Revolution in the Arab World
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Why We Can't Rule Out an Egyptian Reign of Terror

A historian's look at revolution and its discontents.

BY DAVID A. BELL | FEBRUARY 7, 2011

There are, of course, many different ways of categorizing historical revolutions. But for the purposes of understanding what is happening in Egypt -- and the challenges it may pose for the United States -- one simple, rough distinction may be especially useful. This is the distinction between revolutions that look more like 1688 and revolutions that look more like 1789. The first date refers to England's "Glorious Revolution," in which the Catholic, would-be absolute monarch James II was overthrown and replaced by the Protestant William and Mary and the English Parliament claimed powerful and enduring new forms of authority. The second is, of course, the date of the French Revolution, which began as an attempt to create a constitutional monarchy but ultimately led to the execution of King Louis XVI, the proclamation of the First French Republic, and the Reign of Terror.

A key feature of 1688-type revolutions is their relative brevity. They may be preceded by lengthy periods of discontent, agitation, protest, and even violence, but the revolutionary moment itself generally lasts for only a few months (as in 1688 itself), or even weeks or days. A regime reaches a point of crisis and falls. The consolidation of a new regime itself may well involve much more turmoil and bloodshed, and eventually entail considerable political and social change -- but these later events are not considered part of the revolution itself, and there is no sense of an ongoing revolutionary process. Men and women do not define themselves as active "revolutionaries" (in 1688, in fact, the English noun and adjective "revolutionary" did not yet exist -- it only came into frequent use after 1789).

Revolutions of the 1789 type are quite different. Their leaders and supporters see regime change as only the beginning of an arduous, ambitious process of political, social, and cultural transformation that may require years, even decades, to complete. For them, the revolution is not a discrete event, but an ongoing cause. They eagerly define themselves as "revolutionaries" and even speak of the "permanent revolution." Revolutions of this type generally have much stronger utopian tendencies than the others and more frequently lead to large-scale violence. They also tend to have ambitions that overflow national boundaries -- the local revolution becomes seen as just part of a process of worldwide emancipation. In some cases, revolutions of this type may be driven from the start by a self-consciously revolutionary party, committed to radical upheaval. In other cases (such as 1789 itself), it may seem to start off as a more limited event, only to change its character as particular groups grow frustrated with the results and the opposition they have encountered, and conclude that far broader, deeper forms of change are called for.

Historically, 1688-type revolutions have been much more common: France in 1830, Germany in 1918, China in 1911-12, and many of the revolutions of 1848 (of which most ended in failure). 1789-type revolutions, by contrast, have been relative historical rarities: above all, 1789 itself, Russia in 1917, China in 1949, Cuba in 1959. They are not, however, necessarily revolutions of the left. One could also include in this category the Nazi seizure of power in Germany (which Hitler termed a "National Revolution") and Iran in 1979. The American Revolution, it could be argued, represents something of a hybrid case -- closer to 1688, yet with important features of the other type, thanks to the long process of consolidation and contestation that followed independence.

In recent years, it seems as if the 1789 type of revolution has lost its appeal for most of the world. During the greatest series of political upheavals in recent times -- the collapse of communism -- most leaders of the victorious reform movements rejected the word "revolution" altogether. The Polish Solidarity leader Jacek Kuron went so far as to write in the summer of 1989, apropos of the French Revolution's bicentennial, that Poland did not want a revolution because revolutions spill too much blood. Germans refer to the events of 1989 as the "Turning," not the "Revolution." It was, above all, in Czechoslovakia that the word "revolution" came to describe what happened in 1989, but paired with the word "velvet" to underscore the differences from the great revolutions of the past.

 

David A. Bell is the Sidney and Ruth Lapidus professor in the era of North Atlantic revolutions at Princeton University.

NEOSHADOWS

11:31 PM ET

February 7, 2011

Personal view

As a Chinese,I would like to compare it with 1989 Tiananmen instead of 1789 French revolution.

Long live my Killed Chinese fellows!

 

KEVINSD

12:43 AM ET

February 8, 2011

War and Revolution

Another article on FP which fails to note the relationship between so-called 1789-type revolutions and the gigantic wars which either caused them or ran concurrently. Robespierre, Lenin, Mao might have been footnote figures if war hadn't elevated them to power. The secret for avoiding radicalization might be as simple as this: stop large wars from breaking out (lest they trigger unintended consequences).

 

CK MACLEOD

2:01 AM ET

February 8, 2011

That's just one difference...

...among many... I hope we can agree, that the world is a somewhat slightly difference place in 2011 than it was in 1789 or 1688. The status of Egypt as a client state of the U.S. and a nation of our global age puts its potential "regime change" in a completely different light, and we actually have some reasonably good recent experience of dictatorships and other non-democratic regimes within the U.S. alliance structure or orbit dissolving in favor of democratic governance: Spain, Indonesia, Taiwan, South Korea, the Philippines, Colombia, Peru, Brazil, Chile, Argentina, South Africa... and so on. I suppose they count as 1688-style "revolutions," but they may have more in common with each other, and Egypt, than they do with 17th C. England.

 

PYTHEAS75

5:07 AM ET

February 8, 2011

It's not 1989, it's not 1789,

It's not 1989, it's not 1789, it's not 1688, it's not 1848, it's lok like 1830.

 

TECHGUY222

6:39 AM ET

February 8, 2011

It's a huge generalization to

It's a huge generalization to lump together French liberals, Communists, Islamists, and Nazis into one single group (other than being things us Americans dislike!). And the author ignores that the German Revolution of 1918 and the Chinese revolution in 1911-12 were not without violence. It's misleading, and ignores the vast differences in nationalities, time periods, and ideologies of each revolution.

 

FRANCKROADS

6:56 AM ET

February 8, 2011

Why We Can't Rule Out an Egyptian Reign of Terror

Who do you mean "WE" white man?

 

FRANCKROADS

7:08 AM ET

February 8, 2011

white?

I should say undefined shade instead

 

JOHANNES SCOTTUS ERIUGENA

7:57 AM ET

February 8, 2011

1688?

1688, though, was hardly a quick and/or bloodless affair. Indeed, it was not really confined to 1688 at all. The "revolution" continued on to Ireland where it lasted for three bloody years, ending with William's bloody victory at Aughrim (1691) ensuring a tiny Anglican elite's rule over a disenfranchised and destitute majority Catholic population for the next 200 some years. Hardly a revolution worthy of Lockean principals, though it did provide the groundwork for the now firmly Protestant "British" nation to take off.

It was also the opening bell for the imposition of the tyrannical Penal Laws on Irish Catholics and Presbyterians, a system which would only truly come to an end with the granting of Catholic Emancipation in 1829.

The lesson of all revolutions is that while they share many common factors, all are contingent on the socio-political climate of the country they take place in. It's likely that Egypt and Tunisia will turn out to follow neither in the climate of 1688 or 1789, but 2011.

 

BOXUAN

8:52 AM ET

February 8, 2011

Difference is simple

When it's a revolution in a pro-US country, it would be warned to be like 1789 or 1917, the media elites terrify you with all the possibilities of bad outcomes and why should everyone 'hold the applause'. When it happens to a regime agains the US, then all you could see is the euphoria and romanticism, as during the color revolutions in Ukraine, Georgia and Kyrgystan, as during the twitter revolution in Iran, or just as in 1989.

 

PUBLICUS

12:30 PM ET

February 8, 2011

You get who you get

CK MACLOUD correcty notes a good number of countries, tho not all of course, where the new ruler was the guy the people of the particular country chose or accepted. Spain of the time accepted Franco (many fought for him), the Philippines Marcos, Indonesia Suharto/Sukarno, S Korea ultimately got the authoritarian Park Chung Hee etc etc. The United States of the time had little, indeed no say in the emergence of these and in the acention of other similar dictatorial leaders of other countries. In each of these and in regard to many other similar instances the US played the hand it got. In China the US atypically supported one side, the loser, Chiang Kai Shek who became Generalissimo in Taiwan but which for more than a decade now has been a democracy comprised of its own particulars. The US certainly did not choose Tito in the then Yugoslavia but Tito himself approached the US (as a counterbalance to the USSR overruning him during the Cold War) which is yet another instance of the US having to accept the realpolitik of past times, circumstances, developments beyond its control; events.

The recent Bush administration dominated by the now completely discredited neocons tried in their own strange (demented) way to reverse the typical course of previous events and the consistent emergence of dictator leaders in favor of leaders the neocons in their delusions said were democrats (actually there are a good number of democrats in Iraq). Had however the US tried to intervene in any or all of the instances of 20th century history cited by CK MACLOUD and myself and in others, you would be shouting very loudly against that, even more than the complaining you are manufacturing at the present time.

 

CAMAELJAX

11:21 AM ET

February 8, 2011

Hypothetical vs. Real 'Reigns of Terror'

More scare tactics of an American hegemony terrified of losing it's control over the Middle East. So we create stories of hypothetical 'reigns of terror' while ignoring the very real 'Reign of Terror' of the US-supported Mubarak regime over the last thirty years...

 

CK MACLEOD

1:15 PM ET

February 8, 2011

Yep...

Good point - but that's because "terror" is ALWAYS and EXCLUSIVELY a tool of the other team, NEVER to be attributed to the actions of U.S. and allies.

 

PUBLICUS

1:53 PM ET

February 8, 2011

Revolution vs Ractionism

I welcome the occasion of the author's piece to point out that the word revolution has a specific meaning and application, i.e., that it cannot be used simply to describe a or just any complete reversal to a form or government, often by force, or used or applied across the board whether we refer to 1688 and 1789 or to 1917 or 1979.

That is, it is immaterial whether the event we call a revolution is relatively quick and bloodless, or whether it is in fact bloody, or whether it turns out to have a longer term goal of the eventual (yes decades, not centuries) transformation of a society, culture or civilisation. Quick and relatively unbloody per se, or bloody and with longer term aspirational ideas, goals and purposes per se (the 'new man' for instance) does not automatically or necessarily call for us to use the word revolution. Stalin was a 'new man' revolutionary as was Mao. So was Hitler among many others in citing recent history. Were they and their followers the 'new man' revolutonaries we might want to have in mind? Certainly and absolutely not. They were racists. Are racist revolutonaries? Are religiously limited minds revolutionaries? They certainly are not. They are reactionist and reactionary; practice reactionism.

The word revolution can be applied to 1789 because regardless of its limited immediate particulars, it quickly became a movement that in fact has led to new concept of how to live human life. The concepts that significantly and almost immediately emerged from 1789 have as their locus enduring aspirations and are as vitally important presently and foreseeably as they were then, i.e. liberty, equality, fraternity. The fraternity aspect for instance has since evolved rationally more into gender equality and much more broadly into the concept of human rights.

The word revolution cannot be applied to Mao and 1949 China. With all due respect to Mao's les miserables peasants, the immediate and to the present purposes of Mao's revolution has no aspirations, enduring purposes, means or lofty goals. Mao's reactionism was solely interested in only the most reactionary of matters, i.e., dictatorship, one man leadership (a new emperor), one elite and oligarchic group controlling the government and country etc etc. Mao's China quickly morphed into Deng Xiao Peng's "rich is good" and even more quickly into the present CCP-PRC which is reactionist and reactionary, i.e, it has as one of its most prominent govenrment policies of IT censorship, it seeks to control new technology and high tech IT only for its own selfish and greedy purposes, to wit: controlling the lives and the thoughts of the sheeple of China both to enrich and to self agrandise itself and its absolute control of the state - the state apparatus of security and repression especially. This is not revolutionary, i.e., that which is progressively enduring and a radical departure from the dark 12,000 past of recorded human civilisation. 1949 does not constitute a radical departure from the past human history of autocratic government and rulers or of, the continuation of traditional hierarchical society, limited socioeconoics, the absence of a newly creative culture predicated in freedom of thought, expression etc.

1688 and 1789 (to include 1776) and certain others we could identify were genuine progressive revolutions which either from the outset or quickly afterward made a radical and fundamental departure from past human history. In sharp contrat, Cuba 1959-60 was reactionism; Tehran in 1979 was reactionism - Tehran especially so - China 1949 was reactionism, as were Hitler, Mussolini, Russia's October 1917 event, Franco, Pinochet and so on and so on..

As to the some certain of the in-betweens such as Park in S Korea, Sukarno in Indonesia, Chiang in Taiwan, Marcos in the Phils etc, those guys were old fashioned dictators who happened to come under the strong influence of the United States and the Western democracies. The in-betweens are in-beteens because it took only a relatively short time in the framework of history to affect their departure. Chavez in Venezuela does not intend to be an in-betweener but his most recent actions granting himself dictatorial powers in the Western Hemisphere in particular certainly assure Chavez will be another in-betweener.

As others have pointed out above, we are not in 1688, 1789, 1830, 1849 and so on. We live and interact in the comtemporary world, which includes the post Great European War (1914-18) world, Consequently it takes only a decade or two to identify and to judge the in-betweens because their time in power happens and passes much more quickly than did dynasties and because their dictatorial rule is superficial and clearly selfserving, which among their populations only accelerates the demise of the old cultures and traditions of dictatorship and/or authoritarian rule. .

The USSR very quickly became obvious in its reactionism and after exactly and only 74 years of it, the Soviet Union crumbled quickly and collapsed suddently. The current Reactionist siezures of power, such as in Tehran in 1979 won't come close to the USSR's relative to history short burst of senseless survival.

CCP-PRC take note.

 

BLOGFODDER

12:48 PM ET

February 11, 2011

Revolution vs Reactionism

The comments are as educational as the article. thanks for this.

 

COLINDALE

4:55 PM ET

February 8, 2011

The Middle East is in flux as old, corrupt regimes fall ..

The Middle East is in flux as old, corrupt regimes falter and fall and a new, urgent voice is heard across the region from Morocco in the west to Iran in the east, where an average of nearly one third of the population of all 20 states, is under 30 years of age.

ISRAEL 23%
KUWAIT 25%
EMIRATES 27%
WEST BANK 27%
GAZA 27%
BAHRAIN 28%
IRAQ 28%
S ARABIA 28%
LIBYA 28%
MOROCCO 29%
TUNISIA 29%
EGYPT 29%
LEBANON 30%
JORDAN 30%
YEMEN 30%
ALGERIA 31%
SYRIA 31%
OMAN 31%
QATAR 34%
IRAN 34%

Source: UN Dept of Economics & Social Affairs

 

THIRDWORLDCHARLIE

5:06 PM ET

February 8, 2011

Only Revolution arise from within ....

I will further classify; Revolutions are changes from within by the indigenous populations. Foreign supported coup d'etat are ... well takeover by other means. So called 'Rose in Georgia', 'Orange in Ukraine', 'Cedar in Lebanon' and 'Tienanmen Square in China' were western financed and fomented attempts to take over power and install puppet rulers. But foreign supported takeover do not have the deep local support and therefore they either fall apart soon after, or they fail to capture the prize. Orange Revolution in Ukraine was financed by US and fomented by about 2,400 Ukrainian-Canadians. This fact was admitted by a Ukranian-Canadian member of parliament of Canada. This revolution fizzled out in couple of years. Rose Revolution is alive by massive financial support from west. Cedar revolution is gone. Tienanmen failed because Chinese government was far more ruthless than normal.

Thus West's moral pontifications are hollow. They are just as ruthless and devious as colonial empires.

 

HADEEL SHARAF

5:11 PM ET

February 8, 2011

from the Egyptian street

I admire your article sir ,
just a comment on the last paragraph .
from a young girl from a small Egyptian town : the opinion of the simple man (farmer , firefighter...) is :
Mohamed ElBaradei is not a hero and can not be considered as a man has an Egyptian soul ,
and the first thing he will do is bringing the foreign organizations to govern instead of him.

A man like him soon will be isolated by his American visions . Egypt is not ready for a man like him yet.
So :
The next problem of the youth in Egypt is simply the misunderstanding of the real meaning of democracy .

Mubarak is not that devil but he lost the contact and the sense of the street needs since mid 90s.
He was simply (used ) by some people who tempted him using the everlasting (kingdom) , money and the idea of the successor Gamal .

Predicting what is next is the hardest thing to do now .
Because it is not about Who .
It is about the steps towards learning the democracy ,learning is not for free it needs sacrifice and the acceptance of mistakes and wrong choices.

February 2011 or September 2011....Mubarak will leave .
Who is coming?
What will happen ?
questions will have unpredictable answers

 

THE EUROPEAN

7:37 PM ET

February 8, 2011

The European

Most posters avoid analyzing the underlying factors in the Egyptian revolution and instead they turned this thread into an America and - by extension - the "Evil White man" bashing.

Comparing incongruous, bygone world event which happened in different parts of the world at different times and discovering similarities in them makes no rational argument.
Every single revolution had a unique socio-economical state that preceded the revolution and gave a direction to it.

Every revolution had a leading ideology behind it which was developed by thinker-writers like Voltaire, Kant, Marx, Lenin etc.

Egypt, just like the whole Middle East has no other leading ideology than Islam. 18.th Century Enlightenment did not happen outside Europe and all modern democracy is rooted in the Enlightenment and it's spiritual influence as far as Japan.
Russia or China had no Enlightenment either, it remained absolute dictatorship be it the Czar, Party chief or a strong man - even to this day.

There are no foundations for democracy in a religious oriented country, ad-hoc, hodge-podge demagoguery - children of most revolutions - will be suppressed by a new dictatorship be Islamic like Iran or a non religious like Assad in Syria, that is. Mubarak II.

Keep dreaming up whatever you like but facts on the ground won't change. Egypt will not turn into a prosperous, modern industrial country like Taiwan or Singapore.
Hence the poverty and dissatisfaction will persist like an inextinguishable ember no matter what.

 

THIRDWORLDCHARLIE

8:08 PM ET

February 8, 2011

Was it your enlightment ...

Was it your enlightenment that you enslaved the browns and blacks of this world for centuries. British boasted about the sun never setting over the stolen land, French, Dutch, Italian and even German were engaged in rapacious thievery of our resources, our national treasures, our historical and cultural icons are now warehoused in your museums. So please spare us with your pontifications and high moral platitudes. The fact is is Europe, nay the White Man has indulged in so much crime that they should hang their head in shame.

 

ALEXBC

8:33 PM ET

February 8, 2011

I do not understand the

I do not understand the hyperventilating criticisms of European colonialism and the "white man" in this discussion. It does not seem germane to the topic at all. Europe has long since abandoned its outsized colonialism and one would be gravely amiss in characterizing the current multicultural West as one gigantic vehicle for the "white man," or even as a coherent, unified political entity that could actively foment revolution all over the world.

Tianenmen Square was caused by Western interference? Get real. It happened because of runaway inflation and distortions caused by China's highly compressed economic growth. In fact, it nearly happened again in the early 1990s once inflation hit record levels and suddenly caused the CCP to take a more active role in the economy (most observers do not know this and just assume that China instituted one blanket set of reforms in the late 70s). It should not be surprising that Egypt in 2011 also suffers from food inflation.

In any case, I agree with The European that there are not really any solid foundations for democracy in the Middle East, Russia, or China. Islam drowns out all other philosophical bents in the Middle East, Russia has a nearly incorrigible tsarist tradition, and China is ideologically bankrupt, alternating between the shopworn and seemingly contradictory Western ideas of Communism and runaway market economics.

The author of the original article was astute to point out that Louis XIV was still the king of France after the first year of the "Revolution," but another point worth noting is that, in barely a decade after the Declaration Of The Rights Of Man And Citizen, France had an emperor and was en route to colonizing most of Europe. The foundations for democracy were weak even then, and took decades if not centuries to develop. France's post-1789 political history is positively schizophrenic, esp. if one compares it to a contemporary like America, which benefited from being a political tabula rasa whose critical foundations just happened to be on the side of liberal democracy.

 

PUBLICUS

3:13 PM ET

February 11, 2011

@THIRDWORLDCHARLIE

Yeah, it was the European Enlightenment that brought down emperors and their empires and which ended colonialism. The Enlightenment introduced radically new ideas such as self government. It's a great and wonderful fact that a people who have self government have great difficulty imagining themselves as masters of empire or colonies. Even the Brits decided to declare that the sun could indeed set on its Empire - yeah, it took the Brits a while to accept and get used to the reality of it but worse, it took the French to Dien Bien Phu to realize the end of a far flung empire and closer to home in Algeria to recognize the final end of even the remnants of empire itself.

Even then the French and British together, in 1956 and (secretly) in direct opposition to the policies of the United States, launched their surprise invasion of Egypt after Colonel-President Nasser unilaterally nationalised the Suez Canal. The dying thoes of European emperor-empire imperialism took some time in some instances, but the Age of Emperor Imperial Empire from the West ended in Europe because democracy was a direct and natural offspring of the European Enlightenment. Without the Enlightenment, we of the West would be no better today than the CCP-PRC or neo-tsarist Russia among other unsavory governments, cultures, societies, peoples.

The European Enlightenment ended European empire, emperors, colonialism. It ushered in democracy and self government, individualism, relativism, rationalism, skepticism and so much more you miss.

 

THE EUROPEAN

9:00 PM ET

February 8, 2011

The European

Now you are free. And think what your miserable life would be like without Western ("White Man") support.
Just look around in the Third World hellholes which dot the world: we are paying for the past misdeeds.
By doing so we're still more decent than those who cut off each other heads or blowing up innocent people.
Those are most likely your heroes.

 

ADAM NEIRA

9:32 PM ET

February 8, 2011

Scenarios

Egypt Update...Tahrir Square is the epicentre of the people’s hopes, fear and aspirations at the moment. The cynics and naysayers have been adamant that there is no way the Egyptians will be able to handle a peaceful transition to democracy. However yesterday while Egyptian Muslims prayed in the Square, Copts stood guard protecting them. And today it is the Copts turn to hold Mass while Muslims stood guard. This is an incredibly positive sign ! You can discern certain trends by looking at the right pieces of the global geo-political hologram. Misinterpretation of the zeitgeist has been a feature of most leaders thinking in the past. As I have maintained for a long time now how we perceive a situation can determine what unfolds. Of course putting on rose coloured glasses can be dangerous. We must be vigilant about the possibility of evil, whether it is in a pub on a Saturday evening or a nation going through change. There are ways to shift the dynamic in a situation for the better. The presence, oversight and involvement of certain people can create order, stability, benevolence and expansiveness in the lives of others. G-d always leaves a few angels down here on terra firma to hold the very fabric of the universe together. The more angels the better...

 

DR. SARDONICUS

10:19 PM ET

February 8, 2011

Will the USA never learn?

According to you, real revolutions are bad by definition, whereas ersatz, inconclusive ones are OK. A profoundly reactionary conclusion from a national elite sunk in its corruption. Statesmanlike comments from JFK and Eisenhower sound like the ravings of revolutionary firebrands, and Reagan’s tax policies, the fruit of mass socialism. Compare those to current Truthspeak’s Victorian self-satisfaction with kleptocratic oligarchy at home and preemptive imperialism abroad. And, please, let no-one speak of serious revolution…

KEVINSD mentioned “gigantic wars which either caused them (revolutions) or ran concurrently.” What he and you failed to mention is that ANY revolution can become a bloodbath if foreign reactionaries make war on it with sufficient gusto, turning positive political transformation into an existential death match and a nursery for tyranny on both sides.

Iran would have become a Turkey-style secular democratic state a half-century ago, had the US/UK not suppressed every trace of it, using means fair and foul to secure its petro-corporate profits and tyrannical puppets, and forced the growth of militant Islam as the only alternative tough enough to survive that abuse. Secular democrats are far more vulnerable to police suppression than religious fanatics in love with the idea of martyrdom. Who knew?

As for the current batch of North African revolts, likewise in spades. Why is this truth so hard for us Americans to accept? When we have failed so dismally in the past, ignoring the same truth?

 

SWOTHUNTERS

10:28 PM ET

February 8, 2011

Tread Cautiously

While it is moving to see a people stand up for it rights against a authoritarian regime, the US must be wary of who it supports, and thus should let the people work this issue out amongst themselves without any US Government interference. At the same time we should not subvert a loyal ally in the region.

This movement does not have an Abu Washington or Abu Adams representing the people, this is disconcerting. It implies other silent hands may be at play, and that means the US may be getting played.

Demonstrations make news. But what about the story behind the news? Who are the puppet masters. There's a video in the following two links that make note of such manipulation via http://www.swothunter.com called 'Egypt and the OODA Loop'; also see http://t.co/m1rtIDJ.

Cheers, SWOThunter

 

ANDREWP111

5:36 AM ET

February 9, 2011

Revolution vs War of Independence

I would not characterize 1776 as a "revolution". We were throwing off a foreign yoke, not a domestic dictator. The States maintained the same self-government structure as their predecessor Colonies with a remarkable degree of continuity. In contrast, 1789 was a true Revolution. So was 1917, 1979, and Mao's rise. Likewise, the revolutions that took place as the Soviet Union pulled back from Eastern Europe and the wall fell were more akin to wars of Independence, but since the Soviets didn't fight to keep their satellites, those changes took place with relatively little bloodshed.

I expect Egypt to go more like 1979 Iran, but far worse - once the military regime ultimately falls. It may not fall immediately as there could be a post-Mubarak transition government. But if the popular will is expressed in the Sunni Islamic world, the end result must be a transnational Caliphate. The yearning for a restoration of past glory is very strong among Muslims who are seething with grievance and wounded pride. The Zionist beachhead otherwise known as Israel is a festering wound to their pride that never goes away. The transnational nature of a future Caliphate is particularly urgent for Egypt, because the population of Egypt is already in far excess of the Nile Delta's natural carrying capacity. Egypt depends on tourism, and Islamic revolutionary governments are not good for tourism -- but if the popular will is expressed, the Islamists will rule with absolute certainty. Egypt is a net importer of food, and it needs to be combined with oil rich and better agricultural states to have any kind of sustainibility without tourism income.

 

WP200

5:52 AM ET

February 9, 2011

1688 was not a revolution, it was a conquest.

A Dutch fleet landed a Dutch army in England, paid for by Dutch merchants who got what they wanted: a Dutch Prince on the throne of England, fighting France.

 

THE EUROPEAN

11:47 AM ET

February 9, 2011

In support of ANDREWP111 post

Cool headed observations all came to the same conclusion that eventually a form of Islamic totalitarianism is the only possible outcome of Middle Eastern revolutions in the long run.

It would be a sort of garrulous post to describe the many negative attributes that characterize the M.E. societies like illiteracy, poverty and lack of economical advancement in the last couple hundred years.

The funny thing is that it was under Ottoman Turkish rule for 800 years (edit) yet the Leftists put the blame on the "Evil White" man for the ubiquitous backwardness.
And now I am at my theses.

It's almost comical to read the Leftist Western press which presents these events like a second "Bolshevik revolution which will destroy the oppressive, abusive ruling class, and ushers the rule of the liberated people's power."

Western press is ecstatic, it beholds the arrival of the Trocky-st (not the Leninist!!) permanent revolution which will do away with capitalism, nation states all over the world. etc etc.

They project their bizarre, convoluted Marxist vision onto the illiterate fellah who is eking out a meager existence along the river Nile.
Please remember: I am European. I had seen it already.

 

JOHN MILTON XIV

8:09 PM ET

February 9, 2011

Modernization Theory mark 999999

@ The European,

The theories which you are expounding have not incorrectly been variously described under the rubric of "neo-colonialism", or somesuch.

You stated previously that "X" - Russia, China and now Egypt - did not have the Enlightenment and *therefore* did not, COULD not have liberal democracy.

This theory has several flaws.

1/Counterexamples: eg India, Brazil, Japan.

2/Please refer to various critiques of Enlightenment universalism. A good place to start could well be no less an Kantian Enlightenment thinker such as eg. Jurgen Habermas. eg see his "The Divided West" for his critique of the neo-con project.

Enlightenment Universalism is deeply flawed when it is not tempered with due regard to a/localism and b/without an accompanying critical self-reflection, restraint and humilty on the part of the erstwhile "universalist".

(On the latter point see eg. Immanuel Wallerstein's "European Universalism: The Rhetoric of Power")

All of the problems outlined here can be seen in the disastrous failures of the supremacist neo-liberal, neo-con agendas.

Sadly, it is difficult to see that alternative agendas are possible to enact as they constitute the internal and innately imperialist domination of Capitalism itself.

It is for this reason that Capitalism is now in its historical death-throes. Please note that I not putting this "death of Capitalism" thesis forward for purely "Marxist" reasons ie. Capitalism will die due to its failures and due to its inherently crisis-ridden nature.

Capitalism's death is just as much due to reasons expounded by the all but totally unread Joseph Schumpeter ie. because of its *successes*

(Please see the work of Immanuel Wallerstein.)

3/ Above all, you completely ignore the geo-political realities that those countries which are democratic are located only in "core" zones of the capitalist world-system. That it is say those who have a relatively high level of material wealth which in turn was attained through imperialist exploitation of the semi-peripheral and peripheral zones of the world-system.

Note well, that what works against authentic democracy attaining in these nations is again the same levels of vast material inequality.

The USA is the prime example.

Finally, then we can address your "panic-button" point concerning religion=totalitarianism.

I agree with you somewhat that maybe the democratic "ideal-type" is a secular and a liberal one eg. Turkey.

However, in light of the points expounded above, there is reason to think that deeply religious peoples and societies may "get there".

Above all the enemy of democracy is not the least bit dependent on the production everywhere of a native John Locke et al.

The enemy of democracy is Capitalism.

 

THE EUROPEAN

10:40 PM ET

February 9, 2011

To John Milton XIV

I believe that the permission to express our opinion on the FP doesn't extends to long, verbose essays which are not germane to the title.
I try to be as concise and as short as possible.

Japan's democratic transformation happened under US occupation.
India's institutions were set up by the British and all prominent leaders were educated in London.
Brazil was inhabited by European immigrants.
Your argument would hold more water if you could present a country which developed an indigenous democracy WITHOUT European presence or influence.

I spent half of my life in Marxist-Leninist E. Europe, we were compelled to learn Marx, Engels, Lenin, Bukharin etc. so you are not in the right position to elucidate Easterners -(Russians included) in regard to the Communist Manifesto.
The Bolshevik experiment collapsed after 70 years of destruction.

You will have more success peddling your Bolshevik wares with naive Westerners who are mentally at the same point in time than we were in 1917.

I am not in the business of proselytizing but I take the liberty to to remind you that all ex-Communist countries reverted to capitalism.

So just keep the fight on for the success of the "World Proletariat Unify" grand design.

 

JOHN MILTON XIV

7:29 AM ET

February 10, 2011

Yeah, I had actually had the

Yeah, I had actually had the impression that you might have been from the Eastern part of Europe. It comes through in the bitterness, the anger, and, quite frankly, the paucity of education in your posts. Otherwise known, in your words, as "brevity".

Thanks for that. Very interesting.

From what I have seen and read about eg. Russia, the tragedy is that the Russians have always lived under one form of totalitarianism or another. The Russian people have gone from Tsarism, to Stalinism and now to monopoly capitalist oligarchy.

Note well that your beloved Enlightenment was just as easily "perverted" into the absolutism of Catherine II of Russia.

Re. your points on Brazil and India. True enough up to point. But course steps toward a true democracy could only be attained after the long and bitter struggle to throw off the yoke of colonialism.
In any case, if we just take India, Ghandi *had* to and did draw upon native Hindu and Indian thought. If he didn't have this "localism" it couldn't possibly work.

More generally though, I was attempting to outline in broad detail, points of critique which very urgently must be made of 1/the Enlightenment 2/ the highly fetishsized notions of Democracy which we have at the moment and then 3/ the reasons that Capitalism works against true Democracy and finally 4/the *inherent* and innate structural and systemic weaknesses of the Capitalist world-system.

(Note well the GFC of 2007/2008, and the long Depression which we have entered since, had is origins in the *First World*.)

Some of us who live in the West and are “more used to” Capitalism have come to adopt a far more critical attitude than you.

For example that bastion of Marxist thought the International Monetary Fund.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/209-bwi-wto/49768-imf-raises-spectre-of-civil-wars-as-global-inequalities-worsen.html

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) identifies global inequality as a major cause of the economic crisis and urges nations to address it. A recent paper released by the IMF states that workers have steadily lost their "bargaining power" relative to owners of capital. To reverse this trend, governments should institute radical changes to their tax codes and offer debt relief to workers facing an escalating crunch from low wage growth and increasing food and energy prices.

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

The Telegraph
February 1, 2011

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) has warned that "dangerous" imbalances have emerged that threaten to derail global recovery and stoke tensions that may ultimately set off civil wars in deeply unequal countries.

Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the IMF's chief, said the economic rebound across the world is built on unstable foundations, with many rich nations still strapped in job slumps while the rising powers of China, India and Brazil already facing the threat of overheating. "It is not the recovery we wanted. It is a recovery beset by tensions and strain, which could even sow the seeds of the next crisis," he said.

"Global unemployment remains at record highs, with widening income inequality adding to social strains," he said, citing turmoil in North Africa as a prelude to what may happen as 400m youths join the workforce over the next decade. "We could see rising social and political instability within nations - even war," he said.

The IMF has published a paper entitled Inequality, Leverage and Crisis arguing that the extreme gap between rich and poor - with echoes of the US in the late 1920s - was an underlying cause of the Great Recession from 2008-2009.

The paper, by the Fund's modelling unit, warned of "disastrous consequences" for the world economy unless workers regain their "bargaining power" against rentiers. It suggests radical changes to the tax system and debt relief for workers.

Mr Strauss-Kahn said the toxic global imbalances that caused the financial crisis are re-emerging, naming China and Germany as the two arch-sinners that rely on export surpluses to power growth at the expense of the US and other deficit countries.

"The most important question is to deal with the recurrent problem of some countries' large external surpluses," he said, warning that failure to curb excesses will lead to global clashes and rising protectionism in trade and finance.

In a veiled warning to China and other countries holding down their currencies for commercial advantage, the IMF chief said "exchange-rate adjustment should not be resisted". Nor should capital controls be imposed to stop the inflow of funds.

The comments appear to align the IMF behind Washington in the simmering dispute over the declining dollar. China and Brazil have accused the US of covert currency warfare through quantitative easing, but the claim is slippery since the US has a huge structural trade deficit.

Mr. Strauss-Kahn also hinted that parts of Asia are exceeding the safe speed limit for growth and needed to "tighten" further before inflation gets out of control. "There are risks of overheating, and even a hard landing," he said.

Full IMF report can be found here.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/images/pdfs/Inequality_Leverage_Crises.pdf

Mmmm, could it be that Straus-Kahn has been re-reading Marx??

http://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/209-bwi-wto/49769-egypt-youth-unemployment-was-time-bomb-imf-head.html

Director of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) Dominique Strauss-Kahn claims that he had repeatedly warned policy makers about the possibility of revolution in Egypt over the past year. Strauss-Kahn spoke out last summer at a meeting in Morocco, where he raised concerns about the specter of general instability in the region due to vast inequality in income distribution and high levels of youth unemployment. Strauss-Kahn's comments clash with multiple IMF staff reports from recent years, which lauded Egypt's wide-ranging reform efforts and policies that guaranteed greater macroeconomic stability.

By Gail Krishnan

CNBC
February 1, 2011

Youth unemployment in Egypt and Tunisia was a ticking "time bomb", IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn told CNBC Tuesday, adding that he had warned of such a situation developing back in the summer.

"I remember that this summer I made a speech in Morocco about the question of youth employment including Egypt, Tunisia, saying it is a kind of time bomb and that one of the main concerns the government may have around the region was to try to fix this problem because it couldn't last very long," he said.

He said despite positive indicators at the macroeconomic level, it was impossible to ignore the high levels of inequality that existed.

"Such a high level of unemployment, especially youth unemployment, and such a high level of inequality in the country create a social situation that may end in unrest."

Egypt's economy is expected to have grown by an annualized 6 to 6.2 percent in the October to December quarter but 18 percent of the population still lives below the poverty line and official unemployment is running in the double-digits.

"You cannot expect to have nice economic development without having the society as a whole following," Strauss-Kahn added.

The IMF's Role

Strauss-Kahn said that while the IMF could not play a direct role in Egypt because its mandate revolved around macroeconomic and financial flows, the fund had to increasingly look beyond figures and "look at the way society behaves" to provide a "nice environment for growth".

"In many countries the tension between the different parts of the society have increased, and that's why we are more and more involved in the countries where we work, with the unions, civil society organizations, and try to take this into account," he added.

Kahn says the IMF advises countries to keep aside some resources, even when they are scarce, to help the most vulnerable and poor.

It's got very little to do very "Marxist" thought actually. It has just as much to with eg Joseph Schumpeter.

Once again I refer to the World-Systems Analysis of Immanuel Wallerstein.

My dear "The European", I'm truly very sorry that you had to live under Communism and are now forced under the new yoke of Capitalism. Apart from anything else it seems to have completely blunted your critical faculties.

 

THE EUROPEAN

9:47 AM ET

February 10, 2011

The European

I am hesitating to continue the argument for we are living in a different intellectual universe.
We had 70 years of pernicious encounter with the radical Left - both as ideology and practice - and that experience vaccinated the Eastern people against anything that looks even pale pink, not to mention red.

All the Leftist, neo-Marxist eggheads and prophets nowadays moved to the West to incur the same destruction on the ignorant and naive Western nations as their forbears did to the East.
And in the West they are revered as Gods.
Good for them.

As for the "forced" turn to free enterprise (capitalism):
We fought for it with arms like the 1956. Hungarian, 1968 Czech, Polish etc. uprising against your comrades.

My last word:
This is the lamentation and tears of the French Socialist media, Le Monde article in English:

"The anti-communist pressures created by 1989 have rehabilitated the concept of the nation-state in eastern Europe. That is why nationalist and ethnocentric rhetoric is not marginal there, but an axis that structures public and political life. It is hardly surprising that eastern European society increasingly leans to the right."

Note: No "PolCorr" police, "multikulti" and other assorted neo-Marxist crap.

http://mondediplo.com/2011/02/12farright

 

JOHN MILTON XIV

6:03 PM ET

February 10, 2011

Once again I refer to the

Once again I refer to the work of *Joseph Schumpeter*.

The World Systems Analysis of Immanuel Wallerstein.

The critical analysis of Capitalism - its fault lines; its crises; its structural and systemic weakness all of which are just as much due to its *successes* and its *failings* - extends well beyond the bounds of what can nominally be described as "Marxian" thought.

It's so widespread these days that depending upon one's interlocutor, one can pretty much pick and choose a body of thought.

You have a great deal of entirely justifiable hatred of the word or - of the "signifier" - "Marx" and the things which were done, and the systems which were constructed, in his name.

Fine.

Do you have a (blind and uncritical) hatred of the IMF and Strauss-Kahn, who I deliberately quoted instead?

(You probably should actually, but let's leave that to one side)

Do you have any (reflexive) reason to hate Keynes and Keynsians?

They will go as fay as to critique neo-liberalism and no further but nonetheless.

Then see the work of Joseph Stiglitz; Paul Krugman; J. K. Grailbraith I; J K Grailbraith II; Alan Blinder et al.

I apologize for my "egg-headedness".

I list all the above names because 1/ I am a nameless nobody who always prefers to defer to far greater minds than my own, but more importantly 2/ to hopefully press upon you that Capitalism is not only deeply flawed, it is on its last historical legs AND that this may be seen from the critical analysis which come from MANY quarters.

Here then. As far as I can make out this forecasting group draws upon a very wide range of traditions.

http://www.leap2020.eu/GEAB-N-51-is-available-Systemic-global-crisis-2011-The-ruthless-year-at-the-crossroads-of-three-roads-of-global-chaos_a5775.html

The success or otherwise of these theories depends upon their predictive ability. So let's wait and see.

In all sincerity, I wish you the best of health, strength, fortitude and luck. We're all gonna need it.

 

THE EUROPEAN

9:12 PM ET

February 10, 2011

Thomas Mann and the "Magic mountain" -novel

The writer in his famous novel describes a heated intellectual duel between two protagonists who are far away from the "real world" high up in a mountain.
Their argument and counter arguments were gushing back and forth without any agreement.

Since Plato there were thousands of philosophical theories, none of them worked in real life, most led to genocide like your favorite the Bolshevik one.

Meantime in Germany of today capitalism is blossoming, mass hiring taking place from other EU countries while the Krugmans of N.Y.Times and the Bolshevik tribe of Trocky - (permanent revolutions!) - dreaming of the second coming of Che to repair the world.

No talented, creative people ever paid attention to the "Frankfurt School" poisonous inculcation...
I don't need Monsieur Strauss-Khan a Socialist moneyman from the Soros clan to know that Egypt and the Middle East poverty is the result of Islam backwardness.

And get this: no amount of Chavezista red shirt can make up for the hundreds of lost years.
They will eat sand or you ought to support them.

 

JOHN MILTON XIV

2:47 AM ET

February 11, 2011

My dear European friend, are

My dear European friend, are you absolutely incapable of logic??

My points can very simply be summed in the following: a stable society is an egalitarian society eg. Denmark; Australia; Japan.

That's it. There's no need for you to *emote* like some traumatized child.

Given the amount of ad hominem attacks you engage in, I'll assume the following.

YOU are a an intensely arrogant, heartless and insane Russian oligarch or somesuch bastard, who is obviously doing very well, is corrupt to the core, and very probably an extremely heavy drinker who has never heard a dissenting opinion in his or her life.

Welcome to liberal democracy, my intensely ill-suited friend

Maybe then quotes from the Red Cross; Unicef; Amensty International; International Orthodox Church Charities (???) could thaw what remains of whatever heart you may or may not have. But I doubt it.

""the Krugmans of N.Y.Times and the Bolshevik tribe of Trocky - (permanent revolutions!) - dreaming of the second coming of Che to repair the world.

No talented, creative people ever paid attention to the "Frankfurt School" poisonous inculcation...
I don't need Monsieur Strauss-Khan a Socialist moneyman from the Soros clan to know that Egypt and the Middle East poverty is the result of Islam backwardness."

Yeah, now you see this bit of Jackson Pollock "reasoning". Strass-Kahn=Soros=Krugman=Trocky (whoever that is)=Frankfurt School = Chavez.
puts you firmly in the nutcase camp.

Fare thee well my frozen friend. And give my regards to Chichikov, next time you snort coke with him.

 

THE EUROPEAN

9:59 AM ET

February 11, 2011

Don't assume anything

I am a naturalized American citizen living in the States, I was granted political asylum for the time I spent in a Communist gulag as a young student during the Cold War era.
I am not Russian: I am from the same city than the puppet master Soros, so I do know what I am taking about.

The Krugmans, the Soros', Alinsky!! Herbert Marcuse, ("Frankfurt School Marxist") etc. all have cultural-ideological roots in E. Europe - Russia where their forebears invented and implemented the Red Terror.
The Pol.Corr. was conjured up by the Hungarian Marxist philosopher-henchman George Lukacs. (Wiki)

We are by 70 years ahead of you in knowledge as far as "Leftism" concern.

As for your intellectual brilliance: who is Trocky...his real name is this:
??? ????????? ????????? = Lev Davidovitch Bronstein
??? ????????? ??????? = Lev Davidovitch Trocky....pseudo name.

There is no formal rule concerning Cyrillic to Latin conversion so chill off.

 

THE EUROPEAN

10:03 AM ET

February 11, 2011

Correction

The Cyrillic script was not accepted by this software hence the many question marks. Sorry...

 

BLOGFODDER

1:30 PM ET

February 11, 2011

One thing right

Well, The European got one thing right. The countries of the FSU turned to Capitalism. They certainly didn't turn to Democracy. And they may never have the opportunity to do so. I live in Ukraine. The people I know would return to the stability of the Soviet system if they could. They recognize the many many faults of the system but at least it looked after the poor, the elderly, the disabled, the children far better than the current government.

Unfortunately, I think they do not realize why the system failed so miserably. Entrenched corruption, going back hundreds of years was part of the problem but there simply was no system of checks and balances. The PARTY was everything and ideology was used to over rule any attempts at reform, mainly to maintain the privileges of the (new) ruling class. I think America is headed this way.

John Milton XIV, I agree with you totally, democracy is far more egalitarian. Even Adam Smith, also much quoted but seldom read, warned against capitalism unfettered by government oversight. European, I am glad you are in America. From your savage rhetoric, you sound like you belong there, likely as a teabagger. And I am glad you are no longer in Siberia. It is a beautiful land. I should hate to see it spoiled.

 

PUBLICUS

2:52 PM ET

February 11, 2011

The Enlightenment ended empire and colonialism

The European Elightenment resulted in the end of empire and colonialism. It was because of the Enlightenment that in a brief period of history - 300 years - the ideas and the ideals of the Enlightenment and their real world application dispensed or disposed of emperors, dynasties of emperors, absolute monarchs, the empires and colonies they forcefully siezed and all of the self-glorifying monarchical cultural and social trappings they created to command their own peoples. Were it not for the European Enlightment, the West might still more resemble the CCP-PRC or Russia or Iran than to present the radical alternative to such people who remain deep in the muck of the win-lose human past. The coup de grace of the Enlightenment in Europe itself occurred as the immediate consequence of the the Great European War (1914-1918) which produced the complete and final collapse of the les ancien regimes of the previous thousands of years.

The Enlightement and its thinkers, too many to name here but let's just get some sense of them - Bacon, Descartes, Newton, Spinoza, Voltaire, Rousseau, Montesque - provided the intellectual and cultural foundations (and structures) which produced democracy as the means of government to succeed monarchy, emperors and empire. The end of emperors and the advent of democracy inevitably meant the end of empire. East Asia and the Middle East missed this however, so many societies and governments there, such as the CCP-PRC, Russia, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Egypt to name a few, continue to be reactionary towards the Enlightenment itself and the penumbra of the enlightment. The Enlightenment has penetrated East Asia in places such a Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, India and many others also too numerous to name in toto and for various historical reasons.

So as we see in such instances as the CCP-PRC, Russia, Saudi Arabia, the resistance to the Enlightenment and its enduring legacy is strong and firm. Iran, Pakistan, Egypt iner alia missed the Enlightenment completely and remain in a nebula oblongata of ill defined societies and cultures which not only are unable to identify their place in the modern or future world, but don't quite know domestically either who or what they are or where they might be going.

The European Enlightenment is not the Alpha and the Omega of all of human history, civilisation or of the future, but it far exceeds the world of the reactionary and regressive civilizations that were remote from it, unaffected by it, and which continue now and into the future fiercely to resist it. Their time will expire too in the face of the enduring strength of Enlightenment notions and now institutions such as individualism, relativism, rationalism, skepticism and much more that is of a higher order of thought and comprised of radically different notions concerning the development of human intelligence than the ancients were capable of having but who because they are the ancients continue to be worshiped in far flung reactionary cultures and societies.

As to present events in Egypt, were it not for the Elightenment the masses in Tahrir and elsewhere in Egypt's major cities would be chasing a pharoah out of his palace rather than effectively driving out a fast fading 20th century style petty president-dictator for life. Mr. Mubarek, meet Mr Marcos.

 

JOHN MILTON XIV

4:52 PM ET

February 11, 2011

2 things/questions

1/Agency. I'm sure you didn't mean for it sound like that. but you seem to think that ideas are agents.

In a large number of instances in your above post, if you had substituted "the people" or or someone's or some group's name then you would have the "real blood and guts" of history.

More substantially, yes I never denied the value of the Enlightenment. I just wanted also to point to the limitations of its *universalism* esp. when this 1/overrides the "localism" with which universalism must be tempered and 2/the obvious "imperialist" abuses that can carried by the erstwhile "universalists" without due restraint, moderation, and critical-self reflection on their part.

Prime example: the neo-cons.

See eg. John Ralston Saul "Voltaire's Bastards" (very overrated author and book in my view; but nonetheless a reference which may help make my point)

Immanuel Wallerstein "European Universalism: the Rhetoric of Power"

Stephen Toulmin "Cosmopolis"

2/ Over at the "Growing Concern Down Under" I came to the discussion late, but addressed a question to you.

 

PUBLICUS

1:25 PM ET

February 13, 2011

Ideas and materialism

You may have read something I did not write or inferred something I did not imply. Regardless, if I would say anything about an idea, I would say it is a catalyst or a metaphysical manifestation of an objective and material reality, or the conceptualization of a possibly which is predicated on an extant material objective reality. This is the basic statement I would make in a post such as this. We could speak to greater length, breadth and scope were we sitting in a parlor sharing brandy and cigars. However, discussing such matters in the foxhole that Egypt presently is becomes a more distant thought or consideration, so I'll stop at this point.

Confucians in China and globally (the global Confucious Institute) assert with absolute certainty that Confucian values are universal and eternal. This is not the view of the CCP of the PRC, but the Confucians and the current CCP regime have made some measure of peace between them, so Confucians are allowed to say this to one another if not publically.

This is not too dissimilar to so certain of my fellow Americans who assert that democracy and individual freedom are universal values that are common to all humanity and which, tho supressed, are values and urgings that are surging to emerge in peoples everywhere whether peacefully or explosively. The points of view are different and opposite, but the mindset is the same or similar. After the past 37 consecutive months living and working on the mainland PRC, I must say both points of view are wrongheaded. The Chinese sheeple are not crying or dreaming of democracy; neither are the people of the US longing for the day "universal and eternal" Confucian values arrive at US shores, values which include male dominance of the family, community, the entire society; that divorce and premarital sex are verbotten; that democracy is wrong and the (Platonic) rule of the meritorious elite is the way (the Tao) etc etc.

Present events in Egypt do in fact reflect the enduring influence and the continuing global impact of the European Enlightenment. The poster "The European" speaks from the standpoint of a harsh experience similiar to the harshness suffered by dissidents and demonstrators in the CCP-PRC. The imprisoned Nobel Peace Laureate Liu Jiaobo has a certain elegance about him, a sort of the elegance of a self styled martyr who is willing to serve his time in a Spartian and frigid prison to make his point. Others others react more strongly to their harsh experience under unchecked authoritarianism or totalitariansim so they can seem to bite rather than to wax poetic. I myself always enjoy seeing the CCP and their like get a good bite taken out of their arse.

 

PUBLICUS

11:10 AM ET

February 15, 2011

The Chinese Fenqing

Yeah, over at the topic about Australia and stronger naval defenses against the CCP-PRC I did write a response to your comments and questions concerning the fenqing, China's globalized 21st century KKK.

 

THE EUROPEAN

6:36 PM ET

February 11, 2011

Blogfodder: Solzhenitsyn is calling you!

I believe the unwritten rule is that we shall not digress or deviate from the original thread, that is the Egyptian situation.
Nevertheless I cannot resist the temptation to reply....

If you deem that my word are savage then only one question to you:
Have you ever talked to a Hungarian, Pole, Czech about the greatness of the Bolshevik ("egalitarian") rule? How about a Cuban who dodged a shark attack to escape?

If you did you'd find my words quite mild and civilized.
Remember the COMECON era when Hungarians made the shoes and food stuff for you? The long lines, empty shelves?
The E. Germans made cars out of paper, named Trabant?
The knock off crappy Fiat, named Zighuli?

You are still living in the Utopian "Worker Paradise"?
Democracy without the "benevolent" Party membership?
Killing the Kulaks?

You sound like a satire; or an old pensioner who carries Stalin's picture in the Red Square in 2011, clad in war time medals.

Marxism is no longer salable but keep trying. Good luck.

 

PUBLICUS

11:45 AM ET

February 15, 2011

Cowboys and Indians

As one born and raised in the US, I note Tombstone AZ is an appropriate place for you to be writing from AZCowBoy. Historically Tombstone has a dubious record of having lot of shootouts, death and mayhem, so the lineage of such thinking is easy to trace and bookmark to discuss as the particular and peculular mindset extends itself into the contemporary world.

A serving elected Member of the US House of Representatives, in the Democratic Party, last month was shot in the head in AZ and others killed or maimed. Her astronaut husband will not make his previously scheduled journey into space as the direct consequence of the shooting of his wife not far from Tombstone Arizona. Then there are Arizona's recently new draconian immigration laws where the police have the authority to stop someone/anyone if the person is driving while Hispanic - or standing while Hispanic or walking while Hispanic.

 

CARRY RUDEN

2:37 PM ET

March 11, 2011

Why We Can't Rule Out an Egyptian Reign of Terror

A historian's look at revolution and its discontents. 1/Agency. I'm sure you didn't mean for it sound like that. but you seem to think that ideas are agents. "In recent years, it seems as if the 1789 type of revolution has lost its appeal for most of the world. During the greatest series of political upheavals in recent times -- the collapse of communism -- most leaders of the victorious reform movements rejected the word "revolution" altogether. The Polish Solidarity leader Jacek Kuron went so far as to write in the summer of 1989, apropos of the French Revolution's bicentennial, that Poland did not want a revolution because revolutions spill too much blood money investment. Germans refer to the events of 1989 as the "Turning," not the "Revolution. " It was, above all, in Czechoslovakia that the word "revolution" came to describe what happened in 1989, but paired with the word "velvet" to underscore the differences from the great revolutions of the past. 12NEXT Save big when you subscribe to FP. " Germans made cars out of paper, named Trabant? The knock off crappy Fiat, named Zighuli? You are still living in the Utopian "Worker Paradise"? Democracy without the "benevolent" Party membership? Killing the Kulaks? You sound like a satire; or an old pensioner who carries Stalin's picture in the Red Square in 2011, clad in war time medals. Marxism is no longer salable but keep trying. Good luck.