Mexican Standoff

Republicans have a historic chance to win the Hispanic vote. They're shooting themselves in the foot.

BY MICHAEL A. COHEN | JANUARY 27, 2012

For all the talk in recent Republican debates about Israel and Iran, it's a third "I" that will likely have the more significant impact on the 2012 election -- immigration (particularly of the illegal variety). For conservative activists, it is one of the issues that shapes their anger toward President Barack Obama. But whatever you think of the policy, it's the politics that matter -- and immigration is one of the key reasons Obama is likely to once again decisively win the nation's Hispanic vote.

That represents an odd turn of events. Obama's track record on immigration has hardly been a boon for Hispanics. Since taking office, enforcement of immigration laws has significantly ramped up. In all, more than 1.1 million illegal residents have been deported since Obama took office, the highest level of deportations in 60 years. Last year alone, 400,000 illegal immigrants were sent home -- a record high. In fact, Obama is on pace to deport more illegal immigrants in one term than the previous president did in two.

At the same time, the undocumented population has declined dramatically -- from more than 12 million in 2007 to just over 11 million today (and it's not because the U.S. government is suddenly handing over tons of green cards). Each year, roughly 150,000 illegal immigrants enter the country from Mexico -- during the first half of the past decade it was around 500,000 a year. While this drop is largely the result of poor economic prospects in the United States and better economic opportunities in Mexico, increased deportations has certainly done its part. And don't think these developments aren't being felt within the Hispanic community.

According to the Pew Hispanic Center, one in four Hispanics either know someone who has been deported or is in removal proceedings -- and they overwhelmingly disapprove of the president's enforcement policies. So if anything, the Republican opposition to the president's immigration stance shouldn't be that he's been too soft -- but his policies are too harsh and do too little to provide illegal immigrants with a pathway to citizenship. But you're unlikely to hear very much of that message on the campaign trail this year.

While Obama recently raised the issue of immigration reform in his State of the Union address, he has had little success in crafting a legislative path to reform (like many of his first term initiatives, it crashed on the shoals of Republican obstructionism). Rather, the instrumental effect of his policies has been to make life much more difficult for illegal immigrants.

Still, none of this has stopped the remaining Republican candidates from falling over themselves to blast the president's soft stance. Each of them have pledged that if they are elected president, the border will be more secure, enforcement will be stepped up, and citizenship for illegal immigrants will not be part of the equation. The immigration issue has become such a lightning rod in the GOP that it is now practically conventional political wisdom that Texas Gov. Rick Perry's presidential campaign was short-circuited by his defense of in-state tuition rates for illegal immigrants and his charge of "heartlessness" against those opposed to such a policy.

How does one explain this divide between rhetoric and reality? In an important new book, The Tea Party and the Remaking of Republican Conservatism, Harvard political sociologists Theda Skocpol and Vanessa Williamson argue that the anti-immigrant narrative is being driven, in large measure, by the views of the Republican base -- and in particular the Tea Party wing. According to a comprehensive 2010 national poll, illegal immigration is considered a "very serious" issue for an extraordinary 82 percent of Tea Partiers.

Traditionally, concerns about immigration, particularly in times of economic distress, tend to focus on the impact of newcomers "taking jobs" from native-born residents or are oriented around racial animus. While that is certainly a factor in Tea Party attitudes, there may be other symbolic and moral factors at work. According to Skocpol and Williamson (who interviewed countless members of the Tea Party), the major concern over immigration was related less to jobs and more to the issue of fairness, particularly "the costly use of government funds and services by illegal immigrants. Tea Party members base their moral condemnation on the fact that these are ‘lawbreakers' who crossed the border without permission and thus are using American resources unfairly."

"In large immigration states versus small immigration states, the attitude was the same among Tea Partiers," said Skocpol when I spoke to her last week. This is reflected in recent tough anti-immigration measures that have been pushed by Republicans in states on the frontlines of illegal immigration, like Arizona -- as well as in places where the issue is less pressing, like South Carolina and Alabama. Even in Massachusetts, says Skocpol, the immigration issue was a top concern among the Tea Partiers -- even though the state doesn't have a serious illegal-immigrant problem.

The fear of illegal immigration, it turns out, has less to do with proximity than resource allocation. Interviewees, said Skocpol, became particularly "emotional" when they were talking about illegal immigrants using government services that "hard-working Americans" have to pay for. Many were convinced that illegal immigrants were benefiting directly from the Affordable Care Act, a.k.a. Obamacare (something that isn't true) or were receiving Social Security benefits (also untrue). In reality, illegal immigrants are actually punished by a system into which they often must pay Social Security taxes and receive nothing in return. The fears, said Skocpol, were particularly acute among older Tea Partiers -- many of whom were convinced that the money going to provide services for hordes of illegal immigrants would mean reduced Medicare benefits.

Now, one might assume that concerns over immigration are also animated by racial animus -- after all, Tea Partiers are overwhelmingly white and the movement, as a whole, tends to demonstrate more racially intolerant views than the rest of the population. But this is perhaps a bit simplistic. Indeed, their fears of immigration are influenced as much by the changing nature of American society. Over the last several decades, the populace as a whole has become far more "colorful" than any point in American history. By one estimate racial and ethnic minorities accounted for a stunning 83 percent of U.S. population growth in the 2000s. Not only are Hispanics the fastest growing population group in the United States; by 2050, an estimated 30 percent of the population will be of Hispanic origin.

While demographic change is not new, it's the nature of that change today that is so different. The United States is well on its way to being a "minority-majority" population. Illegal immigration then isn't so much problem in of itself as a synecdoche for larger changes in American society, and ones viewed with not just discomfort but horror. You have, says Skocpol, a great many Americans who "believe that their country is being taken away" and illegal immigration is simply indicative of this transformation.

Not surprisingly, much of this anxiety is further perpetuated by the presence of a black, cosmopolitan man with a foreign father and strange sounding name sitting in the Oval Office. For many Tea Partiers, says Skocpol, he is the epitome of everything they mistrust about what is happening in America today -- prima facie evidence of the social and cultural changes that concern them most. (This also explains why GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney tends to contrast Obama's pledge to "transform" the country with his own pledge to "restore" it.)

What is perhaps most fascinating about these sentiments is that they bear striking similarity to the white backlash of the late 1960s. Then, there was a rising belief among many working-class Americans that they were being squeezed by liberal social engineers who were using their taxpayer dollars to dole out welfare benefits to poor blacks in America's inner cities. Back then, the resentment bred by such perceptions shifted the very trajectory of American politics. It provided Republicans with a boost to their anti-government, conservative, populist message -- which resonated so deeply with white working-class voters. It's a message that still colors the country's political debates today.

Today's illegal immigrant backlash may likewise reshape politics -- but in a way uniquely destructive to Republicans. The Tea Party's passion on illegal immigration is not shared by the wider electorate -- the vast majority of which is indifferent to the issue. What's more, as Republicans channel the Tea Party position on immigration, the more they risk alienating Hispanic voters, the fastest growing demographic group in the United States.

A whopping 67 percent of Hispanics identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party; a mere 20 percent self-identify as Republicans. In 2008, Obama won two-thirds of the Hispanic vote. Even with his administration's strong focus on enforcement, there is so far little reason to doubt that he won't repeat that accomplishment this November. In the past few months, however, the Obama administration has moderated its position on deportation, surely with an eye on 2012. And by even raising the possibility of a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, Obama makes good with the larger Hispanic community, which considers this a top priority.

Ironically, it wasn't long ago that Republican elites were singing a very different tune on this issue. In the 2000s, there was a significant effort by President George W. Bush -- and his political guru, Karl Rove -- to broaden the appeal of the Republican Party and bring Hispanics into the GOP fold. In 2004, the GOP netted just over 40 percent of the Hispanic vote. They were rewarded with a comprehensive immigration reform measure proposed by Bush would have created a path to political citizenship for illegal immigrants. But conservatives killed that legislation in 2007; since then, reform has been dead in Washington.

As Angela Kelley, the vice president for immigration policy and advocacy at the Center for American Progress, said to me, at one point 23 Republican Senators voted in favor of Bush's proposed legislation "Today, it's hard to imagine 23 Republican officeholders total that would support such a bill." Mitt Romney has used the immigration issue as a cudgel by which to attack both Perry and now former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich, who has floated the idea of allowing illegal residents who have lived in the country for 25 years to stay -- pending approval of their local community.

In Thursday's GOP debate, Romney defended his tough views on immigration and blasted Gingrich's efforts to label him as anti-immigrant. But Romney's defense was primarily focused on his support for legal immigration. When it comes to those crossing the border illegally, Romney's position remains one of enforcement-only. Throughout the presidential campaign, he has run to the right of the GOP field: decrying the possibility of amnesty and services that benefit illegal immigrants; calling for a veto of the Dream Act, a measure that would provide citizenship to illegal immigrants who have served in the military or attend college; spoken of a "high-tech fence" along the Mexican border; and now has floated unusual the proposal that illegal immigrants should "self-deport."

While such positions might appeal to some GOP voters, they won't do much to attract Hispanics. And in an effort to appeal to voters who are already likely to cast their ballot for the GOP, the Republican candidates are alienating a segment of the electorate that represents a crucial voting bloc come November in a host of battleground states-- New Mexico, Colorado, Florida, Arizona, and Nevada -- and even states where the Hispanic share of the population is smaller, like Pennsylvania and Virginia. And, as of yet, there is little evidence that the stern GOP position on immigration will sway many independents or Democratic voters to cross the aisle.

The irony of all this is that Obama should be having serious problems with Hispanic voters. His support for the Dream Act and comprehensive immigration reform might sound good, but the record increase in deportations speaks volumes. But, as Kelley says, the Republicans have "made it damn easy" for Obama to hold on to the Hispanic vote. The problem for Republicans is that their base is making it virtually impossible to take political advantage of this situation. So, in the end, the Hispanic vote could end up being decisive for Democrats -- but it might have more to do with the fact that they are seen as the lesser of two evils.

Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images

 

Michael A. Cohen is a regular columnist for Foreign Policy's Election 2012 Channel and a fellow at the Century Foundation. Follow him on Twitter @speechboy71.

SPOOD

12:23 PM ET

January 28, 2012

Old freaking news

The GOP torching the inroads within the Hispanic community created by GWB has been old news since the election of Obama.

Since then, the tactic has been to ignore ethnic minority votes and appeal to bigots of all stripe (who seldom vote or vote for mainstream party candidates).

Voter Fraud bulllshit is a scam to make it difficult for the elderly and poor minorities to get to the polls (and vote Democrat). For every "fraudulent" voter stopped at the polls from ID laws, 3000 legitimate voters have their rights hampered or nullified.

The anti-illegal hysteria is merely a way to divert attention away from the flagging economy through the age old tactic of scapegoating. It appeals to the dumbest, most bigoted sections of our country. We have nabobs discussing "lawbreakers" and "rule of law" who don't know jackshit about the laws being discussed. Its all a matter of going after the brown people and keeping the black ones from voting.

 

STOGIEGUY7

3:30 PM ET

January 29, 2012

Sorry, but you are dense - or choose to be

What in the heck is wrong with the concept of showing some form of ID to vote? Practically every other nation on Earth requires it. If you're legally able to vote, this should be no problem for you. The only ones disenfranchised by this are those who aren't eligible to vote in the first place. Believe me, even the "poorest" citizens (who are still pretty well off when compared with the third-world) can dig up enough ID to get their food stamps and welfare cards.

One more thing: there are immigrants and there are illegal aliens. The minute that I can just decide to stay permanently in Canada, Australia or Mexico without asking permission - and am able to enjoy all the benefits of citizenship - is the minute I'll cease having an issue with the open borders crap. Until then, follow the law.

Lumping all "immigrants" together on this issue serves the enablers of criminal behavior nicely, but it is also an insult to those millions of people who spent many years (and hundreds of dollars) to obtain LEGAL residency in the USA. Anyone who can obtain residency in this country legally is absolutely welcome - those who do not should leave and return via legal means. This is so simple, yet the Republicans are "blowing it" by backing such a policy? This is an absurd lack of recognition of a nation's legal sovereignty. Why is it OK when Mexico or Brazil demand this of their new residents, but "hateful" when the USA does the same? Even Canada isn't nearly as permissive as the USA is.

The only reason why Obama hates voter ID laws is that he'll lose thousands of illegal votes, made possible by the thugs at his favorite unions (SEIU, NAFCME, UFT). And we can't have that, now can we?

 

SPOOD

12:30 PM ET

January 30, 2012

You are ignorant as you are insistent

>>What in the heck is wrong with the concept of showing some form of ID to vote?

The fact that ID laws can be manipulated to exclude legitimate voters on the margins of society and have been used to do so in the past. What was wrong about literacy and poll taxes either, they seem reasonable on their face? Its the same argument.

I guess you are rather ignorant of our history of playing around with voter registration laws to keep people from exercising their right to vote.

Plus citizenship does not require us to carry government issued forms of IDs on our person at all times.

>>Practically every other nation on Earth requires it.

Practically every other nation doesn't have the long history of using voter requirement laws to disenfranchise portions of their population like we do.

In order to keep 1 fraudulent vote out of a million from the polls you will exclude 3000 legitimate voters. There is never an excuse to keep citizens from the right to vote. This is using fear and bigotry to game the system and shave points on close elections. Using a phony issue to

I have attached a study which shows how voter ID laws really designed to keep legitimate voters away rather than address a real problem.

http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/pdf/TruthAboutVoterFraud.pdf

"Among Republicans it is an 'article of religious faith that voter fraud is causing us to lose elections,' [Royal] Masset[, former political director of the Republican Party of Texas,] said. He doesn't agree with that, but does believe that requiring photo IDs COULD CAUSE ENOUGH OF A DROPOFF IN LEGITIMATE DEMOCRATIC VOTING add 3 percent to the Republican vote."
http://www.chron.com/news/article/In-trying-to-win-has-Dewhurst-lost-a-friend-1815569.php

I doubt you will read it, but unlike your position, I am not making a phony appeal to credulity and willing to support my position with something resembling a fact.

"Until then, follow the law."

Accused rapists and murderers have more due process rights than illegal aliens do. Don't you dare talk about upholding the laws unless you have a clue what those laws actually are. People who spout off about laws they know nothing about are just finding excuses for ridiculous positions.

Creating draconian (and unconstitutional) state laws are not doing anything substantial against the issue of illegal aliens except finding new and interesting ways we can create police state measures within a democratic nation.

Frankly the same people stumping for these laws against illegals also are against all immigration in general. NumbersUSA and their ilk are nativist, bigoted organizations against all forms of immigration, legal or otherwise. The measures used against illegals are typically also used to harass all immigrants and engage in illegal profiling. It appeals to bigots who normally wouldn't necessarily vote for the GOP.

>>This is so simple, yet the Republicans are "blowing it" by backing such a policy?

Because they are under the current control of bigots, religious wackadoodles who are willing to cut off their nose to spite their face to kowtow to these people.

We are not like other countries. Most of the world DOESN'T have fully conceived and sane immigration policies. Only the US and 3 others do. We do not need to be taking cues from people who get it wrong.

>>The only reason why Obama hates voter ID laws is that he'll lose thousands of illegal votes, made possible by the thugs at his favorite unions (SEIU, NAFCME, UFT). And we can't have that, now can we?

Now you are being dense! Unions are against immigration in general. You are just spouting ignorant talking points and don't have a clue.

 

ATIMOSHENKO

12:38 PM ET

January 30, 2012

How is life in the bubble?

1. No illegal immigrant would ever dream of voting. It is a lot of additional risk and hassle for absolutely no additional gain.

2. As the article points out, illegal immigrants tend to bear much more of the responsibilities of citizenship/residency than they do of the benefits. Illegal immigrants do and do no do all of the same things that US citizens do and do not do, respectively... because there is no better way to 'get on the radar' of authorities than by breaking (non-immigration) law. For the same reason, illegal immigrants would avoid using government services and benefits unless they absolutely have to. The biggest 'crime' of the illegal immigrants is that they do not submit stacks upon stacks of paperwork to be filed away by government bureaucrats.

3. No one is asking the US to be different from other nations. In any nation that has overly burdensome legal immigration requirements, there is always a sizeable group of citizens campaigning for this burden to be reduced, and for already present illegals to have their status normalised. Indeed, illegal immigration cannot be discussed separately from legal immigration – people only immigrate illegally when the legal options are byzantine as to be functionally non-existent for most.

 

KD6RXL

5:23 AM ET

January 31, 2012

The anger is more a reaction to pro-illegal-immigrant elites

Because of diversity fetishism, and the fact Mexican citizens are more likely to vote Democrat than American citizens, 'scapegoating' is really just a code word for not giving a rat's rear end about immigration impacts on citizen employment , crime, national security, or social service budget issues.

I also suspect a bigoted attitude towards WASPY, whitebread Americans, especially working-class Americans, is another reason progressive elites are so enraptured by illegal immigration. Snood's comment about only morons being displaced by illegal workers is a good example. Obama's remarks about 'bitter, gun-and-religion-clinging' is another.

The assertion that flooding the labor market with unskilled foreign workers favoring huge families impacts working-class citizens and social service budgets isn't scapegoating, it's an Econ 101 proposition. It's obvious sanctuary laws and the DREAM Act displace citizens from zero-sum programs like affordable housing and public college admission. How many? Pro-immigration elites don't care.

Pro-immigration elites also obviously don't care if a majority of citizens support immigration limits.

It's a reaction to those arrogant elites that increasingly drives the citizen anger. Bear in mind that 'anti-immigrant' shooter in Norway didn't target Muslim immigrants, he targeted the Norwegian political elites ('cultural traitors') embracing anti-Western Muslim immigration.

 

SPOOD

11:26 AM ET

January 31, 2012

Typical nativist bullcrap

Do you also post on Stormfront? It sounds that way

There is so much bigoted nonsense from that response I don't know where to begin. "Diversity fetishism", you mean people not deferring to kiss WASP behind. We live in a multiracial, multicultural country. Either deal with it or get the hell out.

Illegal immigration has actually reversed itself due to harsh economic conditions (1-2 million of them left the country BEFORE much of this hysteria started)

Its telling you don't make any distinction between legal and illegal immigrant labor in your spiel. Flooding the market with foreign labor... and talking about immigration limits. Its all about keeping "the wrong kind of people" and playing to bigotry. Immigration is necessary for any developing nation in order to maintain workforces and markets. We can't rely on dumb impoverished idiots to produce a lot of kids to keep up our population.

 

VICTORPANAK

7:35 PM ET

January 31, 2012

Spood is so on-point, it's beautiful

I dunno too much about all the immigration arguments and all that stuff, but I will say this. I'm currently studying demographic patterns in developed countries, and it is almost certain that immigration (legal and illegal) is a benefit to the American economy. Two reasons.
First off, at a certain point, a developed country is bound to start loosing population (assuming no immigration). You loose population because medical care improves and so people live longer, and at the same time, birth rates decrease because people focus more on their careers, use contraceptives, etc... So people have less children, and this decreases our available work force. To top this off, people live longer but that doesn't mean they work longer. In fact, after the age of 60, people become a burden on society. Modern societies face this crucial problem where your workforce declines dramatically, while you're dependent population increases. If you're wondering what this effect has on the country, just look at Italy or Japan. Way too many Japanese public schools are empty these days. Literally. Empty. And Italy is facing a NEGATIVE population growth, which means every year, it has fewer and fewer workers to work the firms and other businesses in Italy. It's the developed world's nightmare. But there's a solution: immigration. Thank god.
The USA kicks ass because everyone wants to come here and work. Even a little too many people. But immigration is the perfect solution to the demographic loss explained above. Immigrants are almost always young workers looking for opportunities to provide for their families back home. Legal immigrants are obviously beneficial, not gonna go into that its so obvious. Illegal immigration, however, I'm not completely sure about. Based on what I'm reading, though, it seems really beneficial in that illegal immigrants pay for our social services but don't receive them. How is this bad? For them maybe. If you think they steal american jobs or any of that stupid shit, consider that illegal immigrants work in environments that most average americans can't even imagine. Slaughterhouses are good examples of this.
Anyways, that's my piece. To wrap up, Any american who has an issue with diversity, immigration, "change" in america, etc... has really got their head tied on wrong. Seriously though, our country's success is a direct result of things that Tea Partyers and other conservative wackjobs demonize. Remember all those immigrants in the early 20th century? Wonder why we all of a sudden became the most powerful country in the world following WW1 and WW2? It's called a HUGE, diverse, and free workforce. Let the workers in, and stfu

 

DOCMAGNUS1@YAHOO.COM

1:07 PM ET

January 28, 2012

A dose of reality

Anyone who thinks the immigration issue is actually about fairness or jobs is as naive as Cadet Gringrich of Starfleet Academy. Nobody will do the work that most illegal immigrants do, or, if at all, for what illegals are paid, and especially in agriculture. Like it or not, we have created a caste system of low-wage, illegal workers, and agribusiness is a huge beneficiary. So are consumers, which is why I can buy a bag of Florida oranges for $5 instead of just one orange for the same price.

At the higher end of the labor force, health care needs, with or without Obamaromneycare, due to an aging population will require the importation of millions of skilled workers because not enough Americans have figured out that getting trained as an X-ray tech or LPN is the 21st Century equivalent of going to work on an automotive assembly line - pretty stable jobs, albeit hard and un-glamorous. So the main near-term immigration reform will be to ease the entry of medical personnel through more generous conditions on H-1B visas. Somewhere in the middle are non-Americans who earn citizenship by military service - at one point, about 30,000+ on active duty.

So unless somebody who has lost a job wants to pick grapes, bus tables, go to medical tech school, or join the army, bellowing about losing jobs to illegals is about as realistic as agonizing about tax fraud, and bless those citizens who have realized the need to readjust expectations and actually do those things. Bankers, realtors, insurance agents, engineers, lawyers, factory workers and others have been forced from their jobs, never to see that kind of work again, but not by immigration. It's the times we live in, whoever one wants to blame for this state of affairs (me, I think it's one of the few significant trans-partisan accomplishments in my lifetime).

This is about votes. Immigrants tend to care about public services, which is anathema to the GOP and catnip to Democrats. Meanwhile, agricultural businesses from ADM and Heinz down to an individual peach farmer in Georgia live or die on cheap labor, as do many building contractors, landscapers, and other small businesses across the county. The issue helps keep the "Party of Business" in power but God help them all if too many Republicans do too much more than bang fists on podiums or wag a scolding finger.

The anti-immigration outcry is a great frenzy piece for Republicans but not so much for Democrats because Dems can't disguise their interests as well as the GOP can. So, a mushy status quo is in the best interests of both parties. Otherwise, this would have been "solved" at one time or another when the D's or the R's mainly controlled the levers of power.

Until the real facts on the ground change, any immigration story is a non-story - unless, of course, we'd like our illegal guests to populate Newt's moon colony but that place isn't gonna happen either.

 

STOGIEGUY7

3:39 PM ET

January 29, 2012

Correction and a real dose of reality

You seem confused, so let me enlighten you with facts by defining a couple of terms that you've used in this debate:

An immigrant = someone who obtained legal residency or has become naturalized.

An illegal alien = someone who is in our national territory without permission.

These two groups are NOT the same thing. Many on the left absolutely LOVE to make them sound like they are one in the same, but they are not. The only reason that the distinction is allowed to become blurred is that the hard left would like to lump lawbreakers in with the millions who are not in order to garner support by using a cynical "them versus us" strategy. The Spanish-language Univision network has, in particular, made this into an art form as they attempt to manipulate their viewers in order to advance their corporate goal toward full amnesty (and increased revenue).

And no, I don't want illegals voting in our elections. Obama does, because he knows that he'll get those votes. Well, I'll tell you what: when I can go to Mexico, accept Social Security from their government and vote in their elections - all without even applying for a visa - is the day that I might take comments such as yours seriously.

Why must the USA be held to a different standard than every other nation on Earth? Is it because doing so will help to forward your political ideology?

 

SPOOD

12:42 PM ET

January 30, 2012

You obviously don't care about keeping legitimate voters away

You are so worried about the near non-existent problem of illegal aliens voting that you are willing to attack the right to vote for thousands of citizens.

As for your take on illegal aliens, they are a convenient excuse for local politicos to make tons of money on private detention centers and make it that much easier to take a crap all over the 4th Amendment.

http://www.npr.org/2010/10/28/130833741/prison-economics-help-drive-ariz-immigration-law

Laws passed by states (governments unqualified to deal with immigration issues) to go after illegal aliens have the effect of giving police forces free reign to engage in discriminatory actions under the color of law. Its a way to roust out anyone with a funny accent or brown skin. Republicans don't court minorities as a matter of course, so its an easy way to make life hell for potential Democrat voters.

 

KD6RXL

5:34 AM ET

January 31, 2012

Medical technician: a job Americans won't do

So medical technician is now " a job Americans won't do"? Finish carpentry? Plumber?

Has it ever occurred to the spouters of this cliche that it's often a self-fulfilling prophecy? The flooding of specific job categories by illegals is often what reduced the wages, status, and working conditions such that Americans won't work there.

As for the special case of ag work, in many cases the foreign labor could be replaced by agribusiness investing more capital down at the International Harvester. Agribusiness just doesn' wanna. Or maybe some ag production simply needs to be offshored as so many industries once considered critical have been.

 

SPOOD

11:31 AM ET

January 31, 2012

Nativitst bigoted nonsense

So medical technician is now " a job Americans won't do"? Finish carpentry? Plumber?

Because there are soooo many illegal aliens doing those jobs.

You aren't against illegal aliens, you are against foreigners in general. You are still full of crap. In the states which enacted the gestapo tactics against illegals, with major agricultural industries, they still can't get citizens and legal aliens willing to do the jobs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/21/after-alabama-immigration-law-few-americans-taking-immigrants-work_n_1023635.html

Its telling that nativist group FAIR has ties with neo-nazis and other extremists
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2001/spring/blood-on-the-border/anti-immigration-

 

SPOOD

1:42 PM ET

January 28, 2012

The sad truth

If your job can be taken away by an illegal alien, you are an unskilled, uneducated moron.

It would be a sign of the failure of the education system that we would have so many people whose only conceivable skill is mind-numbing manual labor.

--
Our legal immigration system is deeply dysfunctional. Since visas are tied directly to the specific employer, it means people on work visas typically earn far less than their domestic equivalents in the same job. Employers can pay them much lower wages because they can't leave the company without fear of losing their visa. 25% of our illegal population are people who entered legally, may have worked here legally but are on expired visas.

There needs to be some ability to convert them to permanent residency or portability among employers.

 

XEXON

1:39 PM ET

January 30, 2012

That sound you hear...

Is the scraping of fingernails along the wall as the white establishment worries about the rising tide of brown faces around them and tries to hang on to what they have aqquired over the last 200 years.

If you don't give the Hispanic/Latino populations equality in this country, your children will live under a government heavily populated by them in the years ahead.

And they may remember the days when they were treated poorly as a minority group and feel a need to return the favor. You've got maybe two generations left of the old white establishment. After that, you're going to see a very different America. Not only as a more ethnically diverse country, but things like our foreign policy will do a geographical shift to Latin America instead of Europe and Israel.

Even religion will be affected. Most Hispanics and Latinos are Catholic. And the Catholic church has a long history of sharing the bed with government.

As for immigration, people come here because it's better than their home countries. They're trying to escape the dire poverty that exists south of our border. You can either pour money into a more harsh enforcement, or you can direct more foreign aid to these countries to improve what they have to work with.

Our efforts in this area have been pathetic. Most of the money we send south is for drug enforcement. They grow drugs because of the poverty. And the demand for these drugs is not their fault, it's our's.

We as a nation need to spend more time working on ourselves instead of wagging a finger at other people.

Mea Culpa, anyone?

x

 

LOSPICOS

7:18 PM ET

January 30, 2012

As the article points out,

As the article points out, illegal immigrants tend to bear much more of the responsibilities of citizenship/residency than they do of the benefits.Uninsurance Illegal immigrants do and do no do all of the same things that US citizens do and do not do, respectively... because there is no better way to 'get on the radar' of authorities than by breaking (non-immigration) law.

For the same reason, illegal immigrants would avoid using government services, insurance, and benefits unless they absolutely have to. The biggest 'crime' of the illegal immigrants is that they do not submit stacks upon stacks of paperwork to be filed away by government bureaucrats. No one is asking the US to be different from other nations. In any nation that has overly burdensome legal immigration requirements, there is always a sizeable group of citizens campaigning for this burden to be reduced even if all they contribute to the society is handmade jewelry, and for already present illegals to have their status normalised. Indeed, illegal immigration cannot be discussed separately from legal immigration – people only immigrate illegally when the legal options are byzantine as to be functionally non-existent for most.

 

GRANT

4:12 PM ET

January 30, 2012

We're working with only a

We're working with only a decade of data here and as noted the numbers on immigration are changing but at the very least the Republican party is going to have to put a large amount of effort into the Hispanic-American* vote for the next few elections. I wonder if they'll be locked Democrats like the African-American vote.

*That's actually a strange phrase to use now that I think about it.

 

MONGO46538

5:01 PM ET

January 30, 2012

The Mexicans aren't going anywhere

That's reality. It's a conservative pipe dream that somehow a bunch of impossible to enforce laws mixed in with outright cruelty is somehow going to foment their collective drams of a perfect single cultural society. Not going to happen. Why not make it easier for the immigrants illegal or otherwise to become law abiding contributors to our tax base and society. Face it we're already integrated. The idea of invisible land based borders drawn out on some map that doesn't make any real sense in relation ship to actual cultural boundaries, is out moded, out dated and impossible to enforce. Look at the Kurds in Turkey, the Shia in Iran and Iraq and The Taliban in Afghanistan... ask the troops about "border control".

Most Mexicans (yes that's what I call them because they are) I know pay their bills, keep they're property clean, take good care of their children and work very hard. I think spoiled rich white fat conservatives are more afraid that they will pale in comparison

 

TEOC2

7:41 PM ET

January 30, 2012

"Republicans have a historic chance..." to lose spectacularly

The Republican Tea Bag Party have had many historic chances over the past decade and the history they have written for themselves is one of missed opportunity, failed policy and self-destruction.

Given the Republican Tea Bag Party's primary season is giving the UFC's Octagon a run for its money nothing would suggest this will change.

That the latest chorus of the Republican Tea Bag Party's serenade for walking past graveyards includes a candidate named Bush that will magically replace the no show evangelic vote with Hispanics is another sure sign of the deepening psychosis among the Republican Tea Bag Party's atrophied brain trust.

Good times. Keeping the popcorn coming.

 

BRADLEYESPINOSA

6:40 AM ET

January 31, 2012

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XTIANGODLOKI

3:42 PM ET

January 31, 2012

Playing off xenophobia is nothing new

Fear of immigrants has been a dominating issue in Europe politics for years now, even surfacing in the more liberal northern European nations. Playing off the fear of immigrants also plays some parts in politics of Japan (The Gov of Tokyo famously blamed all crimes on foreigners) and Singapore. I think in the times of uncertainty, xenophobia and nationalism are very effective tools to gather popular support.

Of course, this article points out the fact that this strategy can easily back fire too. This happens when immigrants represent a large portion of the voting population, as with the case of Hispanics in America.

 

JAN STUHR

1:56 PM ET

February 25, 2012

immigration is the perfect

immigration is the perfect solution to the demographic loss explained above. Immigrants are almost always young workers looking for opportunities to provide for their families back home. Legal immigrants are obviously beneficial, not gonna go into that its so obvious. Illegal immigration, however, I'm not completely sure about. Based on what I'm reading, bet365though, it seems really beneficial in that illegal immigrants pay for our social services but don't receive them.Illegal immigrants do and do no do all of the same things that US citizens do and do not do, respectively... because there is no better way to 'get on the radar' of authorities than by breaking (non-immigration) law. For the same reason, illegal immigrants would avoid using government services and benefits unless they absolutely have to. The biggest 'crime' of the illegal immigrants is that they do not submit stacks upon stacks of paperwork to be filed away by government bureaucrats.Why not make it expekt easier for the immigrants illegal or otherwise to become law abiding contributors to our tax base and society. Face it we're already integrated. The idea of invisible land based borders drawn out on some map that doesn't make any real sense in relation ship to actual cultural boundaries, is out moded, out dated and impossible to enforce.