Interview: Ehsan ul-Haq

Pakistan's former head of Inter-Services Intelligence discusses 9/11, bin Laden and Pakistani security.

INTERVIEW BY CHARLES HOMANS | JUNE 8, 2011

Gen. Ehsan ul-Haq took office as the head of Pakistan's powerful Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) directorate in October 2001, and by the time he retired six years later he had risen to chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee.* Those positions placed him at the center of the post-9/11 hunt for Osama bin Laden and prosecution of the war in Afghanistan, in which the relationship between Pakistan and the United States on intelligence and military matters was a roller coaster of collaboration and suspicion. Haq spoke with Foreign Policy's Charles Homans in London -- where the general was addressing reporters at a Thomson Reuters Foundation seminar on security and terrorism -- about the Afghanistan war, Pakistan's recent security troubles, and just how much the ISI knew about where bin Laden was.

Foreign Policy: Where were you when you heard about the 9/11 attacks?

Ehsan ul-Haq: On 9/11 I was corps commander* in Peshawar, with responsibility for the western border with Afghanistan and security in the tribal areas of Pakistan and our northwestern province, what is now called Khyber-PK. And of course, it was shocking news for everybody -- it was for me personally. And I didn't realize how much it would impact on my personal life, how the world would change, how Pakistan would change.

FP: From there to the end of your tenure in 2007, what was your understanding or suspicion of where bin Laden was?

EH: I was asked [to take over as lead of the ISI] on Oct. 7, 2001, when the bombing of Kabul began.… Of course, our awareness of al Qaeda at that stage was very limited because al Qaeda was not operating in Afghanistan -- it was an Arab phenomenon. Yes, it was transiting through Pakistan and Iran and other countries, but since they had not really operated in Pakistan, so we were not much aware of its dimensions, its role, its intentions, its objectives-these were things that were new to us, and it took time for us to really reconcile with it. But very quickly, we did achieve very substantial successes and close cooperation with other intelligence services, particularly the CIA.

As far as Osama bin Laden is concerned, frankly speaking, after Tora Bora we only heard the information that was shared with us at the time. After that, there were never any authentic reports on Osama bin Laden until his killing in Abbottabad.

FP: Did you have suspicious as to where he would have been?

EH: There were all sorts of insinuations; there were all sorts of assessments … that [bin Laden] might possibly have been killed … [or] that he was possibly in the border area between Afghanistan and Pakistan. There was sometimes a finger raised that he was in Pakistan. We would reject that and say simply, "Look, if you have information that he is in Pakistan, say he is in Pakistan. If you don't have information, to say that since there is no information, therefore he is in Pakistan, is not fair." My view was, we don't know where he is, so he may well be here, or he may be in Afghanistan, or he may be anywhere. But since we don't know, to conclude … he is in Pakistan is wrong.

ROSLAN RAHMAN/AFP/Getty Images)

 SUBJECTS: PAKISTAN, SOUTHEAST ASIA
 

Charles Homans is features editor at Foreign Policy.

TAIMUR MALIK

9:44 PM ET

June 8, 2011

Also the interviewer clearly

Also the interviewer clearly doesn't know much about the region in general or Pakistan (like most journalists covering Pakistan, which further antagonizes Pakistanis who believe the Western media is maligning them). Anyhu, I haven't even read the whole piece yet when in the first few lines I see that the author has wrongly claimed that Gen. Ehsan was the "commander in chief ", which is incorrect because President Musharraf was the Chief of the Army Staff (the proper title of the man on top), Gen Ehsan was instead the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

 

P.J. AROON

4:13 PM ET

June 9, 2011

Corrected

We corrected it to "chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee." Thanks for letting us know.

--FP copy chief

 

 

TAIMUR MALIK

9:46 PM ET

June 8, 2011

Are you kiddinge me

"I was co-commander of Peshawar". Who is Charles Homans? It is CORPS COMMANDER!

 

LALARUKHSAUD

7:23 AM ET

June 9, 2011

where is the research on this piece

Taimur Malik i totally agree with you. Either the writter didn't do any reaech or is not aware of the backgroud of the person he is interviewing.

 

P.J. AROON

10:35 AM ET

June 9, 2011

Corrected.

Thanks for pointing out the transcription error. We've corrected it.

--FP copy chief

 

JGULLICKSON

2:11 AM ET

June 9, 2011

Walking a thin line

Very interesting article and Ehsan seems to be very knowledgeable about the delicate situation between the United States and Pakistan. Having said that I totally disagree with Ehsan's comments that there has been greater successes in our collaborative relationship between the ISI and the CIA. I see no basis for this statement seeing as how the only success that we have scene thus far has been the actions of the CIA working on their own like a skillful surgeon eliminating a disease. Until the ISI can demonstrate the ability of accurate intelligence gathering and distance itself from al qaeda ties it will continue to be defined by the embarrassment of Osama Bin Ladin living peacefully undetected in their own backyard and their inability to detect foreign forces crossing their border. It will be interesting to see how this delicate relationship plays out in the next few years.

 

LALARUKHSAUD

7:36 AM ET

June 9, 2011

Line your facts before commenting

@ JGULLICKSON: what about Khalid sheikh mohamamd, libi and thousands of others that the americans grilled to get to the information for which they are taking all the credit? Let me refresh your memory they were all caught by ISI (yes, Pakistan's Interlligence services).
secondly, if you call somebody your ally you should learn to trust them.
thirdly, the foreign forces went undetected becoz the technology used is meant to make them undetectable, if pakistanis had detected them than that would've killed the whole purpose of using the staelth heli's won't it?

 

J. T.

7:36 AM ET

June 9, 2011

Shallow

Shallow interview by a journalist who seems unprepared. Almost reads like a set of questions being prepared in advance and responses mailed back ! Expect better from FP.

 

KHALID RAHIM

10:20 AM ET

June 9, 2011

Unscrambling the puzzle of ISI?

Ever since Pakistan joined the proxy war of United States in 1980
this department has been under constant pressure and critcism from sources within and outside the country. In some cases true, in
others fabricated to suit the vested interest of certain parties. In this
interview Charles Homans really wanted to tell General(R) Ehsan ul Haq that ISI has proved a security failure since 09/11 and the two incidents of Abbotabad and Karachi leaves the world no option
but to secure Pakistan's Nuclear Assets. Some how Homans lost his nerve seeing the General's hard expression and started asking
questions that were really not on his agenda. Would he travel to Pakistan and seek interviews with other Director Generals of ISI or
seek help from B Raman and others to rub salt in the wounds that
CIA has been inflicting in the last three years.

 

MASIO07

11:42 AM ET

June 9, 2011

Confessions!

I don't assume the ISI as a homogeneous entity and Ehsan ul-Haq better than anybody knows what I mean. But one thing I'm not sure of, and that is if he leads the pro-collaboration sector of ISA or the sector that from our perspective is the rogue one. The way he talks about al-Qaeda and Afghanistan before 9/11 is ridiculous. You don't need to be an intelligence officer to know how closely the ISA, Talibans and AQ work closely together in Afghanistan to take over the entire country from 1995 to 2001.
He has to admit that the ISI cannot continue playing its old game. With this interview you also have to admit that you are either a dysfunctional intelligence service or a rogue one. The choice is yours.

 

MARTY MARTEL

6:28 AM ET

June 11, 2011

'PROPAGANDA' continues

One should NOT expect head of Pakistani ISI to confess to crimes any more than sun to rise in the west.

Another Pakistani ISI Director General Mahmud Ahmad had asked Omar Sheikh (the kidnapper of Daniel Pearl) to send $100,000 from a Dubai bank account to Mohammed Atta (the lead 9/11 hijacker) in 2000, one year before those attacks. Mohammad Atta used that $100,000 for flight training, living expenses and to purchase flight tickets on the day of 9/11 attacks in US and returned unspent $25,000 back to same Dubai account. Musharraf was forced to retire ISI director General Mahmud Ahmad after Wall Street Journal exposed General Ahmad as the chief financier of 9/11 attacks. Pakistani ISI was heavily involved in planning and execution of 9/11 attacks as corroborated by former Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Bob Graham.

Previous US ambassador Anne Patterson to Pakistan, wrote in a secret review in 2009 that ‘Pakistan's Army and ISI are covertly SPONSORING four militant groups - Haqqani‘s HQN, Mullah Omar‘s QST, Al Qaeda and LeT - and will not abandon them for any amount of US money‘, as diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks show.

Ambassador Patterson had NO reason to mislead her own State Department and U. S. government.

Nobody forced it but Pakistan’s democratic government of its own free will, facilitated relocation of Osama bin Laden from Sudan to Afghanistan via Karachi in 1996.

Nobody forced Pakistani Army and Intelligence to create what ex-CIA official Bruce Reidel called ‘this jihadist Frankenstein’ monster in 1990s. Pakistani Army and Intelligence chose to do so with the full financing provided by Pakistan’s democratic governments at the time.

Sandy Berger, Clinton’s national security advisor told 9/11 Commission in 2004 that 'Pakistani Army was the midwife of Taliban'. UN report on Bhutto killing released on 4/15/2010 confirmed this fact when it noted that "The PAKISTANI MILITARY ORGANIZED AND SUPPORTED THE TALIBAN TO TAKE CONTROL OF AFGHANISTAN IN 1996“.

Declassified DIA Washington D.C., "IIR (intelligence Information Report) Pakistan Involvement in Afghanistan," dated November 7, 1996 states how "Pakistan's ISI is heavily involved in Afghanistan," and also details different roles various ISI officers play in Afghanistan. Stating that Pakistan uses sizable numbers of its Pashtun-based Frontier Corps in Taliban-run operations in Afghanistan, the document clarifies that, "these Frontier Corps elements are utilized in command and control; training; and when necessary combat“.

Declassified U.S. Department of State, Cable "Pakistan Support for Taliban" from Islamabad dated Sept. 26, 2000 states that "while Pakistani support for the Taliban has been long-standing, the magnitude of recent support is unprecedented." In response Washington orders the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad to immediately confront Pakistani officials on the issue and to advise Islamabad that the U.S. has "seen reports that Pakistan is providing the Taliban with materiel, fuel, funding, technical assistance and military advisors. [The Department] also understand[s] that large numbers of Pakistani nationals have recently moved into Afghanistan to fight for the Taliban, apparently with the tacit acquiescence of the Pakistani government." Additional reports indicate that direct Pakistani involvement in Taliban military operations has increased.

 

MARTINCDL

12:07 PM ET

July 8, 2011

In some cases true

In some cases true, in
others fabricated to suit the vested interest of certain parties. In this
interview Charles Homans cdl really wanted to tell General(R) Ehsan ul Haq that ISI has proved a security failure since 09/11 and the two incidents of Abbotabad and Karachi leaves the world no option
but to secure Pakistan's Nuclear Assets.

 

MACORTEZ461

2:09 PM ET

July 8, 2011

Interview: Ehsan ul-Haq

Pakistan's former head of Inter-Services Intelligence discusses 9/11, bin Laden and Pakistani security. One should NOT expect head of Pakistani ISI to confess to crimes any more than sun to rise in the west. Another Pakistani ISI Director General Mahmud Ahmad had asked Omar Sheikh (the kidnapper of Daniel Pearl) to send $100,000 from a Dubai bank account to Mohammed Atta (the lead 9/11 hijacker) in 2000, one year before those attacks. Mohammad Atta used that $100,000 for flight training, living expe take a peek I don't assume the ISI as a homogeneous entity and Ehsan ul-Haq better than anybody knows what I mean. But one thing I'm not sure of, and that is if he leads the pro-collaboration sector of ISA or the sector that from our perspective is the rogue one. The way he talks about al-Qaeda and Afghanistan before 9/11 is ridiculous. You don't need to be an intelligence officer to know how closely the ISA,