The Generals Have No Clothes

Islamabad's generals have been sponsoring the deaths of Americans for years, and yet Obama does nothing. Why?

BY KAPIL KOMIREDDI | NOVEMBER 29, 2011

Pakistan is indignant about the killing of 25 of its troops in a NATO air raid on Saturday. The circumstances that led to the assault are still unknown, but Washington and Europe have expressed contrition and promised an investigation. Pakistan has every reason to feel angry. But after a suitable period of mourning, shouldn't the United States, in the interests of fairness if nothing else, ask the Pakistani army if it plans ever to apologize for -- or, at bare minimum, acknowledge -- its role in the deaths of hundreds of coalition forces and many more Afghan civilians?

At the start of the 21st century, the United States offered Pakistan a very straightforward ultimatum: Join us in the war against terrorism inaugurated by al Qaeda's attacks on 9/11 -- or find yourself bombed to the Stone Age. In the decade since, Pakistan has arguably been responsible for more American deaths than any other state on earth. Yet Pakistan has not only evaded prosecution for its crimes. In a staggering turn of events, its army has found its program of sponsoring the slaughter of American troops in Afghanistan by the Taliban and al Qaeda amply subsidized by Washington.

One of the most principled voices against the Pakistani army during this time belonged, ironically, to Islamabad's ambassador to Washington. Husain Haqqani was, to repurpose Nirad Chaudhuri's phrase about Pandit Nehru, not only Pakistan's representative to the United States but also the West's ambassador to Pakistan. His resignation, offered and accepted on Tuesday, was ostensibly precipitated by an op-ed last month in the Financial Times by Mansoor Ijaz, an American businessman of Pakistani descent who claimed that an unnamed Pakistani diplomat -- whom he later identified as Haqqani -- had conscripted him in a grand scheme to curb the Pakistani military's power. Together, he alleged, they crafted a memo in which a series of dramatic offers were made to Washington -- among them, the promise to end state patronage of terrorism -- in return for the Obama administration's help in reining in the generals. (Haqqani vigorously denies involvement.)

Inexplicably, Ijaz, the courageous anti-military conspirator, transformed, without a hint of irony, into the army's canary, imperilling Pakistan's besieged civilian government by volunteering transcripts of his alleged exchanges with Haqqani. Pakistan's rightwing media served as his bullhorn, devoting their pages and program to his endless revelations. (Hardly anyone in the West accorded serious attention to Ijaz -- a clownish Croesus addicted to self-elevating fantasies. If only the Clinton administration had given attention to his "deal" with the Sudanese government to extradite Osama bin Laden to the United States, he once bragged, 9/11 would have been averted.)

The author of a devastatingly frank history of Pakistan, Haqqani has the virtue of clarity: He is known to view the army as an impediment to progress in the region. Still, it is stupefying to imagine that a diplomat and scholar of his sophistication would have recruited a pestilent popinjay like Ijaz to deliver a message that he could quite competently have communicated through other channels, or in person. The rapidity with which Ijaz has switched sides, meeting the ISI chief in London last month to handover "evidence" implicating his co-conspirator, strongly suggests that it is Haqqani who is the victim of a conspiracy.

Sherry Rehman, a formidable politician from Sindh, has now replaced Haqqani. But his forced resignation puts an end to the pretence of civilian rule in Pakistan -- and heralds the unapologetically solemn re-takeover of the country by the military-intelligence camorra that spawned the forces of destruction in Afghanistan. So it is astounding that, rather than treating Haqqani's departure as a setback, officials in the Obama administration see it as something of a boon. Haqqani's private criticisms of the Pakistani army led, according to a report in the New York Times, "to a diminishing of his influence in Washington, especially in the White House."

Why would the White House choose to belittle a man championing civilian rule in Pakistan? Isn't that also the objective of the Obama administration? The answer increasingly appears to be no.

 SUBJECTS: PAKISTAN, SOUTH ASIA
 

Kapil Komireddi is an Indian journalist.

WALTSWRONGWITHTHISPICTURE

7:27 PM ET

November 28, 2011

why does obama do nothing?

because he has no backbone unless he has a telepromter or a drone.

 

WALTSWRONGWITHTHISPICTURE

7:30 PM ET

November 28, 2011

oopps....teleprompter...lol

seriously...america should be very afraid of the long term consequences of obama's reign....his foreign policy is a disaster, no matter what die hard obamamaniacs say....bush might have been too strong, too direct, but obama is simply naive, and completely out of his league when it comes to how the real non academic world works. America is being severely hurt by his very personal ideologically driven foreign policy.

 

IA114

8:19 PM ET

November 28, 2011

What would the US do?

The fact that Pakistan has on several occasions supported anti-US elements is an accurate one,no matter how much the Government of Pakistan would like to deny. But under no circumstance is it acceptable to enter the sovereign territory of a country and attack its soldiers,as "self-defence" or not.... If China or Russia were to attack from Cuba on America territory ,i doubt the same reaction would have followed.

 

MAIWAND

6:41 PM ET

November 30, 2011

Geographical confusion

This check post and few others were established by ISI and Pakistani army , infact within the close boundary of Afghan soil.The bombed check post is, in fact, in an area of Kunar province of Afghanistan. ISI made similar check posts, wherefrom insurgents were trained, sent to Afghanistan and could easily monitor its terrorist activities in eastern Afghanistan.NATO should have bombed these checkposts years ago, firstly because these were the terrorist spy centres and secondly Pakistan has no right, what so ever, to build check posts on Afghan soil and then use them against Afghanistan and NATO. I cant see any point in NATO being regretful about this as they have hit the very right target after one decade of wandering confusion in mountains of TORA BORA!!!!!!!!!

 

MIKE.MILITIS

3:35 PM ET

December 1, 2011

@MAIWAND

The Pak military has clearly stated that the soldiers were attacked in a checkpost which was 200 meters INSIDE the Pak territory. If that were false, do you not think that the NATO would have borrowed your argument for justification of its actions? Think again.

 

BING520

8:40 PM ET

November 28, 2011

Afghanistan & Pakistan

The skirmishes between Afghanstan & Pakistan have a long history. The Durand Line as a basis for borderline between two countries, a one-page agreement signed by British India and Afghanstan, has not been clearly defined and is a source of animosity. The Durand Line has been one of the most porous border in the world, almost impossible to patrol and control. Karzai's has renewed and heated up the border dispute with Pakistan.

Since the invasion of Afghanistan, the US has inadvertently interposed herself in the animosity without a workable idea. Both countries are doing their best to outmanuever each other. Now it has become our problem. The problem will not go away easily. The author's argument that destroying Pakistani military leadership would make the disput disappear is, I am afraid, a simplified wishful thinking.

 

JIVATMANX

9:16 PM ET

November 28, 2011

Unfortunately, Obama is not

Unfortunately, Obama is not god, and undoubtedly will not find a way to make the word's most vicious sociopaths heel.

It would have been easier, however, if Cheney had not let Musharraf whisk away the entire Taliban leadership in the "Airlift of Evil".

 

KHALID MUFTI

9:28 PM ET

November 28, 2011

Kapil Komireddi is Tamil...

...for "Professional Liar."

Kapil, wipe that froth from off your mouth and the keyboard, and somebody make sure he takes his meds regularly.

FP, shame on you for giving editorial space to such hysteria from a RAW agent.

 

DR. KUCHBHI

12:15 AM ET

November 29, 2011

i'm sure you have more to offer than ad hominem attacks, Khalid

Consider this. For 10 years now,

the US has been swatting bees in Afghanistan while entire trees of bee hives in Pakistan lay untouched - other than the so called surgical strikes conducted by the drones.

The Taliban in Pakistan doesn't give a flying flip about civilian casualties. They go after the leaders, they inspire fear among the population and there's a very clear "you're with us or against us" that even W could take a lesson from.

This entire "winning the hearts and minds" thing in Pakistan is a bad joke. If we want to save American lives, we need to take the battle to the enemy and set fire to those hives.

 

VARDHANK

8:53 AM ET

November 29, 2011

Just because the writer is an Indian...

If he didn't have an Indian name, would you have at least tried to understand what he's saying?
Let's pretend then, that his name is John Smith. What now? Does his analysis make more sense? It does to me, but of course, I'm an Indian and therefore just waiting to butcher every Pakistani man, woman and child, so I can't be taken seriously.
Are we done?

So now, to the article. I wish the tone had been a little less agitated, because his observations are spot on. The root cause of the problem is Pakistan, or more specifically, the Pakistani military and its psychotic child, the ISI. And, unfortunately, they're the people who control Pakistan and its foreign policy. Without the army's constant prophecies of an Indian-engineered doom for Pakistan, the paranoia wouldn't exist. And without the ISI, we wouldn't have the Taliban, Lashkar-e-Tayyaba and a few dozen other terrorist outfits - or at least, these outfits wouldn't have the training, the resources and the secure bases to become as powerful as they are now.

To be honest, I don't think Obama is the dolt he's portrayed as in this article. He made an election promise based on a country I don't think he entirely understood - he expected Pakistan to behave rationally, and that hasn't happened - and now he's stuck with having to pull his troops out because that's what the American public wants. It wants its boys back home, no matter what the damage might be to a region far away, full of people whose names they can't pronounce.

Having said that, and given the reality, that Pakistan IS indeed acting against everyone's interests (including its own, but more on that in a bit), Obama should reconsider, and finish the job in Afghanistan. That means letting Afghanistan get back on its own feet, as a country that has no place for terrorists, like any normal nation. The job also means getting rid of the terrorists within Pakistan; bizarrely, Pakistan seems to love having these guests over, and will not do anything about them, so the only option is to go in there and fumigate the place, whether the Pakistanis like it or not. The reality is, Pakistan, by its malevolent interference in the region, has given up the right to be considered a sovereign state. Its territory HAS to be considered a free-for-all, because that's the only way, as of now, to rid the world of the terrorist groups there.

There is, however, one other way, a far better one, and that is for Pakistan to change. A few hard questions are required here, Khalid.

For one, why exactly do you need to control Afghanistan? It's because your army tells you that Pakistan needs 'strategic depth.' So, you prop up the Taliban. No matter that you've done more to hurt Afghanistan than anyone else, even the USSR (as an Afghani taxi driver in NZ told me, "Pakistanis are bastard people. If they didn't interfere with my country, there would be no problems."). No matter that the terrorists you've created are killing your own people. You'd have 'strategic depth.' So you can pop the champagne.

When is your paranoid, highly-strung country, which desperately seeks validation, going to realise that your army's prophecies of doom are self-fulfilling? If you keep messing with India, keep churning out terrorists, keep chafing the US and keep oppressing your own people in the name of unity, you WILL face war from outside, civil war within, and the destruction of what little economy you have left? In your quest for being one of the big boys, you've done yourself much more harm than good.

Your 'reason for existence' was to provide a secure homeland for South Asia's Muslims. Ask the Muslims of South Asia whether they'd feel more secure in Pakistan or in India.
Your constant search for something to call your own has led your country to create terrorists, create a nuclear bomb and make enemies, none of which it needs. You had an economy at one point, which you've given up so that you can mess up the region. And has it helped you? Do you and your people have a better life because of it?

Would it not, in short, be better for Pakistan to stop all this? No one wanted to hurt you in the beginning - now everyone does. Get out of the terrorism business, put a leash on your army and let your people decide. If the Baluchis and Sindhis don't want to be part of Pakistan, it isn't because of 'external forces,' it's because the Punjabis don't treat them well. Fix your country before you try to mess with your neighbours.

Face the facts: Pakistan is a medium-sized country with not too many resources. Can it hope to be a big player? In the end, not - and especially not if it's using those meagre resources to fulfill the army's ego. You'd be better off taking care of Pakistan than trying to match India. You can't match India. Don't worry about it.

Let the healing begin, and then you'll be the respected country you want to be.

 

HAMMAD KHALID

9:09 AM ET

November 29, 2011

Kapil : one hundred thousands dead kashmiris are calling you

How on earth this person can write such a preposterous and hate filled article way beyond the ground reality .It clearly seems that somebody has put words in his mouth .I would like to draw his attention to the worst atrocities caused by the Indian people and the government which transformed the world records in barbarism and inhumane activities .More that 1 hundred thousand people have been killed so far in the valley of Kashmir with the highest number of kids becoming orphan in the world .Countless number of women got raped .Mr kapil needs to draw worlds attention to this rather than the killing of few Americans soldiers by the Taliban .

 

VARDHANK

9:55 AM ET

November 29, 2011

Who's killed how many?

Um. You really want to talk numbers?

Let's count, then.

1) How many Kashmiris were killed by the terrorists funded, trained and housed by Pakistan?

2) How many Indians were killed in the many, many, many terrorist attacks over the years, again by terrorists funded, trained and housed by Pakistan? Like:
a) The Parliament attack
b) The Delhi Akshardham attack
c) The Mumbai blasts of 1993, 7/11 and this year
d) The 26/11 Mumbai terrorist attack

3) How many Bangladeshis (at that time Pakistanis) were raped, made homeless and murdered by Pakistan in 1971?

4) How many NATO and allied soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan because the ISI and the army kept giving the Taliban information about troop movements?

5) How many Indian soldiers have been killed in the 1948, 1965, 1971 and Kargil wars, all of which took place when Pakistan attacked India?

6) How many Afghans were killed by the Pak-sponsored Taliban?

7) How many people died in the 9/11 attack, after which the creator of those attacks was welcomed and housed in Pakistan?

8) How many Baluchis, Sindhis and Pashtuns (all Pakistani citizens) have been killed by the Pakistani army?

9) How many Pakistanis have been killed by terrorist attacks within the country, all by terrorist groups nurtured by the ISI and the Pakistani army?

10) How many kilograms of nuclear material, blueprints and kilogramworth of scientists has Pakistan sent abroad?

Say hello when you want to talk numbers again. Honestly.

 

SYEDAHAQ

10:59 AM ET

November 29, 2011

I completely agree with you.

I completely agree with you. It is really a shame that FP is giving a platform to an Indian shill.

 

SYEDAHAQ

11:06 AM ET

November 29, 2011

The root cause of the

The root cause of the conflict and instability in the region is India's occupation of Kashmir. Over a hundred thousand Kashmiris have been murdered in cold blood by the Indian swines. The hinterland of Kashmir is dotted with the unmarked mass graves of Kashmiris killed by the soldiers of " democratic " India. The Indian propgandists and shills should know that unless the Indian occupation of Kashmir is not ended and Kashmiris are not given the right of self determination as promised to them by Gandhi, Nehru and UNO, there will be no peace in the region. Kashmir is the coming nuclear flash point.And don't tell me I'm a Pakistani. I am a Kashmiri, born and raised in Srinagar. The arrogance and the hypocracy of the Indians isgoes well beyond my patience.

 

VISIONTUNNEL

1:15 PM ET

November 29, 2011

ISI of Pakistan spent

ISI of Pakistan spent millions of Dollars to perpetuate and repeat the well known narrative about Kashmir.

Every Pakistani for Ex Dictator Musharraf to Man on Street of Multan relapse to repeat how the Indian Army has killed more than 100,000 innocent Kashmir men and raped thousands of women.

But the reality is totally different, but some thing which will never be accepted even by most educated and well meaning Pakistanis, any where in the world.

Most of Pakistanis -highly educated to unlettered firmly believe that Kashmir belongs to Pakistan, period.

Now some thing about the 100,000 Kashmiris killed myth perpetuated diligently at great effort and costs.

Since 1989, following terrorism and Pakistani instigated deaths have occurred in Kashmir:

21,323 Militants killed by Army and Police

13,226 Civilian Killed by Militants.

3,642 civilian killed by Army and Police.

6,269 Solders killed by militants.

Total 43, 460 Deaths.

With fat head numbs skull generals of Pakistani army, forever devising newer ways to inflict self wounds and more pains, Pakistanis do not need an external enemy at all.

 

MIKE.MILITIS

2:39 PM ET

November 29, 2011

False information

@VARDHANK: I agree with some of the points you have raised here, but your "the Baluchis and Sindhis don't want to be part of Pakistan" line is absurd and false. Truly, Pakistan currently has a persisting Baluch separatist movement and the Sindhi nationalism has been there from ever, but you should also understand that in Pakistan, politics are perpetuated on the basis of religion, race, and ethnicity, not through debates on "national" prosperity. (I believe India suffers from the same woe to some extent.) Therefore, you should not categorize the motives of some selfish feudal-lords as the general thinking of all people.

 

VARDHANK

8:46 PM ET

November 29, 2011

@mike.militis

Certainly, we have similar problems in India. The difference is that we're learning how to live together as a country, while Pakistan is getting worse. Plus, we aren't sending terrorists into Pakistan to keep the people of Manipur (one of the northeastern states) feeling that they're part of a nation in grave danger of outside attack.
And to shrug off Baluchi, Pahstun and Sindhi desires as just something a handful of warlords want, is not correct. The Baluchis very clearly want to break away, and the Pashtuns have never considered themselves part of Pakistan, though their concept of a state is very different from ours. The Sindhis, all right, would probably not take it too badly if only they were treated better by the Punjabis, but as it stands, that doesn't look like it's going to happen.
And what of the Ahmadis, the Christians and the Hindus, who consider themselves Pakistani but aren't treated as such by the government?
Please don't label my points as 'false information' if you disagree with them - it just gives the wingnuts something to slaver over.

 

VARDHANK

9:11 PM ET

November 29, 2011

@syedahaq

Since you're from Srinagar, we have something to talk about.

To start off, please don't give me numbers cooked up by Pakistan and repeated as rumours. Have these 100,000 deaths verified by Amnesty, the UNHRC, the Indian NHRC or anyone else? Even a Kashmiri group other than the separatist leaders?

And what problems exactly did you have before the insurgents came in? You think the Indian army has been there since 1947, butchering Kashmiris? No. The problems starts and ends with Pakistan and the militancy. What would you say to the Kashmiri Pundits who were driven out of the valley? Do you think they have any say in the future of Kashmir, or do they not have this right at all? What about the people of Leh and Ladakh and Jammu?

On many things, I have great sympathy for the Kashmiris. Forget the 100,000 deaths - even one is a bad thing, and something I think the Indian army should always be ashamed of. And for the record, I completely oppose the Armed Forces Special Powers Act: I don't think anyone should be protected from the law in this fashion. The army is not a police force, it isn't trained or designed for the role it's been playing in J&K. Honestly, I feel an armed police force, hopefully composed largely of Kashmiris, would be a better solution.

So why is the army there? It doesn't even want to be there. Is it because I, as a 'mainstream' Indian, simply don't like you Kashmiris? Or is it because for two decades we've been fighting off Pakistan-created terrorists? Kashmir, like it or not, is still a war zone, and a war zone means an army presence. Your problems will end the minute Pakistan and its terrorists go away. The army will leave, and you'll be able to reconstruct your lives.

And what is this about a nuclear flashpoint? Do you think India stole Kashmir from Pakistan, that this is some sort of territorial dispute that's trampling the Kashmiris underfoot? Remember, Pakistan attacked Kashmir in 1948, which legally became a part of India, and that Kashmir has never been a part of Pakistan. So Pakistan has as much right to yap about Kashmir as does, say, Papua New Guinea.

As for self-determination, how do you think that should go. Again, what of the Pundits, the Lehis and Ladkahis? They have no desire to break away from India. And what if by some weird chance Kashmir does become an independent state? How many days do you think you'll be independent before Pakistan marches in, or creates another Taliban to stamp your culture down? You talk about India's occupation of Kashmir: have you spoken to the Kashmiris who live in PoK? Do you have any idea what goes on there?

Please, for heaven's sake, stop spouting the rubbish that the Pakistanis and the separatists tell you. Work with us. Then Kashmir will be a happy place again.

 

MIKE.MILITIS

10:14 AM ET

November 30, 2011

@VARDHANK: As a man who has

@VARDHANK: As a man who has spent a substantial amount of time in Pakistan, I can assure you that besides Punjabis, Pashtuns, Sindhis and Baluchis are very patriotic people and loyal to Pakistan. I clarify again that Sindhi and Baluchi nationalism is not the overall desire of all people. These terms are just slogans which are being browbeaten to keep a certain class of people in power. I hope you can understand that they are able to mislead many people since Pakistan’s literacy rate is not even 60% and most people would rather vote for someone who hails from their own district (no matter how crooked he might be) than a much-better contender from another part. I suggest you to visit Pakistan or at least meet a Paki if you can find one at your end.

As for “the Ahmadis, the Christians and the Hindus”, I realize the minorities face a lot of hitches in Pakistan, but none of these originate from common literate people. As Burke put it: The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

 

ZEESHANFP

6:02 PM ET

November 30, 2011

@Vardhank

"If he didn't have an Indian name, would you have at least tried to understand what he's saying?
Let's pretend then, that his name is John Smith. What now? Does his analysis make more sense? It does to me, but of course, I'm an Indian and therefore just waiting to butcher every Pakistani man, woman and child, so I can't be taken seriously.
Are we done?"

The Indianness that drove much of your hate, bigotry and delusionalism about Pakistan should be given attention. As an Indian, your conflict of interest in writing and subjecting Pakistan should be brought up to the forefront. This is nothing short of your propaganda (the usual hate-filled and sanctimonious preaching to Pakistan). When the usual Indian's hate-filled propaganda received platform, it's the duty of others (Pakistanis or not) to remind others about the "conflict of interest" and the propaganda value of piece like this.

"So now, to the article. I wish the tone had been a little less agitated, because his observations are spot on. The root cause of the problem is Pakistan, or more specifically, the Pakistani military and its psychotic child, the ISI. And, unfortunately, they're the people who control Pakistan and its foreign policy. Without the army's constant prophecies of an Indian-engineered doom for Pakistan, the paranoia wouldn't exist. And without the ISI, we wouldn't have the Taliban, Lashkar-e-Tayyaba and a few dozen other terrorist outfits - or at least, these outfits wouldn't have the training, the resources and the secure bases to become as powerful as they are now."

This is peculiarly coming from a nation that viewed Pakistan's hands in every separatist movement and whose nation till to this day view "separatists" in Kashmir as "pro-Pakistan" rather than having the courage to call them as "Kashmir nationalists" or "freedom fighters". Kashmiris (don't retreat to your usual Pandits) have no desire to be "Indians" and be part of the world's largest democracy and all other myth you construct about your forsaken land. Talking about Pakistan's mental health status is a bit rich given the constant comparison Indians make with China and the amount of money your pour to "modernize" your army to face wars with China and Pakistan. Extending your logic, Without USSR and Indian's occupation of Kashmir, we will probably would not have Taliban and LeT.

"To be honest, I don't think Obama is the dolt he's portrayed as in this article. He made an election promise based on a country I don't think he entirely understood - he expected Pakistan to behave rationally, and that hasn't happened - and now he's stuck with having to pull his troops out because that's what the American public wants. It wants its boys back home, no matter what the damage might be to a region far away, full of people whose names they can't pronounce."

Pakistanis wanted the same call: enough of your imperialism in Afghanistan, it's time to pack up and leave. And this article will give an idea what Afghans think about US presence in their land and how to move forward with Taliban: http://www.salon.com/2010/12/06/as_afghanistan_36/

"Having said that, and given the reality, that Pakistan IS indeed acting against everyone's interests (including its own, but more on that in a bit), Obama should reconsider, and finish the job in Afghanistan. That means letting Afghanistan get back on its own feet, as a country that has no place for terrorists, like any normal nation. The job also means getting rid of the terrorists within Pakistan; bizarrely, Pakistan seems to love having these guests over, and will not do anything about them, so the only option is to go in there and fumigate the place, whether the Pakistanis like it or not. The reality is, Pakistan, by its malevolent interference in the region, has given up the right to be considered a sovereign state. Its territory HAS to be considered a free-for-all, because that's the only way, as of now, to rid the world of the terrorist groups there."

The usage of the semantic "terrorists" is getting out of control. It was the US who once played with the fire of creating "freedom fighters" before turning them into terrorists. Talking about "normal nation", one has to wonder how normal the US is given its 774 military bases around the globe and how normal India is with 700,000 of its men with guns colonizing Kashmir and with a quarter of its territory under Maoist and its people have no trust on its political leaders while the nation engaged in self-proclaiming itself as the world's largest democracy.

"There is, however, one other way, a far better one, and that is for Pakistan to change. A few hard questions are required here, Khalid.

For one, why exactly do you need to control Afghanistan? It's because your army tells you that Pakistan needs 'strategic depth.' So, you prop up the Taliban. No matter that you've done more to hurt Afghanistan than anyone else, even the USSR (as an Afghani taxi driver in NZ told me, "Pakistanis are bastard people. If they didn't interfere with my country, there would be no problems."). No matter that the terrorists you've created are killing your own people. You'd have 'strategic depth.' So you can pop the champagne."

Pakistan has no desire to control Afghanistan. It just wanted to make sure Indians will not find any space there. More like how you are reacting to China building its infrastructure to encircle and tame you. It is a bit rich again coming from a nation that shook hand with juntas in Myanmar all in the name of keeping China at bay. The irony of this sanctimonious perspective is that your own military wanted a base in Kyrgyzstan for example. So, you have national interest, but Pakistan should not?

"When is your paranoid, highly-strung country, which desperately seeks validation, going to realise that your army's prophecies of doom are self-fulfilling? If you keep messing with India, keep churning out terrorists, keep chafing the US and keep oppressing your own people in the name of unity, you WILL face war from outside, civil war within, and the destruction of what little economy you have left? In your quest for being one of the big boys, you've done yourself much more harm than good."

Are you describing India or Pakistan? Let's repeat this on India, shall we:

""When is your paranoid, highly-strung country, which desperately seeks validation, going to realise that your army's prophecies of doom are self-fulfilling (LIKE INDIA SPENDING $40 BILLIONS ON ITS ARMY WHILE ITS CITIZENS ARE SUFFERING?..WHOSE GENERALS MIGHT STEAL MONEY FROM THE STATE BUT BRAG WITH TREMENDOUS DELUSIONALISM THAT THEY COULD HANDLE BOTH PAKISTAN AND CHINA)? If you keep messing with India, keep churning out terrorists, keep chafing the US and keep oppressing your own people in the name of unity, you WILL face war from outside, civil war within, and the destruction of what little economy you have left? (ERR, YOU ARE MESSING WITH KASHMIRIS, WITH PEOPLE IN THE NORTHEAST AND PEOPLE IN CENTRAL SOUTH ASIA.... ALL IN THE NAME OF UNITY....AND HENCE FACED MAOISTS AND COUNTLESS OTHER SEPARATIST MOVEMENTS) In your quest for being one of the big boys, you've done yourself much more harm than good. (I BELIEVE IT IS YOU WHO HAVE THE DESIRE TO BE A SHOOPERPOWER, AND NOT PAKISTAN)"

"Your 'reason for existence' was to provide a secure homeland for South Asia's Muslims. Ask the Muslims of South Asia whether they'd feel more secure in Pakistan or in India.
Your constant search for something to call your own has led your country to create terrorists, create a nuclear bomb and make enemies, none of which it needs. You had an economy at one point, which you've given up so that you can mess up the region. And has it helped you? Do you and your people have a better life because of it?"

Again the usual sanctimonious view from an Indian. Pakistan existed not just for "Muslims of South Asia" but because just like India, Pakistanis have no desire to be governed either by Brits (and Indians). Muslims in Pakistan would absolutely say they are better off in Pakistan and would never imagine living in India. They have no desire to be Muslims of India either: they have no desire to live in Muslim ghettos in India where Muslim seek refuge from Indians. And please spare me your usual talking point that Muslims have become Presidents in your country. Christian and Hindu have risen to be chief justices of Pakistan too.

What led you to create nuclear bombs then? Wasn't it your delusionalism that you were as mighty as China and needed nukes to protect yourself? Now, how more hypocrite can you become when you turn around and vilify Pakistan? Pakistan's economy is still growing. Neo-liberal economy like the one found in India sure looked good on the paper but when your billionaires owned a sixth of your economy and have close ties with your rulers (citing nytimes), I suggest more reality check of your economy.

"Would it not, in short, be better for Pakistan to stop all this? No one wanted to hurt you in the beginning - now everyone does. Get out of the terrorism business, put a leash on your army and let your people decide. If the Baluchis and Sindhis don't want to be part of Pakistan, it isn't because of 'external forces,' it's because the Punjabis don't treat them well. Fix your country before you try to mess with your neighbours."

Why don't you apply this logic on yourself. Stop terrorizing those who sought independence from New Delhi, let them go. Stop wasting your money on your military and start building schools and hospitals. Save your women and especially Nepalese women who who were kidnapped to your land to fulfill your men's disgusting quest for carnal pleasure. Fix your own country before even having the audacity to lecture others.

"Face the facts: Pakistan is a medium-sized country with not too many resources. Can it hope to be a big player? In the end, not - and especially not if it's using those meagre resources to fulfill the army's ego. You'd be better off taking care of Pakistan than trying to match India. You can't match India. Don't worry about it."

India is not anyone's role model. Sorry, it is not despite what Indians think of themselves. The rest of South Asia countries do not want to see an India hegemony for sure and have no desire to mimic you. Hell no. Your populations are growing out of control. And you have no water, let alone resources to feed and clothe them, so please get a mirror.

"Let the healing begin, and then you'll be the respected country you want to be."

awww, I am so touched....by your delusionalism.

 

MAIWAND

6:55 PM ET

November 30, 2011

An eye opener for those who are born blind

well said..well done..but truth is bitter, so our Pakistani friends need to import some honey instead of exporting terrorism!!

 

CHARLESFRITH

9:41 PM ET

November 28, 2011

Does this have something to do with...

The Pentagon threatening to bomb Pakistan back into the Stone Age after the false war stage managed through 9/11 ?

 

10JACOBF

11:56 PM ET

November 28, 2011

ticking time bomb

This whole affair makes me feel like waiting and watching for Fukushima to blow up in front of us. Every time that someone talks about Pakistan (usually with bad news) I get this unnerving sense of approaching storm clouds. A storm that can only be harmful for everyone and everything. You might be able to delay its approach but there's no outrunning it.

It's a mystery to me how such circumstances like these could ever exist - and with such excruciating tension to boot. I know that foreign policy experts are indigenous pessimists but regardless one can only come to the conclusion that the whole of South Asia seems ready at any time to come undone like a zipper.

 

DR. KUCHBHI

12:08 AM ET

November 29, 2011

We are a Paper tiger

Every country has criminals, murderers and worse.

Exactly ONE country retains such people within its own borders to commit crimes across the border and PROTECTS them from their victims and from its own laws using its national army and its nukes.

Rather than point out how everybody seems to be ganging up on Pakistan (RAW, CIA, MOSSAD), (India, US, Afghanistan), etc. etc., Pakistanis would do well to avoid fitting the above unique characteristic.

This is one case where even doing nothing would be a step in the right direction.
Pakistan will be amazed at how many friends it will have coming out of the woodwork. Tragically the only way that can happen is if the Pakistani army has its back broken - either by its civilian government or by us. Neither are imminent.

 

XDFHNGHD

12:25 AM ET

November 29, 2011

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PENGUN

12:51 AM ET

November 29, 2011

Hmmm Obvious

Possibly the author may not see that in English:

"At the start of the 21st century, the United States offered Pakistan a very straightforward ultimatum: Join us in the war against terrorism inaugurated by al Qaeda's attacks on 9/11 -- or find yourself bombed to the Stone Age."

Is good reason for:

"In the decade since, Pakistan has arguably been responsible for more American deaths than any other state on earth."

It could just reveal his prejudice as an Indian reporter. I dunno.

 

HCIIC

1:58 AM ET

November 29, 2011

want piece in the world

we all want piece in the world and happy life for ever. Pakistan is also against terrorism. I would like to tell you. Well anybody will tell me why NATO attacks on Pakistani army one week ago. There are more than 14 peoples dead in this attack. And the place of attack was clean from terrors t. . Pakistan is very cooperative with america and against terrorism. spotting before period

 

APACHE 5

11:17 AM ET

November 29, 2011

dont talk about what you dont know

Clean from terrorists? Ummm.... I can tell you, from PERSONAL experience, that the place is full of Taliban. I know very well the villages there are safe havens. Why dont you come to Khas Kunar and we can disucuss it. You even know where that is?

 

MIKE.MILITIS

3:04 PM ET

November 29, 2011

Research again

@APACHE 5: There are certainly some verifiable reports in media that the area NATO fighters attacked was cleansed of terrorists sometimes back and it had been communicated to NATO. (I hope you will be able to confirm it, else I can refer you some news sites.) There are ofcourse some areas in the tribal region that are infested with militants but not Salala . The coalition troops have still not been able to explain with accuracy the reason for striking inside the Pakistani territory, and that too for 2 hours

However, if ISAF troops claim they were fired upon first; ISAF should reveal its casualties and confirm/deny whether they were requested by the Pakistani side to stop the attack.

 

MARKZUKERBARG

3:01 AM ET

November 29, 2011

Every one wants peace.!!

Listen, Every one wants peace then why America kills Pakistani army ?
Now they want to finish Pakistan ???
It is not possible in any way..!1
Read it out.
The U.S. military’s highest commander for the region, Marine General James Mattis, yesterday named Air Force Special Operations Command Brigadier General Stephen Clark to lead the investigation. Marine General John Allen, the top U.S. and North Atlantic Treaty Organization commander in Afghanistan, had requested that Central Command take charge of the review, Pentagon Press Secretary.
Pakistan has blocked vital supply routes for U.S.-led troops in Afghanistan and demanded Washington vacate a base used by American drones after coalition aircraft allegedly killed 24 Pakistani troops at two posts along a mountainous frontier that serves as a safe haven for militants. The incident Saturday was a major blow to American efforts to rebuild an already tattered alliance vital to winding down the 10-year-old Afghan war. Islamabad called the bloodshed in one of its tribal areas a "grave infringement" of the country's sovereignty, and it could make it even more difficult for the U.S. to enlist Pakistan's help in pushing Afghan insurgents to engage in peace talks. A NATO spokesman said it was likely that coalition airstrikes caused Pakistani casualties, but an investigation was being conducted to determine the details. If confirmed, it would be the deadliest friendly fire incident by NATO against Pakistani troops since the Afghan war began a decade ago. The White House said senior U.S. civilian and military officials extended condolences to their Pakistani counterparts following the airstrike. The unidentified officials also expressed a desire to work with Pakistan to investigate the deaths.

Col. Gary Kolb, spokesman for the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force in Kabul, said the aircraft were taking part in a strike that was a coordinated effort with ISAF, Pakistani military and the Pakistani border authorities, NBC News reported. He said they had responded to small arms fire, according to NBC News. Asked to confirm that it was retaliatory, he said yes. ISAF was still determining the exact circumstances. "This has the highest priority to ensure that we get all the facts straight," Kolb said, NBC News reported. A prolonged closure of Pakistan's two Afghan border crossings to NATO supplies could cause serious problems for the coalition. The U.S., which is the largest member of the NATO force in Afghanistan, ships more than 30 percent of its non-lethal supplies through Pakistan. The coalition has alternative routes through Central Asia into northern Afghanistan, but they are costlier and less efficient. Kolb noted that even if some of supply routes through Pakistan were closed, there were "contingencies built into the system" to deal with these types of disruptions. Pakistan temporarily closed one of its Afghan crossings to NATO supplies last year after U.S. helicopters accidentally killed two Pakistani soldiers. Suspected militants took advantage of the impasse to launch attacks against stranded or rerouted trucks carrying NATO supplies. The government reopened the border after about 10 days when the U.S. apologized. NATO said at the time the relatively short closure did not significantly affect its ability to keep its troops supplied. But the reported casualties are much greater this time, and the relationship between Pakistan and the U.S. has severely deteriorated over the last year, especially following the covert American raid that killed Osama bin Laden in a Pakistani garrison town in May. Islamabad was outraged that it wasn't told about the operation beforehand. Losing air base for drones?
The government announced it closed its border crossings to NATO in a statement issued after an emergency meeting of the Cabinet's defense committee chaired by Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani. It also said that within 15 days the U.S. must vacate Shamsi Air Base, which is located in southwestern Baluchistan province. The U.S. uses the base to service drones that target al-Qaida and Taliban militants in Pakistan's tribal region when they cannot return to their bases inside Afghanistan because of weather conditions or mechanical difficulty, said U.S. and Pakistani officials, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive strategic matters. The government also plans to review all diplomatic, military and intelligence cooperation with the U.S. and other NATO forces, according to the statement issued after the defense committee meeting. The White House said that senior U.S. civilian and military officials had expressed their condolences to their Pakistani counterparts. The White House statement said the officials expressed "our desire to work together to determine what took place, and our commitment to the U.S.-Pakistan partnership which advances our shared interests, including fighting terrorism in the region." The White House statement did not address Pakistan's decision to block supply routes for the war in Afghanistan or its demand that the U.S. vacate the drone base. 'Blatant and unacceptable'
The Pakistani army said Saturday that NATO helicopters and fighter jets carried out an "unprovoked" attack on two of its border posts in the Mohmand tribal area before dawn, killing 24 soldiers and wounding 13 others. The troops responded in self-defense "with all available weapons," an army statement said. Pakistan army chief Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani condemned the attack, calling it a "blatant and unacceptable act," according to the statement. A spokesman for NATO forces, Brig. Gen. Carsten Jacobson, said Afghan and coalition troops were operating in the border area of eastern Afghanistan when "a tactical situation" prompted them to call in close air support. It is "highly likely" that the airstrikes caused Pakistani casualties, he told BBC television at agenda software. "My most sincere and personal heartfelt condolences go out to the families and loved ones of any members of Pakistan security forces who may have been killed or injured," Gen. John Allen, the top overall commander of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan, said in a statement. The border issue is a major source of tension between Islamabad and Washington, which is committed to withdrawing its combat troops from Afghanistan by the end of 2014. Much of the violence in Afghanistan is carried out by insurgents who are based just across the border in Pakistan. Coalition forces are not allowed to cross the frontier to attack the militants. However, the militants sometimes fire artillery and rockets across the line, reportedly from locations close to Pakistani army posts. American officials have repeatedly accused Pakistani forces of supporting — or turning a blind eye — to militants using its territory for cross-border attacks. But militants based in Afghanistan have also been attacking Pakistan recently, prompting complaints from Islamabad. Mountaintop posts
The two posts that were attacked Saturday were located about 1,000 feet apart on a mountain top and were set up recently to stop Pakistani Taliban militants holed up in Afghanistan from crossing the border and staging attacks, said local government and security officials. There was no militant activity in the area when the alleged NATO attack occurred, local officials said. Some of the soldiers were standing guard, while others were asleep, they said, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to the media. Pakistan army spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas said map references of all of the force's border posts have been given to NATO several times.

Thanks

 

BALWAL.RAKESH

4:41 AM ET

November 29, 2011

kapil is absolute right and talking bitter truth about pakistan

Going by the reactions of few pakistanis here...... this is the natural reaxn when truth comes out....when Indians died in embassy attacks there is no reaxn....but when your own countrymen die by your economic saviors..truth gets transformed into froth (mr. Khalid in one of previous comments)...there is no else to blame but your own bigot country and its immoral military....Pakistan needs America more then vice versa...

 

MARTY MARTEL

5:41 AM ET

November 29, 2011

U. S. loves to be duped by Pakistani Generals

After ten long years of Afghan war fueled by America’s erstwhile ally Pakistan, it is America’s domestic political compulsions that will leave Afghanistan to the mercy of Pakistani Generals.

And America has paid willingly to Pakistan for latter’s such blatant duplicity.

America indeed deserves to be duped by Pakistan.

 

SYEDAHAQ

10:56 AM ET

November 29, 2011

The generals---

I'm surprised that Foreign Policy has given this indian shill a platform to spread hate and lies about Pakistan. let me put it straight. Pakistanis perceive, and rightly so, that America is supporting the Indian occupation of Kashmir. We have to realise that the Kashmir problem is the elephant in the room, the main bone of contentionbetween India and Pakistan. The Indian occupation army has killed in cold blood over a hundred thousand Kashmiri, men ,women and children in the past fifteen years. Numerous unmarked mass graves have been found in the rural areas of Kashmir valley, containing the bodies of Kashmiri young men, kidnapped, tortured and murdered by the Indian occupation army. The 'democratic" India is committing war crimes in Kashmir and America and the rest of the western world show complete indifference. Only last year 117 kashmiris ,mostly school going children were shot in cold blood by the Indian Criminal Reserve Police ( CRP). Why aren't the atrocities and abuses visited upon Kashmiris by the Indian occupation troops exposed in your paper, Kashmiris ask. Why is it that India is not condemned by UNO and the US state department for its human rights violations in the occupied region.It is a shame. And Pakistanis rightfully resent America's support to their enemy. Taliban are not an existential threat to Pakistan;India is.

 

DR. KUCHBHI

11:13 AM ET

November 29, 2011

One more thing for Pakistanis to blame

for their self inflicted misery.

"INDIAN BORN AUTHORS"
now joins the list of RAW, MOSSAD, CIA, Jews, Hindoos and so on.

Not a single bit of criticism from the Pakis on these comment columns offers an argument to counter or contest what the author is saying.

The blame is simply that he is of Indian origin.
Way to go, Pakistan! The world can count on you to find someone else to blame.

 

VOXOCEANUS

11:45 AM ET

November 29, 2011

Indian mind . . . cannot change !!!

Mr. Kamina, your article reflects the deep hatred and typical mentality that Indians have with Pakistan. You may now claim to a an American (or Terrorican to be precise) but you still are a shooder . . . You need to unshackle yourself from that sickness that dwells deep in men like you ;)

 

SYEDAHAQ

1:43 PM ET

November 29, 2011

VOX: It is precisely because

VOX: It is precisely because of the Hindoo mind that India had to be partitioned. Their hypocracy,cast systen and intriguing mind is a curse on humanity. Even Kissinger,himself a conspirator par excellence, in his memoirs calls Indians narrow minded, intriguing creatures .

 

ARSLANDURR

11:59 AM ET

November 29, 2011

Awesome work. This is good

Awesome work.
This is good work. You are working hard.

 

KXB

1:37 PM ET

November 29, 2011

First step - look at a map

Um, considering that the only way American can get supplies to its forces in Afghanistan is through Pakistan, what is Obama supposed to do? I don't think Iran will be offering land routes to Afghanistan for our guys to use. If Pakistan simply shuts down its airspace to us, we have at best 30 days of supply and ammunition. So, maybe Obama is approaching Pakistan cautiously because that is what the situation calls for. That seems more likely than some inane comment about "inner weakness".

 

C. NANDKISHORE

2:03 PM ET

November 29, 2011

Pakistan army is the army of Punjab.

Let not forget that Pak army is basically an army of West Punjab. Any thing against west Punjab is immediately dealt severely. In this role it has made slaves of Sindhis, Balichis and Pathans. In nine months it had killed one million Bangladeshis when all they wanted their democratic right. This Punjabi army killed many Palestinians during the 1969 Black September. It hanged a democratically elected Sindhi prime minister (Zulfikar). It shot dead a popular and would be Sindhi Prime minister. (Benazir). It had kept Frontier Gandhi in jail for throughout his life. It shot dead the Boluchi freedom fighter ( Bughti). It ensures that Punjab uses 90% of the water available. Punjab uses 90% of the budget. The poor present Sindhi President begs America to save him from this Punjabi army. It protects the Punjabi terrorists like TTE, Let etc. Pakistan is actually Punjab and its colonies of Sind, Baluchistan and NWFA. This Punjabi army now wants to make Afghanistan its fourth colony.
I am sure that the 24 who were killed were from Punjab. If they had been from other parts the Pak army would not have bothered.

 

MIKE.MILITIS

3:51 PM ET

November 29, 2011

Sad

Mr Nandkishore, you should be ashamed of yourself for suggesting that. Only if you had researched correctly, you might have been able to ascertain facts for yourself. Nevertheless, Let me correct you point wise.

1. The West Punjabis (or the Punjabis) constitute about 55% of total manpower in the military. (It is understandable given Punjabis make-up more than 56% of Pakistan's total population.)

2. Pakistan army could not have undertaken an operation in a foreign country without explicit request from the government of that country.

3. True, the army hanged a democratic leader, but certainly not because of ethnicity. (For better understanding, you should read books authored by ZAB during his imprisonment.)

4. Benazir was killed by the Taliban. (It is accepted by the US and the UN as well. Truly, Musharraf didn't provide her with adequate security, but outright involvement of the army is ridiculous.)

5. Bugti would have been a great person, had he not been involved in terrorist attacks on infrastructure in Pakistan and used a little portion of great fortune and power in educating and rehabilitating the poor Baluchis. Instead, he led them to armed struggle against fellow Pakistanis on false premise. He had served at higher government positions including I think as a Governor, but he had nothing to show about his performance in that capacity.

6. Punjab doesn't use 90% of "water available". The exact percentage ranges between 60% to 70% and the decision is taken by the federation.

7. Punjab province doesn't use "90%" of the budget, but rather only 51.74%.

8. "The poor present Sindhi President" is actually the President of Pakistan and to get a good measure of his popularity, just ask anyone from his own country and within his own party. If you're so naive to believe that army mounts pressure or even coups just on grounds of ethnicity, trust me it would not have removed Iskander Mirza and Nawaz Sharif, among many more, from power.

9. THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT. Of the 24 that were killed, only 2 were commissioned officers and both of them were Sindhis.

 

C. NANDKISHORE

2:07 PM ET

November 29, 2011

Pakistan army is the army of Punjab - 2

Also there are terrorists attacks in Sind, Baluchistan and NWFA. Never heard of terrorists attacking in West Punjab.

 

MIKE.MILITIS

3:53 PM ET

November 29, 2011

Please widen your research

Please widen your research scope and then maybe you will make sense.

 

CELLPETROL

2:10 PM ET

November 29, 2011

Trust Worthy Leader Imran Khan

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MIKE.MILITIS

2:48 PM ET

November 29, 2011

America is guilty

Dr Kuchbhi, as the World knows, the army in Pakistan wields more power than is appropriate in any democratic and free country. The army is felonious at this point, but each US administration is equally guilty of the plight the Pakistanis are in today. The US has always supported and funded the military dictators in Pakistan; be it Ayub Khan, or Ziaul Haq, or Pervez Musharraf. For all practical purposes, the US has never allowed the democracy to function in that country.

 

DR. KUCHBHI

4:13 PM ET

November 29, 2011

No it's not

Firstly, thanks for the first non ad-hominem responses from Pakistan.

The US is going to protect its interests.

Those may or may not overlap with democracy in Pakistan.

Those interests often clash with democratic countries.
For example:
- India whose representatives and defense establishment have often voted or purchased items that are not in tune with US interests
- Turkey whose representatives refused to allow the US to attack Iraq from their territory
and a boatload of other countries
- a boat load of European countries that thumbed their noses at the US for venturing into Iraq

The fact that Pakistan decided to go with the flow in Afghanistan when it suited them or when the price was right or that the dictators chose to do what suited them is not the fault of the US.

Unless Pakistan accepts that its problems are its own, there will never be any steps taken to fix things. There will always be someone to blame - including Indian authors (as you can see for yourself) - for Pakistan's problems.

 

MIKE.MILITIS

9:47 AM ET

November 30, 2011

No, the US is guilty

What you stated makes sense. Nations always strive to safeguard their interests, be it anyhow. That’s what the US, or any other country, has continually done. But if you look at the situation from Pakistan’s view-point then you can’t blame the Pakis when they allegedly play double- games in Afghanistan. They believe they are already surrounded on the Eastern front by a hostile country (Whether it’s true or false, is another issue and lets leave it at that). Thus, the Pakis can’t afford to have another unfriendly country on the Western border. Their purported actions illuminate that argument quite well.

And, when the US has never permitted democracy to function in Pakistan (let me state again: in connivance with some of its own people), do you really expect the Pakis to accept a democratic government in Kabul? I am certain I am not being prejudiced here.

The way I see it, in their struggle for protecting the national interests, countries frequently employ double-standards. We have the same case here. The US and the rest of World would be rather better off by supporting the elected governments in Pakistan and consolidating democracy. I say this because the US and other Western countries have all the influence to make that possible. Inclination to realizing short-term gains over long-term losses ought to be shunned at all costs.

 

DR. KUCHBHI

5:31 PM ET

November 30, 2011

I'm not sure I understand

On the one hand, you are saying that the US is to blame for funding and working with military dictators more than the civilian government in Pakistan. (I would dispute this in light of the fact that Musharraf stepped down under US pressure but let's leave that aside.)
On the other hand, you defend Pakistanis doing exactly that in Afghanistan. If the US has been "guilty" in Pakistan, then is not Pakistan equally "guilty" in Afghanistan?

In regard to self interest, if we assume that it is ok for everyone to play double games, then how can anybody be "guilty" of anything, anyway? If people cannot be held to the agreements that they sign up for and such a thing is ok under the banner of self interest, then nobody is really "guilty", right?

All that to say that, pursuing things like who is "guilty" is a messy enterprise.

What I'm saying is that Pakistanis need to stop pointing fingers at the usual bogeymen (US, India, Israel, Mossad, CIA, Indian authors ..) and look inwards to see what they can do within their country to redress the situation in which they find themselves.

There are many "guilty" (using the definition of doing things that are self serving and not in Pakistan's interest) people in Pakistan like the mullahs, the generals and multiple politicians. Most other democratic countries have to deal only with their politicians. Fixing these should be on most Pakistani's minds.

 

MAIWAND

7:30 PM ET

November 30, 2011

Read history

@ Mike Militis:In response to ur words when u say "And, when the US has never permitted democracy to function in Pakistan (let me state again: in connivance with some of its own people), do you really expect the Pakis to accept a democratic government in Kabul? I am certain I am not being prejudiced here"
How dare you link the story of your failed democracy in Pakistan to the future of Afghanistan. Afghanistan had a functioning constitutioinal democracy under constitutional monarchy for centuries, long before this naughy ,terrorist child known as Pakistan was even born!!!!!!!!!!
And secondly, how dare you compared Pakistan to USA? USA is a superpower and Pakistan is a begger, almost bankrupt state, plagued by terrorism, famine, floods and dengue fever!! whose army and civil government are fed by USA since decades.You think that this terrorist, bankrupt state is comparable to USA and should have the same right to shape the future of Afghanistan, as USA did shape or try to change the course of democracy in Pakistan??? Let me tell u that Afghanistan is not a bastard child of british empire who hasnt made its century as yet. Its a nation and a land which existed here for thousands of years as a dominant ruling enterprise.Afghans are not sindhis or balochs, either..You better read Afghan history before you comment such things.

 

MIKE.MILITIS

5:15 AM ET

December 1, 2011

@DR. KUCHBHI

Sir, firstly, Musharraf resigned under US pressure ONLY after his popularity sunk to record lows in Pakistan and half of the country wanted him out. Pretty candidly, if he didn't have snags at home (lawyers' movement, Red Mosque siege, etc) and could do US' bidding effectively, the US would have been more than happy to retain him in power for ever. Only after the establishment feared a repercussion from public did they force him to quit. Period.

I am glad you understood the point I was making. Truly, Pakistan faces many threats from inside as well and people are just beginning to realize that. Hopefully, they will be able to tackle those in time.

 

MIKE.MILITIS

5:37 AM ET

December 1, 2011

@MAIWAND

I’ll answer your emotional outburst point-wise.

Firstly, you're correct to say Afghanistan has been in existence long before Pakistan was created. But I doubt it "had a functioning constitutioinal democracy under constitutional monarchy for centuries". Afghanistan's inner environment has always been tumultuous, even long before than Pakistan was forced to interfere in Afghanistan's affairs. (YOU must read Afghanistan's political history for that bit of information.) So, please spare us all your sermons on how Afghanistan was like a heaven on Earth and how Pakistan ruined it.

Secondly, Afghanistan and Pakistan are not only linked through geographic factors, but have maintained people-to-people contacts dating back many decades. Obviously, the US and the rest of the World realize that any durable solution to Afghan problem cannot be effective if regional countries (including Pakistan) are not on board. Since, at the end of day, it's going to Pakistan which will be living next to Afghanistan, not the US or NATO countries. If Pakistan is supposed to play its part, then it should also be allowed have a say!

And thank you, I have known Afghan history for a long-time. It’s time you should understand it too.

 

DR. KUCHBHI

12:12 PM ET

December 1, 2011

Actually I did NOT understand the point you were making

For all the uproar about sovereignty in Pakistan, unless you're claiming that Pakistan openly invites the US to pick its leaders (which would indicate a significant lack of sovereignty in many parts of the world), I don't see eye to eye with you about the US never allowing democracy to function in Pakistan.

The US is not an angel. It has been guilty of ruining democracy in other places - Iran under Mosadegh, in Chile under Allende - but NOT in Pakistan.

Every Pakistani coup ( Ayub Khan, Zia and Musharraf) was done without any US or CIA involvement. So the theory that the US has never allowed democracy to function in Pakistan really has no basis.

Yes, the US has "worked with" Pakistani dictators to further their foreign policy interests but doing business with a head of state who is not elected does not make them "guilty of the plight the Pakistanis are in today". For that the Pakistanis have only themselves to blame.

 

SREEKANTH

2:12 PM ET

December 1, 2011

>>>They believe they are

>>>They believe they are already surrounded on the Eastern front by a hostile country (Whether it’s true or false, is another issue and lets leave it at that). Thus, the Pakis can’t afford to have another unfriendly country on the Western border.

Sometimes when you stare at the same thing all the time, you miss the obvious. In this case the obvious question is, so what if Pak is surrounded ?

For example, Bangladesh is surrounded by India. I don't see them having any heartburn about it, or trying to acquire "strategic depth". They are a Muslim country as well, a fragment of the original India / Pak partition. Why don't they feel the urge to "liberate" Kashmir ? One would think that if this was unfinished business left over from partition, and an injustice to South Asian Muslims, that Bangla Muslims would be equally agitated about it.

The answer comes down to several equivalent statements pointing to the same thing. It's West Pak's delusions of grandeur, the racism of trying to prove origin from Arabs, Persians, Mongols, anybody but South Asians, the absurdity of a country on the periphery of Islam wanting to be a leader of the Islamic ummah (as Zia set out to do), and the impossibility of a shattered economy feeding the war machine that they'd like to have.

The Pak army has had its hand on Pak's throat for the longest time, and all they have to show for it is 3 1/2 lost wars, and a history of renting themselves out to various tyrants, Jordan in the old days, Bahrain in the present time.

The prescription that the author provides, and several others in this group, and what Hussain Haqqani was trying to achieve, has been stated so many times that it's a cliche, that the Pak army needs to be cut down to size, and accept civilian leadership.

 

MIKE.MILITIS

2:54 PM ET

December 1, 2011

@DR. KUCHBHI

I was referring to your statement.

"In regard to self-interest, if we assume that it is ok for everyone to play double games, then how can anybody be "guilty" of anything, anyway? If people cannot be held to the agreements that they sign up for and such a thing is ok under the banner of self-interest, then nobody is really "guilty", right?

All that to say that, pursuing things like who is "guilty" is a messy enterprise."

That's exactly what I was saying. The US hasn't always played by the rules. It shouldn’t expect others to NOT do the same.

I catch American leaders giving out speeches of how they would like to see democracy flourish in every corner of the World. In some places, they have done that, which is great undeniably. But in some other places, they have toppled legitimate civilian governments just for the sake of fostering their short-term interests.

In case of Pakistan, truly there is no evidence on ground of overt CIA/US involvement in any three takeovers. But as you may find in all three cases, the US initially criticizes the coup leader and after 1 - 2 years, the US just can't let the tyrant go because he advances the American interests against that of his own country.

Look at the example of Musharraf. When he removed Sharif from power, the US rebuked him and imposed sanctions on Pakistan. But after 9/11, he suddenly becomes "major non-NATO ally", even after he carried out no major reforms as demanded by international community. What's that? I am not saying it was entirely US’ fault. But if public do not admire a particular leader, how could you expect them to admire his “allies”? Nevertheless, Pakistanis ought to share their own portion of responsibility.

 

MIKE.MILITIS

3:30 PM ET

December 1, 2011

@SREEKANTH

You have overlooked the core of argument. You say: "so what if Pak is surrounded ?" Well, Pak wouldn't want to be encircled for the very same reason the US threatened former USSR with nuclear attacks, when the latter tried to erect missile bases in Cuba. India had been in negotiations with Tajikistan to let the Farkhor Airbase be an Indian one and once the US vacates Afghanistan, India could very well fill the gap to its military benefit. Presently, in the event of war, India could attack Pakistan from the East and South and to counter that Pakistan has deployed its armed forces there. But with Afghanistan under Indian influence, can't you imagine the many directions Pak military would have to engage purported adversary?

Secondly, Kashmir conflict is between India and Pakistan. It shouldn't be considered as India vs Muslims. That's why Bangladesh (and Indonesia among many other states) despite of having large Muslim populations have no active stance on Kashmir issue.

Finally, I can partially agree with your last paragraph. Pak army SHOULD be under civilian leadership but "to be cut down to size" is not conceivable until and unless Indo-Pak relations show signs of improvements. To achieve that level, both governments should work together and carry forward the peace process. Only then Indo-Pak would be able to direct huge defense outlays to the welfare of their public.

 

SREEKANTH

3:51 PM ET

December 1, 2011

>>>Pak wouldn't want to be

>>>Pak wouldn't want to be encircled for the very same reason the US threatened former USSR

Pak != US :-), Pak more like Bangladesh; needs to get over the fact that India is vastly superior. More to the point, the threat that Pak feels is only because of its (Pak's) hostile attitude towards India. As I've said here before, India has no designs on Pak, it doesn't need 150 million extra poorly educated and virtually unemployable people.

>>>Secondly, Kashmir conflict is between India and Pakistan.

You're just stating facts as they exist without justifying why they should be that way. In what way should Pak consider itself responsible for "injustice" to Kashmiris ? They (Punjabis, Sindhis, Pashthuns, Baloch) have no ethnic or linguistic relationship to Kashmiris. Not any more than Bengalis.

Ultimately it comes down to the Pak people being brainwashed into a hatred and hostility that's destroying them. And the Pak army is doing it to them.

 

MAIWAND

7:13 PM ET

December 1, 2011

@MIKE.MIlitis...You seem like

@MIKE.MIlitis...You seem like an official envoy of ISI on media,having read all ur postings.YOu are very much worried about Pakistan being encircled from all sides but have you ever thought why Pakistan needs to be in constant fear of that besiege? What created that sense of fear of annihilation in Pakistani generals' minds? Why Pakistani generals adopted Islamic extremism as effective foreign policy tool?If we read history, we realise it was not India who forced Bengalis to fight against Pakistan but it were the injustices committed by Paki army and establishment against them that led to reprisals! It was not India or Afghanistan who asked Paki generals to slaughter Balochs or other minorities inside Pakistan!
Secondly if Afghanistan wanted to encircle Pakistan and erase it from the map of the world, Afghanistan had several golden opportunities to do that. In 1948, 1965, 1971 Afghanistan gave full assurance to Pakistani side and didnt pursue a hypocrite, dual faced, coward policy, contrary to what Paki generals are doing now!!
Pakistan is suffering from a self-imposed political paranoia, whereby she has created all risks for herself, she has created all internal and external enemies for herself.Tell me how many countries in the world would have a positive image of Pakistan? Do u think Pakistan is an angel and all her problems are created by India and Afghanistan and she has the right to justify her concerns, pointing to these two states.Do u think that India or Afghanistan asked Paki generals to let the madrassa culture mashroom on its soil and produce millions of terrorist for the world, including the ones wandering on streets of london and new york???
THE REALITY IS THAT PAKISTAN IS FULLY SUBMERGED IN ITS OWN SHIT ( a shit of terrorism) which is akin to her survival and is also trying to put every single state on earth into this shit as well.The choice the comity of nations have is to either put its fingers into this mess and get this menace to their socities and lands or tell Pakistan to stop growing this dirty corpse once for ever.The BOTTOM LINE IS THAT PAKISTAN CAN'T JUSTIFY USING TERRORISM TO SECURE ITS INTERESTS, NO MATTER HOW GENUINE THOSE INTERESTS MIGHT BE FOR HER. IF WE ALLOW TERRORISM AS A POLITICAL TOOL, WE GOT TO BE EXPECTING 9/11 EVERY DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

RAGINCAJUN83

4:19 PM ET

November 29, 2011

nonsense

FP is hilarious sometimes... an article about Pakistan sponsoring American deaths, while US drone attacks repeatedly and consistently kill Pakistani civilians...

 

JK63

10:15 PM ET

November 29, 2011

Shocking piece of journalism

I had great respect for FP but their shocking sense of judgment has betrayed the trust of loyal readers like me. By giving space to hate-mongers so shamelessly, FP has done a huge disservice to its name and journalism. Whether its deliberate or bad editorial judgement, such writings will do nothing but add fuel to the fire, which seems to be the agenda of the writer. FP's irresponsible hate-mongering has offended every peace-loving soul in America.

 

JOEMILLER

11:54 PM ET

November 29, 2011

Great work. But why they want

Great work.
But why they want to do strike on thier own country? :@

 

GREGGHUNTSFIELD

11:57 AM ET

November 30, 2011

ohhhh wut a mess

This is obviously going to be used as a propaganda tool..and it was apparently (event thought the details haven't been released) a screw up somehow.
They are going to spread the news all over and go crazy over it and it doesn't matter what they've done in the past. I hope there is some kind of good result from it..G.R.
although at this point, I seriously doubt it
fingers crossed

 

POLAR BEAR

1:03 PM ET

November 30, 2011

Indians and their paranoia

The writer, like many Indians,commenting here, has only betrayed his pathological hatred of Pakistan. The article itself is nothing but a proprganda hit piece rehashing things e.g. generals are incharge, military supports militants blah blah blah!

I am just disappointed since FP have started to compromise the standard of scholarship by publishing such articles which other than using blistering headlines, offer no analysis or real insight on matters of foriegn policy.May be it would be better if they change the title FP to something else.

 

JAYLARTEY

5:26 PM ET

December 1, 2011

SMH

First thing people need to do is pick up a map and look at it.

It sound to me that the only way Americans can get supplies to its forces in Afghanistan is via Pakistan, what is Obama supposed to do? I don't think Iran will be offering land routes to Afghanistan for our guys to use. If Pakistan simply shuts down its airspace to us, we have at best 30 days of supply and ammunition. So, maybe Obama is approaching Pakistan cautiously because that is what the situation calls for. That seems more likely than some inane comment about "inner weakness". if people don't have money how can they live noJob Search no money its as simple as that.

 

ASIF UMER LATIF

12:49 PM ET

December 2, 2011

Simply pathetic

I started off reading the article as usual without bothering to look at the authors name. After 30 seconds it was all too obvious that it was written from an Anti-Pakistan Indian point of view. I didn't even bother to finish reading it as the script all too obvious exactly like a Bollywood movie.

 

ASIF UMER LATIF

12:50 PM ET

December 2, 2011

And by the way, Obama is

And by the way, Obama is obviously smart enough not to do what Indians want him to.

 

AMIT BHANDARI

1:15 AM ET

December 3, 2011

Pakistan should turn away from Afghanistan for its own sake

Pakistan has had a major role in making Afghanistan what it is today. For some reason, it also wants a say in how Afghanistan will be governed. I wonder how self respecting citizens of Pakistan will react if they were told that India will have a veto in the selection/election of their president.

It may be a better idea for Pakistan to give up delusions of 'strategic depth' and of ruling Afghanistan by proxy. Supporting Taliban in Afghanistan and terrorists of other stripes in India and elsewhere has not really helped Pakistan - apart from developing a reputation of being a trouble maker and trouble within its own borders. After all, its only a matter of time before the pious mujahideen turn from killing kaffirs to killing the less pious amongst their own.

Hard as it may be to digest, let NATO try and stabilize Afghanistan. Nato's presence in Pakistan's 'backyard' is partly its own doing - I don't think anyone other than a complete bigot can say that the Taliban rule in Afghanistan was a desirable thing. Pakistan doesn't face any threat to its existence, either from Afghanistan or India.

Correction: It does face an existential threat - from within. I don't think there is a global anti-Pakistan or anti-Islam conspiracy going on. Pakistan's limited resources will be much better spent within the borders - on education, healthcare and de-radicalization of the society. This is a tough enough project without Pakistan getting into needless fights to 'control' Afghanistan.

 

KHANJEE

9:01 AM ET

December 5, 2011

Amit Bhandari

If India is really interested in establishing peace and harmony in the region in general and Afghanistan in particular, it should carryout an objective introspection of its policies. By donating a billion dollar to reconstruct Afghanistan and extending some other favors to Karzai regime, Indian leadership has strengthened its grip in Afghanistan. Now, using the Afghan soil, India is deeply involved in fomenting troubles in Pakistan. Unfortunately, these Indian activities are supported, or at least ignored, by Afghan Government and US -led ISAF as well to keep Pakistan under pressure and force it to yield to their demands of 'do more'.
The so-called / alleged 'strategic depth' sought by Pakistan in Afghanistan is not a reality. Till the time, Pakistan has a stable and peaceful Afghanistan, which is free of hostile foreign influences impinging upon Its security and stability; Pakistan has no problem with Afghanistan. Indian grand designs of posing 'two front' dilemma to Pakistan, using the Afghan soil, is obviously what irks Pakistan, which is it's genuine concern.
India needs to realize that by destabilizing Pakistan, it will not do any service to it's pampered desires of establishing peace and harmony in the region.
Pakistan's peace overtures towards India, including offer of extending MFN status, are to be reciprocated sincerely by India and, in this regard, abondoning use of Afghan soil to target Pakistan clandestinely should be pursued.
US and other members of NATO should objectively analyse what trecherous game India is playing in Afghanistan, using their shoulders, to settle it's scores withPakistan. They must realize that winning Pakistan's optimum cooperation for bringing lasting peace in Afghanistan and their smooth exit from the region, is contingent upon curtailing India's anti - Pakistan activities in Afghanistan. This is a reality; whether US reckons it sooner or later.

 

AMIT BHANDARI

2:35 AM ET

December 6, 2011

Fomenting troubles in Pakistan?!

Speaking of Pakistan's peace overtures to India, let me share my experience. I live in Mumbai. About three years back - 26 November 2008, we had 11 goodwill ambassadors from Pakistan sailing into Mumbai - the carnage they caused killed over 150 people. The places they targeted - Leopold Cafe, Taj, Oberoi - are places I frequent, my friends go to. About a dozen of my friends had been to Leopold's just a week before 26/11. Incidentally, some of these ambassadors of peace from Pakistan were captured on CCTV, and one of them is currently awaiting a death sentence in an Indian prison. Imagine!! India sentences to death an ambassador of peace from the Western border! I could also point out to a bigger peace overture from Pakistan, that happened in a place called Kargil, around 1999. If there is any trouble being fomented or treachery being committed, I think any sane person can agree on who's doing it.

As for MFN status, I believe India extended it to Pakistan sometime in 2002. I think India had offered help (much more than most other countries) when Pakistan was hit by a serious flood last year.

Pakistan has genuine concerns in Afghanistan, India (or everyone else for that matter), has only grand designs. Don't you think there is some serious lack of balance here somewhere?

 

NADEEM IQBAL

9:44 AM ET

December 3, 2011

Correct The Record

I think you need to check the statistics of civilian casualties of war on terrorism:-
1 million plus in Iraq
1 million in Afghanistan
Recent blatant agression on Libya and so on a long list
Who is terrorist? Please dont distort the facts.
Let me assure you as long NATO / US are in the region, for their interest, they will not suceed in stabilzing this region.
I suggest you to write an article comparing casualties "Civilian versus US Soldiers" in the region to know who is victim.
Let me quote: "The greatest crime after WW-II is US Foreign policy-Ramse Clarke"
Every nation has the right to defend himself by all available means at his disposal and thats what Pakistan is doing.

 

SHAWN BROWN

11:40 PM ET

December 4, 2011

no good..

This is going to create problems throughout the world for generations. I cannot even put into words how this troubles me. fast cash commissions review

 

PST

4:31 AM ET

December 5, 2011

Don't shoot the messenger

Foreign Affairs article on Pak-Us relations. A broader view the above article but, in summary, equally damning of the current Pak situation.

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/136696/stephen-d-krasner/talking-tough-to-pakistan

 

KHANJEE

4:32 AM ET

December 5, 2011

Generals have no clothes

Feel extremely sorry to see that the once so prestigious standards of FP have gone so low that a parochial article, reflective of an extremely perverted mindset of the author can find space in here. Incredible, to say the least.
The fact of the matter is that our Indian friends waste no opportunity in castigating Pakistan, disregarding the importanceof the issue under discussion. I think there are limits to hatered. Indian strategic community has to acknowledge and reconcile with the reality of Existence of Pakistan.
Pakistan,being a neighbour of Afghanistan has legitimate interests in its final settlement. Indian efforts are unfortunately aimed at establishing unchallenged regional hegemony and, in this quest, it continues to play it's machvilian role. India should know it clearly that it's dreams of attaining world power status will remain unfulfilled till it improves it's image and approach towards it's neighbours. Gen MacCrysthal, Bruce Riedel and many thinking Americans have clearly highlighted Indian efforts to keep tight control over the future Afghanistan to hedge against Pakistan and China.
I am convinced that Afghanistan issue would have settled amicably so far, and NATO forces withdrawn, had India not tried to play games aimed at destabilization of Pakistan using Afghan soil.
Moral of the story: solution to Afghanistan quagmire passes from New Delhi.

 

CUTBULLA

2:07 PM ET

December 7, 2011

U.S. subsidy to killing its own soldiers.?

--U.S. provides military aid to pakistanis.Pakistani army sends jehadists in Afganistan to kill U.S. soldiers.
Ordinary American citizens must seek an explanation --it seems american aid is meant to kill its own soldiers.

 

HANNAWE

2:29 PM ET

December 11, 2011

Pakistan an ally

Whatever it is, the solution is not going to be easy. Pakistan has to be an ally. But US cannot forget its fallen soldiers and the price paid. costs

 

YARINSIZ

4:17 PM ET

December 24, 2011

And to shrug off Baluchi,

And to shrug off Baluchi, Pahstun and Sindhi desires as just something a handful of warlords want, is not correct. Tseslichat he Baluchis very clearly want to break away, and the Pashtuns have never considered themselves part of Pakistan, though their concept of a state is very different from ours. The Sindhis, all right, would probably not take it too badly if only they were treated better by the Punjabis, but as it stands, that doesn't look like it's going to happen.

 

WILLRIVERA

2:14 PM ET

December 25, 2011

Taliban and al Qaeda amply subsidized

The way in which it, within their struggle for safeguarding the nation's interests, countries frequently employ double-standards. We've exactly the same case here. The united states and also the remainder of World could be rather best by supporting the elected governments in Pakistan and consolidating democracy. I only say this since the US along with other tattoos countries have the influence to create that possible. Inclination to realizing short-term gains over long-term losses needs to be shunned no matter what.