the Koreans would find your view of Chinese history rather surprising.

...Can you tell that it is early in the morning and I have nothing to do but knitpick comments?

 

GRANDEROHO

3:47 AM ET

January 18, 2011

"Self-control is the chief

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage."
— Thucydides

Hopefully China's new found dominance will mean more efficient, prosperous world overall. Sometimes I think when people talk about China is somewhat like Africa, being that many people tend to lump all of the continent and act as if it's one big country with no much variation between each country.

China is so large, and much of how it will develop will be directly from how each province locally develops. Communist party is so tight lipped on that kind of stuff that there are few indicators for where that will go. Americans could learn a lot from Chinese culture.

 

JMBELAN

9:31 AM ET

January 18, 2011

Cultural explanations never grow old

Leaving aside the obvious problems with calling the Han a "race," what possible empirical and analytical value can the term tribe have when applied to almost a billion people? It can't. Economic nationalism has existed for a long time and will continue to exist but attributing to tribal impulses makes it seem immutable whereas policy trends come and go. Brazilians are no more a tribe than are all the people on facebook. Let's try a little harder.

 

JLSULLY

10:50 AM ET

January 18, 2011

Fanning the flames fear

The Han is coming. The Han is coming.

When I was growing up in the fifties we children were told the communist are coming and we feared then greatly. The communist were coming, especially the Soviets and the Chinese, and they would drill holes in our backs, stuff the holes with cotton and gasoline and set us afire… We feared them…

The Han are coming, the Han are coming… This should keep my granddaughter in a state of fear and paranoia until she is a least thirty years old.

In a pathetic way we keep the tribe mentality alive as we kill each other. It’s a shame the human brain is so feeble.

 

LUCHIK33

10:57 AM ET

January 18, 2011

Its a better world

I don't think the world is becoming more tribal. I think it's becoming more globalized and multiracial. This especially applies to a younger generation (my generation) that grew up with the Internet and a globalized economy. All I need to do is look at myself and at the people around me.

I was born and grew up in Russia. Now I live in Canada and speak 3 languages. In my Montreal office I have 5 people sitting around me: a Jewish guy, an Italian-Canadian, an Indian, a Brit and my Swedish manager. I have 4 roommates: Polish girl living with a Mexican guy, a French girl and an Egyptian guy. I've dated girls all over, from Mexico to Iran and Korea. Its not all amazing of course, sometimes we all feel like we don't fit in and it takes time to adopt to certain cultures. Frankly i've recognized long ago it's insecurity issues. However we do live in international world. It doesn't even matter if you speak English. I've travelled all over and got along with practically everybody because we've all watched the same movies, wore the same brands and have similar ideas of the world. I do think that all of the younger people living, dating and working side by side today will reflect upon the future world. All that needs to exist is one basic idea--you judge a person by his character, not by his race or culture. Its a better world :)

 

WERNERGERMAN

11:03 AM ET

January 18, 2011

So much of what we call " white ethnicity " is made up

There are major differences in the way that the Chinese or Asians define the term ethnicity and the way that Europeans in the U.S. define it... the Chinese believe in the simple definition of ancestry from a common ancestor while the " white " majority in the U.S. completely disregard this fundamental concept in favor concepts that stresses common physical attributes with which they would like the world to identify them with as a common " tribe " of the " same " people . Blonde hair , for example. In this sense , our ancestry is made up and that of the Chinese is nothing of the new , they have held on to an ancestral lineage for thousands of years and have practiced ancestor worship for thousands of years.

U.S. was once a nation of the English peoples , the English opened up the land towards the Germans perhaps with the idea of creating a new , more attractive " tribe " of people , the celtics and picts (of which this author doesn't mention in this article for some reason) were disregarded as " white " ... so the U.S. was destined to be a nation of Germanics , a mix of English and German peoples , however , the Celtics and Picts took the concept of the " white " tribe into the criminalistic realm and redefined the concept of the " white " tribe so that it would include them , unfortunately , this concept also included murderous acts towards the " black " tribe.

Our current made up idea of the " white " tribe is inherently a mongrel concept in that our focus and preoccupations is always on people who are not " white " , whereas the Chinese aren't concerned about anything that is beyond their own family affairs. Their lives are mundane , not traveling anywhere else beyond their own familiar domain even for wives , however they have preserved the basics.

We need to cease with what seems to be an unrelenting and perpetual obsession with meddling in what goes on within the private affairs of other cultures , we need to trace our own ancestry in the actual sense and not seek to establish some made up collective concept of what the " white " tribe should be and how they should relate to and meddle with other cultures. We are obsessed with what goes on in other countries because we are skittish about tracing our own actual ancestry . This is especially true for Pictish people , with their desparate vocalizations for being regarded as Germans or Germanic. The advantage in this may be that they simply love German women .

Remember , our tribe isn't Nordic-Germanic , Latin , and Slavic - this is completely made up , a preferential notion , of what the " white " tribe should be. We came from actual tribes , actual ancestors , we are Celtic , Pictish , Germans , Nordic , Slavic , and more - stick to where you came from , respect your ancestry , don't forget how you got here , and don't distort it. ANCESTRY IS SIMPLE , IT'S ALREADY DEFINED FOR YOU , NOTHING SHOULD BE MADE UP ABOUT IT.

 

IMRAN.KAZMI

11:08 AM ET

January 18, 2011

Interesting article, even more interesting comments :)

My my, I've shared this article comments on: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/How-build-MERIT-based-work-3109730.S.39873921?qid=7b07ee5e-164f-4019-87f5-ca93e42ed8db&goback=.gde_3109730_member_39873921.gmp_3109730.gde_3109730_member_39873204.gmp_3109730

And I must say this is how I summarize it:

Syed Muhammad (GPHR) • sorry guys if my comments "volume" upset you, they weren't "MINE" they were simply from the article who's link Paul posted (http://tinyurl.com/4aavlos) which on the face of it appeared VERY INTERESTING & MIND OPENING to me, but by habit I mostly read the comments under an article and the comments were EVEN MORE INTERESTING and MIND OPENING hence I pasted them as separate comments (that they are in reality on the original post) along with some comments of my own.

Thank you Paul! I must say today was a MAJOR learning experience for me on:

1. Tribes

1. China

1. Chinese :)

1. Hans (I knew "Hens" until now or the more "chic" version :)

1. Cultural colors to perceptions of the same "stimuli"

WOW! what a day...

 

FREEMANCHURIA

3:06 PM ET

January 18, 2011

the Han Chinese is a pseudo-concept

I am of the so-called Han ethnicity, but I cannot tell what is the Han Chinese, no one in China can, because the differences between the Hans from different parts of China are even more significant than the differences between European peoples.

I was born and bred in Manchuria, I speak Mandarin as my mother language. Some Han people speak Catonese, which I could not understand at all, not a single word!

Why the hell should we be in the same ethnic group ? We could barely understand eachother if we just speak our own languages!

The Han Chinese is just a imaginary group without any actual bonds among its members much unlike real nations like the German or the Russian.

 

FREEMANCHURIA

3:09 PM ET

January 18, 2011

the Han Chinese is a pseudo-concept

I am of the so-called Han ethnicity, but I cannot tell what is the Han Chinese, no one in China can, because the differences between the Hans from different parts of China are even more significant than the differences between European peoples.

I was born and bred in Manchuria, I speak Mandarin as my mother language. Some Han people speak Catonese, which I could not understand at all, not a single word!

Why the hell should we be in the same ethnic group ? We could barely understand eachother if we just speak our own languages!

The Han Chinese is just a imaginary group without any actual bonds among its members much unlike real nations like the German or the Russian.

 

RUI

9:29 PM ET

January 18, 2011

Nice try, troll

Nobody in "Manchuria" wants to "free Manchuria"

- this is coming from someone actually born and raised in Heilongjiang. My great-grandmother was a Manchu, although my family is majority Han. Trust me when I say ethnicity doesn't matter.

An imaginary group is a real group as long as we believe in it.

 

FREEMANCHURIA

12:43 AM ET

January 19, 2011

Rui for Rui Chenggang ?

Nobody wants free Manchiria in Manchuria.,really ? How do you know that, are you nobody or are you Mr. Rui Chenggang ? You think you get to represent the entire Manchuria ? LMAO

 

LOHA SINGH

3:18 PM ET

January 18, 2011

Chinese Tribalism

The analysis does not explain how or why such a "tribal" people adopted Buddhism's sophisticated message from a foreign land (India), two thousand years ago, and held on to it until today.

Why did they not keep "dancing around a tree"? Why did they stop dancing when they found the Bodhi tree?

I thought it is the other guys who are the tribes - all the children of Abraham. Isn't that why they "quarrel" all the time?

I am just an Asian country boy trying to understand all this urbane discourse.

 

PLEAB

1:35 AM ET

January 19, 2011

Yes, the children of Abraham are the number one problem

It is true. Judaism, Christianity and Islam seem to be locked in some kind death spiral, determined to dance each other to the end of time. All three religions are linked by common themes of domination and submission. Yet their core beliefs are nearly identical.

I think it boils down to the monotheistic nature of all three groups. Each religion demands conformity to a few basic principles. Each group seeks to dominate the non-believers, infidels, goyim and so on. Each group demonstrates thinly veiled contempt for the others. That inevitably leads to conflict.

Now religious zealots are determined to take everyone down with them. They are minorities in most cases but they are cohesive and powerfully deluded. How do you sort out a problem if you are not in any way ammenable to rational arguments? It's a matter of faith they say.

Here we are, faced with enormous problems concerning the future of our world and even our species while stupid people are directing vast resources to accelerating their own self immolation.

If you believe in something strongly enough, you might just make it happened. So they will have their clash of civilizations one way or another. If only the rest of us could be left to get on with building a better world.

 

LOHA SINGH

2:48 PM ET

January 20, 2011

Frankincense, Myrrh and Gold

I know nothing about religion. But I know commodity trading when I see it. It was all about controlling trade routes. It still is.

Let us cut to the chase. You want to start a business - no problemo. Just send me a fax. But play by the rules - same as for all businesses. No nosense about miracles and water to wine, wearing copper bracelets to cure arthritis or threatening people about hell and heaven.

As I said I am from Asia and we invented all this. There is nothig new under the Sun. Everyone wants to sell their "stuff".

But some are still allowed to cheat, make false claims or use threats to market their stuff. And also molest children on the side and throw stones on women.

 

BOXUAN

2:43 AM ET

January 19, 2011

I'm from Dongbei, too

And I'm also a Han Chinese, but I don't want to "free Manchuria", and have never heard of anyone I know wants to do so. Even though there're many different dialects and subcultural groups in China, but the difference is they've been living in one nation for thousands of years. Unlike the Europeans, we know better how to get along with each other.

 

MAKESSENSE

5:09 AM ET

January 19, 2011

China, India, Europe (+ offshoots) getting back to norm

The way I think of it is that until around 1840, China's GDP per annum was greater than all of Western Europe combined. For most of the past 2000 years, the output of China and India together accounted for between 30 and 40 per cent of global GDP.

There was a period of about 150 years from around the mid 1800s when the balance took a hit - due to a whole combination of factors coinciding together so that Europe and its offshoots in South & North America/Australasia temporarily shot away and were responsible for a significantly larger share of global output than one would expect based on long-term patterns.

Things in this century, however, represent a correction to that blip - things are heading back toward normalcy, so we can expect China/India and that region to return back closer to their traditional share of global output.

Big deal?

 

DABLUEKEY

5:20 PM ET

January 19, 2011

Not true

Does the writer know that one child policy does not apply to minorities in China, schools in china uses affirmative actions to help minority get higher education. If anything the Chinese government is open to all ethnicities, the policy in china encourages and celebrate all groups.

 

HANFEITZU

12:20 AM ET

January 20, 2011

Shoddy and Irresponsible Scholarship

This argument was criticized 20 years ago and deserves even harsher criticism today. The author uses the words tribe and race interchangeably and then makes generalizations about state behavior. Not only is race is a social construction but it also does not seem to account for international relations. Han Chinese is historically fluid concept and does not map on to political boundaries. How does the author explain the case of Taiwan's or Singapore's role in the "han tribe"?

At best this is a poorly articulated version of Sam Huntington's much critiqued Clash of Civilizations hypothesis. At worst, it needlessly stirs up nationalism and promotes xenophobia. This is the type of thinking that should not be welcomed in the US or in China.

 

DIE ZAUBERFLOTE

12:52 PM ET

January 20, 2011

If Hans make up 90% of

If Hans make up 90% of China's 1.3 Billion people, the maths work out to 1.17 Billion people of one "race", although ethnicity is a slightly better term. I guess we are the biggest "race"/ethnic group on this earth.

As a Han myself, I can say that none of the fellow Hans I know want to dominate anyone else. The only thing that we want is, like everyone else, to make better lives for ourselves. There is no cohesive secret plot to take over the World. Sorry if the side effect of a simple desire to better ourselves is to cause non-Hans to think that they are dominated. We simply have a convergent problem of being the biggest ethnic group all working hard to make better lives for ourselves. What are we gonna do? Stop being productive individuals? Renounce our ethnicity?

Never gonna happen.

 

LJZ1031

11:48 PM ET

January 20, 2011

To the author: If you can not

To the author: If you can not read Chinese history in Chinese Characters, please hold your tongue.

 

MELEKTAUS

1:15 AM ET

January 21, 2011

Bilge

I see that foreignpolicy has now resorted to yellow journalism. The article is wavers to and fro from the trivial to the vague then finally crash landing on the audaciously unsupported. You know it's trying to BS you when it resorts to neologisms ("Tribalism"?) where more familiar words may suffice. It's clear that the author is trying to rehash his 1992 semi successful hit single.

 

TECHGUY222

9:12 AM ET

January 21, 2011

So Foreign Policy has

So Foreign Policy has regressed into 19th century sociiology....

 

ALEXANDERTHETINY

7:42 PM ET

January 21, 2011

Lightweight article

Why is the author so obsessed about race / ethnicity, and by the way, why does he completely sidestep America ?
No analysis on tribalism dynamics on America ?

How come he does not apply the same theories on America and tell us his expert findings ?

Another point,
Why are so-called "experts" like him tend to like to see the world in such gloomy, ambivalent, antagonistic, and "tribal" approach ?

Could it be that these "experts" are actually barbarian unevolved people with gutteral instincts ?

 

GABREIL

9:08 AM ET

January 22, 2011

Paranoia

The white man and his paranoia. Thanks for the "rise of China". At least the west has a real big headache to worry about. But some of these outburst couched as some kind of intellectual discourse can be troubling if you are from the targeted area. I remember that immediately after the independence movements in Africa took up hardcore nationalistic slogans, the next thing from the west was to term them "communists and socialists"(that was before Osama , so 'terrorists' was not yet in Vogue). Most of the leaders were assassinated and as the overblown fear of the consequences of a socialist black Africa collaborating with the black community in America became a good reason for tribal purist to wage sickening wars, foreign sponsored political squabbles became the order of the day. Seems like that problem was finally solved with AIDS.

China is better managed to witness this sort of abuse but the fact still remains that the kind of worry exhibited by the writer and his kind (especially those in power) shares a family resemblance with the type of fear exhibited against African populations by the likes of Kissinger.. I guess it's natural to worry about threats to your ethnic/tribal groupings but we have to be careful because genocides and progroms have been initiated in recent history based on this sort of fear and in most cases those who "took actions" to save their groups beat their chest with what they consider to be their 'success stories" . What they havent showns us is the proof that the much feared ethnic challenge/warfare/domination would have happened if they didn't 'act'. It must weird to be eternally living in fear.

 

JIMBI44

9:22 PM ET

January 22, 2011

so true !

so true !

 

SSOLIVIO

11:07 AM ET

January 24, 2011

1. race and ethnicity are not

1. race and ethnicity are not the same
2. kotkin should write for the national review. then, he can get paid to write even less discrete articles extolling anglo, rather than impending han hegemony...

 

ASHIYAN

10:09 AM ET

January 29, 2011

BNP/KKK members writing for Foreign Policy now?

For American readers, BNP is the British National Party- Kind of like a British Nazi party or legal political Klu Klux Klan.
Which leads me to this article This author seems to me to be unspeakably uninformed and small-minded.
1) He shoots himself in the foot by defining an Anglosphere- which to my mind is a unsubtle and essentially racist way of saying White. Furthermore, his defintion of Anglosphere, which i guess would include trhe UK & US, which are significantly multiracial just, plane - makes no sense.
2) China has spent the last 20 years encouraging foreign investment and the import of technology and management skills from overseas inclufing bringing foreigners to China from overseas.
3) Im sorry, but im going to have to blunt here. This is the least well thought out article and fundamentally racist article i have read in a long time. If Foreign Policy is printing drivel like this - then something is wrong. Well done for writing an article about the 19th century world.
4) Around 300million people around the world are expatriate or have multinational identity. Furthermore there are significant refugee populations. And even more multiracial individuals.
5) If this was the early 1900´s - this is akin to Foreign Policy printing an article espousing Nazism.
In summary, are you being serious?

 

AJKO

6:54 AM ET

February 16, 2011

Statistic true

He shoots himself in the foot by defining an Anglosphere- which to my mind is a unsubtle and essentially racist way of saying White. China has spent the last 20 years encouraging foreign investment and the import of technology and management skills from overseas Around 300million people around the world are expatriate or have multinational identity. I cant believe - its littzle bit big nombers, isnt?!sazky