The same Joseph Farah who is a birther and shares a byline with Rush Limbaugh... yeah, Im sure his writings arent biased.

Concerning your specific point about there not being such a thing as a Palestinian, you may want to read Norman Finklestein's criticism of "From Time Immemorial".

and he is not the only one: see Yehoshua Porath's criticism in the New York review of Books (1986)

In the house journal of the American Council on Foreign Relations, Foreign Affairs, William B. Quandt, the Edward Stettinius professor of Politics at the University of Virginia and authority on Middle Eastern politics,[19] later described Finkelstein's critique of From Time Immemorial as a "landmark essay" and a "victory to his credit", in its "demonstration" of the "shoddy scholarship" of Peters's book

According to your logic, I might as well criticize Israel using the Protocols of the Elders of Zion

Finkelestein is a joke in academia. He doesn't hold a tenured position and has been laughed out of most institutions. He works for his audience, preaching to the choir.

You might not like joseph Farrrah, but what about King Abdullah, King Hussein, and PLO members. There are quotes from them above. Or, are you so much smarter about the middle east than the king of jordan?

?“Palestine and Transjordan are one.” King Abdullah, Arab League meeting in Cairo, 12 April 1948
?“We are the government of Palestine, the army of Palestine and the refugees of Palestine.” Prime Minister of Jordan, Hazza’ al-Majali, 23 August 1959
?“Palestine is Jordan and Jordan is Palestine; there is one people and one land, with one history and one and the same fate.” Prince Hassan, brother of King Hussein, addressing the Jordanian National Assembly, 2 February 1970
?“Jordan is not just another Arab state with regard to Palestine, but rather, Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan in terms of territory, national identity, sufferings, hopes and aspirations.” Jordanian Minister of Agriculture, 24 September 1980
?“The truth is that Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan.” King Hussein 1981

Must be a slow day at the Hasbara institute there in your capital Tel Aviv. You hasbarists are working overtime to convince whom that there was no Palestine. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Your willful ignorance on this subject is astounding. You keep repeating completely debunked myths that smart Zionists don’t dare repeat any more. Palestine was one of the most developed and cultivated countries in the Middle East when Zionists decided to “return” and started spinning their mythology about “a land without people for a people without land”.

Of course even if Palestine was a “backwater”, that doesn’t give the Zionists the “right to return” and colonize the land and ethnically cleanse the native Palestinians. This “civilizing mission” is one of the most outrageous and evil colonial inventions.

Get some education; here is a link to images from Palestine in the late 1880s and early 19002. Yes, it may not have been a spanking mirror image of the “civilized” west at that time, but it’s no backwater. The link uses photos from the famous Matson Collection with running text from the writings of the Zionist writer Ahad Ha’Am to highlight the contrast between propaganda and reality:

http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2009/01/a-land-without-a-people.html

For more pictures and explanation, check out this book by Walid Khalidi:

Before Their Diaspora: A Photographic History of the Palestinians 1876-1948

http://www.palestine-studies.org/books.aspx?href=subcategory&id=8

Finally, perhaps you should be reading more about this topic, though I don’t expect you to change your mind:

http://inventionofthejewishpeople.com/reviews/

As Walt points out in his book (Israel Lobby) King Abdullah invaded Eastern palestine to conquer territory for his kingdom at the expense of the Palestinian Arabs--rather than to destroy the Jewish state. Indeed, the Arab legion stuck meticulously tthroughout the war to its non-agressive stance vis-a-vis the Yishuv and the Jewish state's territory." (84)
Admitting Palestinians were different would provide them a basis for self determination and undercut whatever moral underpinnings existed for his invasion.

Secondly, since when do the words of Arabs rulers dictate reality. They are self serving autocrats.

According to DNA studies: "Genetic analysis suggests that Palestinians are "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times," http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people

Your hasbara bs grows old.

just be honest--

Israeli: "Hi, My God (who may or may not actually exist) gave me your ancestral land 1000 years ago. It hasnt been a big deal, until lately,w hen a bunch or crazy white people tried to exterminate us. Yeah, its not your fault, but get the F**k out!

Palestinian" as an Arab ethnic group is a modern political creation which has no basis in fact - and had never had any international or academic credibility before 1967.
Before the crushing 1967 "Six-Day" defeat of the Arab countries by Israel, the "Palestine-for-the-Palestinians" cause was met by "complacency, and... crass ignorance." The prominent Arab Palestinian activist, writer, and innovator Musa Alami tried virtually singlehandedly to interest the Arab world in this propaganda program in 1948.

In Iraq he was told by the Prime Minister that all that was needed was "a fewbrooms" to drive the Jews into the sea; by confidants of Ibn Saud in Cairo, that "once we get the green light from the British we can easily throw out the Jews."[8]
But the reality was much more complicated than the Iraqi Prime Minister had suggested. The Arabs had initiated hostilities in Palestine[9] upon the November 1947 United Nations' partition of Palestine into a Jewish and an Arab state," [10] employing outside forces and arms from Arab states as distant as Iraq[11] to prevent the creation of the Jewish state, "a series of killings and counterkillings that would continue for decades."[12] [See Chapters 9ff.] Thousands of Arabs, including the more affluent, left for nearby Arab states before Jewish statehood." When Israel's independence was declared in 1948, the Arab forces combined to crush it.[14]

walt is a joke. he is no anthropologist, but he is making conclusions only anthropologists can make.

The Jews are descendants of the Canaanites. They assimilated them and absorbed them. This is why Jews today are closely related to Lebanese Christians. The Former are Canaanite and the latter claim phonencian descent. The phonecians and canaaites are related.

The Palestinians are simply Arabs who came from arabia. They are also a mixture of other invaders brought in by successive conquoring armies. This includes a large number of Balkan muslims brought in by the Egypt in the 1800s, sudanese slaves, egyptians, and syrians. In fact, even the Palestinian national hero, Izz E din al Qassam (whose name is given to the Qassam rocket and hamas's qassam brigades) was born and raised in SYRIA. only later in his life did he migrate to palestine with thousands of other arabs in the 1900s.

It is interesting to note, many pro-Palestinian pundits are very quick to point out the Israeli version of "Hasbara", (in Hebrew, it means "to explain", or "describe"). They twist it around to suggest as propaganda (In Hebrew translates as "Ta-a-Moola").

It just comes to show the utter ignorance of these pundits, and their shallow understanding the whole Arab-Israeli conflict.

As for the so-called "Palestinians", the author is asking a valid and poignant question. Who are they?. How can you take a former Egyptian & Jordanian tribes, hobble them together, and walla we have a new baby called "Palestinians".

In reality, this conflict is not about a sliver of land. It is rather, about two groups of people, who's leaders had faced with historic choice to make 63 years ago.
One group had made the right choice, and went on to build its life, and prosper - These are the Israelis.
The other group, had made the wrong choice and refuses to accept responsibilities to its own action, and blame others for it own failures - these are the Pals

Ironic, Arvay, that the article you provided a link for had an Arab Israeli as the Israeli meeting with the (former) Neo-Nazis, and he was critisized in Israel for meeting them them.

who preaches neo-nazi ideology.

"Palestine was one of the most developed and cultivated countries in the Middle East when Zionists decided to “return” and started spinning their mythology about 'a land without people for a people without land'."

If "Palestine" was developed & cultivated, perhaps you be able to explain how her thriving & multitudinous, Arab inhabitants managed to escape the scourge of malaria: which made life impossible in that land for all other persons.

Perhaps the local ethnic Arabs had some natural immunity that nobody else has -- or knows about?

Myths indeed.

Did you even bother to read the article? Or did you read it and are just not capable of understanding anything that contradicts your ingrained dialectic and prejudices? Palestine is and has never been a country. They have been a propaganda weapon used to harass the Jews since the Arab military is certainly not up to the task. They rejected formal statehood in 1948. You do not get "do overs" which is basically what they are asking for. At the time if they had possessed even 2 brain cells to rub together they would have accepted the proposed UN deal, taken time to organize themselves, and then they could have embarked on their Jew killing spree from a secure base of operations. Instead they got humiliated and that humiliation has been the sole driving force of their hostility over the past 60+ years. This has never been about statehood or land it has been about the Arabs trying to erase their humiliation and shame of being defeated by an inferior race. The "Palestinians" are nothing more than cannon fodder and human mortars used by their puppeteers living in extravagant villas in Lebanon and Syria. Arafat died a billionaire by skimming money from international donor and the current leaders are during the same using the both the international donations and the revenues generated by the smuggling tunnels. This whole conflict is making those running the show filthy rich why would they want to really end this dispute? The Arabs also know that there is absolutely no possibility of defeating Israel militarily, ever time they have tried they have gotten their assess kicked. Their only option has been to use human sacrifices to prove to the world that they are victims deserving of justice, a justice which no Arab country has ever provided to anyone let alone Israel. On a side note I am neither a Jew,Zionist, or warmonger.

Palestine never existed as an independent state. Palestine was a mandate territory controlled by the British. Herzel wanted to be burried in this mandate.

In fact, during this mandate, Jews, NOT arabs were considered Palestinians. Many Palestinians considered themselves southern syrians. The British even had a "Palestine Briagade" in their army in WWII, which was comprised soley of JEWS!

And if you think Jews (along with everyone else who knows history) deny that a palestinian state ever existed, here are ARAB MUSLIMS denying that a Palestinian state ever existed:

During the various deliberations, Arab officials, spokesmen and writers expressed their views on "Palestine".

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. . . . Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it."

Local Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not"

Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian to Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, 1946

"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."

Ahmed Shukairy, United Nations Security Council, 1956

http://www.bdsmovement.net/

Remember the 729 barcode means it's from israel. Into the dumpster!

Birds of a feather

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,777175,00.html

***http://www.bdsmovement.net/****

Remember the 729 barcode means it's from israel. Into the dumpster!

Birds of a feather

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,777175,00.html

***http://www.bdsmovement.net/****

Remember the 729 barcode means it's from israel. Into the dumpster!

Birds of a feather

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,777175,00.htm

You say 'Palestine was one of the most developed and cultivated countries in the Middle East when Zionists decided to “return” and started spinning their mythology about “a land without people for a people without land”.'

Before 1921, there wasn't even a political entity known as 'Palestine', never mind a country, and their hadn't been since the Crusaders invaded what was a subdistrict of Umayyid province of Syria. There was never a 'Palestinian' government, a distinct 'Palestinian' dialect of Arabic or a 'Palestinian' culture. As late as 1919, a group of Arab notables known as the Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations, at their first session, issued a declaration calling for integration into 'Greater Syria'. Indeed later that year a delegation from this group came before the King-Crane commission to make their case for becoming a part of Syria. The commission's report to President Wilson made the same recommendation(from "Jerusalem in the 20th Century" by Martin Gilbert pp 78-79).

Jerusalem itself has had a Jewish plurality since the middle of the 19th century and an outright Jewish majority since the end of that century. There have been thriving Jewish communitues in Safed and Tiberias since the 14th century. The city of Hebron held a sizeable Jewish population for over 2,000 years until it was massacred during the Arab riots of 1929. The town of Peki'in in Israel can trace its continual Jewish habitation back to the time of King David.

Was their a sizeable Jewish migration after 1881 and again between the wars? Most certainly. And there was also a sizeable Arab migration into mandatory Palestine as well. All you need to do is look at British census figures to see that the Arab population in the mandate grew 150% faster between 1921 and 1941 than the next fastest growing Arab population (Egypt) in that period.

As to the region's development and civilization, Jerusalem didn't have indoor plumbing until the arrival of the British after WWI.

No one disputes the fact that Arabs lived in the old mandatory areas. But to say that the Arab right to this land is superior to that of the Jews (or vice versa) is racist and inimical to any chance of peace in the region.

Recent events in the ME brings to focus the old saying "Might is Right" as being ivalid. As long as the Palestinians struggle for freedom, eventually they will win. Europeans have largely walked away from protecting Israel poltically and to some degree militarily. US cannot sustain it's posture of blind support to Israel without loosing it's legitimacy as a leader of the world. The turn is ahead of us whether we want to go through it or off of it. While Israel will always win the military struggle, in the end it is the political win that Palestinians will earn for their struggle. That is what will decide the end game here.

Joseph Farah is hardly a recognized "expert", at least to anyone with a mainstream academic background. Among those legitimate experts are Avi Shlaim and Benny Morris, who'd be among the first to tell you that Abdullah I was working hand-in-glove with Golda Meir and others to secure advantage for himself, regardless of its impact on the Arabs of mandate Palestine. And Hussein was hardly innocent of such shenanigans himself. Your "facts" are cherry-picked, to say the least.

And note that Mr. Rosen is a long-time associate of AIPAC (golly, no agenda there!) and now is employed by the Middle East Forum, the personal propaganda tool of the Islamophobe Daniel Pipes - the same "academic expert" who so nobly brought us the Campus Watch black-list after 9-11.

That Foreign Policy publishes comments from across the spectrum is laudable. But to publish hasbara like Rosen's as expertise is beneath them.

LOLZ. You are a joke too, clearly with an agenda. What makes you more authoritative. Abdullah was working hand in hand with Golda Meir? Are you kidding? Abdullah did not like Meir and wanted a man to negotiate with him, rather than her. He also attacked Israel in 1948 despite her pleas for him to remain out of the conflict. You are a moron.

While you might have issues with Joseph Farrah (who is still more knowledgeable than you), here are quotes from Arab leaders.

Jordanian Prime Minister Hazza al-Majali:

"We are the army of Palestine.... the overwhelming majority of the Palestine Arabs ... are living in Jordan."

Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian
identity serves only tactical purposes. The
founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool
in the continuing battle against Israel ...
-- Zuheir Muhsin, late Military Department head
of the PLO and member of its Executive
Council, Dutch daily Trouw, March 1977

In 1974, Syria's President Assad, although a PLO supporter, incorporated both claims in a remarkable definition:

... Palestine is not only a part of our Arab homeland, but a basic part of southern Syria."

“Palestine and Transjordan are one.” King Abdullah, Arab League meeting in Cairo, 12 April 1948

“We are the government of Palestine, the army of Palestine and the refugees of Palestine.” Prime Minister of Jordan, Hazza’ al-Majali, 23 August 1959

“Palestine is Jordan and Jordan is Palestine; there is one people and one land, with one history and one and the same fate.” Prince Hassan, brother of King Hussein, addressing the Jordanian National Assembly, 2 February 1970

“Jordan is not just another Arab state with regard to Palestine, but rather, Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan in terms of territory, national identity, sufferings, hopes and aspirations.” Jordanian Minister of Agriculture, 24 September 1980

“The truth is that Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan.” King Hussein 1981

who has posted links to neo-nazi websites. He now calls for Israel's desruction. He is insane.

You're the fake poster, just as the Neoleftt user - who's probably the same person as you - is a fake version of the fine pro-Palestine user Neoleft. I have no idea what you Zionists intend by making it clear to everyone that you're such freaks, and a fraud.

When the State of Israel was reborn in 1948 c.e., the "Palestinians" did not exist yet, the Arabs had still not discovered that "ancient" people. They were too busy with the purpose of annihilating the new Sovereign State and did not intend to create any Palestinian entity, but only to distribute the land among the already existing Arab states. They were defeated. They attempted again to destroy Israel in 1967, and were humiliated in only six days, in which they lost the lands that they had usurped in 1948. Israel is not like one of those countries that just export handmade jewelry. In those 19 years of Arab occupation of Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip, neither Jordan nor Egypt suggested to create a "Palestinian" state, since the still non-existing Palestinians would have never claimed their alleged right to have their own state

Ask the Kurds, Jews, Assyrians, Copts, Berbers about Arab colonization of the middle east. I am sure they would have a lot to say. Like, telling the Arabs to go back to Arabia and let them live in peace.

this guy posts sites connected to neo-nazis.

so who should the Israelis negotiate with? Abbas who holds onto power through illegitimate means, has little popular support, and barely controls some areas of the West Bank? Or, Hamas, which refuses to recognize Israel and only controls Gaza?

Maybe Israel should negotiate with a flying spagetti monster? Surely he controls this fiction country of Palestine. At least, more so than Hamas or Fatah at the moment.

"arvay" has connections to neo-nazis

"arvay" has connections to neo-nazis

http://www.bdsmovement.net/

Remember the 729 barcode means it's from israel. Into the dumpster!

Birds of a feather

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,777175,00.html

...If you list the long number of opportunities either rejected, or ignored, by the Arabs, over nearly 90 years, then things look rather interesting here.

I can think of some 25 such occasions, as follows:

a. After WW I, Feisal, later King of Iraq, proposed to the Jewish leader,
Weizman, a mutual partnership in developing a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Other Arabs lacked Feisal's foresight and generosity, and that great and historic option was lost.

b. In 1920, Arabs started the first major anti-Jewish riots in Palestine.

c. In 1929, Arabs massacred 69 Jews in Hebron.

d. From 1936 to 1939, the "Arab Revolt" was led by Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem. who was also involved in the earlier violence.

e. In 1941, the Mufti, and Iraqi politician Rashid Ali, led a pro-Nazi coup in Iraq, in which Saddam's uncle was also involved. It failed and both Husseini and Rashid fled to Berlin.

f. Hosted in Berlin by Hitler, the Mufti recruited Muslim SS Divisions in both Bosnia and Albania/Kosovo.

g. From 1945, both Egypt and Syria used Nazi
fugitives in security/military/scientific roles. And Husseini, wanted by Yugoslavia for his Nazi role, escaped from custody in France, and was a guest in Cairo.

h. In 1947, the Arabs, unlike the Jewish Agency, [a] boycotted the May 1947 11-strong UN Committee, which eventually voted 8-3 to recommend partition, and [b] then rejected the UN General Assembly resolution of 29 Nov 1947 for Palestine to be shared by both Arab and Jewish states, a vote backed by France, USSR, USA, Liberia, etc. Armed irregulars, both Palestinian and other Arabs, immediately commenced attacks on Jewish communities.

i. In May, 1948, the Arab States responded to the creation of the UN-mandated Jewish State of Israel with a 5-power attack by regular armies, from Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan, together with armed Palestinians, and armed Arab volunteers,
including Moslem Brotherhood elements. The Cairo-born and Cairo-educated engineering student, Arafat, at 19, fought as a Lt in the Egyptian Army on the Sinai front.

j. The Arabs called on the Arab Palestinians to evacuate Palestine, and so allow a "free-fire zone" for the 5 invading forces. This, together with the impact of fighting, and some Israeli attacks, such as at Deir Yassin village near Jerusalem, led to a major displacment of Palestinians, whose total numbers equalled the Jews who fled from the Arab world, mostly to Israel.

k. The Arab refugees have been left in camps by the Arab Governments since 1949, and were never integrated, unlike the similar number of Jewish refugees from the Arab world, who were fully integrated into Israeli society. Neither did the Arabs move to any peace treaty with Israel, to addreess this, or any other issue.

l. From 1950, the Arab strategy involved cross-border attacks by "Fedayeen" irregulars, aided by the Arab states.

m. On 20 July, 1951, King Abdullah of Jordan was assassinated in Jerusalem due to his flexible approach to dealing with Israel. The 10 conspirators were in touch with the Mufti, whose cousin was their leader.

n. In 1956, the Egyptian blockade of the international waterway, the Suez Canal, to Israeli shipping, led to the Israeli/Anglo/French military operation.

o. In 1967, the Egyptian blockade of the only Israeli outlet to the Red Sea, together with their massing of forces facing Israel in the Sinai, led to the " 6-day War".

p. The Arab Khartoum Summit in Autumn, 1967 decided on their notorious Triple Negative - No to Peace, No to Recognition, and No to
Negotiation.

q. From 1970, the Arabs engaged in a cross-border "War of Attrition" against Israel.

r. In Sept, 1970, the PLO armed threat to Jordan led to confrontation with the Jordanian Government and Army, and the expulsion of the PLO to Lebanon. From there, the PLO launched the terrorist massacre at the Munich 1972 Olympics, and, as did other Palestinian gangs, many aircraft hijackings.

s. From 1975 to 1990, Lebanon was devastated by an inter-Arab Civil War. including Palestinian elements.

t. In 1981, Muslim Brotherhood elements assassinated Egyptian President Anwar Sadat due to his moderate approach to Israel. The same element also murdered the Egyptian PM, Mahmoud Nokrashy, in 1948, and attempted to murder his successor as PM, Ibrahim Abdel Hadi, but instead killed
Supreme Couyrt Judge Moustashar Ahmad El-Kazendari. They twice attempted to kill President Gamal Abdel Nasser - in 1954 and 1965.

u. 1982, Palestinian Arab cross-border attacks against Israel led to the invasion of Lebanon.

v. In 1987 the Palestinian Arabs launched their First Intifada, which ran to 1993.

w. In Sept, 2000, the Palestinians launched their Second [ "Temple Mount" ] Intifada.

x. In December, 2000, Arafat rejected the proposals from President Bill Clinton [ actually originating with Israeli Labour PM Lt-Gen Ehud Barak] that the Palestinians have "custodianship" around the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, together with their capital in Arab East Jerusalem, and sovereignty over both the Christaian and Muslim districts in Jerusalem.

y. Since the Israeli evacuation of all of Gaza, and part of the West Bank, the Palestinian Authority has failed to enforce its writ, either over these additional terrritories, or over its existing areas, and still permits various private armed elements not only to retain, but to carry and use their weapons, as they wish.

as, your boyfriend will be very happy once you do.

The only thing Israel has not complied with is the demand for them to commit mass suicide.

About Israel's atrocities. They have killed there fair share of civilians. And personally, I believe the Zionists that control Israel are responsible for terror attacks such as 9/11, 7/7 and many more.

- Isabel De Los Rios

That is really a good question to ask in order to make analogy between these two states.

However I liked this article but I think it is biased (but I do not think that it is possible to write unbiased article on this topic).

Matthew Lorty

Countless genetic evidence PROVES European Jews are Semites and have their origin in the Levant. They are much more genetically similar to Palestinians and Lebanese and Syrians than to Hungarians, Germans, or Polish people. Also I don't see the point of arguing such trivial things, Israel EXISTS and now we are trying to establish Palestine in West Bank and Gaza, stop distracting from the main point and attempting to perpetuate this insane war.

how about you leave the USA and go back to Pakistan? Pakistan belongs to the Pakistanis. So, return to your home.

JEWISH REFUGEES FROM ARAB LANDS

What a distorted post on origins of Israelis.

About half of all Israelis are descendants of JEWISH REFUGEES FROM ARAB LANDS. Compare how Israel uplifted them with 63 years of cynical Arab manipulation of a similar number of Arab refugees. This is especially hypocritical as the Arab world started the wars that led to BOTH refugee issues.

Some 900 000 Jewish refugees from Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, ... came to Israel penniless, but looked forward and rebuilt their lives. They looked past 1400 years of dhimmi status - where they were subject to periodic pogroms, forced conversions and restricitons that make apartheid look like a joke. See Andrew Bostom's book "The Legacy of islamic Antisemitism".

There were always significant Jewish communities in Hebron, Safed, Jerusalem, ... . Hebron had an ancient Jewish community until the 1929 massacre, in which 67 were killed, and the rest driven out. East Jerusalem (now called "Arab East J'lm) had a Jewish majority from the 1840's whene the first census was taken till the 1920's, when most Jews were driven out.

As for the Palestinians: a great many (perhaps over 50%) are descended from Egyptian and other immigrants who came after the 1880's, to take advantage of Jewish redevelopment. Some, such as the fascist Mufti of Jerusalem, were of Bosnian descent.
They have no more claim to ancient settlement than the Jews who clung to the land through all the invasions and persecutions.

Just go back and read Mark Twain's account of his visit to the Holy Land in the 19th century. read the diaries of Christians like James Finn, then British consul, who chronicled the suffering of local Jews in places like Safed in the 19th century.

By what stretch of imagination can Egyptian like Arafat, or Jordanian, and other Arabs call themselves Palestinians and knowingly and FALSELY talk about return?

.

and you are a neo-nazi. We have seen your rants and genocidal intentions. Get a life.

Thank you, Aurangzb Khan, for noticing. I appreciate your reply.

"Palestine", or at least those claiming to represent them deserve damn near everything they have suffered. Israelis are not blameless in all things but at least they try to maintain some level of civility and respect for others. How many Jews would "Palestine", Syria, or Lebanon allow into their territories for hospital services? If the Arab armies had captured thousands of Israeli troops in the Sinai in 1973 how many of them would have lived? It's impossible today for any country, individual, or entity to eliminate Israel with violence because in a worst case scenario Cairo, Damascus, Mecca, Tehran, and any other major Arab city would end up being big radioactive holes for the next thousand years and they know it. Maybe the Arabs will, as usual, make some idiotic decision that crosses a line serious enough that the Israelis will finally take care of this problem for good and the world can move on and use the sad history of this conflict as a clear example on how religious extremism and intransigence can bring civilization to its knees. And don't count on boycotts or any other similar strategies to do it either. The majority of the civilized or even semi-civilized world only tolerate dealing with Arab countries for one reason and that is oil. And the US is currently pulling out the stops looking for a way to eliminate that reliance and once they share that technology with others I think it is safe to say Europe and Asia would not give a damn what happens in the middle east.

"the body of a Jewish person is of a totally different quality from the body of (members) of all nations of the world… A non-Jew’s entire reality is only vanity. The entire creation (all non-jews) exists only for the sake of the Jews."

Does it mean that to define oneself as a Jew is to define oneself as a racist?

I thought only Zionism is racism, but this says that the problem is rather deep rooted in the mind of the primitive thinking Jew.

Aurangzeb Khan
lalqila.wordpress.com

because Arabs and muslims have practically zero nobel prizes, while Jews have the lionshare.

And, Jews also have a high rate of literacy. The muslim world is half illiterate. Also, the Jews have indoor plumbing. So, unlike Egyptians and Pakistans (like yourself), they can use a toilet and don't have to wipe with their hands.

Muslims also blow themselves up...quite frequently. Not a very smart activity as well. They also riot about cartoons! Cartoons! LOLZ. Must be an inferiority complex producing such anger.

Here is a brilliant ruling from some leading muslim imams.

“A Saudi cleric issues a decree permitting unrelated women and men mingle so long as the guy drinks the woman’s breast milk.”

Did I read that right? I cut and pasted it directly from the article in the LA TIMES, and it still seems unsavory. The decree was announced last June by Sheik Abdel Mohsen Obeikan, “a scholar and a consultant at Saudi Arabia’s royal court” during America’s summer vacations so I suppose it’s not surprising that we missed it altogether. I’m also not sure that the American press feels all that comfortable debating cleric law. I mean, just because we don’t understand it, doesn’t make it…wrong…

Apparently, it wasn’t exactly Obeikan’s idea. In 2007, Egyptian scholar Izzat Attiyah “issued a 2007 Islamic ruling urging women to breastfeed their male colleagues to avoid illicit mixing between men and women at work. The act, the scholar argued, would establish a symbolic maternal bond between the men and women and would inhibit any sexual relations.”

“A Saudi cleric issues a decree permitting unrelated women and men mingle so long as the guy drinks the woman’s breast milk.”

In 2007, Egyptian scholar Izzat Attiyah “issued a 2007 Islamic ruling urging women to breastfeed their male colleagues to avoid illicit mixing between men and women at work. The act, the scholar argued, would establish a symbolic maternal bond between the men and women and would inhibit any sexual relations.”

you miss the point of the article. There is NO palestinian state to recognize. There are two statelets fighting for influence and control against eachother. one is in gaza controlled by hamas and one is in the west bank, nominally controlled by fatah. Now, how do you recognize a political entity where the parties comprising it don't even recognize each other's legitimacy.

***http://www.bdsmovement.net/****

Remember the 729 barcode means it's from israel. Into the dumpster!

Birds of a feather

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,777175,00.html

The recognition of the PLO by Israel stems from the Oslo accords, and by declaring independence the PA is actually canceling the agreement, which states that such an action cannot be done by these manners. So, therefore, according to the point you made, the PLO has no legitimacy to be recognized as the representative of the Palestinian people.

Apart from that, your argument is still a bit weird and I don't really get your point, as the PLO and Fatah are one and the same, and it demands recognition for areas which it does not control in any sort of way. You differentiate between the PA and the PLO, which is obviously not the same thing (one is an organization/party, the other is a political entity), but it really has no meaning to the points raised in the article, as the PLO, which basically governs the west bank, will ask for recognition of the PA as a state. So your argument is just irrelevant, to say the least.

"The recognition of the PLO by Israel stems from the Oslo accords,"...

Nope. The recognition came with an exchange of letters between Arafat and Rabin, and therefore that recognition:
a) preceded the Oslo Accords and
b) exists independently of the Oslo Accords

"and by declaring independence the PA is actually canceling the agreement, which states that such an action cannot be done by these manners."

No, that statement is chronologically-challenged, precisely because the PLO declared the state in 1988, and the Olso Accords date from 1995 i.e. the declaration of independence came *first*, and so you have to point to something in the Oslo Accords where the PLO agreed to rescind that declaration.

Good luck with THAT task....

"So, therefore, according to the point you made, the PLO has no legitimacy to be recognized as the representative of the Palestinian people."

In which case Israel has to declare that it is withdrawing the recognition that it gave in 1993. Which Israel has not done, and shows no sign of doing.

Which rather makes your argument "a moot point".

"I don't really get your point, as the PLO and Fatah are one and the same,"...

...and in that you are completely and utterly wrong and therefore there is not much point in continuing this conversation.

The Arabs DID NOT accept this resolution, and DID NOT acknowledge it. Since then, the Arabs waged wars, lost, claimed time and time again that there is no "Israel", lost waras again, and now they are in a totally different situation due to their own fault. And you still fail to address the problems raised by Mr. Rosen.
BTW, there was also an earlier resolution stating that the entire mandate area was to be the Jewish homeland. Later, and in contrast to international law, 75% of this area was given to the Arabs to create a state in - today you know this country as Jordan, where as many as 80-85% are what you would call Palestinians. Since then, the Arabs did not accept any resolution accepting the existence of Israel.
And no, Abbas will not be correct on both accounts, due to the fact that back in 1947 the Arabs (not called Palestinians of course, since they didn't really exist...) did not accept the resolution, and that an Arab state in those areas did not come to life. And one would also wonder how come no Palestinian state was constructed during 1948-1967, when Jordan and Egypt ruled those areas.

there are a few issues with this argument.

It's nice the the UNGA made the decision but in case you don't remember the Palestinians refused it. and Palestine said NO.

The problem with Abbas claiming to be the universally recognized rep. is that he isn't as clearly stated in the article. The state that has been declared is no longer the same state and no longer has the same borders.

And if you agree with this would you agree that the Palestinians should accept Israel as a Jewish state to help start the negotiations?

There is a slight problem with your claim: the partition of the Mandate into two successor states was never "offered to" the Arabs of Palestine, and therefore their rejection of that plan made no difference to the legitimacy of the UN General Assembly's decision in 1947.

After all, if a plan is imposed upon you then - by definition - your opinion of that plan is of no concern to the people who imposed it upon you.

Consider this:
There is a deceased estate, and at the reading of the will it is announced that the inheritence will be apportioned *thus* and *so* between two siblings.

One sibling leaps to his feet and shouts "No!!!! I demand it allllllll!" and starts throwing his fists around....

Q: Is he entitled to take the other dude's share?
A: No, because nobody is entitled to alter the terms of that will

Q: Does he lose his share because of his boorish demands?
A: No, because nobody is entitled to alter the terms of that will

The same is true here i.e. all the wars and all the terrorism and all the colonization and all the duplicity and all the conspiracies have not altered the original determination of the Mandatory and the UN that this mandate will be terminated by means of **TWO** successor states, one a jewish state *here* and the other an arab state *there*.

And if that is true (and, indeed, it is) then Rosen's argument is nonsensical i.e. the UNGA has **already** agreed that there should be a "arab state" *here*, and all that Abbas has to do is to convince the UNGA that the state that has already declared by the PLO is the embodyment of that "arab state".

He will get that recognition, precisely because he is perfectly correct in making that claim.

Sorry, but that's just the way it is....

"The problem with Abbas claiming to be the universally recognized rep. is that he isn't as clearly stated in the article."

Rosen is "clearly stating" something that he knows to be untrue.

Q: Who does Israel recognize as The One True Representative of the Palestinian People?
A: The PLO.

Q: Who does the USA recognize as being the sole representative of the Palestinian People?
A: The PLO.

Q: Who does the United Nations recognize as the only representative of the Palestinian People?
A: The PLO.

Q: Does it matter that Rosen points to others and says "well, what about them?"
A: USA: No. Israel: No. UN: No.

Q: Why not?
A: Those three have ALWAYS said that they will only recognize an agreement that is signed by the Chairman of the PLO.

Q: So who is the Chairman of the PLO?
A: Abbas.

Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

Which means that Haniyeh can jump up 'n' down as much as he likes, and so can Faayad, and their ants-in-their-pants antics mean nothing, precisely because nobody - but nobody - recognize that they have any authority to speak on behalf of anyone other than their own party faithful.

Well, nobody but Rosen but, then again, he has an agenda......

"Actually, the UN had not LEGAL BASIS to overturn the ruling of the Council of the League of Nations that essentially recognized ALL of western Palestine as the "Jewish National Home" back in 1920."

Our weasel-word for today is "essentially".

Which is a word that hasbarists use when they don't want to admit that they are plucking their nonsense out of thin air.

The Mandate text is available for everyone to see, and it says this:
"the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,"

The key phrase is "in Palestine", which is a phrase that has a very different meaning to "of Palestine".

You are "essentially" claiming the latter, and therefore your argument contradicted by the text itself which clearly says the former.

At which point, of course, your entire post falls into a crumpled heap....

When the UN voted on the partition plan, the borders were well-defined. Only afterwards, and due to the war waged by the Arab countries, the borders became undefined. Hence, your argument is irrelevant.

Rather better than your argument, which is simply illogical.

If Israel's borders WERE defined in the Partition Plan (and I agree, they were) then, by definition, those are still the legal borders of Israel to this very day.

After all, the only way that a country can move it already-defined borders outwards is by mutual agreement with those with whom it shares that border i.e. such a move requires the ANNEXATION of additional territory, and such an act requires that you find someone who is willing to CEDE that additional territory to you.

Israel can't do alter its already-defined borders by war, precisely because of "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war" (thank you, Lord Caradon).

Israel can't point to the Armistice Agreement as being an agreement to alter partition plan-defined borders, precisely because those agreements insisted that the lines defined within weren't borders.

Or, in short, your argument is a nonsense i.e. once there are defined borders then those are your borders, and you can't
a) "undefine them", nor can you
b) alter them by force of arms.

You have to reach an agreement, and Israel can point to no such agreement.

Jew Israel and borders, that's mutually exclusive and a contradictory; even Americans with their moral blindfolds and ugly accents can recognise this bit.

AK
lalqila.wordpress.com

And that treaty clearly states that the border so defined was "without prejudice" to the question of Palestine i.e. while both Israel and Jordan agreed that this border marked where JORDANIAN territory ended it did not in any way, shape or form "define" wether it was "Israel" or "Palestine" that was on the other side of that border.

And rightly so, because neither Jordan nor Israel has any legitimate claim to the territory that makes up the West Bank.

And this is axiomatic: if neither Jordan nor Israel has any legitimate claim to that territory then neither has any authority to agree that a border between them "gives" the West Bank to Israel.

*sigh*

I am dealing with A Man Who Knows Nothing.

The very first line of text in the Mandate explicitely says that the League of Nations did **not** define the boundaries between the various Mandated Territories.

The very first line of text in the Mandate explicitely says that the PURPOSE of Mandates can be found in Article 22 of the League of Nations covenent i.e. the Mandatory was a trustee whose job it was to shepard the people in that territory to eventual statehood.

Q: Did that require that each Mandated Territory end up as a single, unitary state?
A: No, the Mandatory could decide to slice 'n' dice it up into as many successor states as he felt necessary, so long as
(a) the slicing 'n' dicing didn't involve giving away any territory, and
(b) the slices all ended up becoming independent states.

No surprises there: FRANCE sliced the Mandate for Syria into two states (i.e. Syria and Lebanon), and the British did it twice: once when it sliced off Transjordan, and again when it decided to slice what was left into two successor states.

None of those actions violated the Mandate text nor Article 22 of the Covenent, precisely because no matter how many slices were made the end result was always intended to be "independent states".

Mr. Garbuz,

I implore you to review the videos from Professor Sands; they might put a drop of light in your blackened heart.

Here is the link:

http://lalqila.wordpress.com/2010/06/14/shlomo-sand-the-invention-of-the-jewish-people/

Regards,

AK
lalqila.wordpress.com

Israel is not a democracy at all as the country does not belong to the people. In a democracy the country belongs to the people and that is certainly not the case in Israel.

Surely, Israel belongs to the recently imported foreign white Jews from Germany, America, Russia, Poland and Ukraine. But, the country does not belong to the Palestinian natives who have lived in Palestine continuously for the past 100,000 years.

Israel is not a democracy; Israel is a primitive ethnocracy; and this ethnocracy is based on a pre-meditated, well-planned and well-executed kleptocracy; the Jews have stolen Palestine and not only have they destroyed Palestinian lives, they have also stolen Palestinian homes, Palestinian lands, Palestinian water, Palestinian food, Palestinian music. Even the modern Hebrew is a manufactured language created, just a few decades ago, by stealing words from Palestinian Arabic language.

Palestinians are not only completely innocent, but they are completely unarmed. Palestinians do no have soldiers; Palestinians do not have guns; Palestinians do not have bombs; Palestinians do not have tanks; Palestinians do not have armoured personnel careers; Palestinians do not have jets that strafe innocent civlians; Palestinians do not have armoured helicopters that kill Palestinian children; Palestinians do not have ships and submarines that threaten all the poor people around in the neighbourhood and disallow food and supplies from being provided to hungry poor people.

It is Israel that is the root cause of all terror in Palestine and beyond. Israel has a state sponsored assassination policy that regularly kills any potential leaders. Israel not only discriminates against the Palestinians that live in Israel, but it also has the most abhorrent, most brutal occupation of Palestine of West Bank and Gaza known in history.

And it is Israel that is fully armed with nuclear bombs, biological bombs and chemical bombs and it is Israel that has been threatening practically every Muslim country with its weapons of mass destruction.

Don't you think that Israel is the root cause of all invasions, oppressions, assassinations and other hasbara?

Aurangzeb Khan,
lalqila.wordpress.com

Mr. Garbuz,

There is no honour amongst thieves. I am sorry to say the Khazar convert white Jews of Poland were misled and misdirected by the thieves, AKA Jew Zionist Mafia who perpetuated Jew on Jew violence. Remember Irgun gun smuggling ship Altalena and her fate and the racist discrimination against Ethiopian, Yemeni and Oriental Jews even today in Jew Israel.

Rationalisations will never make your thievery or your war crimes any better.

It is time to follow your best friends, the white Afrikaners, and go back to where you came from: Germany, America, Russia, Poland and Ukraine.

Regards,

AK
lalqila.wordpress.com

No question about. KING SOLOMON, great points you made there, hopefully this evil can be defeated.

Isabel De Los Rios

Mr. Garbuz,

There is a marked difference between lack of unrelated language groups and recent import of a few words from the perceived holy or mother language.

Words like admiral, algebra, monsoon etc. have been recently imported into English language from Arabic. There is no scientific connection, of any value, between English and Arabic which are West Germanic and Afro-Asiatic languages, respectively, and thus completely separate.

Similarly, a few words of Arabic and the long dead Hebrew language that have been imported into Yiddish in recent years; but the core languages are completely unrelated and different from each other. There is no scientific connection, of any value, between Yiddish and Arabic / Hebrew which are Low Germanic and Afro-Asiatic languages, respectively, , and thus completely separate.

You can try as much as you want, but the Khazar converts to Judaism of Eastern Europe will stay Eastern European for the next 1000 years or till they are assimilated into the Arabs during this time. Stealing Palestinian foods like humus and falafel and FALSELY calling them Israeli will not make them Israeli. Similarly Yemeni converts to Judaism and Ethiopian converts to Judaism will stay as they are, or till they are assimilated into the Arabs in the goodness of time.

May you have the courage, someday, to see the folly of your ways and needless blood shedding it has cast upon our Earth.

Regards,

AK
lalqila.wordpress.com

Mr. Garbuz,

DNA Proof that the Eastern European Jew / Ashkenazi Jew has NO Semitic link to Palestine, so the claim to stealing the homes, lands and orchards of the Palestinians is totally bogus, just like almost anything else about this strange self-centered and self-promoting tribe.

The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms bye Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin. This study aims to establish the likely origin of EEJ (Eastern European Jews) by genetic distance analysis of autosomal markers and haplogroups on the X and Y chromosomes and mtDNA.

According to the autosomal polymorphisms the investigated Jewish populations do not share a common origin, and EEJ are closer to Italians in particular and to Europeans in general than to the other Jewish populations.

The similarity of EEJ to Italians and Europeans is also supported by the X chromosomal haplogroups. In contrast according to the Y-chromosomal haplogroups EEJ are closest to the non-Jewish populations of the Eastern Mediterranean. MtDNA shows a mixed pattern, but overall EEJ are more distant from most populations and hold a marginal rather than a central position.

The autosomal genetic distance matrix has a very high correlation (0.789) with geography, whereas the X-chromosomal, Y-chromosomal and mtDNA matrices have a lower correlation (0.540, 0.395 and 0.641 respectively).

The close genetic resemblance to Italians accords with the historical presumption that Ashkenazi Jews started their migrations across Europe in Italy and with historical evidence that conversion to Judaism was common in ancient Rome. The reasons for the discrepancy between the biparental markers and the uniparental markers are discussed.

Figures and the complete article here:

http://lalqila.wordpress.com/2010/11/16/dna-proof-that-the-eastern-european-jew-ashkenazi-jew-has-no-semitic-link-to-palestine-so-the-claim-to-stealing-the-homes-lands-and-orchards-of-the-palestinians-is-totally-bogus-just-like-almost/

Regards,

AK
lalqila.wordpress.com

Mr. Garbuz,

Thank you for your input and insight; I will review it shortly.

But, I doubt it will sway me.

Eastern European Jews are Eastern Europeans.
Yemeni Jews are Yemenis.
Iraqi Jews are Iraqi.
Irani Jews are Irani.
Indian Jews are Indian.
Chinese Jews are Chinese.
Ethiopian Jews are Ethiopians.
Lemba Jews are South African Jews.

Similarly:

Palestnian Muslims are Palestinians.
Saudi Muslims are Saudis.
...
Chinese Muslims are Chinese.
Indonesian Muslims are Indonesians.
...
Bosnian Muslims are Bosnians.
...
Nigerian Muslims are Nigerians

Similar to wild claims of Jews, many Muslims also claim Arabs as their ancestors, but how much Arab blood is in an Indian or an Indonesian?

Even American blacks have more shared genes with white Americans than they have with African blacks; and their history is barely a few hundered years old; whilst Jews have been absent, save the Palestinians (the true descendents of the ancient Hebrews), from Palestine for 2000 years.

Of course the Polish Jew has more in common with other Polaks in every definiton of the word, culturally, ethnically, genetically, linguistically etc. that's why they look the same and act the same.

Seeing patterns where no patterns exist is a fallacy.

Regards,

AK
lalqila.wordpress.com

Mr. Garbuz,

Firstly, I have to say that your name does not sound a bit Semitic or of Afro-Asiatic language extraction; but that is a small matter.

Secondly, the Turks in Germany are very recent phenomenon; same is true for the Algerians and Moroccans in France; these are first or second generation immigrants, so you are rather stretching or shall I say rather distorting the facts.

On the other hand, I have known many a vodka drinking Russian Jews that can't be distinguished from regular Russians, not one iota. They love the same food, same drinks, same music, same women, same high and low culture. The Russian Jews are definitely Russians. Instead of artificially manufacturing Jewish people, one can easily say that they are the Russian people.

Similarly, one can say the same thing about cricket loving English Jews and sausage and cheese eating French Jews. The German Jews have the same last names as regular Germans and I for one can't tell the difference between them till they start talking about Israel and Palestine, then the lines are drawn. Sure some of them look a bit different, just as Gypsies look a bit different, but these really are not the Jewish people but they are rather English and the French people. They may be annoying and rude at times, but they are very much part of the prevailing dominant culture.

I have to add that problem of the Russian Jews is rather extreme as we all know their severe maladjustment in Israel. Some Russians are even part of neo-Nazi gangs in Israel; now that is an extreme contradiction: Jew and Nazis.

The Jewish people are a complete and utter invention because Russian Jews have nothing in common with the French Jews and the French Jews have nothing in common with the Iraqi, Yemeni, Ethiopian, Iranian,, Indian or Chinese Jews. In fact none has anything in common with each other except the various variations of Judaism that each profess to own and follow. Even the threadbare religious myths and practices are at best different.

So, what is common between all these various converts from the four corners of the world is just the word Jew, because the Lemba in South Africa and the Oriental Jew elsewhere both call themselves Jew.

How does a mere word "Jew" sum and comprise a Jewish people?

Two words: subterfuge and thuggery.

Now this is a poor basis for any people.

A word of advice to the wise: Russian Jews are devastating Israel. They need to be deported out of Israel, at the first opportunity, for Israel's self-preservation reasons. The Russians will never assimilate and will continue to cause existential problems to Israel.

Regards,

AK
lalqila.wordpress.com