Libya Is a Problem from Hell

Why isn't Obama listening to Samantha Power's advice when it comes to intervention in Libya?

BY JAMIE M. FLY | MARCH 16, 2011

As Col. Muammar al-Qaddafi's forces advance toward Benghazi, Barack Obama's administration continues to dither in its response to Libya's crisis. Although the U.S. president insists that all options are on the table, his administration has failed to outline a plan that could conceivably help the Libyan rebels oust Qaddafi and end the bloodshed. The weak American response pales in comparison with countries such as France -- which has recognized Libya's revolutionary council as the country's legitimate government and has contemplated airstrikes -- and even the Arab League, which endorsed a no-fly zone over the weekend.

Meanwhile, some in the foreign-policy establishment have marshaled a number of arguments for U.S. inaction. Council on Foreign Relations President Richard Haass argued in the Wall Street Journal, for example, that U.S. interests in Libya were "less than vital" and made the case that a no-fly zone would be ineffective at halting Qaddafi's forces. Writing in the Washington Post, retired Gen. Wesley Clark stated that "violence in Libya is not significant in comparison" with recent civil wars in Africa and fighting in Darfur, and that there is "no clear basis for action." And early in the conflict, when reports of regime violence against civilians were at their peak, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Mike Mullen claimed, "We've ... not been able to confirm that any of the Libyan aircraft have fired on their own people."

These arguments are not new. They have been brought forth time and again when the United States and the international community debated whether to intervene in order to halt state-sponsored attacks on civilians. What's more, one of the most eloquent rebuttals to these recurring claims for nonintervention was penned by none other than an official currently serving in the Obama administration. Senior National Security Council official Samantha Power, in her 2002 Pulitzer Prize-winning book A Problem from Hell, identified several reasons behind the United States' repeated failure to prevent genocide.

The first reason for U.S. inaction to prevent the mass killing of civilians is supposed lack of knowledge. In many cases, Power notes:

The most common response is, "We didn't know." This is not true. To be sure, the information emanating from countries victimized by genocide was imperfect. Embassy personnel were withdrawn, intelligence assets on the ground were scarce, editors were typically reluctant to assign their reporters to places where neither U.S. interests nor American readers were engaged, and journalists who attempted to report the atrocities were limited in their mobility. As a result, refugee claims were difficult to confirm and body counts notoriously hard to establish. Because genocide is usually veiled under the cover of war, some U.S. officials at first had genuine difficulty distinguishing deliberate atrocities against civilians from conventional conflict.

Despite these difficulties, it is clear that the violence being deployed by the Libyan regime is indiscriminate and not solely directed at the poorly armed rebels. Qaddafi expressed his intention early in the conflict to "cleanse Libya house by house," and as government forces attempt to retake towns controlled by the rebels, reports of shelling of civilian areas and firing on civilian and humanitarian vehicles have increased. Refugees fleeing the initial outbreak of violence described a brutal scene of bodies hanging from electricity poles and militia trucks loaded with the dead.

As Power wrote about previous U.S. responses to genocide, "U.S. officials who 'did not know' or 'did not fully appreciate' chose not to." It might be convenient to avert our eyes or write off such reports as exaggerated opposition claims, but there are enough examples of such accounts that the human toll in Libya is undeniable.

Skeptics of intervention also argue that the United States cannot have much of an impact without a sizable U.S. military commitment -- a commitment that is then dismissed as imprudent.

U.S. ambassador to NATO Ivo Daalder raised this point last week, saying, "Even if [a no-fly zone] were to be established, [it] isn't really going to impact what is happening there today." Haass also made this case in his Wall Street Journal op-ed, claiming that if a no-fly zone is not enough, the United States would then need military personnel on the ground, which would be a drastic and unwise escalation of U.S. involvement. Similarly, Defense Secretary Robert Gates told lawmakers that the implementation of a no-fly zone "begins with an attack on Libya to destroy the air defenses," essentially an act of war.

PATRICK BAZ/AFP/Getty Images

 

Jamie M. Fly is executive director of the Foreign Policy Initiative. During U.S. President George W. Bush's administration, he served at the National Security Council and in the Office of the Secretary of Defense.

WARISFORSUCKERS

6:29 PM ET

March 16, 2011

Solution to a problem?

Well, I've argued for weeks (granted, to no one in a position to do anything about it) that the U.S. should've been using its drones and planes to drop hundreds of small video cameras all over Libya, with instructions that people there should attach them to buildings and walk away, etc., and from which all international media outlets could use as live feeds that they can switch from /if the regime destroys them.
With a constant 24 hour news-feed worldwide, it puts the people of Libya in a position to win with nonviolence. This would effectually prevent any excuse of "exaggerated opposition claims" when Qaddafi uses violence. It probably also puts Qaddafi in a more restricted position (as with Mubarak) with regards to violence than would a no-fly zone. Any attempts, even sneaky ones (i.e. pro-Mubarak goons), to use violence against the opposition would be seen by all, and any foreign support or "commodity-based" influence Qaddafi retains (and needs to survive) would be immediately in jeopardy.
The people could then maintain multiple indefinite massive protests in power centers until Qaddafi is ousted.

Maybe this scheme wouldn't work at all, but I felt it worthy enough of telling FP readers.

 

AGRICOLA

8:14 AM ET

March 17, 2011

Creative!

Creative!

I credit you with thinking outside the box!

I think the Palestinians do this now to film Israeli soldiers when ever they can. It works for them, so that the once a year an Israeli soldier does something dumb, its caught on film, but doesnt show anything positive about em. It is a good PR strat.

 

JERHOLTON

8:19 PM ET

March 16, 2011

Come off it.

Ms. Fly,

You write: "The fact that European allies such as Britain and France, whose militaries lack the size and advanced capabilities of the U.S. armed forces, have seemed much more willing to intervene seems to indicate that it is the Pentagon's traditional noninterventionist tendencies --- rather than resources -- that lie behind its reluctance to get involved."

I would submit that Europeans supportive rhetoric is not a sufficient dismissal of the Pentagon's concerns. If Europe does decide to act on this, and I would argue that they have much more pressing interests in Libya than we do, by all means let them. I'll believe your statement about Europe's gung-ho interventionist attitude when I see it.

 

N.B. ROBINSON

9:29 PM ET

March 16, 2011

And Then What?

Suppose the United States intervenes successfully, could there be anything that would embolden failed or fence-sitting revolts elsewhere in the Middle East more? If we're willing to play here, we've got to be willing to play everywhere. Are we going to stop the Saudis from the powers that be in Bahrain? Are we going to take sides in Yemen's civil war? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the same thing that happened in Vietnam and Nicaragua? We're hands off until the guy we want loses.

Can we afford that PR that will come from not backing every other revolt that will come after this? What happened to the Kurds in the first Gulf War?

This isn't our fight. It's Europe's oil, let them deal with it. Where do the neighboring Arab states come in on all of of this anyhow? If it was as serious of a concern to anyone as this administration has made it out to be, it would be to them.

 

COMETLINEAR

9:43 PM ET

March 16, 2011

Isn't is possible we've misinterpreted these events?

Isn't it possible we've incorrectly interpreted a bunch of civil wars as revolutions? We certainly initially misjudged the situation in Libya, and Gadaffi's chances of survival in particular...

Now we see the govt. of Bahrain being cast as an evil villain. Yet this is one of the most moderate states in the entire Middle East, fighting an Iranian sponsored insurrection.

US policy seems muddled because this is indeed not a black and white situation.

We will take sides at our peril.

 

SAM FROM CALIFORNIA

10:56 PM ET

March 16, 2011

Bahraini shiites dont deserve rights?

This isn't an "Iranian backed conspiracy" or some BS, this is a murderous totalitarian monarchy repressing 60% of its people.

 

THE GLOBALIZER

11:28 AM ET

March 17, 2011

No

Bahrain is only muddled because of the presence of a very large US navy base there.

Tunisia too was a "moderate state", yet one with limited freedom of expression, just like Bahrain. Just because you don't see the problem doesn't mean that there is no problem, and the citizens of those nations are clearly attesting to the existence of some problem.

It's also worth noting that corruption is motivating many of these movements. You don't have to look far to find how abusive the Bahraini monarchy has been with national assets.

 

COMETLINEAR

9:56 PM ET

March 16, 2011

Genocide?

You seem to be throwing that term around rather liberally, Mrs. Fly.

 

SAM FROM CALIFORNIA

10:53 PM ET

March 16, 2011

Funny thing about the world police

If we intervene in Libya, the navy in the Persian Gulf should turn its guns on the government of Bahrain which is murdering its people right now too, or stop supporting the thug in Yemen. Or what about Ivory Coast? Are the people there less interesting to Neocons than Libyans?

I'd love it if the rebels won in Libya, but the hypocrisy of demanding intervention in Libya while we support murderers elsewhere shows that it has to do with oil and geopolitics, not a real opposition to Gaddafi's policies. Let's face it, people love to think of the US government as the world's police, but every time it acts in that way, it only ever does so according to its interests.

 

DIPLOMIKE

11:37 PM ET

March 16, 2011

Strawman

An excellent discourse on inaction in the face of genocide, which, despite the actions of the Libyian gov't, this doesn't appear to be...
From Art. II of the relevant convention:

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

All well and good to argue moral grounds, but claiming genocide outside the real, formal definition confuses the issue and makes it even harder to act appropriately (and as required by the Convention) during the next Rwanda...

 

KEVINSD

12:51 AM ET

March 17, 2011

You can't wake someone who is pretending to be asleep

As much as I hate to say it, I think the Obama administration has made a cold and calculated determination that if the intervened in Libya this would increase the chances of civil (and later violent) insurrection elsewhere. The US can live with a resurgent Qaddafi. Civil war in Saudi Arabia would send the world economy into a tailspin.

My hunch, btw, is that the Obama brain trust has miscalculated, and the iron fist responses of the various autocracies will create bigger problems for everyone. The whole notion of "humanitarian response"--the bystander, witnessing harm, decides to get involved--is grounded in an assumption which doesn't apply here: the US is an involved party.

 

GONZOV

5:28 AM ET

March 17, 2011

Any conflict in any sovereign

Any conflict in any sovereign state that doesn't transcend its own boarders must be considered a domestic issue. It is not the "job" of the world community to intervene in local power struggles, even though thats basically what it does. The EU has a larger economic interest in Libya then the US and is therefor more likely to intervene in "Ghaddafis" business- Though the consequences of such action is likely to have longterm effects in European security. Ghaddafi is a man of hes time and with roots in the leftist extreme organizations.

I fear that leaders like Ghaddafi would aid far-left and anarchist groups in Europe to temper with EUs efforts for stabilization. Like in the 60s- 70s with RAF as an example, coordination with Palestinian terrorist groups.

One has to be careful and monitor the extremists of a.e Greece, Italy and Spain.

 

JAYDEE001

11:01 AM ET

March 17, 2011

What's the rush to intervene in another Arab internal conflict?

Based on the latest reports, the "revolution" against the Libyan dictator may be over before the UN and NATO decide what to do about it. That is just as well, since we seem to be as anxious to rush into another war here as we were in the case of Iraq, where we fired up the war machine before we carefully analyzed the justification for doing so. The result in that instance was involvement in a protracted occupation in that nation which we are learning was based on fraudulent intelligence and poor planning.

We did not rush into Tunisia when the Tunisians threw off their corrupt leader (a former friend and ally of the US); we did not intervene in Egypt when the crowds in the square achieved the ouster of Mubarrak (another former friend and ally of the US); we will not stop the potentates of Bahrain, or Jordan, or even Saudi Arabia from maintaining their power by force of police actions against their citizens (all are still considered allies of the US). And who appointed us to pick winners and losers in these civil wars in any case?

So far, two out of three victories for the people ain't bad. The long-term outcome in terms of improved civil rights for the citizens of those countries and for democratically elected leaders is still in doubt. It could be that we will face popularly elected governments that decide their people do not want them to be friendly to US interests. It may not change our policies much in that case; armed intervention in any of these countries would certainly not be welcomed. We have had no over-riding national interests at stake in any of these conflicts in Egypt, Tunisia, or Libya. Let's keep it that way.

 

LITTLEMANTATE

11:25 AM ET

March 17, 2011

The Rebels' targeting of Subsaharan Africans?

Where does that fit into your narrative, Ms. Fly? Technically speaking, Gaddafi is not engaging in ethnic cleansing. There are other, more applicable legal excuses that could be used against Gaddafi, but you are stretching here.

Moreover, why don't we address the ethnic cleansing of Christians from Iraq, or consider what might happen to the Copts in a newly liberated Egypt?

Hardline Israeli policies towards the Palestinians? I

The problems with Western Interventionists is that they tend to be very selective in their causes. Even the term genocide, per the UN resolutions, is problematic. It was deliberately crafted to exclude Soviet and Bolshevik attrocities. I'm surprised that Ms. Power has not commented extensively on ongoing problems in Kosovo, for example, considering that region was one of her concerns.

 

FIGHTINGFALCON

12:27 PM ET

March 17, 2011

No!

I am so tired of these neo-cons wanting the U.S. to get involved in every single conflict around the world. Don't you people have any shame? Can't you all do us a favor and simply leave the foreign policy arena after the disaster that you created in Iraq?

Do you want to know why France and Britain are more willing to get involved? Because they know that, should the West get involved, it will primarily be a U.S. military effort. That's why SecDef Gates is (rightly) cautious while our European allies are demanding for us to get involved. How many sorties would the French Air Force fly in the initial phase of operations? The phase where you attack Libyan ground air defenses and radar stations? My guess is that those sorties will come entirely from the U.S. Air Force.

And what happens when a plane gets shot down? Libya has a relatively modern air defense system, with state-of-the-art Russian SA-5 platforms. The risk of a downed aircraft are very real, which includes the possibility of having to send U.S. personnel on the ground. That's a nightmare scenario that none of us should want to be involved in.

While my heart goes out to the Libyan people, there is no genocide there. It's not even a humanitarian crisis worthy of revoking Libyan sovereignty. If Libya, why not the Ivory Coast? If Libya, why not Zimbabwe? If Libya, why not Myanmar?

To anyone advocating that the U.S. get involved here - please do us all a favor and be quiet.

 

KILLA ABDULLAH

12:32 PM ET

March 17, 2011

To Hell With Libya

I couldn't care less what happens to the Libyan rebels, a lot of them are jihadists who just got back from killing Americans in Iraq. If we end up going into Libya, as it's starting to look like we might, we go in on our terms, and we go in with all the force we think is necessary, and we go in to serve our own selfish national purposes. And we don't leave until we kill Qaddafi or capture him and bring him back to the US so we can try him for murdering Americans and execute him. And if it turns out that the jihadists who are fighting Qaddafi turn on us, we give them the same medicine. That's if we go in, which I don't think we should.

 

ZORRO

2:09 PM ET

March 17, 2011

A Troubling Sign

"...a troubling sign about a possible re-emergence in the Pentagon of the so-called Powell doctrine, which held that any involvement required overwhelming force, needed broad international support, and a clear exit strategy. "

Basic sanity is a troubling sign? Is black now white? I basically can't parse that sentence.

 

ZINDIQ

9:29 AM ET

March 18, 2011

It's funny..

that in this discourse of whether we should stop the violence - no one is stopping to think "CAN we stop the violence?" The entire argument is predicated on the assumption that we can end this by simply choosing to intervene, the same faulty reasoning employed by Donald Rumsfeld during our invasion of Iraq. Sure we can land some troops on the ground, destroy the Libyan military and oust Quaddafi - but then what?

What do we do when there are multiple groups wanting to step into the power vacuum? (anybody remember the election process in Iraq post-Hussein)

Do we choose sides then and fight against one group of Libyans over another?
(That's sure to win friends and influence people)

How long are we prepared to stay and fight for group A?
(How long have we been in Iraq and Afghanistan now? Are either ready to stand on their own? Is there a viable end in sight for either conflict?)

Where do we stand if groups A and B decide that a civil war is the only way to decide who gets to be the next Quaddafi? (If you think the current violence is bad, with an all out civil war this will look like a walk in the park..remember Iraq 2003-2008?)

This is a proverbial tar baby, if ever we lay hands upon it - we shall not be able to free ourselves without a great deal of time and effort, and getting very dirty in the process.

 

THE_GEEK

12:38 PM ET

March 18, 2011

No Fly Zone

Wonder why France and Great Brittain didn't intervene a few years ago to establish a no-fly zone over the Branch Davidian compound? Answer - that was an internal domestic matter. As much as I destest both situations, so is Libya.

 

WGALLEGO680

1:03 PM ET

April 15, 2011

Libya Is a Problem from Hell

Why isn't Obama listening to Samantha Power's advice when it comes to intervention in Libya?. Creative! I credit you with thinking outside the box! I think the Palestinians do this now to film Israeli soldiers when ever they can. It works for them, so that the once a year an Israeli soldier does something dumb, its caught on film, but doesnt show anything positive about em. It is a good PR strat. "Meanwhile, some in the foreign-policy establishment have marshaled a number of arguments for U. S. inaction. Council on Foreign Relations President Richard Haass argued in the Wall Street Journal, for example, that U. S. interests in Libya were "less than vital" and made the case that a no-fly zone would be ineffective at halting Qaddafi's forces. Writing in the Washington Post, retired Gen college classes. Wesley Clark stated that "violence in Libya is not significant in comparison" with recent civil wars in Africa and fighting in Darfur, and that there is "no clear basis for action. " And early in the conflict, when reports of regime violence against civilians were at their peak, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Mike Mullen claimed, "We've. not been able to confirm that any of the Libyan aircraft have fired on their own people. "" Just because you don't see the problem doesn't mean that there is no problem, and the citizens of those nations are clearly attesting to the existence of some problem. It's also worth noting that corruption is motivating many of these movements. You don't have to look far to find how abusive the Bahraini monarchy has been with national assets.