Over the Horizon

Is worrying about war with China a self-fulfilling prophecy?

BY JAMES TRAUB | SEPTEMBER 2, 2011

There's little debate over those capabilities, which are clearly superior to what they were only a few years ago, and improving fast. But China's intentions are harder to read. David Finkelstein, director of China Studies at the Center for Naval Analyses in Alexandria, Va., says that he shares the "great uneasiness about how China will use its incipient but growing maritime power" throughout the region, but also notes that in recent years China has concluded that "time is on their side on Taiwan" and thus have been "relatively more relaxed" than in the past.

The obvious Cold War analogy is to the policy of containment: George Kennan believed that the Soviet Union hoped to dance on America's grave but he was prepared to wait for history to inevitably unspool itself; the Soviets could thus be deterred by a patient and persistent policy of containment. Finkelstein argues that a combination of forceful American diplomacy, which he credits the Obama administration with undertaking, and the current level of American military presence -- the Pacific fleet and 60,000 active-duty troops in the region -- has already contained China's ambitions, and will probably continue to do so. Kaplan, too, for all his projections of growing Chinese naval and air power, argues for maintaining the current state of military deployment. In short, it's the intentions that matter.

The authors of "Asian Alliances," by contrast, tend to infer China's intentions from its capacities. In an ominous scenario that carries a strong whiff of Herman Kahn, or perhaps Dr. Strangelove, they describe China using missiles and bombers to launch a devastating attack on Taiwan and the United States responding with a missile strike against the mainland, which in turn leads to … Armageddon. The only way to preclude such a cataclysm, the authors argue, is to adopt much tougher counter-measures: rollback, in Cold War terms.

The "Asian Alliances" report warns that "Asia's future demands nothing less" than a new "shared strategic concept." The web of Cold War alliances should give way to a military partnership among the United States, Japan, South Korea, the Philippines, Indonesia, and others that would require a major increase in military spending and in military and intelligence cooperation. "[A]ny would-be aggressor" would be made to understand "that targeting one ally means invoking the ire of the rest." It's hard to believe that these states would agree to join such an explicitly anti-Chinese coalition. There's also the danger that China would react by concluding that time was no longer on its side, thus turning the coalition into a devastatingly self-fulfilling prophecy.

The costs for the United States would be greater still. The "Asian Alliances" report accuses the United States of courting "strategic insolvency" and proposes investments in vast amounts of new weaponry. In a congressional briefing, Blumenthal specified the hardware: "a next-generation bomber; large numbers of attack submarines (SSNs); a sizeable fifth-generation tactical aircraft fleet" and on and on and on.

That sounds costly, no? Mitt Romney, who never loses an opportunity to talk up the threat from China, not to mention Russia, would peg defense spending at 4 percent of GDP -- $600 billion, or $70 billion more than the current total, which of course would necessitate equivalent cuts elsewhere to make up the difference. Or perhaps voters should accept that national insolvency is a price worth paying in order to address strategic insolvency. Or of course we could Lose China again. Or risk the Big One.

Americans are, understandably, much too obsessed with the economy right now to spare a thought for national security. But the debate is waiting in the wings. The threat of terrorist attack is very real, but diminishing. Al Qaeda is not the national nightmare it once was. Are Americans going to replace it with a new nightmare -- or rather, a recycled one from the depths of the Cold War? I certainly hope not. China's regional ambitions do need to be checked. But if America bankrupts itself in the process, we'll win the battle and lose the war.

FREDERIC J. BROWN/AFP/Getty Images

 SUBJECTS: CHINA, EAST ASIA
 

James Traub is a contributing writer for the New York Times Magazine and a fellow of the Center on International Cooperation. "Terms of Engagement," his column for ForeignPolicy.com, runs weekly.

EZRA

4:49 AM ET

September 3, 2011

Intentions vs. capabilities

The question of China's intentions is moot. If you want to stop a potential competitor, capabilities are what you have to change, not intentions.

Countries fall into one of 4 categories:
1) Powerful and malicious
2) Powerful and friendly
3) Weak and malicious
4) Weak and friendly

It's countries in categories 1 and 2 that matter. Those in categories 3 or 4, countries with low capabilities, if malicious they can't really do any harm, and if friendly they can't really render any assistance, so who cares. All things being equal, I'd rather be on friendly terms with any country, but we ought not go out of our way to gain the friendship of countries in categories 3 and 4. (Libya used to be #3. Now they're #4, apparently. Hooray. They're still irrelevant to most of our concerns.)

But there's an asymmetry between capabilities and intentions, which is that intentions can change very quickly, while capabilities only change very slowly. So the prospect of a powerful China is worrisome, and I decline to be placated with "assurances of good intentions." Even if such assurances were on the level, there's no certainty they won't change tomorrow.

 

FORLORNEHOPE

8:16 AM ET

September 3, 2011

Stuffed

So the US of A faces up to China with a whole new suite of weapons. China gets really scared and dumps Treasury bonds on the market. The AA+ credit rating starts to look like a happy memory. Welcome to post imperial poverty.

 

JOHNWERNEKEN

8:42 PM ET

September 4, 2011

Poverty beats WWIV and especially losing WWIV

Poverty beats WWIV and especially losing WWIV. Besides the military as expensive as it is is a trivial part of government spending.

 

FREETRADER

2:24 PM ET

September 9, 2011

John...

Why would China do that? There is no where else to put the money; in any case, if they hard the market for treasuries it only hurts them. China dumping treasuries won't affect the US AAA credit rating at all, any way.

 

HECTORBD

10:15 AM ET

September 3, 2011

China Buildup

China is indeed becoming huge in terms of the global economy. China is also building up its defense inventory. Just read that China has now an aircraft carrier, and will be stacking up additional weapon capabilities in the near future.

 

BING520

12:39 PM ET

September 3, 2011

China Buildup

China is increasing its military defense spending. We can't talk Chinese long-term planners out of it because we are militarily powerful and able to impose our will over others. We would try to intimidate China by building a larger, far superior armed force. China would be left with two choices; 1) to admit its inferiority and give up the idea of upgrading its military force, or 2) to quicken its pace of upgrading and expaning its military force.

No matter what China decides to do, we must divert a large portion of our economic resopurces. It looks like that an arm race is all but inevitable. I think EZRA's intentions vs capabilities illustrates not only Pentagon's but American people's mentality and thought process. - We Americans will always rely upon our miscle to deal with the world. Without muscle, we can't see how reason can prevail because everyone else is always lesss rational and more evil than we are.

 

HURRICANEWARNING

1:58 PM ET

September 3, 2011

Your idealism is all well and

Your idealism is all well and good, but can you please show me one instance in the thousands of years of human history where a nation state or tribe or whatever has NOT needed muscle to survive...? I challenge that your high and mighty "reason" would not have stopped the Nazis or the Soviets as swiftly, or a as surely as a strong defense did. I remember a man like you, his name was Neville Chamberlain, and apparently, using his "reason", he managed to 'achieve peace in our time'. Though I forget how that turned out...can your remind me? A strong defense is a KEY part of any diplomacy. In other words: Without hard power, there is no soft power. Something to think about.

 

BING520

5:02 PM ET

September 3, 2011

Idalism?

Of course, might is the only language of rationality that is understood universally. I am not disputing the fact that the use of military force has successfully altered the political landscape of human being. You can point out that desuetude of military action by Neville Chamberlain caused The Thrid Reich to start WW II. I can easily point out that white Americans used brutal force to decimate Native Americans, and that how American imperialists applied brutal military method to occupying the Phillipines. Americans, no different from any other peopple or civilization, are always proud of her glory of military victories over others and are always dismissive of pains and loss suffered by those we vanquished.

 

CHINA EXPAT

10:00 AM ET

September 4, 2011

One thing I would like to ask

One thing I would like to ask people on this board.

If the shoe was on the other foot, and China had 60,000 troops stationed 2 hours away from Chinese soil, along with a carrier group skirting around the Florida Keys, would we not want to upgrade our defenses?

China has a Carrier, but it is a refitted Ukranian vessel that by all accounts including their own (and ours) poses no military threat whatsoever. The paranoia emanating from this forum is disturbing.

One thing people here don't get - there is only one country in the world who has been prosecuting aggressive military action in other countries, pre-emptively over the past few decades. Hypocrisy is rife

BTW, I'm a stone-cold Conservative and Republican, I supported the action against Iraq given the perceived threats of WMD, but the paranoia coming from the right on this I find to be extremely dangerous.

 

JOHNWERNEKEN

8:47 PM ET

September 4, 2011

your point is?

America in its rise saw almost everbody exploited badly along the way by the folks in charge, paricularly Native Americans and Blacks, but also women children workers and just about everyone around to some degree. So what that alwas happens as countries rise. Once they are as modern as say South Korea they have a choice. I have no problem when our choices sucked, as generally something like that went with historical conditions. NOW I think we mostly (last 100 years) are making better choices. And I think one right choice for now is to put proper preparation for war as our top national prioity, it is the first duty of any government or of any leadership group for that matter, to defend whatever they are the leaders of.

 

SWORDOFDAMOCLES

10:02 PM ET

September 4, 2011

China Buildup

@ Bing520:

Ah, the usual lazy moral equivalency of imperialist era USA to the Third Reich. It would be funny, if it wasn't such a depressing commentary on the dearth of serious thought which characterizes much of modern liberalism.

So, by your logic the US should navel-gaze because of some perceived 'evils' the US perpetrated in... the Spanish-American war? Really?

 

BING520

12:13 PM ET

September 5, 2011

China Buildup

To prepare for a war because we speculate our neighbor might be preparing a war is a dangerous enterprise because it promps all involved into an action of war preparation and in anticipation of a war. American has been constantly upgrading its military force for the past 3 decades while implicitly and expressly denying others a right to do the same.

Now we are facing a prospect of reducing our military spending due to our deficit issue. Many people are worried and advocate instead an increase of military spending due to a alleged increasse in likehood of a war with China. This militant proclivity of the US and American people after WW II must be restrained.

Those who cite with alacrity the incident of Neville Chamberlain's dealing with Hitler as a quintessence of a reason behind perpetual war preparation in the guise of ceaseless military buildup and upgrade are misapplying a historic reason. We should acknowledge that not everyone we dislike is a potential Hitler and that in many an instance we have avoided a war by diplomacy and that the WW I was in large part caused by the unncessary preparation of war and anticipation of war by many European countries.

The obstinate proclivity of threatening others with a possibility of war to intimidate our opponents into submission to our will has proven to be in our national politic and mentality. Remember how many time our leaders said in public that our military option is not off the table befor a serous negotiation? We need to start to make some change.

 

FREETRADER

2:29 PM ET

September 9, 2011

China Expat -

Why do you assume that people who are concerned about China are 'Republicans'? As a matter of fact, it has been the Republican party that is the most consistent freind of China; the Democrats are the ones always bleating on about human rights (which makes China very angry, by the way).

Anyway, there is no 'hyprocrisy' involved in supported the democratic governments of Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore etc., etc., who are undertandably concerned about the PRC's new bullying attitude. To avoid an Asian arms race, the US has to stay involved and maintain a cross-Pacific alliance. If China feels threated by that, it is only because it restricts them from doing more of the local bullying that they feel that they have some 'right' to do, as inheritors of great Chinese civilization. Putting aside the nutcase example of North Korea (itself a client state of the PRC) ny tension in the Western Pacific is due to one actor only, and that is the PRC.

 

PUBLICUS

1:39 AM ET

September 19, 2011

BING520 & Rhetoric

The United States learned from the insatiable European thirst for vengeance demanded in the 1919 Treaty of Versailles, and from the consequences of an inconclusive armistice at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month (isn't it too bad for the strangely symmetrical European tribes the year wasn't 1911?), the US and allies in WWII demanded unconditional surrender, then went on to reconstruct Germany and Japan with a new constitution and a model of civilization based on the European Enlightenment and its direct descendant, the Constitution of the United States.

The past 100 years have been better and more enlightened than the previous 10,000 years; the past 50 years more so. China has had nothing to do with creating the broad sweep of improvements to human civilization we have witnessed during the past 500 years. China in its current incarnation as the CCP-PRC dynasty shouts at us that its stasis makes it the most reactionary force in the contemporary world. It is Beijing that called the Nobel Peace Prize Committee a "bunch of clowns" after it awarded its 2010 prize to the imprisoned Dr. Liu Xiaobo, who advocates democracy in China by peaceful evolutionary means, thus making Beijing the only government presently to have a Nobel Peace Laureate imprisoned.

It's proper to respect people who can and do learn and it's proper to disrespect people who are incapable of learning except to be ever more diabolical and unyielding.

 

ALEXBC

1:37 PM ET

September 3, 2011

A Good Article, But...

You miss the mark with this segment:

"We know, of course, that China owns $1.5 trillion worth of U.S. Treasury bills and thus has the U.S. economy by the short hairs; that China refuses to significantly revalue the renminbi and thus retains its colossal imbalance in trade with the United States; and that China has begun to buy American real estate and other assets (including, perhaps, the Los Angeles Dodgers). "

China's UST bill holdings are a sign of its own economic fragility and its status as a de facto American colony, rather than a harbinger of its dominance over America.

Commentators forget that relations between creditor and debtor nations are not like relations between a bank and a delinquent borrower. That is, the debtor nation holds all the cards because it has what Michael Pettis has called the "scarcest commodity in the world": demand.

http://mpettis.com/2011/08/some-predictions-for-the-rest-of-the-decade/

China has massive UST holdings because it needs the US bond market to recycle its trade surpluses. China is so reliant on the US that, were one to strip away all Sino-American trade, China would run a trade deficit. The RMB is, for all purposes, a red USD...stronger economies do not fix the value of their currencies to that of a weaker one.

China's refusal to revalue the RMB isn't that much of a concern to the US in the long run. Undervalued currency regimes are classic precursors to inflation and economic collapse:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/28824145/GMO-White-Paper-China

The idea that the US will go "bankrupt" due to defense spending really is far-fetched, given how big US GDP is and how easily the US can finance all of its obligations. The only way for America to go bankrupt is for to willfully do so.

 

FREETRADER

2:46 PM ET

September 9, 2011

Alex BC -

Perfect comment, excactly on point, to which I don't need to add much. Economic ignorance is rife these days.

One thing I would comment on is that you imply, but don't state directly, that the massive Treasury holdings of the PRC result from their manipulation of their currency; the articifically high trade surplus is in effect a subsidy provided by the people of China (who of course, have no say in these matters) to the export sector. This results in an accumulation of US dollars that have no where to go except into Treasuries. You are correct that this dislocation reflects China's vulnerability, not strength.

China will stop buying Treasuries when it lets its currency float vis a vis the rest of the world; which is to say, probably never. Unless, once the economic ponzi scheme starts to collapse, some real reforms are initiated.

This is not to say the US doesn't have massive problems that need to be sorted out, only that the the Treasuries held by China is not one of them.

 

URGELT

4:23 PM ET

September 3, 2011

I agree with some of the

I agree with some of the other commenters. Capabilities, not intentions, are the framework for war planning. It has to be this way; intentions can change on a dime. Knowing China is not eager to seek a conflict with the US - today - is reassuring, and puts diplomacy front and center. But military planners can't lose sight of capabilities, ever.

But there isn't really much to worry about there, either, for the next ten years at least. China has some very good weapons systems under development, but is far from fielding most of them in useful numbers.

And even ten years out, a contest between China and the US would be unequal, unless economic catastrophe forces the US to retreat from the Pacific basin and retire its carrier groups, subs and overseas air bases. (Which isn't impossible, I suppose.)

In that time frame, China might - maybe - have three operational carrier groups at a capability level approximately equal to US Navy carrier groups in the 1970's. If you're a quibbler, you might pull that forward into the 1980's.

Its submarines are more troubling, because submarines are always more troubling. It's a mostly diesel fleet, but that should not cause relief: though slower, a diesel sub can be very damn quiet for limited periods. They can gum up chokepoints and make life very difficult for enemy carrier groups trying to close with the mainland, or even stage attacks in our home ports, though it wouldn't necessarily be easy to do.

Long-range ballistic missiles targeted at our carriers is some cause for concern, too; they may force us to operate further from the theater of operations. But it's fair to say that we don't actually know how effective Chinese ballistic missiles will be against carriers, even with satellite targeting assistance.

Against land targets, they're possibly more of a concern. But if using only conventional warheads, maybe not so much, eh? Delivering a few thousand kilograms of explosives more or less on target could do some damage, but you can't sink an island, and it's an expensive way to use up missiles that are more valuable as a nuclear deterrent.

It's only when a conflict goes nuclear that those missiles become truly important. Chinese leaders won't want a nuclear conflict any more than US leaders, I suspect. In any case, planning for a nuclear war is a completely different animal (and not very much fun). Let's stay conventional for this discussion.

New designs for Chinese aircraft are interesting, but there's little chance that large numbers of fifth generation aircraft will get very far from China's own coastline within ten years. They have no overseas bases; their carriers (3?) won't be able to carry many into the teeth of US carrier groups; they don't really have much in-air refueling capability, which is hard to do; and they are a long way from producing any real quantity of them. They could hurt Japan, South Korea or Taiwan with them, but they can do that with older aircraft.

Face it. China is setting itself up as a regional, not global, power. And that's to be expected; they're an economic powerhouse with interests to protect in their region. They won't mind the extra political clout that comes with being a regional military player, but there are important limits to its military capabilities when it comes to a Pacific war.

Looking further out, though, the balance of power might shift. I don't know if America is entering a period of economic decline. It's possible. If economics forces us to retreat from the Pacific basin, a power vacuum will occur, and the Chinese might very well be in the best position to capitalize on it.

I would not look to the regional nations to take up much slack. Japan is definitely in decline; South Korea is already about as militarized as it could possibly be, and lacks any real ability to project power from its shores; Australia is an economic and military pygmy; Indonesia and other regional powers are struggling with considerable poverty and are militarily weak. Of them all, Viet Nam is potentially the most pugnacious, but it's not an economic powerhouse, either, and it also lacks an ability to project force beyond its shores. But over the next ten years, I don't think any of that matters much. China's power will be at home, without much force projection capability.

Where it gets interesting is much further out, say 20-50 years or so. As interested as China is in the South China sea for its resources, that isn't the ripe plum sitting near to hand for what remains a primarily land-based power. The ripe plum is sparsely-populated, wonderfully resource-rich Siberia. I can think of at least one scenario where China might be tempted to go after that plum: a Russian civil war, in which China persuades one of the warring factions to invite it in, perhaps on the pretext of securing nuclear weapons.

I'm sure the Chinese leadership knows the risks and dangers of such an adventure. But the reward is astronomical: it would propel China to the top of the world order and it would satiate domestic appetites for wealth generation that are unsatisfied at present for most Chinese. They have the people to exploit Siberia as no other nation could.

Back to intentions. Reunification with Taiwan is just a matter of time (possibly a long time), and China seems contented to wait for it. The South China Sea imbroglio will be settled primarily through diplomatic means, with demonstrations and confrontations at sea happening, but minor. In the near term, China poses little threat to us, unless they decide to dump their dollars, which would probably trigger runaway inflation in the US; not a happy scenario. (That might happen anyway, though, and the Chinese might be more victims of it than beneficiaries.)

Overall, we should be pleased that the near future between the US and China will be a diplomatic, not a warfighting, future. But in the longer term, we'd be wise to consider many different military scenarios starring our friends in China. Just to be ready. Just in case.

You can be certain they're doing the same. It doesn't mean either of us wants war, or that planning will lead us to war. But wars do happen; and if China decides to risk everything against the chance of grabbing Siberia, a world war is a likelihood, unless America becomes so economically weak that it can't respond at all.

 

ROMAN GIL

3:47 PM ET

September 6, 2011

America is Bankrupt, We Are Living on Borrowed Money

It's painful to abandon the crack pipe, come down from the high and face reality. We are broke and we'll need all our remaining resources and a political miracle to survive as even a Third World country. 51% of American households are too poor to pay income taxes. The bottom 50% of American households own just 2.5% of national wealth. America is being overrun with over a million illegal alien invaders every year that believe that half our land belongs to the Mexican people. Two million legal aliens are imported every year to a ruined, overpopulated country that lacks the resources to support even its present population. We are ruled by a criminal moronic oligarchy that cannot even maintain the nation that it's looting at least solvent and that gives away debt money in foreign aid.

We are in a state of permanent war that will end sooner or later with our demise as a solvent entitity.

We cannot afford foreign affair pipe dreams. Defend your own land from the illegal alien invaders.

Roman Gil
http://roman-gil1.blogspot.com

 

DAVELNAF

7:36 PM ET

September 3, 2011

What is really driving China?

China puts on a face of being outwardly capitalistic, but it is the communist party that dictates policy to its economic managers and factory managers. Only a few decades ago its great strength was (and still largely is) cheap labor. Since then it has played the game of obtaining others’ technology, and more recently it has added restrictions on how others may benefit from its market—a better word is system. And in even more recent times it has added to this list manipulation of its currency. The entire process has taken place incrementally and with no great leaps forward.

Now, the regime is incrementally building up its military, step by step—the same plan, the same way of doing things. And behind this, as always, is the communist party. It is an entity that people (Westerners in particular) can readily see but do not really want to see, and for good reason. During the short history of the existence of communist parties anywhere and everywhere every single one of them were criminal in their behavior. And at the beating heart of China today is, quite simply, a criminal enterprise and that is doing everything it humanly can to get and steal more and more of what it wants. China’s theft of intellectual property and other peoples’ technology is part of it; and besides having a mechanism to facilitate its acquisition it takes full advantage of other peoples’ apparent naiveté in regard to its behavior.

Beijing’s military is not being built up just to protect China. It is being built up for the day when it can add it to its arsenal of things that facilitate the transfer of more of the worlds’ wealth to China. One can easily fend off counterarguments to this by pointing out that the regime’s history of belligerent noises has been substantial and cannot easily be ignored. China might have very little battlefield experience, but aggressors throughout history have always overestimated themselves. Only a fool would say that they are doing all of this as part of their peaceful rise. It is all part of the same package.

 

CHINA EXPAT

9:48 AM ET

September 4, 2011

And only a fool

that knows nothing about Chinese history nor has ever set foot in China would write this article or suggest that China will one day become outwardly belligerent.

In 3,000 years of history, China has never sought to expand it's borders.

Any areas that we would view as aggressive to neighbors or internally (Tibet, Taiwan, Spratly's) are based on claims that are older than the United States. We may disagree with them, but the fact is this is a nation that is largely inward focused.

And as much as their military is rapidly developing, it is still nothing compared to our own, and our spending continues to outpace by multiples theirs in absolute terms.

It's articles like this and commentary by people who have made no attempt to understand other nations, and instead view things from an insular and one-sided lens, that are the greatest threat to a war with China.

The issue is that there the same paranoid elements in China who think the US is aggressively belligerent (and they have a point - we are, given an unmatched history of preemptive strikes, wars in foreign countries).

If you get those people and the people who wrote this article and who are commenting on this board together, then perhaps, we will go to war.

May God allow the wiser, more informed, and more measured voices on both sides to prevail. God help us if they don't.

 

JOHNWERNEKEN

8:49 PM ET

September 4, 2011

not much point in understanding others

except their capabilities and actions.

 

HITOMI

10:00 PM ET

September 4, 2011

And only a fool completely unable to reflect upon himself

Would claim China has never sought to expand its borders in 3000 years. Absurdity of all absurdities.

 

JIMB82

11:46 PM ET

September 4, 2011

 

ZIPPYTHECHIMP

5:39 PM ET

September 5, 2011

China's never sought to

China's never sought to expand its borders.... sorry Charley, try the 1979 border war with Vietnam, you invaded them. Tibet, 1959, China invaded a country which was independent. Try the occupation of Vietnam which lasted 1,000 years and ended in 938 AD. Chinese troops took part in the two failed invasions of Japan. Shall I go on?

Might want to try reading a history (non-Communist) book before you try those arguments again. That stuff they taught you in school was probably mostly lies.

 

FREETRADER

12:29 AM ET

September 11, 2011

re: China Expat

China Expat, I read your post laughing. You are presumably Chinese, so are you so ignorant of Chinese history to assume that China was formed at the beginning of time in its present borders?

China is an Empire. They have done a pretty good job of assimilating, or exterminating, the miniorities contained in their borders, but they are an empire like any other. And to use China's history, which is second to none in bloodshed, as some sort of evidence of future pacifist behavior both ignorant and naive.

 

STAN C

7:36 AM ET

September 4, 2011

I really don't understand why

I really don't understand why people worry about a powerful China. The days of the US being the world's only super power are numbered, and China could possibly become more powerful in time. But that does not mean that they want to fight and there is no reason why things won't work from home if we can all get along. If we have learned anything from the Cold War it's that if you get in the mindset that someone is an enemy, they very quickly become one.

 

JOHNWERNEKEN

8:51 PM ET

September 4, 2011

good grief the other guys started the cold war

as any fool could see they would once Fascism was defeated. And the best way to avoid war is to prepare for it but not to try to practice it.

 

LMADSTER

10:00 AM ET

September 4, 2011

The Rise of China is a Warning...

Conservatives and Liberals share more than a common angst. They share a common focal point for their angst—China. The challenge of China is certainly not our only problem, but it does illustrate how far and how fast the United States has fallen behind.

While America wallows in its existential uncertainty, China is enjoying soaring self-confidence in its meteoric rise as a great nation. While America’s trajectory is bent decisively downward, China’s is rising on all fronts:

• China is now America’s largest single banker.
• China has gone on a global buying spree to lock up the long-term production output of strategic resources from mines, oil and gas wells, and farms around the world.
• China is now the number-one exporter, having surpassed Germany in 2010.
• The Chinese military is today the world’s largest—2.5 million strong and growing—and has become more capable, more mobile, and more global. Once limited to just its territorial waters, China's navy is now patrolling the Pacific and Indian Oceans. China is investing in a modern fleet of nuclear-powered ballistic submarines, long-range missiles, aircraft carriers, and anti-satellite weapon systems that can enable China to project power beyond the South China Sea.
• Unencumbered by human rights concerns or other western cultural norms of propriety, the Chinese government shame-lessly provides financial and military aid to dictators in re-source-rich countries in Asia, Africa, and South America that because of their human rights records are politically ostracized by Western governments.

When President Barack Obama visited China in 2009, the Chinese flagrantly censored his public appearances, using their new power as America's banker to pressure the President into abandoning the usual practice of U.S. presidents holding open press conferences and Q&A sessions. Then, later that same year, at the failed Copenhagen Climate Summit, the Chinese premier, Wen Jinbao, made Obama wait like a valet for him to arrive at a pre-scheduled meeting before finally refusing to meet the President at all and sending a junior bureaucrat in his stead.

The economic ascent of communist China is roughly propor-tional to America's economic decline. It's as if all the wealth that America has created and accumulated since World War II has been siphoned off in internet-time across the Pacific into China. And in an alarming refrain of the famous communist boast that “the last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope,” we sold them the siphon hose and gave them the internet.

The relocation of U.S. intellectual capital, companies, factories, and jobs from the United States to China was no accident. They were pushed by our political class. Most countries today have institutionalized industrial strategies to protect their industries and keep their jobs. But the American political class practices a national de-industrialization policy where each and every product manufac-tured in the United States is made globally non-competitive by the embedded costs of the following factors:

• Healthcare: An 11 percent healthcare “hidden tax,” such as the additional $2000 per-car healthcare expense, built into every U.S. manufactured product.
• Wage-Based Payroll Taxes: A 7.65 percent payroll tax em-bedded into every U.S. manufactured product.
• Corporate Income Taxes: A 35 percent corporate tax rate—the highest of any country—embedded into every U.S. man-ufactured product. Additionally, unlike every other country, the United States levies corporate taxes on worldwide income thereby penalizing American companies for operating abroad and compelling American companies to relocate their head-quarters and capital in more tax-friendly countries.
• Oversized Tort Settlements and Liability Insurance: The cost of Powerball-sized judgments, out-of-court settlements, and nuisance law suits brought by predatory trial lawyers.
• Compliance with IRS Mandates I: The costs of complying with a burdensome and incomprehensible federal tax structure.
• Compliance with IRS Mandates II: The costs of complying with the new tax code provisions imposed by ObamaCare.

After an indictment like that, you'd think the United States would be rethinking its policies toward Chinese mercantilism and American de-industrialization. You'd be wrong.

....Above text from the book "Let's Make A Deal: A Hail Mary Pass to Get America Off the Bench and Back in the Game"

Healthcare-for-All? It’s in there. Balanced budget? It’s in there. Carbon tax? It’s in there. Rational taxation? Amnesty? Border Security? Limited government? Social Security and Medicare solvency? It’s all in there; it’s all paid for and it’s all scalable and optimized for economic growth.

Blog: letsmakeadeal-thebook.com/

Facebook: facebook.com/pages/Lets-Make-A-Deal-The-Book/143298165732386

Twitter: twitter.com/#!/lmadster

Amazon: amazon.com/Lets-Make-Deal-Jon-Mitchell/dp/0982975716

B&N.com: barnesandnoble.com/w/lets-make-a-deal-jon-mitchell/1031386165

Or just Google "LMADster"

 

JOHNWERNEKEN

8:52 PM ET

September 4, 2011

YEP ur rite

I agree

 

MUSNAUHT

10:31 AM ET

September 4, 2011

The lack of full transparency in defense policies...

The lack of full transparency in defense policies of the Communist Beijing for the region and the International Community as a threat that will further imperil stability in the world’s societies.Since 1989-2011 Beijing continues increase military spending yearly.Status qou China has created into hasten and opaque an arms force of submarines and warships in Asia's largest.Military build up of Air Force China adds hundreds of fighters, can be compared with F-15 and F-16's America. J-15 Flying Shark, compared as same grade with USNF-18 Super Hornet very near future.The Chinese military has successfully tested a new fighter - the J-20 appears to have stealth capabilities, avoid the radar,as same as F-35 Joint Strike. At the same time Beijing is deploying a powerful ballistic missile force and range weapons other remote capability extends beyond the shore combat. Among the most prominent is the anti ship ballistic missile Dong-Feng DF-21D, (ASBM), the missiles that China called carrier-killer missiles to most advanced aircraft carrier in the world, powerful toperdoes and many other smart mines. In addition,China has many kinds of biological weapons are extremely dangerous unpredictable consequences of all . As same as strategies and tactics of Beijing's military is continuing innovative, diversified abruptly at any convention and is the country's fraudulent. Moreover, when China successfully imposed upon the world through their colonial strategy will ultimately controlled by Beijing's desire to top target at all costs to gain more control than most valuable resources of the earth and the hearts of their greedy desire to continue to develop and expand comprehensive until then, they are willing to deteriorate or and mercilessly to destroy the economy of any country in the world.Therefore,china as a"nationalist and authoritarian" would be a threat to the global picture is the reasonable attitude in this new century future. To challenge Beijing's military can be interpreted in recent cases by ....“Leading Diplomatic Priority” beijing's vice foreign minister, evil-speaking: "I believe some countries are now playing with fire. And I hope the US won't be burned by this fire."- Better beijing's vice foreign minister should remember ‘The world believe china-copycat are now playing with fire. And the world hope china-copycat should behavioural before won’t be burned by this fire. Our planet do not allow any ugly expansionist of barbarian handler as same as evil peoples and evil country must sweep away on this planet as turn to ash in early 21st century as it should.

 

VALWAYNE

12:54 PM ET

September 4, 2011

The Obama Disaster

I'm in the camp that is praying that China's intentions are mostly benign. Not because I really believe it. History doesn't give us much encouragement in that regard when the balance of power shifts. The U.S. should be working to insure that the military balance of power does not shift decisively in China's favor. However, with Obama's failed policies and failed leadership inflicting terrible damage on the U.S. economy the ability, and/or willingness of our political leaders to maintain the balance of power in our favor, or at least stable isn't just in doubt, it likely doesn't exist. We can only hope that we can replace Obama in 2012 and reverse the decline of our nation before it reaches a real tipping point against our nation! If Obama is reelected the worst case scenario will unfold!

 

ZIPPYTHECHIMP

5:43 PM ET

September 5, 2011

Yes, you could say the

Yes, you could say the liquidation a good part of Al Qaeda's top leadership is a failure (such as Osama getting shot in the face). And all that damage that started in 2008 was just.... oh, before Obama's time. So please, unless you're going to back up the histrionics with some proof, you might want to stick to the less taxing, yet always stimulating, Fox News.

 

HARD226

3:17 PM ET

September 4, 2011

China as International Opponent

Rommel's definition of surprise is applicable. It is not defined by unexpectedness. It depends upon the ability to react effectively to a situation whether expected or not. We do know that China's substantial abandonment of ecomomic communism has unleashed the economic energy of the Chinese people. We know that China has asserted illegitimate or exaggerated international rights in Southeast Asia w/respect to Taiwan and local ocean waters. Her posture has frightened or intimidated the United States and her neighbors-in significant measure due to lack of confidence in the coherence and continuity of United States as an ally and possibly only as a nation in an intermittant posture of policy congruence. I suppose it's possible for the Chinese to sell on a massive scale United States securities. So could the holders of other nations. To whom? each other? in what currency? to the US for dollars to retire them at a steep discount? artificially to watch them rise from the sell-off? to discount the US economy and not as some hostile move toward us? as an expensive and hostile way to harm the US by creating some level of disruption in the markets? As a military power China cannot challenge US naval and air forces; and wont for a significant period of time. What, however, in company with all of Asia? Eurosia? some portion of the Americas? I wouldn't predict just how the resulting jockeying would play out. The harm would come along well before as perceptions change and confidence in American morale and commitment wither. I've spent a considerable number of hours at present arms on a parade field to the music of the Star Spangled Banner. At 19 or 20, I asked myself while silently reciting, "Oh, say does that star spangled banner yet wave o'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?", what was the object of the question? I concluded, and have been haunted sense, that it was not asking if the Stars and Stripes waved as our national flag; rather, it asked over whom and what it waved over?

 

JOHNWERNEKEN

8:40 PM ET

September 4, 2011

OF COURSE we should roll back China

OF COURSE we should roll back China. One gauges intentions by actions i.e. capabilities no one pays for this chit without the fear or intention of using it. And the darn economy will take care of itself, as long as the Government if it insists on trying to fix something (bad idea given track record) it ought to confine itself to physical security, a stable currency, a predictable system of laws, and AFTER that, maybe a little assistance to the private sector on education, research, infrastructure, and exploration.

If we don't PREPARE for war against anyone who COULD threaten us, we will find one some or all of them doing just that, and we will have some war for sure, only on enemy terms and timing. Such should be obvious to any fool not obsessed with short-term self-interest or the idiot-ology of one of America's two dominant political parties (i.e. the two competing Unions of Professional Politicians).

 

NICOLAS19

4:00 AM ET

September 5, 2011

what about accomodation?

I'm getting sick of this Cold War-9/11 style paranoid rhetoric. How about dealing with adversaries like normal nations do, i.e. not war?

The talk is about China's "over-broad assertion" of its rights. Over what? Over the South-China sea. It has conflict of interest with Vietnam, and other smaller states. Now, why does the US try to play arbiter in this issue? Isn't that the "over-broad assertion" of their rights, interfering with issues, playing a giving-and-taking god half a globe away?

The US has one problem with the rest of the world: they dare to have voices. They dare to have agendas, interests other than the well-being of the US. China is becoming a great power, it acts like a great power. The US can't deal with it, they want to wage war, destroy the adversary, "nobody can be strong but us".

It is the US who brings the world to the brink of another WW. This is exactly the kind of warmongering rhetoric that triggered the two Iraqi wars, the alienation of Iran, the huge resentment toward the US in the Arab world. Why is is so hard to make a deal with other nations? When Obama goes to China, he gives lectures on human rights (while he's waging 3 wars). When he goes to the Arab world, he gives lectures on democracy (while occupying 2 countries) and makes empty promises (which he never makes good on). The "rest of the world" is always treated like barbarians at the gates, scolded, lectured, debunked, slaughtered, and sometimes used as a tool to frighten everybody into obedience/war frenzy. Sickening. The American-era seems to be ending, and I hope I'll live to see what comes next.

 

SKZION

11:07 AM ET

September 5, 2011

The problem of Islam is diminishing?

I was surprised by Traub's dismissal of Islamic terrorism (which one here seems to have noticed). China is a malevolent state, yes. Frankly, though, the intelligentsia have been talking about it since WW2. China cannot, however, cause western powers to rot from within as Islam can. Around 1/3 of US Muslims are sympathetic to jihad via terrorism, and geniuses like Traub do not notice.

 

SKZION

11:10 AM ET

September 5, 2011

correction

It should have read "which no one here seems to have noticed." Sorry.

 

STEFAN STACKHOUSE

3:07 PM ET

September 5, 2011

The US can't afford anything more or less than realism

Given our protracted economic and other problems, the US can't afford to be more or less than realistic about its long term grand strategy.

First, we have to be realistic about China and its capabilities. China is at or near the top of list of nations in terms of population, geographic area, and GDP. It also has an exceptionally long history as one of the leading civilizations in the world. The past century or so has been an exception, and it is now in the process of resuming its natural place among the top rank of nations. Of course they are going to develop one of the strongest and most powerful militaries in the world. Why wouldn't they? Thus, we need to accept the expansion of Chinese military capabilities as a reality to which we must adjust.

Second, we must also accept the reality that it was only an exceptional and passing moment when the US was the sole global superpower with no rivals. That is not the normal order of things. We have faced one or more potential rivals for most of our history, and will for most of our future. Whether or not we like that state of affairs is irrelevant. That is the reality we face, and it will come to no good end if we try to either deny reality or prevent the inevitable.

Thirdly, while it may be somewhat important to attempt to identify the intentions of the Chinese leadership, it would be a mistake to put too much stock in this. Even if we can correctly discern those intentions today, they can change with startling speed. While correctly identifying an adversary's intentions can be of vital importance at the immediate tactical level, it is almost useless for the long-term strategic level. We are thus right to focus on the increase in capabilities of the PRC, and we must adjust our own long-term stragety of R&D, procurement, and force levels in light of those capabilities.

None of this means that a conflict with the PRC is inevitable. In fact, leaving aside for the moment the status of the other countries in the region, the best way to assure that the US and the PRC do not go to war is to assure that the US maintains its own capabilities to a sufficient extent to assure that the Chinese leadership never becomes overconfident in their capabilities.

The fly in the ointment, of course, are those other countries in the region. It wasn't the naval arms race between the UK and Germany that started WWI, but a blow up over a highly peripheral territory that didn't even directly concern either of them. If the US and the PRC ever get into a war, it is going to because of a conflict in Korea, or Taiwan, or Japan, or the Phillippines. This is the theater where intentions start to matter a lot more than capabilities, particularly if one side misunderstands the intentions of the other. WWI famously started as a sequence of such misunderstandings of intentions between major powers relevant to peripheral and marginal territories. It could happen again, this time in East Asia.

Can such a conflict be avoided? To a very large extent it is up to us. We need to have a very hard-headed national conversation about where our national interests really lie. How much are we really willing to put at risk to assure that S. Korea, Japan, the Phillippines, and Taiwan remain in our sphere and out of the PRC's? We need to understand that a major war against the PRC in this day and age would be far worse than anything we have previously experienced, even if a nuclear exchange is avoided (which is doubtful). Brave talk sounds good, but the potential costs of trying to maintain the status quo need to be weighed against the alternative. Could the US continue to exist as an independent and free republic if the periphery of East Asia were to shift from the US to the PRC's sphere? We certainly would be marginally less secure, but we would still have the huge Pacific Ocean separating us from them. The resources of North America are certainly sufficient to enable us to maintain a strong enough navy and air force to defend ourselves against a PRC that dominated all of East Asia.

This is the strategic decision which will sooner or later confront the US: pull in our defensive lines and redeploy to the Pacific (thus avoiding direct conflict with the PRC and probably seting up a long-term sustainable balance between the two powers), or try to hold the periphery of East Asia, with a high risk of an eventual war and permanent national ruination?

 

DIVULGANDOMASSAGISTA

6:34 PM ET

September 5, 2011

I disagree

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JACKINTHEBOX

12:06 AM ET

September 6, 2011

Too soon too late

Let's think about it! The US has already started weakening China due to the widespread and influence of the Arab spring which ultimately affects China's external desires, because it keeps their government busy trying to look after their domestic problems.
However, the US has been too busy wasting its money on non-state actors that are seeking to bankrupt this country, and sadly many Americans are benefiting from the bankruptcy of this country by stuffing their fat pockets with the government's $.
Clearly, the policies and laws that have worked for this country in the past must be changed to accommodate the future and the upcoming hurdles. Simply, look at the primitive regulations of the financial sector that Wall Street love and worship!
Finally, the US must stick to its values that made this country the greatest democracy on earth. Today we're living in a country where Americans don't mind going after each other in an uncivilized matter for the sake of extreme ideologies that were nonexistent during the glory days of this country. Centricity and diversity is what we need today, versus bigotry and selfishness.

 

JEFFREY PALIAK

10:45 AM ET

September 6, 2011

Its too late for the US

What strategy will the US adopt? Pull everyone out of Afghanistan and deploy them to the pacific to avoid conflicts with the PRC? Or will they try to hold a periphery between them and Asia which has a high risk of war?

It will be interesting to see in the upcoming months what the US will do.

Posted via AndroidTablet

 

XTIANGODLOKI

11:00 AM ET

September 6, 2011

Proposed Defense budget cuts created a bunch of alarmists

It's no coincidence the increasing amount of reports from the "think tanks" warning everyone of China is also timed with the formation of the "super congress" to discuss how to cut the US budget. It's also not surprising these "think tanks" typically sponsored by industry lobbyists, are warning about facts have been well known. The aim of articles like this is to influence the existing "super congress" to minimalize cuts to the defense. Because, without a little nationalism here and a little scare there, most Americans would much rather see their money go to healthcare or infrastructure than wars in foreign nations. Then you get the reality that even if the US continues to spend more money to deal with China militarily, much of that money would be borrowed from China. In preparing to fight China militarily, the US will only fall further into China's control economically.

So China has ambitions to be a regional hegemony, if they have learned from USSR it will only bankrupt China. More importantly, how does this affect the US? How does maintaining military across the world benefit the US? If anything US military hegemony is what is bankrupting this country. A lot of people don't like the Chinese, but the US is hardly more popular in the world. In countries like Korea and Japan you see far more anti-US protests than anti-China protests for a good reason: the locals see US military as a problem and not a solution. So why do so many Americans think so? Because they have been brainwashed by the defense lobbyists.

 

ROMAN GIL

3:35 PM ET

September 6, 2011

The Decline of America and the Rise of China

We are no longer even a second class power because our military is based on borrowed money and over 50% are contractors (DOD statistic)

We lack the military and financial power to do more than defend North America and we are able to do this only because we have two oceans separating us from the other continents.

In the past 10 years, the DemoPublicans enabled globalists to ship out 57,000 American industrial plants and over 6 million jobs to China and other cheap labor countries so that they could profit from $100 a month wages. Now the American economy is only 9% industrial, much of it is composed of mere assembly operations for foreign parts.

The USA is no longer and independent nation. It must borrow over $1 trillion annually for its huge federal government and depends on imports of everything even Apple IPads and phones made in China.

The total value of all corporate stocks listed in the American stock exchanges was just $15.3 trillion six months ago. This is not enough to pay off the national debt. The total value of American government and private assets are just $77 trillion and also not enough to cover all liabilities.

The 'global market" promised by the globalists destroyed America and Europe. It will take many years to rebuild what was destroyed. The politicians have no ideas other than the status quo. In my blog, I explain how we failed and offer a 28 point program to restore America before we become another Haiti or Somalia.

Roman Gil
http://roman-gil1.blogspot.com

 

FSILBER

11:36 AM ET

September 7, 2011

What exactly is the danger?

The world told us what it thought of America's leadership and power when Bush was President. So what is at risk for us if we let China have its way?

 

VERMICIOUS KNID

6:13 PM ET

September 8, 2011

China and natural resources

China is an extremely large and rapidly growing country with relatively limited resources. This gives them a motive for increasingly throwing their weight around in the world. Its bullying behavior in the South China Sea, believed to contain oil and other resources, is partly due to this. As China becomes more powerful and also more resource-hungry we can only expect more of this.

This is not the first time we have had an up-and-coming large industrial power that was resource-starved and politically authoritarian. It would also not be the first time it ended badly.

 

LOE

5:45 PM ET

September 13, 2011

Keep Watch!

China’s ever-increasing maritime power is making its neighbors and the U.S raise their eye-brows in suspicion and conjecture. China’s strengthening of its military or economy need not translate into a threat to U.S and the America should not turn this whole situation yet again into another cold war. With recession looming on its head, now is not the time for U.S to delude about the China’s mercantile prowess. U.S should silently continue witnessing the bird’s-eye-view of the China’s progress, its military activities and keep an eye on its diplomatic relations to strengthen their security like wobenzym n rather than actively indulging in warding off the perceived threat.

 

MARCUS_HOLCOM

11:50 AM ET

September 14, 2011

The Rise of China!!!

The rise of China will undoubtedly be one of the great dramas of the twenty-first century. China's extraordinary economic growth and active diplomacy are already transforming East Asia, and future decades will see even greater increases in Chinese power and influence. But exactly how this drama will play out is an open question. Will China overthrow the existing order or become a part of it? And what, if anything, can the United States do to maintain its position as China rises?

Some observers believe that the American era is coming to an end, as the Western-oriented world order is replaced by one increasingly dominated by the East. The historian Niall Ferguson has written that the bloody twentieth century witnessed "the descent of the West" and "a reorientation of the world" toward the East. Realists go on to note that as China gets more powerful and the United States' position erodes, two things are likely to happen: China will try to use its growing influence to reshape the rules and institutions of the international system to better serve its interests, and other states in the system -- especially the declining hegemony Affiliate Programs Review -- will start to see China as a growing security threat.

 

PUBLICUS

6:13 AM ET

September 19, 2011

India responds to the grabby Chinese

This news acticle from "UK Based Foreign Affairs" originating from Rueters News Service:

"Continuing growth of Indian and Chinese navies continue to create friction"

(Reuters) – A little over a fortnight before China conducted sea trials for its first aircraft carrier, an Indian naval ship slipped into the South China Sea.

INS Airavat, an amphibious assault vessel designed to launch troops on enemy beaches, was on a show-the-flag mission in July when it was challenged as it sailed from Vietnam’s Nha Trang port near the deep-water harbour of Cam Ranh Bay.

A caller identifying himself as an official of the Chinese navy warned the ship on an open radio channel that it was entering Chinese waters as it steamed toward the Vietnamese port of Haiphong, the Indian foreign ministry said.

Nothing happened, the ship sailed on, and both India and China have since played down the incident, with New Delhi saying the vessel was well within international waters in the South China Sea and that there was no confrontation.

China’s foreign ministry also dismissed the report, saying there was no truth to it.

But the news has stoked concern that the navies of the two rapidly growing Asian giants could be on a collision course as they seek to protect trade routes and lock in the supply of coal, minerals and other raw material from faraway lands.

The Airavat is part of a fleet based in the Andaman islands, nearer to Indonesia and Thailand than the Indian mainland, where New Delhi is spending $2 billion to set up a military command.

The islands are also the gateway to the Bay of Bengal, which is shared by India, resource-rich Myanmar, Bangladesh and western Thailand.

“It was a bit slow in the beginning, but the command is being strengthened now. It will become a premier base by 2015,” said a defence ministry official in New Delhi on the Andamans plan, launched under a “Look East” policy started in 2001.

“The movement of commercial shipping in the area is just as important to us as it is to others, including China,” said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

“If you have to, you can get to the South China Sea fairly quickly, you are sitting right there.”

India’s trade with East and Southeast Asia dwarfs that with Europe or the United States, and the country imports most of its much-needed edible oil, coal and minerals from Southeast Asia.

Beijing, concerned about the flow of its energy supplies, is seeking a chain of friendly ports in the Indian Ocean, stretching from Gwadar on the Pakistani coast to Chittagong in Bangladesh.

The Indian navy, worried about what it sees as Chinese encirclement at sea, is deepening defence ties with long-term partner Vietnam, and cautiously stepping up its presence in the South China Sea, whose mineral and gas resources are claimed by six countries, including China.

“While the Chinese do not consider the Indian Ocean to be India’s ocean or even India’s strategic backyard, they do consider the South and East China seas to be China’s seas,” said former Indian navy commander Probal Ghosh, now a senior fellow at Observer Research Foundation, a New Delhi think tank.

India and China have on the surface a friendly relationship, but the two nations fought a brief border war in 1962. China is close to Pakistan, India’s arch-enemy, while it has suspiciously eyed New Delhi’s warm ties with Vietnam.

S.D. Muni, a former Indian ambassador to Laos and now a visiting professor at the National University of Singapore, said he expected more flare-ups as the two expanding navies begin to rub against each other.

“They are getting bigger in size, extending their reach, probing each other’s defences,” he said.

Viewed from Beijing, India’s military has expanded its area of operations westward to the Persian Gulf and eastward to the Malacca Straits, encompassing the key sea lanes that three quarters of Chinese oil imports must transit.

“The Indian navy entering the South China Sea is a relatively new development,” said Zhao Gancheng, director of South Asia studies at the Shanghai Institute for International Studies. “I think it shows that the Indian navy is currently expanding its scope of activities.”

He said the navies of India and Vietnam had established a certain degree of cooperation, and carried out joint exercises. China and India, on the other hand, appeared to have little interaction with each other, increasing the risk of misunderstanding.

Traditionally, India’s navy has long been the biggest player in the Indian Ocean – after the United States – and it was the only Asian state to operate an aircraft carrier as far back as 1961.

That carrier has been retired but it has another one in service and two more on order, including one to be based in the eastern sector.

Media reports say the Indian navy is shifting focus from the western command, which faces Pakistan, to the eastern command and the Andamans. Its nuclear submarines will be based in the east, along with guided missile destroyers, stealth frigates and maritime patrol aircraft.

China, by contrast, is just starting out on a carrier task force, and analysts say it could be up to 10 years before it assembles a battleship group.

“The Indian navy is certainly the most ambitious and strategically significant of all the service arms,” said Shashank Joshi, an associate fellow at London’s Royal United Services Institute.

By Sanjeev Miglani

 

ALEXWORK

4:27 AM ET

September 16, 2011

Ways to go Still

"Realists go on to note that as China gets more powerful and the United States' position erodes, two things are likely to happen: China will try to use its growing influence to reshape the rules and institutions of the international system to better serve its interests, and other states in the system -- especially the declining hegemony..."

This is a long ways off. There are a ton of things the US and the West can do to maintain hegemony, or at least control over most world institutions (which would only change cataclysmically). Goal Setting

 

PUBLICUS

3:43 AM ET

September 19, 2011

WW I & the present scenarios

Having lived and worked in the PRC from 2007 into 2011 and having met the fenqing, I see that the Chinese overestimate themselves and underestimate their targeted enemy the United States (and of course Japan).

The CCP in Beijing actually believe they can militarily defeat the United States (and conveniently wipe Japan off the map in the process) without nuclear war. It is exactly this historically flawed and disastrous thinking that in the forseeable future shall cause nuclear holocaust.

The People's (Anti) Liberation Army (which includes the Navy and Air Force) believe they can destroy all US satellites whether government or privately owned, destroy completely all US cyber capabilities in the United States and globally, then defeat the US Navy on the high seas. Beijing believes this scenario is 100% viable and fully intend to execute it. The CCP-PRC Defense Minister until recently, PLA Air Force Gen Chi Haotian, wrote on June 6, 2006 (the 65th anniversary of D-Day), "The 20th century is the Chinese century. War is its midwife and will soon be upon us."

The closed minded elites of China and their CCP-created fenqing believe that by destroying the United States cleanly, i.e., without nuclear war (along with the Japanese devils), the Middle Kingdom can assume its rightful place as the center of the world with all other peoples/societies subjugated to their rightful place as tributary states of China. The Chinese have actively globalized their thousands year old view that only they in their Middle Kingdom come from the stars and that over thousands of years the remainder of humanity crawled out of the cesspools (of evolution).

Gen Chi has also stated that carefully targeted silent, and non-destructive of infrastructure, chemical warfare against the United States would eliminate 2/3 of the population, thus leaving as survivors enough Americans to enslave and to rule over with impunity.

The Chinese mind sees the United States as having recently come upon the world only to "disturb" it. The still ancient Chinese mind sees the advent of the United States as a mattter of great incovenience to the Middle Kingdom which, accordingly, soon will dispose of the United States in a quick and clean war (history is of course littered by 'quick and clean' wars, 1914-18 having been one!). The Chinese thus ensure the occurrence of the nuclear holicaust we managed to avoid during the Cold War. (The Soviet Russians were still Russians, i.e., headstrong but not so madly Chinese headstrong that they rejected detente or the doctrine of peaceful coexistence, which as Geo Kennan foresaw eventually led to the demise of the USSR. Kennan or no Kennan, the Chinese are certain the "temporary" advent of the United States will duely be terminated by the forces of the Middle Kingdom.)

* * * * * *

From the BBC, March 2010:

"Beijing Olympics. As the world settles down to watch the Games, war erupts deep in the Caucasus Mountains. Georgian rockets fly, Russian tanks roll - and Russian hackers storm Georgian websites.

"Some experts regard this as the first cyber war.

"We saw a military mobilisation by Moscow into South Ossetia accompanied by clearly orchestrated cyber attacks against the Georgian government's communication systems and the banking system," says Nigel Inkster, director of transnational threats and political risk at London think tank The International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS).

"While the exact level of Russia's cyber military organisation is not clear, and China does not have a formal cyber arm, the creation of USCyberCom is clearly a response to the two countries' "greatly increased activity in this arena", says Mr Inkster, a former deputy head of the British foreign intelligence agency MI6.

"So, are we witnessing the first steps in a new arms race?"

End of excerpts from BBC March, 2010.

* * * * * * *

And from Dr. Daniel Kuehl, professor at the U.S. National Defense University, speaking of the founding of the U.S. CyberCommand in 2010 outside of Washington: "Setting up USCyberCom is not simple and it's not done unless there are perceived to be very, very pressing reasons for doing so."

Additionally, in a further effort to convince Beijing that cyberwarfare against the United States would be futile and globally catastrophic, MIT Researcher Dr. Noah Shachtman published a three-part series in January 2008, "How China Loses the Coming Space War." The vital link is below, from which one can access the entire series by Dr. Shachtman:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008/01/inside-the-chin/

The Chinese are seriously mad.

 

TAYFA34

1:41 AM ET

September 29, 2011

Horizon is beatifull

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