The Black Hawk Down Effect

We all know what went wrong the last time the international community tried to end a crisis in Somalia. But we've forgotten what went right.

BY JOHN L. HIRSCH | AUGUST 12, 2011

This month has seen some of the grimmest news in years out of Somalia, a country that has become shorthand for despair. Since a famine began sweeping the war-torn country in July, tens of thousands of Somalis have died of starvation, and many more have sought refuge elsewhere. On Aug. 8, the U.S. government announced that it was pledging another $105 million to alleviating hunger in the Horn of Africa, bringing total U.S. support during the famine crisis to more than $500 million.

But one thing no one in the United States is talking about is repeating the country's actions 20 years ago, when the overthrow of Mohamed Siad Barre's 21-year military rule and the ensuing civil war prompted a similarly dire famine crisis in southern Somalia. U.S. troops were dispatched to smooth the way for aid delivery, and the effort to alleviate the famine is mostly remembered in the United States today for how it ended: a U.S. Black Hawk helicopter shot down with a rocket-propelled grenade over Mogadishu and the body of a U.S. Army soldier* aboard dragged through the city's streets.

As an advisor to the initial U.S. mission in Somalia, I remember the affair differently. "Black Hawk Down" may have been a disaster, but the U.S.-led relief effort that preceded this event was not; Operation Restore Hope, as it was called, saved tens if not hundreds of thousands of lives.

Many observers have drawn the wrong lesson from Somalia: that all interventions in anarchic places, no matter how well-intentioned, are riskier than they are worth. Today, faced with a new catastrophe in the Horn of Africa, we need to draw the better lesson. Another military intervention is not the answer, but by treating the famine as a political problem with potential solutions rather than a hopeless lost cause, the United States can help stop a tragic situation from becoming even more so.

Somalia had been deteriorating since the mid-1980s, but matters came to a head in January 1991, when a broad alliance of clan-based insurgents under the umbrella of the Somali National Alliance closed in on Mogadishu, finally forcing Siad Barre to flee the capital on Jan. 27. As the government collapsed, fighting broke out among clan factions -- led by rival generals Mohamed Farrah Aidid and Ali Mahdi Mohamed -- for local and regional control. Siad Barre's forces tried to fight their way back to the capital, and the battles that ensued forced virtually the entire civilian population to flee the "triangle of death" between Kismayo, Bardera, and Baidoa. The scorched-earth policy of the combatants destroyed the livelihoods of nomadic herders and sedentary farmers alike. More than half a million Somalis sought refuge in neighboring Kenya, and an equal number scattered farther from their homes. Many barely survived in camps on the outskirts of Mogadishu, where fighting broke out between the two warring factions for control of the port and airport.

Throughout 1992, global television coverage of starving women and children -- similar to scenes on today's screens -- highlighted the immensity of the suffering. The U.N. Security Council struggled to deal with the situation, initially dispatching 50 unarmed observers and deploying 500 Pakistani peacekeepers to the airport as well as authorizing an emergency U.S. airlift from Mombasa, Kenya, to southern Somalia. But it was all to little avail. Finally, in mid-1992 U.S. Sens. Paul Simon and Nancy Kassebaum visited Somalia to assess the situation, and together with humanitarian aid agencies they appealed to President George H.W. Bush to intervene to end the famine. He did so shortly after Thanksgiving, offering U.N. Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali a U.S.-led peacekeeping force to manage the situation until the United Nations could mobilize its own larger force. Operation Restore Hope was born.

Under the leadership of Ambassador Robert Oakley and Lt. Gen. Robert Johnston, the operation quickly brought an end to the famine crisis. The Americans convinced the warlords to open supply routes for delivery of humanitarian assistance, setting in motion the transformation of the civil war into a political process. Governance was re-established at local levels pending national reconciliation. The U.S. peacekeepers pledged to avoid the use of force except in self-defense. On Dec. 11, 1992, less than a week after the first Marines arrived, the two warlords had agreed to a cease-fire, the opening of the roads, and the removal of armed vehicles from the main roads. A Conference on National Reconciliation in Somalia was convened in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, four months later.

All this was possible because Oakley, Johnston, and Gen. Anthony Zinni (later head of the U.S. Central Command) communicated directly with the warlords. The United Nations, however, didn't -- and things went downhill in a hurry once its peacekeeping force arrived. Operating without consultation with or consent of the warlords, U.N. forces quickly found themselves at war with Aidid after his forces on June 6, 1993, killed 43 Pakistani peacekeepers. The denouement began on Oct. 3, 1993, with "Black Hawk Down," a failed attempt to capture Aidid that led to the death of 18 U.S. soldiers and hundreds of Somalis in an overnight firefight. Eighteen months later U.N. forces withdrew, and Somalia descended into the nightmare that has engulfed the country ever since.

PASCAL PAVANI/Getty Images

 

John L. Hirsch is a senior adviser at the International Peace Institute in New York. In 1992 and 1993 he served as adviser to Amb. Robert Oakley and Lt. Gen. Robert Johnston. He is coauthor, with Oakley, of Somalia and Operation Restore Hope: Reflections on Peacemaking and Peacekeeping.

NEGATIVE

5:20 PM ET

August 12, 2011

I'm not sure if this is an

I'm not sure if this is an issue with the author of this article or the editor but it was two Black Hawks that were shot down and U.S. Army soldiers who were killed in the firefight.

 

CONSCIENCEQUEST

4:44 AM ET

August 14, 2011

A very selective view of Operation Restore Hope

The author has a very selective memory of restore hope and thus conveniently blaming the UN. When the UN peacekeepers landed it was the US forces that controlled the airport and when the US forces cut and ran it was the UN peacekeepers that covered their withdrawal. It was the US forces that went after Aidid inspite of talking to him as killing UN peacekeepers is a war crime under international law.

But all this is understandable as the author was part of the US effort and becoming an apologist is the natural reaction with dumping the blame on the UN. The fact of the matter is that Oakley and his team never thought much of the UN and just like Bremer in Iraq, tried to run the show with very similar outcomes. If the US had sustained and absorbed the 19 casualities and stayed put, Somalia would have been a different place today. UN peacekeepers do not come to a place to wage war. They are not capable of it nor do their respective capitals want them to embark on any such adventures. The US forces were the only forces capable of restoring not just hope but security also. They did not and thus deserve the major portion of the blame for what Somalia is today. As for the Al Shabab, its once again the classic stupidity of 'you are either with us or against us'. The Qataris offered to mediate a while ago when their leader came to Doha agreeing to talk but the US administration had already branded them terrorists and refused any talks.

The author once again takes the easiest path that most political pundits take i.e. there is a need for a politcal solution without elaborating how we arrive at one. Machiavelli had said 'when you eat with the devil, make sure you have a long spoon'. So we need a long spoon for Somalia that results in sustained engagement and not cutting and running when the going gets tough.

 

CREEKSIDE

9:57 PM ET

August 14, 2011

inaccuracy

Calling the dead soldiers 'Marines' calls into question the entire article as well as the credentials of both the author and the editor. I can only presume that the rest of the article is as poorly sourced.

If foreign policy experts see themselves as seeking to create peace, they must first master the basics of their own profession.

Master Sergeant Gary I. Gordon and Sergeant 1st Class Randall D. Shughart, both of the United States Army, died in the protection of downed aircrew and were awarded the Medal of Honor for their selfless and entirely voluntary heroism.

"When Master Sergeant Gordon learned that ground forces were not immediately available to secure the second crash site, he and another sniper unhesitatingly volunteered to be inserted . . . Equipped with only his sniper rifle and a pistol, Master Sergeant Gordon and his fellow sniper, while under intense small arms fire from the enemy, fought their way through a dense maze of shanties and shacks to reach the critically injured crew members. Master Sergeant Gordon immediately pulled the pilot and the other crew members from the aircraft, establishing a perimeter which placed him and his fellow sniper in the most vulnerable position . . . After his team member was fatally wounded and his own rifle ammunition exhausted, Master Sergeant Gordon returned to the wreckage, recovering a rifle with the last five rounds of ammunition and gave it to the pilot with the words, "good luck." Then, armed only with his pistol, Master Sergeant Gordon continued to fight until he was fatally wounded. "

http://www.history.army.mil/html/moh/somalia.html

 

SPEAKOUT

4:51 PM ET

August 16, 2011

US SOLIDERS DIE

I want to say that you are a cold heartless person. US soliders fight for our Country for us to be free and we should NOT be alright with absorbing them to keep peace in a Country that continues to fight. I'm proud to be a AMERICAN and would hope that everyone living here would be too. Anyone who beleives we should allow soliders to die wastefully, should go there themselfs and see how bad it is and then talk. Dragging a soldier down a street is not civilized or right to do to anyone a especially a US solider.

PROUD USA CITIZEN I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS 100% FOR ALL THEY DO!!!

 

RANGER1129

1:32 AM ET

August 17, 2011

THEY NEED TO GET THE ......... RIGHT

YES, IT WAS THE ''''' US ARMY '''''' AND US ARMY SOLDIERS THAT WERE KILLED..... AND IT WAS TWO ... NOT ONE BLACK HAWK SHORT DOWN..... AND WE SHOULD OF NEVER EVER POPED SMOKE AND LEFT THIS HELL HOLE..... WE SHOULD OF BEEN ABLE TO FINISH OUR MISSION.AND EVERY ........ AND TAKE OUT EVERY WARLORD AND EVERY ........ ......... THAT KILLED OUR BROTHERS ..... THINK AND THINK HARD..... WHY WERE WE TOLD TO POP SMOKE AND TOLD TO MOVE OUT...... THE LOST OF OUR BROTHERS THAT WERE KILLED IT DIDNT MEAN SHIT TO THE VERY SAME ONES THAT TOLD US TO POP SMOKE AND PULL OUT ... I SAY WE SHOULD SENT THEM OVER TO HELL HOLES LIKE THIS AND HAVE THEM SEEE/ FEEL THE PAIN LIKE WE HAVE FELT AND STILL CARRY WITH US EVERY DAY AND EVERY NIGHT.... IN MY HEART ... '''' YOU START A ......... MISSION .... YOU FINISH THE ....... MISSION.... YOU DONT JUST SAY..... OK..... GAME OVER ..... LET LESS GO PLAY SOMEWHERE ELSE ..... BUT, WITH OUR LIFE..... AND OUR LOVE ONES WHO STILL FEEL AND CARRY THIS PAIN JUST BECAUSE OF ... ( WHOS GAMES ) NOW ITS LIKE ... LET US GO BACK OVER.... NO ITS NOT ''''''' Y O U '''''''''' SO WHEN YOU SAY LET ''' U S '''''' WHERE THE ....... ARE YOU ???? YA, BACK HOME WITH YOUR LOVE ONES WITH NOT A WORRY AT ALL .... WE SHOULD SEND ... YOU ..... AND YOU KNOW WHO IM TALKING ABOUT...... AND LOOK... THE SHIT IS STILL GOING ON..... LITTLE KIDS... MOTHERS....SO MANY PEOPLE STILL DIEING JUST BECAUSE ...... YOU ...... DIDNT ALLOW .... '''''US ''''' TO FINISH '''''' OUR '''''' MISSION ....SO NOW SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MANY PEOPLE HAVE TO DIE AND ARE STILL DIEING RIGHT NOW ..... WHY ...... YOU FAILED ...... OUR FELLOW BROTHER AND THE LIFES GOING THROUGH HELL THEN AND NOW..... I KNOW MANY KNOW WHO ''''' YOU ''''' ARE . ITS A SHAME THAT '''''' WE '''''' AND OUR FELLOW BROTHERS AND OUR CHILDREN AND LOVE ONES PAYED THE PRICE WITH '''''' OUR ''''' BLOOD ..... WHILE YOUR HANDS WERE KEPT CLEAN...... VERY SAD..... BUT, '''''' YOU ''''' WILL HAVE TO FACE GOD WHEN IT COMES YOUR JUDGEMENT DAY ... AND THEN YOU WILL BE PLACED IN A HELL HOLE LIKE WE WERE... BUT, MANY OF ''''' US ''''' MADE IT HOME..... BUT, WHERE GOD IS GOING TO PUT ''YOU'' THERE IS NO COMMING BACK..... GOD BLESS OUR BROTHERS WHO GAVE THERE LIFE....

 

KUNINO

4:16 PM ET

August 19, 2011

The central lesson of BHD

When a sloppy junior officer leads an ill-equipped (apparently they carried no water) snatch patrol into hostile territory, bad things will happen. But the central lesson is the later career of that sloppy officer, who was promoted to dubious command in Iraq, and then to be training officer at one of the leading domestic US Army bases. That says quite a lot about military accountability.

On that bad day in Mogadishu, let's not forget, the US Army patrol escaped their plight courtesy of Pakistani armor. You know, the place we are now instructed to revile, and that we invaded to kill Osama bin Laden a little time back.

 

LIFEISLIFE

5:19 PM ET

August 20, 2011

Somalia is...

Truth being told, with nearly every Nation with a Rich Dictatorial Leader as a leader rising up against them in complete anarchy and demanding political change… Hindsight say's... We were damn lucky to get it done in Iraq when we did. At least we have a few secure locations to protect our allies and interests, which is oil and not handmade jewelry, in that region much faster then had we needed to deploy them from the USA. Now I realize that is counter intuitive to ANYTHING the Left may consider reason... But that is okay... You'll catch up eventually. As far as Somalia is concerned, For now anyway… There are 100's of other Nations who can answer the dinner bell for the people in Somalia... we did what we could and lost 18 men for it... Not 1 of which I would trade for the entire Nation of Somalia, its people or anything within its borders

 

MUSE

9:18 PM ET

August 12, 2011

Somaliland deserves recognition

A boring headline for many of us in the West. But, in the breakaway country of Somaliland the June 26th election represented a significant accomplishment. The National Election Commission reported that Ahmed Mohamud Silanyo, the opposition candidate and leader of the Kulmiye Unity and Development Party, won 50 percent of the vote. Current President Dahir Riyale Kahin won 33 percent, and Faisal Ali Warabe of the Justice and Welfare Party party had about 17 percent. President-elect Silanyo will soon become the 4th president of Somaliland. This successful democratic election serves as an example for Somalia and other regions around the world that are that seeking recognition as independent states that it is possible to conduct fair and free elections during these turbulent times.

The election was not without some risk. The militant group Al-Shabab controls much of Somalia and claimed that the democratic ideals the elections rested on were "the devil's principles." Al-Shabab made headlines and reminded declared to the world that they do not hesitate to use violence when they accepted responsibility for bombings in Uganda during the World Cup final that claimed seventy four lives. They have also implemented a strict interpretation of sharia law in the parts of Somalia under its control, going so far as to ban radio stations from playing Western media such as the BBC and Voice of America.

DOMESTIC POLICY

Somaliland has a unique history. Formerly known as British Somaliland, it gained its independence in 1960, and shortly thereafter quickly joined with the area then known as Italian Somaliland to form Somalia. After the government of Somalia disintegrated in 1991, the northern end of the former British Somaliland declared independence on May 18th of that year. This new country calls itself “Republic of Somaliland” and has its capital in Hargeisa. The world community generally believes it is an autonomous region while many of its leaders try to move forward and gain recognition as an independent country.

Somaliland has taken several halting steps towards the implementation of a full democracy and a functioning government. Abderahman Ahmed Ali Tuur was the first president, but the first free and fair election did not occur it was not until the 2003 presidential election, when a majority of Somalis cast their ballots for Dahir Riyale Kahin. The country has its own justice system, currency, security and police forces, and foreigners require a special visa issued by the Somaliland government to visit. Economically, the country is underdeveloped but it is relatively stable. It receives an estimated $1 billion in remittances from citizens living abroad. It also has a strong livestock and agricultural industry. Much like Afghanistan, it potentially likely has a dearth of untapped natural resources which could help lift the country out of poverty.

SOMOLILAND IN GLOBAL CONTEXT

Domestic stability is vitally important for Somaliland, but its foreign relations may play an equally important role as it struggles to become a country. Currently, Somaliland is not recognized by any other state. Newly-elected President Silanyo explained both a cause and consequence of this, "the international community still regards this [conflict] as a regional issue. . .we do not get much aid from the international community as we would have been if we were a member state. . .we are not entitled even to loans from the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund and other international institutions because we are not a recognized state." As long as other nation-states individually and the international community as a whole continue to withhold Somaliland recognition, it will be forced to forge on alone with its limited financial resources.

It might seem odd that Somaliland is not considered a recognized state. From an international law perspective, it still languishes in a type of purgatory. The 1933 Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States says that a state must first have four characteristics:. States must have a permanent population, a defined territory, a government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other states. Somaliland has all of these qualities. While Somaliland complies with the facile requirements spelled out by the Motevideo Convention, it continues to languish because issue of statehood is essentially decided by other countries refuse to regard it as an official nation-state for a variety of complex historical, economic, and political reasons.

There are many examples of a region breaking off and becoming a state. Kosovo is a good example of a country much further along in the process than Somaliland. Many other countries widely recognized it as a state. However, a few countries are holdouts that stubbornly refuse to acknowledge its legitimacy. They cite reasons such as a lack of respect for international law (Spain), lack of UN approval (Cyprus), and their own internal political issues (Hungry). Some of these concerns were dealt with in the International Court of Justice’s Advisory Opinion, which stated that Kosovo’s declaration of independence did not violate international law. These same complaints and responses may come up as Somaliland bids to join the exclusive club of statehood. At the other end of the spectrum are regions that lack even some of the Montevideo criteria such as the Kabylie separatists in Algeria. Leaders of areas such as these could pattern their national growth and statehood bid from from the example of good leadership in Somaliland.

Commentators have suggested that the relative stability of Somaliland could bring it greater regional leadership. They believe that Somaliland, another autonomous region known as Puntland and the strife filled country of Somalia could reform into the Federal States of Somalia with Hargeisa as the new capital. While there is not the poisoned and acrimonious relationship often created as a result of separatist movements, Somaliland does regard Somalia with a strong sense of wariness, concerned that violence and fighting could spread. The humanitarian dimensions of stateless people are as numerous as they are tragic: who would request aid if Somaliland were overcome by its neighbors’ strife? Who would protect its most vulnerable residents?

Regardless of its status (or lack thereof) as an independent state, the world should congratulate President-elect Silanyo on his accomplishment. Good news from this region is rare and the peaceful passing of one government to another should be recognized and encouraged. There is no reason to shut the doors of international recognition on Somililand. These first steps in democracy should be encouraged and its economy should be strengthened with foreign aid. Hopefully they will serve as an example around the world.

 

DEREK VANCE

12:44 AM ET

August 17, 2011

Hopeful...

Muse...

First off, perhaps by starting your statement with a more inviting tone, rather then doing the typical Leftists "Westerners are the Problem" intro by declaring what happened in Somaliland as "Boring" to people in the West, You would allow more people past your attitude by-line and be able to educate them about what you are trying to say?

It’s just an observation... but I promise the old adage saying you get more fly's with honey then vinegar is true...

Secondly... As a Westerner, a Capitalist and a person who does not want to see anyone suffer needlessly, I hope and pray that what you have written is something that will last and take hold. Perhaps even help heal a deeply scared land... But... I do not think it cynical or pessimistic to point out the obvious. This election happened on June 26th, Nearly 3 moths ago give or take a week or two. While we stand in hope, prayer and certainly ready to support anything positive... Let us revisit the results of the election, and the actions of those elected in say... a year or so. Then and only then will we know if these well meaning people have the support and mostly the hearts of the people they govern. Because if they do not... I fear it will be s short-lived experiment in sanity in a land infected and diseased by insanity.

 

SHAKUR

8:46 AM ET

August 19, 2011

The Consequences of Somaliland’s International

No country on earth would wish to find itself in the current situation of Somalia. While the entire world is united to find both short term humanitarian assistance and a long terms political solution in Somalia, some opportunistic individuals are advocating for a baseless seperation and by all means.

See the latest report on the dire consequences of considering

http://www.wardheernews.com/Articles_2011/August/16_Consequences%20of%20Somaliland_unionist.pdf

 

HURRICANEWARNING

4:37 PM ET

August 13, 2011

it was not US Marines who

it was not US Marines who died. It was army soldiers. Get your facts straight.

 

THE COLOR OF LILA

12:09 AM ET

August 14, 2011

US Military is Not the Right Instrument

It's not just the 18 dead troops back in 1993 that should give us pause. It's the whole concept of using the US military to secure aid for victims of a factional conflict. Any time you insert an armed force among other warring armed forces, they WILL become involved in the fighting, and then you have the same "mission creep" that we had in Somalia.

Can we please stop cavalierly throwing the US military at every horrible problem in the world? Bad enough that we invaded Iraq for no apparent reason. Then we had to go and bomb Libya, but not the other oppressed Arab countries; why not Syria? And now here is the press questioning why we don't return to Somalia. Why not Sudan?

We have limits. Budgetary limits, manpower limits, equipment limits. Respect that, and reserve use of force for US national security reasons.

 

DEREK VANCE

1:03 AM ET

August 17, 2011

Then what?

TCOL...

I do not feel the US throws its military "cavalierly" into any situation. Although by reading the remainder of your post I can likely determine why you would hold that sentiment. Let me also give you a hindsight lesson, while the US did not find what it was told by its intelligence resources and those of 3 other Nations. And while we did undertake the mission in a bi-partisan fashion, the fact remains that given the current Mid-East Environment, both in those Nations you mentioned and others. And given the very clear fact that Iran is a DEADLY Nation at the critical stages of being able to cause unimaginable devastation anywhere on Earth. And, truth being told, with nearly every Nation with a Rich Dictatorial Leader as a leader rising up against them in complete anarchy and demanding political change… Hindsight say's... We were damn lucky to get it done in Iraq when we did. At least we have a few secure locations to protect our allies and interests in that region much faster then had we needed to deploy them from the USA. Now I realize that is counter intuitive to ANYTHING the Left may consider reason... But that is okay... You'll catch up eventually. As far as Somalia is concerned, For now anyway… There are 100's of other Nations who can answer the dinner bell for the people in Somalia... we did what we could and lost 18 men for it... Not 1 of which I would trade for the entire Nation of Somalia, its people or anything within its borders.

 

LOANMOR1

4:36 AM ET

August 14, 2011

again !

again Somalia !
heloc tips

 

WAWIZLE

9:09 AM ET

August 15, 2011

Lets heal the world, Somalis needs us

The situation in Somalia has been creeping into the neighboring Kenya where millions of refugees and cattle have gone to seek food, shelter and peace. The number of immigrants in Kenya in need of food assistance because of the drought is 2.4 million, 1.6 of whom are receiving food from WFP and the remainder from the Government. The number indeed is expected to rise.
The drought has led to alarming rates of malnutrition among young children in the affected areas in the Dadaab refugee camp,in Northern Kenya, more than one third of children have been found to be malnourished, some of them severely.
Such is the extent of the disaster, which has been compounded by high food prices, that it is expected to continue beyond the start of the short rains season in October, 2011. The refugees' property, businesses and cattle have all perished and/or left behind as their number one priority is to seek food and water, most of the time to no avail.

 

NAIROBI88

10:16 AM ET

August 15, 2011

AMISOM

The African Union force in Mogadishu has controlled both the port and international airport since 2009.

 

T1BRIT

3:55 PM ET

August 15, 2011

Marines?

They were US Army Rangers and Delta force !

 

FOSSAFUN

4:35 PM ET

August 16, 2011

Too many people in a poor

Too many people in a poor habitat.
I can't help but wonder how many starving twenty some years ago survived only to procreate more suffering.

I hate misery and dispair.
Population education is needed. Birth Control is needed.- Maybe more than food.

 

TUTIS CAUTUS

5:45 PM ET

August 16, 2011

Islam

When the Muslims stop killing the Africans, the problem will end.

We cannot turn our heads to the Islamic goal of world domination.

It is terrible that the primative Somilian Africans cannot defend themselives, but this is the plan for Islamic destruction, reduce th ability of a Nation to resist, then kill them all, starvation, slavery, destruction of property rights. Once the termites have taken control, it is necessary to destroy the whole house to stop the infection.

Stop Islam !!!

 

USMC0351GRUNT

6:23 PM ET

August 16, 2011

Far too many people miss the solution to this crisis.

It appears that the vast majority of people fail to realize the solution to this crisis; "The U.S. peacekeepers pledged to avoid the use of force except in self-defense. On Dec. 11, 1992, less than a week after the first Marines arrived, the two warlords had agreed to a cease-fire, the opening of the roads, and the removal of armed vehicles from the main roads."

We have over 25 MILLION Veterans in the U.S., many of us are U.S. Marines. Still retaining our training, many still mission ready.

By the time the next 100 people bother to read this, "story", another 10 thousand Somalis will be dead from starvation. Why are we, (Veteran Marines) still sitting on the sidelines and not going in?

 

KCIRISH2688

7:40 PM ET

August 16, 2011

Forget Somalia, they don't need another hand out!

Here is how I see it, Somalia needs to die just like the Roman Empire and many other civilizations that based its existence on only caring about its selfish needs. When we went in back in 1992-1993 and we lost two Black Hawk Helos, and 20 or more United States Soldiers, who were a mix of Rangers and Delta, lost their lives trying to capture that piece of crap Aidid in order to bring peace to Somalia and what did the Somalians do? They screwed us over with AK's, RPG's, RPK's, and other weapons i and guess what they did it with the intent just to kick us out after all we did for them? Forget that and they can go screw a hot poker up their rectums and smile! Good men died back in 1993 and I don't think we owe Somalia a damn thing. They didn't want our help back then but they could sure take our food and run, then turn around and shoot at our men with an AK-47. Plus they took Mike Durant, one of the Black Hawk Pilots I believe he was on 61 or 64, and interrogated him and beat him. What do we owe them is what I ask, because all around the world you hear people saying, "Oh why is the U.S butting into everyone else's business but not taking control of their own?" However the minute something goes wrong we are always called on to use our resources, our money, our technology, and our men and women and fight someone elses' war. If it is a ally or allies like in World War Two and the threat is great or just like in the past 12 to 13 years in Iraq and Afghanistan where we were just so sick and tired of Al-Qaeda and these other terrorist sand jockies who want to send out a hateful message of theri version of Islam, which they are similar to Fred Phelps and his rag tag gang of retards who have their heads stuck up their butts and send a message of hate through supposed "Christian" ideals, then yeah I can back it but I do not like someone who is not an ally jerking us around and then spit on us! Enough is enough, the Somalis did it to themselves and let them starve, no more humanitiarian missions to a ungrateful people, no more helping those who will gladly take stuff form us and then shoot us in the back like they did in 1993. I would rather continue giving aid to those who are in need like in Japan, The Phillipines, and other places that are torn by a famine or other natural disasters. I do not want to give power to those who would use the United States in order to continue a stupid civil war that has no meaning behind it! USA all the Way! Rangers Lead the Way! God Bless the United States of America!

 

DD214

10:56 PM ET

August 16, 2011

Hooah.

Hooah.

 

DEREK VANCE

12:31 AM ET

August 17, 2011

2nd time shame on us...

The issues in Somalia run far too deep and the Muslim Hatred of the American or any Western culture is far too advanced to believe there is a mission that we can come out of Somalia without deep regret because of the stupidity and hubris associated with ever trying to re-involve ourselves there.
The downing of two US Helicopters and Murder of 18 US Military Men is not am "Effect" to which we can apply a new face. It is no "Effect" at all; it was what happens there. The US was not waging war in Somalia; they were trying to remove a Warlord who had murdered countless UN workers trying to feed and shelter the population He Lorded over. Now, you are 100% correct, the situation HAS changed; now it is in the hands of one of if not the most dangerous Terrorist organizations in the World.
And what YOU are suggesting is we give it the old "2nd Chance at redemption" treatment? No, absolutely not. There is no "Political solution" to be found with people who are fundamentally taught to hate Americans. There is no "Humanitarian Effort" that is going to succeed in that place. For God sake they cannot even control the shipping lanes 300 Miles off shore of Somalia and you and yours believe we can make a difference in the HEART of that mess? NO. Again... NO, absolutely not.
I deeply regret the situation, hunger and death of so many. But in truth, I would not trade even one American boy for the whole lot. And that is exactly what you are asking. It is a big World, The United Emirates, Kuwaiti’s, Jordan and Saudi's are no more then 500-800 Miles away, they too are Muslims and very committed to their religion and people... They are also MEGA wealthy with America Oil money and should help those in their own neck of the woods. The USA should not be charged to come-a-running every time a Nation makes a stupid mistake or chases after warlords and clergymen. We have somehow become the hated giant who must heed the hoards dinner bell to come feed them... Doing so even after having to bare witnessing with our own eye as they road the on the backs of our dead soldiers being pulled behind dilapidated cars for their amusement.
AGAIN...NO!!! ABSOLUTELY NOT! It is not our turn to fix it... Batter up, World!

 

SIDKOF

2:58 PM ET

August 17, 2011

We all know what went wrong

We all know what went wrong the last time the international community tried to finish a crisis in Somalia. But weâ??ve forgotten what went right....jogos de motos

 

MAZO

9:37 AM ET

August 18, 2011

What's the Point ??

In this entire article I haven't actually found a purpose or a compelling reason for the US or even the UN to go into Somalia and risk people and money to basically apply a band-aid solution over something so broken as Somalia.

Somalia, apart from housing one of the biggest Terrorist groups in Africa is also the home of most of the Indian Ocean pirate that have robbed the world of millions of dollars in ransom money. In fact, the amount of money they have robbed from the world would be much more than any aid the international community will provide.

So why exactly should we risk lives, yet more money and effort to help a place that is more likely to continue down the same dysfunctional path it has taken for so long ?

In fact there is a more compelling reason to bomb Somalia now and break the pirate dens and ports now, when they are more vulnerable than give them any aid.

Helping the Somalis is a thankless and utterly futile job that most nations in the world can do without, especially in the present climate of economic difficulties.

 

CHALK 2

10:33 AM ET

August 18, 2011

2 black hawks

there were actually two separate black hawks that crashed in the city that day. In addition, another two US helicopters crash landed back at the hangar where the rangers and delta operators were stationed. This, and the now corrected Marine gaffe, do not add much credibility to the article.

 

IMANT

5:29 AM ET

August 19, 2011

The most disgusting thing in

The most disgusting thing in all this is that common people are used like pawns there. While some big bosses are fighting for the power, thousands of innocent citizens are dying from the lack of food. What the hell is that?! To my mind the help should be delivered and accepted, at least some lives will be saved.
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ANAN

6:33 PM ET

September 8, 2011

Communicate Locally to help Famine victims!

Operation Restore Hope in Somalia is one of the fewer instances where American military presence has indeed helped the locals by facilitating peace with the co-operation of local war-lords. Holding an extensive dialogue with the local political chiefs is the natural anti inflammatoriesway of dealing with the crisis. Famine in Somalia needs the help of international bodies, for their resources, supplies and some military assistance that will ward-off the possible civil war. The purpose of one U.S operation gone awry shouldn’t affect or undermine the Somalia’s plea for help; remember the families saved and strive towards bringing together Aidid and Ali Mahdi to provide relief to the famine-stricken areas.

 

THOMASENA142

1:08 AM ET

September 10, 2011

The Black Hawk Down Effect

We all know what went wrong the last time the international community tried to end a crisis in Somalia. But we've forgotten what went right. It appears that the vast majority of people fail to realize the solution to this crisis; "The U.S. peacekeepers pledged to avoid the use of force except in self-defense. On Dec. 11, 1992, less than a week after the first Marines arrived, the two warlords had agreed to a cease-fire, the opening of the roads, and the removal of armed vehicles from the main roads." We have over 25 MILLION Veterans in human resources outsourcing services there were actually two separate black hawks that crashed in the city that day. In addition, another two US helicopters crash landed back at the hangar where the rangers and delta operators were stationed. This, and the now corrected Marine gaffe, do not add much credibility to the article..