Claiming that Zionism is fundamentally racism and unending war sounds less than legitimate from somebody who clearly supports a messianic, authoritarian regime that kills its own citizens and seems to be pining for its imperialist past.

Also, this is not an accurate translation. I have previously done it myself for work (not to mention the many other statements Ahmadinejad has made that are even less ambiguous...if that's even possible...):

"What he said in accurate translation was this: 'The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time". The point being that it is an unjust and Apartheid régime. Like Apartheid South Africa or the communist Soviet Union.'"

But goings I war with Iran won't?

You are no liberal, you're liebral Zionist, which is an oxymoron.

Iran has not attacked or invaded any other state in 270 years, so based that track record, leaving Iran alone will not lead to war.

>> Claiming that Zionism is fundamentally racism and unending war sounds less than legitimate from somebody who clearly supports a messianic, authoritarian regime that kills its own citizens and seems to be pining for its imperialist past.

Where did you Lift that diatribe from Mr Liberal? Atlas Shrugs or Jihad Watch?

http://www.plzzshop.com is SPAM. Why is it still here?

Enough said.

Just because a historical equivalence relates to Jews (and particularly the Holocaust), does not make it automatically invalid.

Usually I would continue by saying, "and neither does it make it fundamentally valid (as the Right might have you believe)," but the left has become so, so much worse on this issue without even realizing it. As a young liberal, I grew up thinking that only Conservatives took part in anti-semitic discourse. As an older liberal, I've had to come to terms with the idea that the most accepted forms of anti-semitic discourse today come from my own political persuasion. It may not always be as flamboyantly virulent, but it's mundane, academic, constancy is much, much more dangerous.

There are 25,000 Jews living in Iran who have refused generous financial incentives to migrate to Israel. Now why would that be if the second holocaust was imminent?

>> Usually I would continue by saying, "and neither does it make it fundamentally valid (as the Right might have you believe)," but the left has become so, so much worse on this issue without even realizing it.

Yes, the left really dropped the ball on Iraq and his nucleaar stockpiles didn't they?

>> As an older liberal, I've had to come to terms with the idea that the most accepted forms of anti-semitic discourse today come from my own political persuasion. It may not always be as flamboyantly virulent, but it's mundane, academic, constancy is much, much more dangerous.

Our society has become rightly sensitied to any hint of anti semtism, which is a good thing, but It's had the unfortunate side affect of leading some to look for anti semitism where the isn't any.

What you are conflating is anti semitism with justified criticism of Israel. You might consider yourself a liberal. But I suspect to are a PEP (progressive except for Palestine).

perfect reply. You will come to see that this will produce a lot of income in the nation ;)

at what he saw in the West Bank when he visited. As his cavalcade took him through the Bethlehem, Bush witnessed the brutality of occupation and said "this is awful".

The entire EU just condemned the settlements as the major obstacle to the two state solution. At the. UN, 14 of the 15 UNSC members voted to condem the settlements.

It was Obama that veto'd it.

So according to the political whore, Jackson, everyone but the US is left wing.

I would very much agree with you on one specific
ptc point but will concur with
most unique foreign policy issues as presented.

Obama out did Hillary at grovelling and kow towing in front of the AIPAC crowd before the 2008 elections. He continues to assure them of his commitment to grovelling. If he really hated Israel as much as you suggest, he would do something for the American people: He would order all the despicable lies about Iran to be stopped at the State Department and fire all the Zionist zealots in Government that continue to work hard to carry out the Israeli propaganda BS. He would say very loudly to all the members of Congress, including the Zionist zealots with dual Israeli/US citizenship to stop their lies about Iran working on Nukes. If he really hated Israel as you suggest, he would point out that all the sanctions, embargoes, proposed anti-missile systems in Europe, and the constant saber rattling toward Iran is based on a huge pack of lies about Iran building Nukes. If he really hated Israel, he would tell the CIA to stop working with the Israelis to create computer programs such as the Stuxnet virus. He could also disavow the secret Bush program to spend $400 million to try to destabilize the Iran government if he really hates the Israelis. There are still other ways he could show us how he hates Israel, but by now you should get the picture.

But Neteyahu is at the forefront of demanding the world stop Iran obtaining a nuke.

>> Iran has no legitimate concerns for Israel or the Palestinians.

Iran doesn't claim to.

>> Any connection there is couched in terms of the fact that Iran funds Hamas and their campaign to prevent any peaceful co-existence between both peoples.

Absolute rubbish. Hamas have supported a two state solution since 2005 while Netenyahu successfully campaigned on a platform of rejection of the 2ss.

>> Its part of their ongoing strategy of extending the reach of their power through proxy forces (see Lebanon)

>>Btw those who sincerely believe Iran is developing nuclear power for civilian purposes, you are either the most naive people out there, in the employ of the Iranian government or fucking morons.

No you are the moron.

1. The reactor at Bushehr came on line earlier this year and is indeed producing electricity
2. The IAEA has confirmed for the umpteenth time the non diversion of all nuclear material from it's civilian nuclear program

>> A country with such vast oil reserves and few uranium deposits doesn't have the need or resources to make such things economically viable.

Rubbish.

The Ford administration stated that it would be wise for Iran to diversify it's energy sources, especially seeing as Iran's income is largely generated through oil sales.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2067

Furthermore, the US supplied Iean with it's first nuclear reactor. Not only that, but the reactor was a TRIGA type research reactor that took furpel enriched to 90% (which is practically bomb grade). After the Iranian Revolution, Tehran decommissioned the reator and had it modified to operate on 20% enriched fuel.

Hardly the actions of a government intent on obtaining nukes.

>> As for Iran's nuclear program, its a well orchestrated sham being used to incite international conflict. They need something to bolster the ever weakening regime.

If it was a sham, they would never have brought the reactor on line or opened their program to the most intrusive nprction regime in history.

>> hardliners need to play up nuclear gamesmanship to justify further repression and put the nation in a siege mentality.

Simplistic and ignorant perception of Iran. The nuclear program is widely supported by both sides of politics. Even the Green movement supports it.

>> Iran is bluffing, we haven't escalated much against them because there isn't much need to do more.

True.

>>But Neteyahu is at the forefront of demanding the world stop Iran obtaining a nuke.

Iran threatening to wipe your country off the map tends to make you a little edgy about such things. But of course you ignore such things.

>> Iran has no legitimate concerns for Israel or the Palestinians.
>Iran doesn't claim to.

Except it was the whole point of your prior post here. You can't even stay consistent with your own statements. You can't even keep your own lies straight anymore.

>>>Absolute rubbish. Hamas have supported a two state solution since 2005 while Netenyahu successfully campaigned on a platform of rejection of the 2ss.

What planet are you from? Hamas's very charter is dedicated to a one-state judenfrei solution since inception. GTFO
http://www.adl.org/main_israel/hamas_charter.htm

>>Btw those who sincerely believe Iran is developing nuclear power for civilian purposes, you are either the most naive people out there, in the employ of the Iranian government or fucking morons.

>1. The reactor at Bushehr came on line earlier this year and is indeed producing electricity

As well as enriched uranium. Not enough electricity to make much of a difference, not enough for military use yet. But they are making a big show of the efforts made to world media.

>2. The IAEA has confirmed for the umpteenth time the non diversion of all nuclear material from it's civilian nuclear program

Yet they are consistently barred from certain facilities in order to play up their potential for nuclear weapons.

>>>The Ford administration stated that it would be wise for Iran to diversify it's energy sources, especially seeing as Iran's income is largely generated through oil sales.

Its nice you use pre-Islamic revolution/pre-1970's gas crisis sources. Do you have anything less than 30 years old that might actually be relevant

>>Furthermore, the US supplied Iean with it's first nuclear reactor. Not only that, but the reactor was a TRIGA type research reactor that took furpel enriched to 90% (which is practically bomb grade). After the Iranian Revolution, Tehran decommissioned the reator and had it modified to operate on 20% enriched fuel.
Hardly the actions of a government intent on obtaining nukes.

Which is it? Did they decommission the reactor or is it operating on 20% fuel. You can't even keep your story straight in your own sentences.

>>If it was a sham, they would never have brought the reactor on line or opened their program to the most intrusive nprction regime in history.

That makes no sense at all if you knew anything about nuclear weapons production. Its clear that is also a topic Nuclear weapons require large amounts of very difficult to obtain fissile material. An online reactor is just a beginning step to a time consuming and expensive enrichment process. If you say you are making nukes nobody will take you seriously without a reactor. Iran did enough to be taken seriously by the rest of the world, not enough to actually further such a goal. But they are gladly playing up efforts to that effect.

>>.Simplistic and ignorant perception of Iran. The nuclear program is widely supported by both sides of politics. Even the Green movement supports it.

Lying sack of shit, they oppose it.

http://www.iran-e-sabz.org/program/program.html

"The Green Party of Iran believes that engaging in war with another country is never acceptable. Disagreements, whether political or border disputes, that can not be resolved diplomatically, must be resolved by competent international organizations."

"The Green Party of Iran would ensure that all nuclear, chemical and biological weapon programs be stopped and that and nuclear reactors and factories capable of producing nuclear, chemical and biological agents would be dismantled under the supervision of the proper international regulatory bodies."

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2011/06/10/242283/green-movement-iran-regime-drop-two-bombs/
"The regime would really like for someone to come drop two bombs on Natanz [an Iranian nuclear facility]. This would then increase nationalism and the regime would gather everyone and all the political parties around itself."

>> IIran threatening to wipe your country off the map tends...

Iran did not threaten to wipe anyone off the map. That lie was debunked more than 6 years.

I'm sure you know this, so why repeat the lie?

>> Except it was the whole point of your prior post here.

Plead quote the statement I made that Iran is concerned about Palestinians.

And when you can't, I expect an apology..

>>>What planet are you from? Hamas's very charter is dedicated to a one-state judenfrei solution since inception. 

Hamas 

>> As well as enriched uranium. Not enough electricity to make much of a difference, not enough for military use yet.

Rubbish. Iran's had enriched entry if LEU to operate their nuclear powered plant at Bushehr. Where did you get such a stupid idea you ignorant troll?

>>  But they are making a big show of the efforts made to world media.

So what? They are proud of their achievement. The trouble with Islamophobes like you is that you look at any technological achievement by Muslim countries with suspicion.

>> Yet they are consistently barred from certain facilities in order to play up their potential for nuclear weapons.

Rubbish. They allowed the IAEA to inspect all the facilities they were obligated to under the NPT, including many they were not obliged to.

The IAEA has no right or authority to look anywhere else. It is the IARAEL who have made a big deal if this, not Iran.

>>Its nice you use pre-Islamic revolution/pre-1970's gas crisis sources. Do you have anything less than 30 years old that might actually be relevant

How is that not relevant? Iran was an oil/gas producing nation then and it is now. In fact, there was less pressure for countries to look for alternative sources of energy at the time, and the same war hawks who are today pretending that Iran has no need for nuclear power today were arguing that Iran would be wise to invest in nuclear power back then.

So what has the 1970's gas crisis got to do with anything you idiot? The oil that was in the ground then is still in the ground now.

>> Which is it? Did they decommission the reactor or is it operating on 20% fuel. 

Look it up you ignorant troll. The research reactor they have today (running on 20% enriched fuel) is the repurposed TRIGA reactor the US built for them. To redesign it, they had to decommission it.

>>That makes no sense at all if you knew anything about nuclear weapons production.

I'm a former nuclear engineer who prepared and read countless IAEA reports, so I know enough about nuclear weapons production to call your bluff.

Its clear that is also a topic Nuclear weapons require large amounts of very difficult to obtain fissile material. 

>> An online reactor is just a beginning step to a time consuming and expensive enrichment process. 

Absolute rubbish. The reactor that Iran has is a Pressurized Light Water Reactor. They are of no use whatsoever in producing nukes because they produce very little plutonium and their refueling cycle is far to long to make the plutonium they do produce of any value.

>> I you say you are making nukes nobody will take you seriously without a reactor. 

Incredibly stupid argument. Even the IAEA or the US are not suggesting the reactor has anything to do with nuclear weapons enrichment. In fact, not reactor is necessary to produce a Uranium bomb. 

You are too stupid and poorly educated to be taken seriously.

>> Lying sack of shit, they oppose it.

Read your own link you imbecile. They are opposed to nuclear weapons not nuclear power.  They oppose nuclear weapons and do does the ruling party.

That's what happens when ignoramuses don't know what they are reading.

Not only does the head if the Green Party, Mousavi support the nuclear power program, he actually munched it you idiot.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/iaea-ahmadinejad-election-rival-launched-iran-nuclear-program-1.277762

>? "The regime would really like for someone to come drop two bombs on Natan [an Iranian nuclear facility]. 
  
Even if that were true, OT does not prove that:

1. Iran is building any nuke
2. That the green party is opposed to nuclear power.

Thanks for making it so easy to smash your infantile and ignorant post.

Leave this to the adults Spood. This topic is way above your hasbra pay grade.

It has been reported widely that Hamas supports a two state solution:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/06/world/middleeast/06palestinians.html

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/05/hamas-leader-supports-two-state-solution-again/37396/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/22/israelandthepalestinians.usa

With regard to the Hamas Charter, as usual, it features among the posts despite the fact that it contains a qualifier that forbids members harm to those who have not "borne arms against you on account of religion, nor turned you out of your dwellings"

No such qualifier is seen in the founding documents of organisati­ons like Likud, Shas and Betar all of which pledge the clearance of Palestinia­ns from at least the Jordan to the sea.

The leader of Shas is well known for his pronouncem­ents calling for the "annihilat­ion of Arabs". Bear has some interestin­g ideas, not dissimilar from Sheik Yassin:

"Betar supports the concept of a Jewish state with a Jewish Majority in its biblical-h­omeland."
"The entire land of Israel as given to the Jewish people by G-d with it's eternal capital Jerusalem.­"

"100% Jewish Labor in all Jewish enterprise­s."

"Every great colonizati­on in history, has always entailed a revolt of the natives."
"Our aim is to make Betar such a world organism which, at a sign from the center, will be able simultaneo­usly to move tens of thousands of hands in the cities of all countries.­"
"Disciplin­e is the subordinat­ion of a mass to one leader"
"every Jew is a "prince" "
http://www­.betar.co.­uk/ideolog­y.php

The King's Torah is also illuminati­ng:

http://www­.countercu­rrents.org­/cook09121­0.htm

Neoleft really blew holes in your BS AIPAC logic. You really need to take time off and get some rest. You have been working too hard and the quality of your attempted insults and lies is getting pretty low. By the way, which floor do you work on in the eight story AIPAC building? We need to send a BS monitor to be installed on your computer.

Because if you were, you would know that any foreign support, especially from the US, is guaranteed to destroy the credibility of any opposition group.

Neoleft, you have already shown yourself to be a liar and an ignoramus. Your evaluations of the veracity of ANY poster are worthless.

You didn't even know that Iran has a functioning civilian power reactor.

You're nothing but a lane Hasbrat.

To try and discredit those who don`t align with your worldview (neoleft the ignorant). I am Persian and proud of my nationality and pre-Islamic culture. Enough is enough - it is time to remove these barbaric madmen. It is time for regime change in Iran - it has been far time.

>> I am Persian and proud of my nationality and pre-Islamic culture. Enough is enough - it is time to remove these barbaric madmen. 

I am no fan of the Mullahs, but the Green Movement has come out vocally to denounce US support and this would discredit the in the eyes of the Iranian public.

That leaves either the former pro Shah royalists (ie pro Savak) or the MEK Marxust Fascists aboard in favor of US intervention.

Which one are you?.

"I am no fan of the Mullahs, but the Green Movement has come out vocally to denounce US support and this would discredit the in the eyes of the Iranian public.

That leaves either the former pro Shah royalists (ie pro Savak) or the MEK Marxust Fascists aboard in favor of US intervention."

The Green Movement has no specific leaders. Do you think the Iranian people loved Mousavi? He was simply a tool for the Iranian people to get behind and express their frustrations against the regime. The Green Movement is the voice and aspirations of the Iranian people who otherwise have no voice. The Iranian people are smart - we try to reduce the numbers of deaths in the streets and going behind such leaders during demonstrations assures less deaths. Make no mistake about it - the Iranian people are not represented by any official "opposition group" inside of Iran. We demand complete secularism and an overthrow of this barbaric and illegal regime which has pillaged and destroyed our homeland.

As for the MEK, they have virtually no support inside of Iran and are an obscure and irrelevant group. As for "former Shah royalists" - the days of monarchy or at least monarchy with power is over inside of Iran. We demand a national referendum in which Iranians can decide at their own choosing and peril a secular government based on either republican, parliamentarian, or limited monarchy (i.e. England) system at a different date once liberation has been achieved and campaigning and debate has taken place. I am 27 years old. I am not a "former Savak". Saying this - Iranian of all walks of life have great respect for the Shah, despite his mistakes. He was at least a man who loved Iran and cared about Iran's future. I spent over 8-months in Iran last year and whether it was people in my family, friends, or taxi-drivers, people commonly referred to the street names as the names they were under the Shah. Despite his many faults, the Shah was not a bloodthirsty tyrant and cared for the lives of Iranians. In contrast, these maniacal madmen will sacrifice and kill every LAST Iranian to keep power.

>> The Green Movement has no specific leaders. Do you think the Iranian people loved Mousavi?

What sheer stupidity!

1. The Green Movement is a an opposition group. They are not "the Iranian people", not even the majority of the Iranian people for that matter.
2. The Green Movement have a voice, but like those demonstrating in Russia at the moment, they are a minority who can't get their way through democratic elections, so they are voicing their compaints publicly. Of course they have every right to do it, but the fact that they are doesn't make them the voice of the Iranian people.

>> He was simply a tool for the Iranian people to get behind and express their frustrations againthe regime.

Yes, we call people like him a leader. And as the leader or spokesman of the group, his role is to voice the message of the movement. Now the Green Movement has selected him to be their leader, so you are going to have to suck it up and deal with it, because he also happens to be someone who was involved in the creation of the current nuclear program.

>> The Iranian people are smart - we try to reduce the numbers of deaths in the streets and going behind such leaders during demonstrations assures less deaths.

Absolyte rubbish. As we have seen in Syria, the number of deaths are exaggerated. The numbers we are given for the deaths in Syria are not supported anywhere by the data. In Iran, the deaths, while all an outrage, are surprisingly modest.

>> Make no mistake about it - the Iranian people are not represented by any official "opposition group" inside of Iran. We demand complete secularism and an overthrow of this barbaric and illegal regime which has pillaged and destroyed our homeland.

What do you mean we? You're a ex pat who left Iran more than 3 decades ago. You chose to abandon your country and save your own ass rather than remain and help build your country.

> As for the MEK, they have virtually no support inside of Iran and are an obscure and irrelevant group.

Very true, but they are very well funded and receiving enormous support in Washington.

>>. We demand a national referendum in which Iranians can decide at their own choosing and peril to a secular government based on either republican, parliamentarian, or limited monarchy (i.e. England) system at a different date once liberation has been achieved and campaigning and debate has taken place.

Sorry, but even the Green Movement has said they wish for Iran to remain Islamic, so it's not a given that the majority of Iranians would want a secular state given the choice.

>> Saying this - Iranian of all walks of life have great respect for the Shah, despite his mistakes. He was at least a man who loved Iran and cared about Iran's future.

Absolute rubbish. The Shah was despised and deservedly so, because like all tyrants, he didn't give a shit about his country or the people. He was a brutal, sadistic, narcicistic, self serving son of a bitch who sold out his state and was only concerned with his own power and well being.

He disappeared over 10,000 people during his reign. Is that not bloodthirsty enough for you? Is that caring for the lives of Iranians?

And obviously an appeaser to evil "neoleft". This conversation is over. Others have judged your character correctly.

You're a fool

You're a liar.

You're response to Spood's incoherent blather below is text book Zionist response.

Pro Israeli trolls love to come to forums like these and pose as Arabs/Muslims/Iranians and try to con others into thinking they have some credibility. The trouble is that you Hasbrats are bad at lying - which is surprising given that you do it all the time.

You've been exposed, so yes, I guess the conversation is over until you return with another account and another name, pretending to be someone you ain't.

Everything to you is "Zionist this", "Zionist that" or some conspiracy. You are what we call a kos khol.

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The political sides of those governments have fallen for the propaganda and lies of the Israelis and parrot all the talking points from Israel, "The Sky is Falling". At the same time the intelligence side of the US and even Israel say there is no indication that Iran is working on Nukes. The Generals at the Pentagon had to tell Leon Penetta to tone down his wild charge that Iran would have a Nuke in a year if they had a hidden place to build it. The basic argument in this article is spot on, that all of our sanctions hurt us as much as it does Iran. If you read "PressTV" from Iran, you will find that the Pakis will build the gas pipline that the US Ambassador was whining they shouldn't build because Iran is unreliable. We would give the Paki Ambassador the boot if he started making statements like this about the proposed pipeline from Canada to Texas.

>>You are dealing in deliberately obvious half-truths and fictions.

You don't know the first thing about was is true or otherwise.

>> Hamas has not sworn off its goals of Israel's destruction and will not negotiate with Israel

Israel has never agreed to negotiate with Hamas. . What they said and what they do are two different things. As I pointed out, Netenyahu successfully campaigned on a platform rejection the creation of a Palestinian state.

Even when Bibbi flip flopped on the issue, he refused to lay out his plan for the 2ss because in reality, he knows that his real plans would shtick and disgust the world.

>> Their version of a 2 state solution is Gaza and the West Bank with a blank space in between.

Zionist hysteria.

>> Like yourself, they are used to talking out of their sphincter in public

You mean like Nentenyahu who pretends to talk peace but was caught basting in private about how he sabotaged the Oslo accords?

>> "Mahmoud al-Zahar, a senior Hamas leader who participated in the talks [between Hamas and Fatah] said that peace with Israel was not on the table.

He's not a leader if Hamas. The leaders is Meshaal and he remains consistent in his support for a 2ss. Remover that Lieberman, Israel's fascist foreign minister has not only denounced any peace agreement, but threatened to bomb the Aswan Dam.

As for recognition, it has to be mutual. Hamas are under no obligation to recognize Israel until Israel recognizes the state of Palestine, as have over 100 other states.

>> Because it was part of a major push by the American nuclear power industry to market themselves abroad in the pre-3 Mile Island political climate.

Irrelevant. You're making up BS as you go along.

The US government not only made the case that It would be wise for Iran to diversify their energy sources, but they sold and built a research reactor for Iran. Those who made the case include war criminals like Wolfowotz, Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney.

Back when the US could sell nuclear reactors to allies with a straight face. Historical context is everything.

>>Not at all. Unlike yourself, I bother to see things in a full context.

That's hillarious. You don't even know what you are talking about. You didn't even know Iran already had an operating nuclear power reactor and more than enough fuel to keep it ipertions for over a decade.

The party creating a phony nuclear controversy is Washingtonand Tel Aviv, who've been falsely predicting that Iran were 6 months away from making a nuke since 1984.

>>If this was going on in Egypt, Turkey or most North African states nobody would bat an eye.

And why would that be? Because they are either allies or on the US payrol, and everyone knows that when it comes to being a friend of Washington, the rules don't apply. The US is violating it's on Symongton Mendment by selling and nuclear technology to India and Pakistan.

The controversy is nothing more than a case of rampant double standards and hypocrisy.

You haven't got a clue what you are talking about.

>>Of course they are. If they didn't we would not be having this conversation in the first place.

Alsbolute rubicon, the controversy, even the hawks, is not about the rector at Bushehr. It's purely about uranium enrichment.

>> How can you justify enriching uranium without having a reactor to at least pretend you are using it for something else?

The IAEA has related for more than dozen occasions that they are NOT using it for someone else. There is no evidence that they Re enriching for anything else because the IAEA has all of their enrichment facilities under 24/7 surveillance.

So in other words, you've got nothing and you're just making up more of your BS.

> Obviously the Green party doesn't believe Iran's nuclear program is a civilian one either.

Really. Provide the statement to this effect by the Greeb Party or admit you are bald faced liar. As I explained to your dumb ass, the head of th Green Party was involved in the creation of this nuclear program that you insist is to make nuclear weapons.

At no point has he stated that Iran are producing nukes, so again, you are proven to be a liar,

>> The fact of the matter is, if their intentions were truly peaceful, they would be more cooperative with the west on the subject. But they aren't.

False. They are meeting every obligation under the NPT to the letter of the law. The US is pushing the IAEA to request information they have no business asking for. And even afar being 100% in. Opiate with the NPT, the West still managed to push for resolutions and sanctions demanding that Iran give up it's inaliable rights under the NPT.

In 2005/2005, Iran gave up enrichment and agreed to temporarily implement the additional protocols while the E3 came up with a proposal. The E3 missed the first deadline, and Iran gave them an additional 6 months. When the E3 missed the second deadline, Iran canned the idea.

That experience convinced the Iranians that there is nothing to gain from being more cooperative than they have to. All that Washington will do is continue to make more and more demands and give nothing back.

>> They want a conflict with the west.

False. It is the West and Israel that is insisting all options are on the table, not Iran.

>> They know very well the US isn't going to go to war with Iran over this. We know very well that Iran isn't close to building a nuke.

So you just. Ntradited yourself. On one hand , you're insisting they are going to extraordinary lengths to hide their nuclear weans program behind a civilian one but insist they aren't close to making a nuke.

Do why is Washington and Tel Aviv running around like Chicken little with their hair on fire, insisting that the world is in danger? Are the leaders of Tehran so clever that they've got thee West fooled?

>> Countries with legitimate nuclear weapons intentions aren't so fucking obvious about their efforts.

You idiot. There is no such thing as legitimate nuclear weapons intentions. You're comply opening your mouth to change feet.

>>Of course if Iran really was building a nuke, you wouldn't say very much because of their stated intention to destroy Israel.

That lie has been debunked. Why do you insist or releatingn it?

>> Yet its amazing how much you are willing to take a theocratic dictatorship' at face value as long as they oppose someone you don't like either.

Whi's taking them at face value? I haven't cited a single source that comes from Iran's leadership. You're so unhinged that you are simply making up this argument as you go along.

You're medication creaky isn't working.

>>You are dealing in deliberately obvious half-truths and fictions.

You don't know the first thing about was is true or otherwise.

>> Hamas has not sworn off its goals of Israel's destruction and will not negotiate with Israel

Israel has never agreed to negotiate with Hamas. . What they said and what they do are two different things. As I pointed out, Netenyahu successfully campaigned on a platform rejection the creation of a Palestinian state.

Even when Bibbi flip flopped on the issue, he refused to lay out his plan for the 2ss because in reality, he knows that his real plans would shtick and disgust the world.

>> Their version of a 2 state solution is Gaza and the West Bank with a blank space in between.

Zionist hysteria.

>> Like yourself, they are used to talking out of their sphincter in public

You mean like Nentenyahu who pretends to talk peace but was caught basting in private about how he sabotaged the Oslo accords?

>> "Mahmoud al-Zahar, a senior Hamas leader who participated in the talks [between Hamas and Fatah] said that peace with Israel was not on the table.

He's not a leader if Hamas. The leaders is Meshaal and he remains consistent in his support for a 2ss. Remover that Lieberman, Israel's fascist foreign minister has not only denounced any peace agreement, but threatened to bomb the Aswan Dam.

As for recognition, it has to be mutual. Hamas are under no obligation to recognize Israel until Israel recognizes the state of Palestine, as have over 100 other states.

>> Because it was part of a major push by the American nuclear power industry to market themselves abroad in the pre-3 Mile Island political climate.

Irrelevant. You're making up BS as you go along.

The US government not only made the case that It would be wise for Iran to diversify their energy sources, but they sold and built a research reactor for Iran. Those who made the case include war criminals like Wolfowotz, Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney.

Back when the US could sell nuclear reactors to allies with a straight face. Historical context is everything.

>>Not at all. Unlike yourself, I bother to see things in a full context.

That's hillarious. You don't even know what you are talking about. You didn't even know Iran already had an operating nuclear power reactor and more than enough fuel to keep it ipertions for over a decade.

The party creating a phony nuclear controversy is Washingtonand Tel Aviv, who've been falsely predicting that Iran were 6 months away from making a nuke since 1984.

>>If this was going on in Egypt, Turkey or most North African states nobody would bat an eye.

And why would that be? Because they are either allies or on the US payrol, and everyone knows that when it comes to being a friend of Washington, the rules don't apply. The US is violating it's on Symongton Mendment by selling and nuclear technology to India and Pakistan.

The controversy is nothing more than a case of rampant double standards and hypocrisy.

You haven't got a clue what you are talking about.

>>Of course they are. If they didn't we would not be having this conversation in the first place.

Alsbolute rubicon, the controversy, even the hawks, is not about the rector at Bushehr. It's purely about uranium enrichment.

>> How can you justify enriching uranium without having a reactor to at least pretend you are using it for something else?

The IAEA has related for more than dozen occasions that they are NOT using it for someone else. There is no evidence that they Re enriching for anything else because the IAEA has all of their enrichment facilities under 24/7 surveillance.

So in other words, you've got nothing and you're just making up more of your BS.

> Obviously the Green party doesn't believe Iran's nuclear program is a civilian one either.

Really. Provide the statement to this effect by the Greeb Party or admit you are bald faced liar. As I explained to your dumb ass, the head of th Green Party was involved in the creation of this nuclear program that you insist is to make nuclear weapons.

At no point has he stated that Iran are producing nukes, so again, you are proven to be a liar,

>> The fact of the matter is, if their intentions were truly peaceful, they would be more cooperative with the west on the subject. But they aren't.

False. They are meeting every obligation under the NPT to the letter of the law. The US is pushing the IAEA to request information they have no business asking for. And even afar being 100% in. Opiate with the NPT, the West still managed to push for resolutions and sanctions demanding that Iran give up it's inaliable rights under the NPT.

In 2005/2005, Iran gave up enrichment and agreed to temporarily implement the additional protocols while the E3 came up with a proposal. The E3 missed the first deadline, and Iran gave them an additional 6 months. When the E3 missed the second deadline, Iran canned the idea.

That experience convinced the Iranians that there is nothing to gain from being more cooperative than they have to. All that Washington will do is continue to make more and more demands and give nothing back.

>> They want a conflict with the west.

False. It is the West and Israel that is insisting all options are on the table, not Iran.

>> They know very well the US isn't going to go to war with Iran over this. We know very well that Iran isn't close to building a nuke.

So you just. Ntradited yourself. On one hand , you're insisting they are going to extraordinary lengths to hide their nuclear weans program behind a civilian one but insist they aren't close to making a nuke.

Do why is Washington and Tel Aviv running around like Chicken little with their hair on fire, insisting that the world is in danger? Are the leaders of Tehran so clever that they've got thee West fooled?

>> Countries with legitimate nuclear weapons intentions aren't so fucking obvious about their efforts.

You idiot. There is no such thing as legitimate nuclear weapons intentions. You're comply opening your mouth to change feet.

>>Of course if Iran really was building a nuke, you wouldn't say very much because of their stated intention to destroy Israel.

That lie has been debunked. Why do you insist or releatingn it?

>> Yet its amazing how much you are willing to take a theocratic dictatorship' at face value as long as they oppose someone you don't like either.

Whi's taking them at face value? I haven't cited a single source that comes from Iran's leadership. You're so unhinged that you are simply making up this argument as you go along.

You're medication creaky isn't working.

Neoliar is exactly what that fool is. An anti-Semitic appeaser to Islamic fascism.

I knew you were no Iranian or Persian.

You just proved it.

>> You haven't cited a single source which was credible support either.

So you admit you lied whe you accused me to taking the Iranian leadership at their word.

At least you can say sorry.

>>You miss the point moron. I was talking about countries who really want to make nukes.

But you just said Iran wants to make nukes. Can you please try and keep your story straight, because you are contradicting yourself all over the place.

>> They don't crow about their uranium enrichment process to the world (I'm sorry, "leak the information" in a coy manner). Iran is playing at making nuclear weapons without actually going through the expensive messy details.

That has to be just about those stupid and branded argument I have ever heard. What possible motive or advantage could there be for Iran pretending to be making nukes, but not making one? They can't possibly. Defeat the US militarily, so what do they hope to gain from a military confrontation?

>> . You are doing a piss poor job in trying to show why such ideas do not have merit. You are wedded to supporting whatever contention attacks the west in general.

You are doing a far worse job of proving your argument. Dictatorships only require a hostile environment to hang on to power when because they are a minority. The Iranian government enjoys majority support and supports the majority religious and ethnic group in Iran.

Simply put, your theory doesn't hold water.

>>I already provided the statement, you tried to pretend it meant something else

Stop lying. The statement you provided stated that the Green party was opposed to nuclear weapons, which happens to be the official position of the ruling party also. The statement said nothing about accusing the government of making nukes.

Fail!

>> One the "lie" about Iran's rhetoric about using its mythical nuclear weapons has hardly been debunked. Certainly not by you.

No Iranian leader hs ever threatened to use nukes, so you are lying. I could ask you to produce a link to t statement by any Iranian Lear threatening to use nukes, but I now you can't.

It doesn't exist.

>>. If someone opposes or claims to Israel, you jump right on the bandwagon, no matter what it is. No matter how asinine and phony the contention, you will go along with it.

One could say Thames thing about you and jumping on the bandwagon about any topic to do with Iran or Israel.

>>I am saying they are going to extraordinary lengths to DISPLAY a nuclear weapons program to the world in an obvious manner. A bluff.

The only program they are displaying go the world is a civilian nuclear power program. They are not bluffing. The program exists and it works. The Bushehr reactor is now online producing ele trinity.

That is the only thing they have DISPLAYED. They are undated ably proud of what they have achived because they have achieved it in spite of huge set backs and obstacles like the sanctions and embargo on components, technology etc.

You're nothing but a lying Isralei trolls who is trying desperately to pollute these threads with your incoherent pro Zionst diaribes.

There is little you can do with minds like Spood’s and there are many of them. I believe their problem, for problem it appears from this side of the mirror, arises from a deep-rooted, and doubtless unconscious, cultural peculiarity, a comfort in faith based convictions common to early mythopeic thinking and surviving in the Judeo-Christian tradition largely unaffected by reason which demands the critical questioning of evidence. It comforts such people to join odd pieces in ways that provide simplistic scenarios, scenarios which can be fairly persuasive when expounded to others like them but appear nonsense to the more intellectually enlightened. Spood has faith that he is right whereas Neoleft has reached his conclusions by examining the available evidence in a critical manner. However, Spood is in the majority and his faith motivated ilk determine much in our lives, too frequently immersing us in unintended chaos which a rational mind might well have been able to avoid.

It’s unbelievable my buddy's step-sister makes USD77/hr on the internet. She has been out of work for 5 months but last month her income was USD7463 just working on the internet for a few hours. Here's the site to read more... MakeCash17.cøm

Its funny how none of you "new guys" have an argument other than the usual ad hominem and conspiracy theory mongering.

There is nothing sillier in online discussion than the employment of sockpuppets. Now we can officially call this one a disqualification on your part. If we weren't sure how dishonest you were before, we know now.

No need to feed the stinky troll anymore.