I sure am tempted. Not only do the amenities seem nice, library, cooking classes, etc… but can you image being surrounded / rehabilitated by beautiful Norwegian women prison guards? Tie me up anyday. Haha!

I would love to commit a crime and go to prison... the cushy prison, that is... I am going to rob a bank now -- with my almost realistic looking water pistol. I hope I succeed, fingers crossed!

The living standards in the prison are better than what I am able to obtain in my unprisoned life.

Amira

If you were in the same situation as the elderly man who robbed a bank, how would you get to Norway? My god people...start using common sense. If you don't like the direction this country is headed do something about it. Stop listening to the lies that both partied spew at us daily, make your own informed decisions based on research.

Oh my gosh. I was thinking the same thing. If things get desperate, hop a plane to Norway and rob a bank.

Don't you understand sarcasm? That's what the writers of those posts were using. They were NOT serious. Stop looking for conflict where it does NOT exist.

I have to say, this journalist hasn't done his research very well. It is true we have a prison like this, but this is the best prison in Norway, and mostly for prisoners believed to rehabilitate. Breivik will not do his time in this prison, more likely he will go to Ila prison, totally different from Halden.

Mr Journalist, do you actually get paid for writing totally misinforming articles like this?

So you want to commit crimes in Norway? Was this avenger a buddy of yours?

When the USA was attacked 9/11/2001 Norway volunteered what help it had to offer.

And now you want to reward them? WHY?

Norway's incarceration rate: 66 per 100,000 inhabitants. US incarceration rate: 738 per 100,000 inhabitants.

Recidivism rate after prison in Norway: between 40 and 45 percent. In US, approximately 67 percent. (And the Norwegian figures were for life, I believe; the US ones are just for "within 3 years of release.")

...of the day the Dental Care Plan in my own US Commonwealth of residence was axed by a social-spending bigot of a Republican governor (who later went on to plan even greater crimes against suffering humanity as a CFR member, post-term). His Excellency the Governor executive-ordered (iirc) that axe-blow on the very day of a long-awaited and care-critical dental appointment. My dentist called and broke the news about an hour after news of the sudden-death action made it to the local AM News radio - and exactly an hour before I was due in their office.

I did not have a thousand dollars then, nor have I a thousand dollars today. No deal, sorry, have a nice day, thank you.

So I phoned up the administrative offices of a major Commonwealth prison. Told the Department of Corrections employee on the other end what had just taken place - and asked what exactly might be the minimally harmful crime that could in fact get me that much-needed dental care in a hurry, all steel bars and general dinginess alike be damned. (I was much younger and more impetious Back Then.)

The man expressed genuine sympathy, then informed me that in his opinion (although he was not an expert since he was no lawyer) no such "harmless crime" worthy of that level of confinement was lawfully possible. Then he let on that he knew exactly what I was driving at, and astutely as well as kindly suggested I might wish to put in for State Employment myself. Which I chose not to do, for mere reasons of Intransigent Conscience.

So my Inner Self is not in any direct pain over the matter - but me poor sufferin' teeth ain't been but gone to snaggly stubs ever since. (Arrr-rr-r.)

Ah, sweet Norway... Clearly, the prototypically kind old-school American Quaker Penance Legacy yet lives on, in and around Beautiful Oslo. Breivik'd be SuperMax'd and immured+tortured for life if tried under today's US law.

Fact: I for one tend to think that Norway's approach to Criminal Justice is kinder, gentler, safer, and all-around better. It apparently does NOT make violent+/corrupt criminals of the administrators thereof, quite unlike the state of affairs in most if not indeed all "privatized" US prison system facilities. (The recent "Cash for Convicts" scam conviction of two US juvenile judges rises to mind. A reported ~4000 underage prisoners were treated to an overturning ot their sentences and released; one judge drew 28 years Hard Time.)

Sheer safe+secure State Hospitality at its best. Long live Norway, and that morally impoverished 'n' murdering pseudohuman monster named Breivik too - in safe, hospitable, and interminable Norwegian State custody! The Rest of Us really need for guys like him to remain sequestered longtime (as with Charlie Manson) once convicted.

With no chance of release, even! Let Norway, the Norweigian people and all the good rulers thereof live long, just-hearted and fiscally solvent forever! (There *is* a Heaven on Earth, and our team of top scientists have at last both identified and located the coordinates...)

Sad and tragic no matter how it's sliced. And that is all. 0{:-\o<

Of course I do not judge anybody, but how the hell the Norwegian people let murderers get such conditions of a hotel? It's very strange to me, while we demand need no less than capital punishment, and they deserve it. Sites such as by land or sea claim to be "social" but they do not realize it was just bad. Marks Formary once said that no one smarter than the others, there is a more experienced person, and probably the Norwegians are less experienced in such cases of mass murder out of madness. Sad but probably true. They will have paralegal certifications or at least their own legal counsel, that to learn that a degree or online course would take time. They do not have too much time, you should will also come to First-Byte.com and will look at some of the articles, it might give them direction.

They're more enlightened than us.

LOL Just because a prison in another country allows its prisoners to have a flat screen TV we should kidnap him and punish him the right... I mean the American way? Now that makes a whole lot of sense.

It sounds like you speak for all arrogant Americans who think everything we do is right or better than anywhere in the world.

They simply have O I L - the rest comes from the money, gained on oil business. If Albania or for example Columbia had the same oil resources, they would surely have the same quality prison service.
Norvegian folks don't have anything special, only the oil -and from this piont of view I think it's even unfair..

Uhmmm, no I don't think he meant that Americans are always right- I think he meant that a sub-human scumbag who would randomly murder innocent children probably doesn't deserve rock climbing lessons at taxpayer expense. I don't think you need to be an "arrogant American" to figure that one out. This guy deserves the e-chair, that rusty one they have down in Florida....

This article is quite misleading. The prison shown is not a maximum security prison, so there is no way the terrorist would end up there. This is more akin to the prison where Martha Stewart went... Also, even though the maximum prison sentence is 21 years, they will not charge him with a regular prison-sentence, rather a "custody"-sentence, which means after 21 years, they can evaluate whether it is safe to put him back into society. If not, they extend it by several years, and they can repeat this until he dies.

To ISSTI who says it is just because they have oil, look at Nigeria with tons of oil; you think they have prisons like Norway? No. What about Saudi or Iraq, both with tons of oil? No. What about Iran? No. It's having both the resources and the cultural principles.

I don't think oil does it. Some of the richest oil countries in the world happily torture and behead criminals, and not for major crimes. I also doubt that a banana republic, on receiving an influx of oil money, would stop putting their criminals into hideous jails and torturing them. Mexico, to take an example, has oil; but going into a Mexican prison is going into hell.

It is difficult to imagine American prisons on the Norwegian model, mostly because America is cursed with high populations of people who are impulsive and violent and criminal wherever they appear in the world. They would abuse any freedoms found in prison. And because they exist in our prisons in such number, we can't extend those freedoms to any inmates. That said, America is sorely in need of judicial reform. Prison sentences are cruelly long even for minor crime. The standard political approach to higher crime is to impose longer sentences. This can go to absurd lengths. For example, a man in Michigan was caught with Japanese cartoons on his computer. The cartoons, which show child characters being outrageously sexual, are drawn to be shocking and grotesque, not sexy. They are obviously intended as absurd exaggerations. Yet, the authorities assumed this guy was a pedophile and gave him forty years in prison. Nothing in his life suggested that he was a pedophile and the cartoons were the only images on his computer that depicted children. And here's another example. A photographer in a small Virginia town was despised because a small part of his business was supplying nude pictures to the Internet. Just softcore stuff, with adult models. When his girlfriend took a drug overdose at his studio, the locals were presented with an opportunity to get rid of this guy. He was brought up on charges of negligent homicide and on minor charges that flowed from slipshod lab work. The jury found him guilty of everything and imposed the various sentences to be consecutive. The judge on the case admitted to being astounded by the verdict, but did not nullify it. The photographer is in prison for 38 years because he was disliked by puritanical locals. He is imprisoned in very bad conditions alongside murderers and rapists. His chances on appeal are slim. Our appeals courts are very reluctant to go against lower courts--to the extent of being do-nothing institutions. I love my country, but its treatment of criminals is disgusting.

"Norway's newest jail may hold rapists and murderers, but Halden Prison -- the country's second largest and most secure facility -- looks more like a posh sleepaway camp. In fact, architects say they purposely tried to avoid an "institutional feel." "

The article stated that he could end up here and the quote above states it is the "most secure facility". The article also states:

There's no capital punishment, and the longest jail term allowed is 21 years
(a caveat: if a prisoner is deemed to still be a threat, his sentence can be extended
in five-year blocks indefinitely, though it's highly unlikely, according to Norwegian
officials). In Norway, rehabilitation is the guiding principle, not punishment—a
somewhat difficult notion to swallow given the gravity and callousness of his crimes.

It doesn't look like he'll get much more than the 21 years unless he continues to verbalize his criminal intention. He could commit suicide since those rooms seem to have a lot of things he could use to do that.

As lenient as they appear, what do they do if they get an inmate that decides he isn't done committing murder and mayhem? There are no bars on the "cells" and the guards don't carry weapons. I guess he would just kill as many as he could before he wears himself out or gets away. I think their intentions are great but in this terrorist-around-every-corner day and age, it isn't always appropriate!

As already mentioned, this terrorist will not go to this prison. That being said; all prisons are highly humane and "cushy" as it was called here. Norway believe more in rehabilitation than punishmnet as revenge.
The terrorist will never get out of prison. Yes, that is a rare occurance in Norway, but this is also the biggest attack on Norwegian soil, so his case will be different.
Norway is one of the richest countries in the world, so remember when you say this looks better than your own living environment, it certainly doesn't over here. This is minimum comfort, and designed to ease prisoners way back into the real life.
Before everyone jumpes to conclusion and criticise this way, remember only 15% of Norwegian prisoners go back to jail after released. In the US I think it is more like 65% (or so I read). Please be careful before you decide your way is the only way.

Only 20 percent of Norway's GDP comes from oil. Even without the oil, the Norwegian economy is almost as large as the Swedish - a country with twice the population, and well known for it's quality of life.

Norway's big in shipping, deep sea construction, fish. Jarlsberg is norwegian. The state pension fund invests in many companies around the world and is currently is around 600 billion USD, a lot for a country with less than 5 million people. Norway is the 4th largest weapon exporter in the world.

But of course oil helped Norway where it is today. Losing the oil would not be a catastrophic.

So Norwegians shouldn't have oil? What, is that only reserved for arrogant Americans?

In case your ignorant, just on the off chance you don't know this, American has lots of oil! Yes, lots of it. It used to have lots more too. In Pennsylvania, yes the first well, in Texas, off shore in the gulf, California, in the Dakotas, in Montana, Louisiana, Alaska, etc. But Americans use up their oil very fast.

Because American's want oil they think it all belongs to them. In Iraq we went to war in what was initially call Operation Iraqi Liberation. Now the Iraqis may or may not have wanted liberation but they were smart enough to figure out what the initials O.I.L. spelled in English. When the Bush administration found out some Iraqi's knew English they changed the name of their project but they didn't change the laws they imposed which made it easy to steal, oh excuse me, to buy Iraqi oil at very very discounted prices if they didn't actually take it to pay for their military costs.

But I really doubt you're as ignorant as you seem. But you do feel that you and maybe some other Americans are entitled to take other peoples things. Most people call this piracy or stealing but your kind of American calls it entitlement. The Romans did that too. More recently a German clique thought they were superior to everyone else so they started taking whatever it was they wanted.

Enjoy your delusions while you can!

So Norwegians shouldn't have oil? What, is that only reserved for arrogant Americans?

In case your ignorant, just on the off chance you don't know this, American has lots of oil! Yes, lots of it. It used to have lots more too. In Pennsylvania, yes the first well, in Texas, off shore in the gulf, California, in the Dakotas, in Montana, Louisiana, Alaska, etc. But Americans use up their oil very fast.

Because American's want oil they think it all belongs to them. In Iraq we went to war in what was initially call Operation Iraqi Liberation. Now the Iraqis may or may not have wanted liberation but they were smart enough to figure out what the initials O.I.L. spelled in English. When the Bush administration found out some Iraqi's knew English they changed the name of their project but they didn't change the laws they imposed which made it easy to steal, oh excuse me, to buy Iraqi oil at very very discounted prices if they didn't actually take it to pay for their military costs.

But I really doubt you're as ignorant as you seem. But you do feel that you and maybe some other Americans are entitled to take other peoples things. Most people call this piracy or stealing but your kind of American calls it entitlement. The Romans did that too. More recently a German clique thought they were superior to everyone else so they started taking whatever it was they wanted.

Enjoy your delusions while you can!

Prison is meant to protect us more than it is meant to harm them.

That's probably the most luxurious prison on the planet. The homeless could not wish for a better shelter. No matter the luxury, it is still a prison. You still can't get out or visit your friends. Even if I agree that the U.S. system needs serious changes, this is not it. I've heard about some unusual facts about presidents and I'm sure that at least one of them will do something about the American prisons in the future, but this is wrong! THERE MUST BE JUSTICE FOR BREIVIK. There shouldn't be any "humane" treatment for a mass murderer.

Peculiarly, and ironically, Breivik was (insanely) committed to preserving the kind of society that treats its people this way. You judge a society by how it treats its poor and crazy and elderly, not how its rich people live. Breivik is worried that Norway's culture, and Europe's, will turn to Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Botswana, Pakistan. He's got a point, just not a technique.

your counter-argument does not really apply to this case does it? according to this article, this facility is a max-secure prison for violent offenders. the problem with U.S. detention centers is that they are increasingly occupied by small time drug offenders where gang affiliations are strengthened.

If the Nords were dealing with anywhere near as sophisticated of criminals as we deal with in the US, these kind of prisons would never be allowed. Even in our prison system, inmates manage to run gang empires, sneak in drugs, and carry out assassinations. Just imagine what they'd be able to get away with in that system. If they were in Norway, where the prison officials are encouraged to communicate with the inmates, our inmates would have those officials eating out of their hand.

Let me get this straight. What your saying is criminals in Norway are dumber than our criminals here in the US and our prison guards are more naive than the prison guards in Norway? That would be the same as catagorizing you as an ignorant buffoon.

Neither system is perfect, people are punished here where as criminals in Norway aren't really punished appropriately but recidivism is low. We need to find a better solution. There needs to be a punishment so that there is justice. Going to a place like that doesn't seem like justice is served, at least not from the point of view of the victims of those people's crimes.

Please tell me how your way is working better? We have one of the lowest crime rates and the best rehabilitation in the world, so I guess we do something right. To take away someones freedom is concidered punishment enough over here, and all the things that happens in US prisons (rape, fights etc) never happens here. We teach them to become more humane. It may seem naive to you guys, but that is our way of living.
Also remember this is a country where a single murder makes the front page news.
That beeing said, once again; the terrorist that shall still be unnamed will stay in prison for life, although it will be under quite good conditions.

you have brilliantly defended your culture, country, and people -even the criminals. this is a utopia of enlightenment and humanity, and i would very much like to live in norway. and not to commit crimes.

I visited all the Scandinavian countries back in the Sixties, and I regret I didn't have the good sense to emigrate there... too late now. I'm stuck with Limbaugh, Boehner, and all the other crazies.

I totally agree. Imagine if someone murdered your loved one and knowing that in prison they are going to live probably better than they did on the streets. Prison is supposed to be punishment and rehabilitation not just rehabilitation. Human beings learn by being punished for their wrong doings.

I could understand if it was a prison for only the most minor offenses but this is just retarded beyond belief. I wouldnt doubt if every "cell" had high speed internet and came with a sylvania netbook or laptop computer./a>.

Like I posted in another comment, some of our own prisons are as good..
Have cooking lessons, tvs, healthy food, exercise programs, and if I had checked even premium programs like P90X, who knows what other benefits they got. So, do not be so surprised, we just need to check our own prisons and see that committing a crime is not so bad after all.

Unlike us, Norway hasn't gutted the middle class to support the rich. It's one of those countries that had taken steps to avoid the whole 'struggling middle-income families' issue. In fact they've taken steps to avoid poverty in general.

Middle class families (even lower class) lives A LOT better than this in Norway, so that argument is invalid.

hear hear! i second that. wow snappy comments today..whose with me on the next viking ship?

Thank you rational person.

Why dont you go write that article then?

As a Norwegian, I must agree that this piece is unfortunately quite inaccurate and fundamentally lacks a discussion of the penal system as a whole.

Laugh all you want, but the Norwegian prison system seems to be working: The incarceration rate in Norway is 59 inmates per 100,000, compared to 737 per 100,000 in the U.S. Within two years of their release, 20% of Norwegian prisoners end up back in jail. In the U.K. and the U.S., the figure hovers between 50% and 60%. The 'humane' prison system is not a result of naivity, but a conscious and scientifically informed policy aimed at rehabilitating inmates and preparing them for a life without crime.

This system is, obviously, not constructed with terrorists such as Anders Behring Breivik in mind. But while any treatment he can expect will be too good for him, Breivik will probably be incarcerated at a prison significantly less 'luxurious' than Halden, which is not representative of most Norwegian prisons. Noone believes him worthy of any cushioned treatment. But if revenge or what he 'deserves' was to be the benchmark, even a morbid public execution would not cut it. Incarceration is intended to protect society against dangerous individuals and act as a deterrent, not as revenge. Most Norwegians understand and accept this. Almost 80 percent of 100,000 Norwegians polled on facebook reject changing our laws in order to give him the death penalty. This is a reflection of the attitude that terrorists should never succeed in changing our society or make us compromise our values and principles, no matter how horrific their acts. As for the sentence he will recieve, it will either be 30 years imprisonment for crimes against humanity, or 21 years of secured custody for acts of terrorism - the latter being indefinitely extendable for five years at a time. It is quite likely that he will never be released.

Thank you for such a great and EDUCATED answer! Obviously the logic behind it makes sense and seems to be working. It is unfortunate that some people assume that what happens in the US applies to any other country. If only people actually took the time to study other situations..they would know the truth. I do not hope he gets sent to THIS prison..because this terrorist is different..but i DO hope that rehabilitation is the focus..and that they try to take that ridiculous paranoia, racism and hatred out of his head.

My thoughts exactly. This piece of puffery has no place in a magazine that purports to be about policy. The question is, does it work?

How can you say something works when there is no justice involved. Just because the rate is very low for recidivism doesn't mean the person paid for their crime. I'm all for altering the American Penal System, but this is ridiculous. The PUNISHMENT MUST BE EQUAL TO THE CRIME.

How can you say something works when there is no justice involved. Just because the rate is very low for recidivism doesn't mean the person paid for their crime. I'm all for altering the American Penal System, but this is ridiculous. The PUNISHMENT MUST BE EQUAL TO THE CRIME.

"I don't care if it works, I just want them to suffer!" This strikes me as a pro-suffering, pro-crime position. I wonder in America if this is retributive, or merely a form of class rage. America prides itself on being economically mobile, but once you step over the line, you're effectively branded forever. Job options with a criminal record are exceedingly poor. The problem with voting people off the island is that they don't actually leave the island. What then?

Maybe it's the consumer culture which causes so many Americans to believe we can dispose of people as easily as our garbage. In Canada to some degree, and perhaps in Norway to a greater degree, recycling also extends to those who screw up. You can't build an entire penal system around Russell Williams, Paul Bernardo, or Marc Lepine. I was in Montreal at the time of the later incident, which was targeted not at Muslims, but at feminists. These people go into the bin for dangerous materials for handling by moon-suits. We all understand that.

A productive citizen is a benefit to the country rather than a liability. The direct costs are high in running a police force, courts, lawyers, and dehumanizing holding tanks on an industrial scale. The private interests running the prisons in America are as good at protecting their budgets as any government agency: they want to keep their wards on a short leash as they get paid a storage fee, and no one ever sends them a bill for lost productivity of citizens never returned.

It makes me wonder, has no one in America read the story of Jean Valjean or watched "The Mission"? It seems to be unthinkable that penance is a virtue. I'm not religious, so for me these stories are just about people, like the kind of people I've met in my own life.

I travelled to Sacramento on business around the time Rock Hudson became a poster child. Heat wave. It was 107 degrees there every day. Clouds of yellow pollen were floating down the streets in the mid-afternoon. Late one night when it cooled I went to sit by the small pool. A person of black/Hispanic origin told me I couldn't hang by the pool. Turns out he was the evening guard. I asked him what the deal was with the pool. We started to talk. We talked for three hours, sitting beside the pool. He was in his early twenties. Had fired a gun from a moving vehicle in a state of drug-addled paranoia. Went into hiding from the police; finally his grandmother convinced him to give himself up. Sentenced to two years hard time at a bad place. "If a body landed in front of you, you walked over it like you hadn't seen it." That kind of stuff. He wanted to straighten up, but had a bad temper, which he admitted. He hadn't heard yet that promiscuous sex had become a dangerous pursuit, or that there was a safer way to do it. He was attentive to circumstance, and talked a lot about his family. By the end of the conversation I feared the worst for his future. He didn't have many adult survival skills, such as relationships with women.

When we finally stood up hours later he said to me, "you know, you're the first white guy I've ever spoken with". First shock of the conversation. "Really? The first white guy?" "Yeah, you just don't seem to care that I'm a black guy." "Well, in Canada, some of us are like that." And to his credit, he didn't seem to care that a strange white guy told him not to get so wound up that he starts discharging guns at people from moving cars at two A.M. He said, "yeah, I know."

I think it reflects badly on Foreign Policy to run a piece like this entirely out of context. It just encourages people to become to enraptured in defense of labels, and to neglect people, society, and outcomes. We'll just get more prisons that contribute to more crime. Just like medicine, before it became outcome based.

I truly believe that crime is a result of misfortune and environment. People are born into gangs. A norwegian youth could never be a member of a badass New York gang simply because they are born here. They most likely will be part of a cushy "wannabe badass gang" who smoke a cigarette in the forest afraid that they'll get caught by their parents.

A murderer in the USA would probably not become a murderer in Norway had he grown up here.

As a result of this belief, I think that showing prisoners how life in freedom could be with some organization and structure is right. Repeat offenders are punished worse, and if the justice system think that you have not been rehabilitated then you will stay in jail or at a mental institution for possibly the rest of your life.

Ps: healthcare is free in Norway. The government in Norway spend less per capita on healthcare than the US. Vote for free healthcare in the US also. It's not socialism, it's common sense.

I truly believe that crime is a result of misfortune and environment. People are born into gangs. A norwegian youth could never be a member of a badass New York gang simply because they are born here. They most likely will be part of a cushy "wannabe badass gang" who smoke a cigarette in the forest afraid that they'll get caught by their parents.

A murderer in the USA would probably not become a murderer in Norway had he grown up here.

As a result of this belief, I think that showing prisoners how life in freedom could be with some organization and structure is right. Repeat offenders are punished worse, and if the justice system think that you have not been rehabilitated then you will stay in jail or at a mental institution for possibly the rest of your life.

Ps: healthcare is free in Norway. The government in Norway spend less per capita on healthcare than the US. Vote for free healthcare in the US also. It's not socialism, it's common sense.

Asking as a quirous Norwegian "How could you ever make the punichment equal to the crime?" Execute him, then wake him up from the dead, and repeat this 70+ times? How naive......

for aggression, which gets particularly pent up while people are in prison. US policies, like taking away weights and reducing gyms to old exercise bikes, means prisoners seek other means to channel their boredom and aggression. It usually is violence against each other.

... with a country of 300 million.

That said, I will readily admit the sheer size of our prison industry is a disgrace.

One of the main things that keeps them being criminals is that most employers will not hire you if you have a record. If they could get jobs it would help but when you have a high unemployment rate who do you think will get hired first.

which is that idle prisoners create the devil's work. No matter what country you are in, prisoners with less outlets for aggression and frustration will be more violent.

Unfortunately it would not work here in the US because our legal and prison system is big business. This is why over 10,000 innocent people get found guilty a year here. Its all about the fame for prosecutors as well as for defenders. I've read all the responses here and have come to the conclusion that most americans are just simply naive. Here in the US, the middle class has always been left out ( History proves it ). Failed health care system ( unlike in the EU ). We in america are ignorant and have a lot to learn from other societies who do things the right way. So for you americans out there pointing fingers, maybe you should point at yourself and see if your doing the right thing.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on the idea of reform via prisons, and that it should be the entire focus of prisons. Because keeping someone in prison as a way of keeping them out of society is, in the long haul a horrible form of punishment (in a cage, without hope of ever getting out) I feel the death penalty should be reserved for people like Mr. Breivik.

One issue there, however, is that once the label "terrorist" is used, often innocent people get executed, forgetting that today's terrorists are tomorrows statesmen--lest we forget the murders of the Irgun and Stern Gang that became such "honorable" leaders such as Begin and Meir. Mr. Breivik is not a freedom fighter, he's a racist and therefore, given his acts, is a perfect terrorist; other, middle eastern/east asian types that the US, Russia (and Israel) pursue are not so clear cut.

Then, unfortunately, you start talking about finite resources. Your whole moral argument went down the toilet. We don't treat humans like animals--locking them in prisons without tvs or books or gyms simply because we've bought into the idea of finite resources. The US has too many people in prison in large part because of a failed war on drugs and sentencing laws. We need to go back and review and fix the laws and end the drug war.

As to the finite resources---the wealthy are getting wealthier by the minute, while the working classes of the western world are getting poorer. Wages in America have stagnated, the dollar has lost a quarter of its value--and the nation has been purposefully de-industrialized at great profit to Capital. When you parrot such idiocy as "finite resources" you are undermining the working people, when you suggest that we lock people up in dark cells with no tvs to save money, you are undermining morality.

Yes, prisons should exist to reform the criminally minded, and those who broke the law. The laws should be reformed such that they illuminate the bad behavior and not create criminals who've done nothing wrong but break unjust, ill considered laws. Prisons should not be hell holes just because people have decided that we need to save money. That a person is locked in a cage and may stay locked up for much if not the rest of his life should be considered sufficient punishment, and is, by thinking people who value liberty.

You have undermined your own moral argument in your first paragraph by stating that you are in favour of the death penalty. Strange for you then, to go on to talk about how you value liberty, and to lecture me on morality.

The EU laws on human rights are a laudable beacon of liberty for the world, and as I stated, every effort should be made to adhere to those laws- the laws which PROHIBIT the draconian execution which you are in favour of.

To flat-out deny the concept of finite resources is to deny reality. Every government must make utilitarian decisions and allocate spending in accordance with their budget. What is your problem with this logic?

All spending must be justified- above all, to the taxpayer. Given my premise that Breivik should never be released back into society, how can you justify spending on excessive luxuries -above what is required to meet his human rights- for prisoners like Breivik, when this money could be better spent on services for the rest of the population?

Your rambling about social inequality is irrelevant. If you're bitter about money being squandered, or that you think the wealthy should be made to contribute more to the rest of society, that's another much greater issue. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the simple concept of resource management, given that a figure 'x' is your resources.

Your attack on me, frankly, is absurd. I am not advocating that 'prisons should be hell-holes to save money', as I stated that all laws concerning human rights should be taken with the utmost seriousness. But of course we have to prioritise spending. That's just common sense. What is your point here? What is your stance- that we should turn every prison into a 5-star hotel just so that we can say with smug self-righteousness that money is not a consideration for us when it comes to law and justice? Or have I exaggerated? A 2-star hotel then? Or what? Tell me what your ideal level of spending is for prisoners like Breivik?

To clarify my position: Take existing laws on human rights as guidance. Spend enough to satisfy such laws, but no more.

What's your benchmark?

For most offenders, the goal is to get them back into society in the end. In the prison depicted here, this is for those criminals, for a limited period of time before being set free, staying there as a transition of sorts.

Then there are those offenders where prisons serve mainly to keep the public safe. This is where our terrorist fits in. He will go to a max security prison (which I'm sure by US standards is still considered nice). He may be limited in his interactions with others, partly due to his own safety, partly due the fact that noone wants him to use this place as a breeding ground for his insane theories. With our "Forvaring" laws, he will most likely spend the rest of his life in prison.

Some people want revenge, either by execution or the worst possible conditions in jail (I'm not saying *you*, but in general on the internet, there are some people that seem to). In Norway, it is generally not the feeling that the law should be used for these purposes, and it is clear that the vast majority of the population of Norway is against the death penalty.

A pleasure to read. Thank you for writing.

A good comment!

Congrats, after many years of very casual readings of posts, I finally signed up to respond to this silly post.

First, the proper use of TV electricity is not the issue. If you think it is then all hope is gone. I suppose many would argue that if you think that each and every convicted criminal has the right to his (or her) own very personal TV paid by others, then again, all hope is gone. Maybe each of my kids, by rights, should have their own TV paid by me.

Murder rates? I understand America's is high. You think other countries consider our murder rate that of WARTIME causualties. What wars are these exactly?

Ok, right. You know the prison rates and population in China. Ok right. I suppose this
Communist government lead by a dictator send to you the 'correct' numbers on their prison population. After all, we all know of desire of history's dictators to publish these statistics in a correct manner. Ok, right.

I have to go now. But I will be glad to challenge the validity of the rest of this post later.

Sweetheart, you sounded so ignorant I just couldn't help but comment. The U.S. is set up like Europe. The reason we don't go across to other countries like other countries is because we have such a huge country that we don't need passports. There is also that pesky issue of the Atlantic and Pacific oceans? If we needed passports to go from state to state then everyone would have a passport and be using them constantly. Think about it.

There is also the issue that yes, sorry to say it, but yes, flat screen tvs are luxuries. Luxuries are things people DON'T NEED. Does most of the world have flat screen tvs?I don't and I"m a teacher that makes 45k. I have a 19 inch tv that is cracked so yes not only a Flat Screen tv is a luxury, A TV IN PRISON IS A LUXURY.

I'm back. (Lucky you).

There are stories of prisoners 'disappearing' at times in China. I wonder where they go? Every see videos of Chinese people beating and kicking thieves? I have. Do you suppose that effects behavior of some people? Knowing that other 'citizens' might beat the crap out of them if they steal?

The point is that China is a ridiculous country to use as an example.

I see that you don't like the way that America 'distributes' wealth. This is way too long to go over but there can be a fine line between going to someones house and robbing his safe and/or voting for someone who will make a law to take it from that person in taxes.

Prisons in America are quite cushy compared to a dungeon. Ever been in a dungeon?

Liberty is your test? Not everyone considers liberty worth dying for you know. Ever see the Ted Bundy videos in prison. He was having a grand old time according to him. Well, there is so much more I could say but you probably won't see it anyway.

I am guessing that if you want to see a depraved person. The mirror will be a good place to start. I doubt you are one of the enlightened ones. No offense.

NIKILISIOS;
Please remember this is NORWAY, and we have quite a different economy. Flatscreens are NOT concidered luxury. And statistic talk for themselves; our systems have worked so far.
We won't treat anyone as an animal, no mater what they have done, but thay may stay in prison for the rst of their lives if they are concidered dangerous to society.

He will most likely be sentenced to 21 years "forvaring" which means after the 21 years, they will determine if he is still a danger to society or not. If they don't feel it is safe to release him, he stays for another 5 years, until another hearing, and so on. In theory he may stay locked up until he dies from old age.

THANK YOU. My point exactly.

If someone owns a gun THEY WILL KILL. THAT IS WHY AMERICA IS SUCH A HORRIBLE PLACE. GET IT RIGHT AMERICA. GEEZ. Americans need to stop pigging out on gun ownership. It makes them big fat piggies.

I must just assume you have not lived in the US for any great deal of time, since your comment is so ignorant as it leaves no, other explanation.

Very difficult to compare societies and the appropriate prison system - since cultural and different laws provide an unclear picture. As much as the US posters should get off their high horse about assuming a US prison system is superior, I would suggest our foreign commentors do the same.

Marty59 said it right - there is absolutely nothing of redeeming value in the US [prison] system.

And that is the best response to Americans oafishly guffawing at foreign prison systems which, the evidence would seem to suggest, are quite simply beyond their comprehension.

I agree, the U.S. system needs serious changes. BUT this is not it. THERE MUST BE JUSTICE.

What is this "justice" then? Do you really want an eye for an eye?
Justice does NOT mean you have to get revenge.

I am sorry to tell you that we do not have death penalty here in Norway, nor do we want it. Death would be the easy way out anyway.

hehe

At this prison they are offered education on college level. They are testing out a program in collaboration whith Halden College- college course in business & administration. If the program succeed they may extend the program to barchelor level. So ur right- it is a college dorm- do a crime and get free education, no house rent- you get paid and no loan.

Think about it.

Regards
Tor, Oslo Norway

As I recall from college though, people rarely studied, and mostly partied... These guys may actually be better students, in the end....

Besides, there is nothing wrong with rehabilitation, and college is free in Norway anyway.

Keep in mind that for those that end up in this prison (arguably the nicest in Norway), they still can't go to the store, visit friends etc. They are locked up, their freedom is taken away from them (and rightly so of course).

Ila prison is where ABB is in custody.

http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2008/07/25/541708.html

Was in Oslo couple of weeks ago. I just want to say, sorry for all this pain. You could see the pain in many faces. I happen to run across some of the ceremonies at the local church where flowers and teddy bears were all over the place. God Bless All.

Tor, I went to college in Norway, and paid about $120 (onehundredtwenty) dollars in tuition. The only reason I needed loans was to pay for a place to stay and food, since I chose to go to college away from my parents. I suppose you can say these guys get free room and board, but I think I'd rather have my freedom.

Tor, I don't think you really understand what it's like to be deprived of your freedom.
They're still in prison, they're not free. They're captive prisoners.

Sincelerely, Håkon.

I may sound a bit harsh in my comment, but I would like to thank all Americans (and all the other countries) for their love and support. It is greatly appreciated!

You sound very smart, unlike many of my American compatriots and compadres. I'm sure the conditions in the outside are far better than the ones inside. Therefore people still don't wanna go to prison.

Probably wouldn't wanna be released neither. Who would?

I doubt it. Do you have people constantly watching over you? These inmates have guards walking into the toilet with them. They actually want to stay at other prisons.

That still doesn't mean they are living good!

so make it a point in your life to move there, to the prison. then you can live more comfortably.

i, also, live a rather money-less life for the time being. though, i value being able to walk about freely, go where i want, etc. - so i am not complaining - at all.

this prison and any prison like this is something that has long been needed in this world. thank the divine powers for this. thank, so deeply.

They are living on a really good level of life standard so I do not believe that he personally would want to be free! Why for?

MatyCor-Website

Well for one IT does not work... which is the entire point. For two, it seems you are showing a total lack of respect.

@GFX
How does it not work?

By all measurable standards the Norwegian system does work better than the appalling anglo american one.

1 exception does not change this and as many commentators have pointed out it is unlikely he'll ever get out.

I misread the "This article is ridiculous." post... and got confused - turned around actually. If you read my other post titled, "IMO: PRISON" you will see how I feel about the terrible brutality of a lot of prisons and American prisons.

To make the record clear, I misread this post thinking MGALLARDO115 was saying that the American prisons work while the Norwegian do not - I got completely turned around. Actually, I am in full agreement with changing the prisons to make them more humane. So I agree with the authors post - IT DOES WORK.

Sorry for the confusion.

AND OTHER PRISON SYSTEMS SHOULD LEARN FROM THIS EXAMPLE - AND HOPEFULLY WILL LEARN.

just wanted to clarify, because, i got completely confused at MGALLARDO115's post.

sorry about that MGALLARDO115.

+1

Well, I think a lot of people find it offensive that this article mocks a system that works for Norway. It is pretty blatant about it...

It is true that Norway and the US is different (and maybe in some other areas, the US should start by figuring out WHY they have so much poverty and inequality). Having a critical article like this seems very misplaced though...

Besides, Norway is multi-cultural too, maybe not as much as the US on a whole, but there are certainly states in the US that are quite comparable.

Norway is NOT multicultural. It is one of the most homogenous nations in Europe and the world. True, it has some migrants but most are not integrated and you can't compare it to the U.S. I agree that the prison system in the U.S. and the incarceration rate is problematic but there is relatively low wealth inequality and a large middle class, compared to other nations. For example, I was in Rio de Janeiro recently and you should see the inequality that exists there. Crime and murder are everywhere, even in touristy Copacabana and Ipanema. 99.99% of Americans live better than your average Carioca. The U.S. has a higher standard of living than most of Europe and most of the rest of the world. Again, if you want wealth inequality, look at the Middle East, South America and India to start. People are stepping over themselves to get into the U.S., which provides a much more generous immigration policy than does Norway, prison conditions aside. Norway is isolated as well. I wonder how it would look if it were joined at the hip by Mexico and flooded with millions of its poor.

Rapists and Murderers do not end up in this prison... This is for white-collar or other less serious crimes. It is also usually used only as the final part of the prison-term, to get the inmates adjusted to society. In Norway the general feeling is that one should try to rehabilitate criminals (and it works if you look at the statistics)

Like others have said, this article is VERY misleading!!! Booo on them!

I would rather a victims feelings were hurt than the re offending rate be multiple times higher and there being far more victims.

Rehabilitation works.

Several years back, I visited one of the biggest prisons in northern California. Was I in for a surprise. They have nice looking quarters, tv, classes, they have so much emphasis on healthy eating! They have a gym and fitness classes. I am sure if I had checked they probably even have P90X and other programs available. For a moment I thought to myself, how do I get in! They do not pay taxes, rent, utilities! I think that was just way too much, and we are in a budget crisis!

I agree with the disgust you have for athletes and celebrity wealth but what would your wealth limit be? By the way, there is no limit to the wealth you can accumulate in Norway either.

That is the key question and I do not really know the answer. Though, I do know anything BUT trying to push a more communistic or equal economy - they simply do not work (equality would be great among humans, but it is something that has never been and, to my mind, can never be) - as has been shown throughout history. I imagine let people be rich but not near that rich, so to say. Let the wages of wealth vary somehow, etc. be diverse - just not that rich.

Somehow enough to let people live more beneficial, comfortable, healthy, etc. lives... than having to live in the worst environments with no assets (with basically nothing). If America continues to support the extreme amounts of money people are making then eventually the economy will wholly collapse for good. Though as for numbers I do not now - I leave that to the people who work with those types of numbers.

Well what you advocate is nice but not possible, in my opinion, in a country as large and diverse as America. I don't agree with one thing you say in particular. I say America SHOULD support wealth but should not support poverty. A rising tide lifts all boats. Maybe one thing the U.S. should do, like Norway, is drill for more of its own oil.

That is exactly what I am saying - a utopia does not work.

You misread what I was saying.

The problem is that your American newspapers are flat out lying. Or they haven't done enough research.

No, I don't think Breivik can be rehabilitated. He will not be in Halden prison, but in Ila prison. There is a big difference. He will also be isolated for a very, very long time. I would be VERY, VERY surprised if they ever let him out. It's not going to happen.

Wow.

A great place for this scumbag to rot away. Or maybe someone will serve true justice...

- Zygor

LANY;
only 15-20% go back to prison in Norway after the rehabilitation.

I couldn't agree more. The key to these prisons are the contracts and I am sure there is a connection between money and the amenities that we are seeing here. The prison industrial complex probably started to make televisions to profit off the system, and rock climbing walls. While I have no time for killers and think they should be locked up, it would be nice if the rehabilitation approach was stressed opposed to the lock them up and throw away they key. This article broaches some of the resources that have been shown, but I am sure this is not the norm for most places. I was speaking to my kirkland chiropractor following a transfer from my chiropractor in seattle to get his point of view. That's when I had my mind changed regarding the importance of health and exercise for inmates, as it can have an extremely positive influence on behavior. In that respect you could possibly justify some of the money spent to help rehabilitate these inmates.

On the other hand, the 25k+ it costs each year in tax payer dollars to house these guys would be enough to send them to any college in the country. While I understand why we don't copy countries that have done things better(there is less money in it) I don't understand why we let them get away with this as citizens.

Agreed.

Yes

I wish more people would read your comment. It is the only here worth reading. This article is a joke. I'm disappointed in this website about it. All my best to you and yours.

from Boston, MA, US

We're not making fun of you. We LOVE you Norway. Your prison system is OUR hope. Things have gotten outright crummy here in the United States in the last 10 years (the last two of them being especially rotten) You're our hope now, our only hope. I'm buying my first ski mask tomorrow and sharpening the Buck knife . Norway someWAY some DAY!

Ref: http://www.tv2.no/nyheter/innenriks/dette-er-jenta-bak-utsagnet-som-roerte-en-hel-verden-3547552.html

This is the victim. Please use the google translate, to view it in your own language.

He went from accepting a host to abject accompaniment to sucking off tax payer dime with EASE. I'll bet there's mostly changeable bastille guards too and I'll bet a lot of of them are HOT! I'll bet he'll get laid alot just on accepting them to feel apologetic for him and stuff. Free Music and cartoon classes, OH man, I'm traveling to save my money up for a one way admission to Norway and do some austere crimes there. Might accept to attending into the amount and accomplish abiding that the approaching abomination will account a admission to one of their prisons and not deported. Traveling to bastille in Norway would be bigger than advancing aback to the United States here

Thanks

Come on, no matter which way you cut it, these prisons are way better than a boarding school in Africa, much less a prison. You really want to tell me these criminals feel bad for what they did? I mean, this is a great life that I'm sure even in Norway many people cannot afford, so if I were a Norwegian (I'll make a plan to be one soon) I'd go rob a bank. If i succeed, I get to live the life!! If i fail, just feel bad about it and get to live the life. either way committing a crime would give me an upgrade in my living status.

I mean WTH!!!! How do the people they committed feel about these "make you feel good about committing a crime centers"? whatever happened to good old punishment to deter criminals, Pavlov called it negative re-enforcement I believe or have you guys discovered something he didn't?

UPENDO:
I basically agree but "it is not like we are dullying with criminals" is not among the agreeable points.

Though I haven't spent 1 day in prison (actually never been into one) and therefore don't know what effect being locked inside ("luxury" or not) for a period of time may do to you, I do however think sentences handed out in Norway generally are "soft".

The "good news": After prison, most ex-convicts manage to get out of crime (or they have become more clever and don't get caught for it"). This is both cost-effective and safer for society.

The "bad" news: While not treating prisoners like animals and prepare them for life after prison is very good, (too) low sentences is not.
Not that long or harsh sentences will prevent anyone from doing crime (USA is a supreme example of that), but there are other aspects as protecting society in general and respect for victims.
In Norway, the wrongdoer has a lot of rights (could be fair enough), but victims on the other hands are often forgotten.

By law (§62) the criminal will also get a discount if he have committed several crimes. E.g. if stealing cars, the offender can not be sentenced to prison for a period longer than would could be handed out for stealing 2 cars. Meaning stealing 2 cars or 100 cars would give you the same sentence!!!
You may also get a discount (again by law (§ 59)) if you ADMIT your crime ...

Real life example:
Killer executed his victim and should have got 21 years (max). Admitted his crime and therefore got 5 years discount, hence 16 years. As in Norway 1 "prison year" usually means 8 months, this guy will walk free after little more than 10 years. And before that usually be allowed paroles after 5-6 years. In cases like this, the priority should not be the needs of the wrongdoer, but instead (obviously) the respect for the victim and family.

In Breiviks case, the only just sentence would be to give him 21 years x and that would be around 1600 years. Today, Norwegian law does not allow this, but hopefully this might change.

By all means, treat him humanly, but he must NEVER walk among us again and should be left locked away for life. And forgotten.

Viking: thank you for your comment. I understand you have doubts about our cirminal system. However, rest assured that he will not be released after approx 16 years. The chances of him ever setting foot among us are slim to non-existent.

It is important that even though we have a justice system that is different from yours, it still does not mean that we are naive.

A tad more research from the journalist side who wrote this piece would have corrected a lot of misunderstandings that I am witnessing amongst these comments.

Just an african: I am finding it difficult to respond to your post, as it is written with so many emotions and prejudices.

I understand that compared to living standards elsewhere these conditions appear luxurious. This is however not something that we can take into consideration. The main philosophy behind incarceration and punishment is different than others, obviously. And I think it is important that we do not judge or pretend that there is only one "right" way for a criminal system, or moreover, the standards of a prison. This all depends on the resources, economy and philosophy in any given country's system.

I must also warn you against thinking that for people in Norway, being sent to prison is an upgrade of their life. For some it may be an upgrade in living standards, as they now have a bed to sleep in and regular meals. It is, no matter how you look at it, a removal of many of their freedoms. This should not be underestimated.