A Loss We Can Live With

The endgame in Afghanistan isn’t 2013 or 2014; it’s already happened. The only thing now is to make sure that the retreat is not a total disaster for those we leave behind.

BY JAMES TRAUB | FEBRUARY 10, 2012

That appears to be what Panetta was talking about, though in order to become formal policy the change would have to be endorsed at the NATO conference this May in Chicago. And it makes a great deal of sense: Commanders have to be prepared to sacrifice some tactical gains in order to prepare Afghan forces to take over at the end of 2014. But "makes sense" is very different from "will work." The premise of the ambitious counterinsurgency strategy that Obama agreed to adopt in 2009, at the urging of Petraeus, then the overall commander for the region, was that U.S. forces would clear out the Taliban from Afghan territory, train Afghan forces to take over, and help build a sufficiently effective government that would encourage the Afghan people to choose the state over the insurgents. That enterprise has largely failed, and since the White House knows very well that it has failed, officials cannot expect that even adequately trained Afghan forces will be able to sustain the fight against the Taliban. The "transition" is thus an exercise in kabuki as much as it is in counterinsurgency doctrine.

Leaks from two classified reports have confirmed what is already obvious. A January National Intelligence Estimate on Afghanistan drawn up by the CIA and other intelligence agencies concluded that the incompetence and corruption of the Afghan government, along with the resilience of an insurgency sheltering across the border, could make it impossible for the Afghan state to survive on its own after U.S. and NATO support dwindles after 2014. And a NATO report based on the interrogation of some 4,000 Taliban prisoners asserted that Afghan security forces are collaborating extensively with the Taliban, and that Afghan civilians "frequently prefer Taliban governance over the Afghan government." (Critics have noted that Taliban prisoners may not be the most reliable sources.)

Still, senior military officials appear to be sincerely convinced that the battle is tipping towards the NATO alliance and away from the Taliban. Perhaps they'll be proved right; but based on current trends, the Taliban is all too likely to fill the vacuum created by the departure of U.S. and NATO forces. The best chance to avoid such a debacle is not a successful hand-off to the Afghan military but a successful negotiation which persuades the Taliban to lay down its arms in exchange for a significant role in the Afghan government. The White House is increasingly focused on that goal. The effort, based in Doha, is being led by Marc Grossman, the special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan. But so far, Pakistan's intelligence service -- which, the NATO report noted, exercises almost total control over the Taliban -- has opposed the talks. Even Afghanistan's president, Hamid Karzai, has spurned the effort, preferring to conduct his own alleged negotiations in Saudi Arabia. The boys at Ladbrokes are probably laying long odds on this outcome, too.

And this brings us to the endgame of the endgame. Afghanistan is a relic -- though one that keeps reaching out from the crypt. We've already moved on. The Pentagon's "strategic guidance" issued last month stated that "U.S. forces will no longer be sized to conduct large-scale, prolonged stability operations" -- read, Iraq and Afghanistan. And while the United States will not be leaving the Middle East, it "will of necessity rebalance towards the Asia-Pacific region." Washington is pivoting from the Middle East to Asia, and from an immensely frustrating decade of regime change, occupation, nation-building, and counterinsurgency to a much more familiar and, dare we say, rational era of great-power deterrence. The president, and the American people, would like to see the back of Afghanistan.

Johannes Simon/Getty Images

 

James Traub is a fellow of the Center on International Cooperation. "Terms of Engagement," his column for Foreign Policy, runs weekly.

DUBLIN

4:47 PM ET

February 10, 2012

A loss we can live with?

The awesome emptiness of Afghanistan has never had any use to foreign invaders and it's historical records are free of exaggerations over this fact. McChrystal almost went mutinous trying to nation build a country that has no middle class, and where it's people are largely rural. Whether Uncle sam deems the whole affair as a loss is not something that bothers Karzai. His government from time to time, has been able to easily wrap up it's belongings and move back to Kabul when the going gets tough in the provinces and i suggest Uncle Sam should emulate him to save us more blood and money.

 

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February 11, 2012

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DR. KUCHBHI

5:27 PM ET

February 10, 2012

Disorienting article

"the West can afford to fail in Afghanistan"
vs.
"we have an obligation to do what we can"
vs.
"Let us not ... abandon Afghanistan"

And all of these are just on the third page. Talk about equivocating...
I mean, should we or shouldn't we?

Look. If we get out, the Pakis take over - plain and simple.
They return it to the way things were on 9/11. They move terrorist camps there just like things were on 9/11. They had troops on the ground as far north in Afghanistan as Kunduz. They spent ALL NITE evacuating them with when NATO troops showed up there.
Back then, they denied having terrorist camps on their territory coz they knew they were running them in Afghanistan.
Today they can't insult our intelligence that blatantly so they just say that they WON'T.

And of course, we should be cool with that! Coz you know what, its just groovy, man!!! What we can't see can't hurt us...

 

WISEUCF

8:45 AM ET

February 13, 2012

Disorienting article

@DR. KUCHBHI

Why was this a disorienting article?
The three points you cherry pick out of the text are:

"The West can afford to fail in Afghanistan."
True.

"we have an obligation to do what we can.
True.

"Let us not ... abandon Afghanistan."
True, and basically compatible with those prior statements.

You make a point of saying that the Taliban evacuated al-Qaeda camps before "NATO" showed up. Perhaps, but bin Laden most likely did not leave until December 2001.... that is two months after the invasion began.

 

DR. KUCHBHI

1:51 PM ET

February 13, 2012

It is disorienting

because those "cherry picked" sentences are ALL on the 3rd page ALONE (which only has 2 paragraphs in total).

I don't see them as mutually compatible at all.

If we can afford to fail, then why waste time and effort? Why not just abandon it? Why waste precious lives in pursuit of something that's not important enough to succeed at.
If we have an obligation to do what we can, then we need to make every effort to make sure we don't fail.

Not sure what Bin Laden's stay for 2 months longer has to do with what I said.

My point was that once the Pakis run Afghanistan, they will be doing a lot more than providing "political support". And it was the Pakis that were withdrawing boatloads of people from Kunduz, not the Taliban. The number of troops (low life form that were supported by their troops) that they airlifted out of Kunduz is testimony to that.

And the state of affairs as it existed on 9/11 is EXACTLY what we're going back to, once we smack our lips after we fulfill our "obligation" and endure an "affordable failure" and "abandon Afghanistan" as we doubtlessly will.

 

AARKY

6:11 PM ET

February 13, 2012

Afghanistan ist Kaput

Why is it that we have trolls from IAPAC and WINEP when there is even the whiff of a conversation about Iran When it's Afghanistan we have trolls from the Indian Ambasasador's office bad mouthing the Pakis. Thank you very much, but we can bad mouth them ourselves.

 

DR. KUCHBHI

10:10 PM ET

February 14, 2012

And by "ourselves", you mean the Dept of State?

Clearly anyone who knows more than you cannot possibly be American. He/She must be an agent of a foreign government. Got to love the logic!! :-)

 

MARTY MARTEL

7:36 PM ET

February 10, 2012

With an ally like Pakistan, US did not need an enemy

US has nobody to blame but itself for the coming Afghan debacle.

US knew about Pakistani State’s terrorist connections. That is why Richard Armitage was able to threaten Musharraf with bombing Pakistan to stone age if Musharraf refused to join US fight against terrorism.

US also knew about Pakistani State’s duplicity - Pakistani State was running with Al Qaeda’s and Taliban’s terrorists while hunting with the American hounds. But US deliberately ignored that Pakistani double game. So US deserved to be duped by Pakistan. Poor Afghanistan is and will be paying the price for US willingly ignoring Pakistani duplicity.

The Pakistani Army is convinced that history beckons it now; that its moment in Afghanistan has arrived, that its success there is directly proportional to American withdrawal. And they may not be wrong in that assessment.
There was a time after the USSR ’s withdrawal from Afghanistan when the average Pakistani truly believed that it was responsible for the defeat and subsequent disintegration of a superpower. For that reason Pakistan’s Prime Minister of the time, Mr Nawaz Sharif, was often called ‘Fateh Kabul’, the vanquisher of Kabul . As and when America pulls out its troops, largely or completely, from Afghanistan, the people of Pakistan might take it as the final proof that they are directly, or indirectly, responsible for the defeat of two superpowers and their eventual decline.

The irony of the US-Pakistan relationship is that the US may set the agenda, but Pakistan invariably maneuvers the results. Despite an outward show of compliance, Pakistan is the decisive factor in this relationship. As the neck is to a face, Pakistan has invariably determined the direction in which America should turn. The latest case in point is Hillary Clinton’s visit to Pakistan in October, 2011. She had gone there accompanied by the defense and intelligence brass on a mission to force compliance, but Pakistani Generals stared them down.

Pakistan has been successful - of producing cadre of terror as in a hatchery, of funding them, of selecting targets for them to attack, of nuclear proliferation and of running drugs internationally. Whenever the international society has confronted it with evidence of its complicity, it talks its way out brazenly.

Iraq was bombed mercilessly for far less and Muammar Gadaffi consigned to brutal death for reasons that remain opaque. Now Iran is on watch for its supposed nuclear status. But Pakistan manages consistently to escape censure. It has crossed and re-crossed the nuclear Rubicon at will, it has broken almost every norm of diplomatic behavior, and it stonewalls all queries about the misdoings of its ISI. Yet it faces no opprobrium.

The question that the international community often asks itself is this: How is it that Pakistan is able to get away with being dangerous to the rest of the world? Its footprint is clearly linked to terror strikes in most parts of the world. As former British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said, “Seventy per cent of terror plots in the UK have their source in Pakistan .”

With an ally like Pakistan , US really did not need an enemy to lose in Afghanistan.

 

NEEL288

1:44 PM ET

February 11, 2012

With an ally like Pakistan .....

To a discernible observer, one thing is not hard to comprenhend that an unstated objective of American policy is to deliberately make some parts of the world a dangerous place, although no one in the US policy making circle will ever acknowledge that.

The policy is simple, and targetted at those nations that do not follow American foreign policy objectives. When one country goes against American interests and acquires weapons' capability of large scale destruction, the US would provide direct or indirect support to its enemy to acquire comparable capacity of mass destruction. If necessary, the US would create and prop up the enemy (which apparently is an extension of British colonial policies ), make the right conditions of animosity to make it look justifyable.

Neither country is in fact a friend of the US. In case of wars and mass destruction in that region and the demise of the prospective powers, the US have nothing to loose and the Americans defense industrial complex has everything to gain.

Playing Pakistan against India is a classic example of that. Now when the conditions are ripe, the US trying to appear friendly with India is an added camouflage to the whole plot ..... !!

 

JJTHETRAVELER

12:47 AM ET

February 12, 2012

With an ally like Pakistan, US did not need an enemy

Where do you get these "ideas". Two of the most corrupt nations live right next door to each other. Pak and Afg are with out a doubt the most miserable places on the planet. Both countries citizens are ignorant, tribal, backward and mostly isolated people who the average American has nothing in common. You and all the other "lib spin dr's." can say what you want but you are ignoring some facts. We destroyed the taliban everywhere we met them. Every troop on any side in the conflict knows that to stand and fight against us it to die. it's not just technology but the quality of the troop. Both nations are mostly islamic. That means they kill anyone who disagrees with them, stone helpless women, justify "honor killings", refuse to modernizer, and generally live in the 6th century. The West just hasn't figured out yet that we are at war with islam. It's not that we want to fight, it's that they will not let us live unless we fight. As for somehow this justifies the cowardly terrorist attacks is ludicrous. They will attack regardless. We would probably have more attacks were it not that we keep them of balance and out of power now.
You BTW are sick, to think that Muammar Gadaffi death was unjustified.

 

NEEL288

11:04 AM ET

February 12, 2012

With ally like Pakistan .....

@JJTHETRAVELER,

First of all who created the Al Qaeda and Taliban ..... who funded, trained and armed them through their surrogate Pakistan ...... ? It is the same group of people Ronald Reagan called " the moral equivalents of America's fore fathers ", and were given red carpet reception at the white house ...... !!

Was it an American foreign policy mistake ........ ??? No, this was deliberate, just as allowing the 9/11 incident to happen and the subsequent American war against these same group of peole who are now termed terrorist, just because they do not follow American foreign policy objectives in the region ..... !!

You mentioned Ghaddaffi ........ was he more dangerous than the nuclear armed N Korea, or was he more authoritarian than the Saudis ....... ?? The answer is NO ...... ! Then why do the US not touch the Saudis or N Korea, and do not declare Pakistan a state sponsoring terror ........... ?

Bottom line, you can justify any American act from American point of view .... but that is not necessarily the most noble one. Time has come for the Americans to re-define what American national interests are, and more importantly how to achieve the interests without taking help of the evil regimes like the Saudis and Pakistan.

 

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February 11, 2012

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NEEL288

11:28 AM ET

February 11, 2012

A loss the US can live with

As it has been said by many about Afghanistan, Pakistan will come back to fill the place vacated by the US.

The world would go back to where it was before 9/11, with Taliban taking over Afghanistan once again with the help of their backers in Pakistan.

Most regrettable part of the whole thing is, Pakistan will do what it will do with American help, the tens of billions provided to Pakistan in the name of fighting terror ........... !!

 

HITCHENS_LIVES

11:32 AM ET

February 11, 2012

Petraeus has nothing on Panetta

Didn't these two form the punchline of an old Mussolini joke on switching uniforms?

Leon is way less conventional than David, ask anyone who doesn't just throw together research from a library, but the gargantuan turnover rate of operators who left to become consultants and contractors for the private industry. David's success is that of Hitler in 1946, he didn't win a war though people, and for all the wrong, right wing, nazi like reasons worship him as if he did. David's troops in some diasporan move to reality, quit in droves.

Leon hasn't spoke enough, that's his only weakness under our form of politics. It proves one thing and this is where he differs from the gentleman he switched coats and boots with, Leon is not a bullshit artist.

 

BEINGTHERE

7:08 PM ET

February 11, 2012

Well, amen.

Petraeus has to be the most self-serving man on the face of the earth. What makes him so is that he commanded men and women in two pointless, bloody, expensive wars and, brutal as it sounds, it was for the sake of his resume. Knowing young people who fought in both wars, I was troubled by having that belief until I read Michael Hastings's "The Operators: The Wild and Terrifying Truth about the Afghan War." And it is all that. I am not troubled by those beliefs. Petraeus is a dark, dark person.

 

AARKY

6:40 PM ET

February 13, 2012

Out of Afghanistan?

Go to Antiwar.com and find a link to an 84 page article by Lt Col Daniel Davis entitled, "Manufacturing Consent" He has nothing but scathing terms for Generals such as Petraeus and also William Caldwell for their propagandizing the surge and the supposed effectiveness of the Afghan Army and police. His basic nessage is that the DOD and Pentagon Generals have lied to Congress, the American people, and the Main Stream Media refuse to question anything for fear of being left out of any further propaganda meetings. He made certain to send a number of copies to high ranking members of the Senate and the Pentagon is already fighting back. There is too much money to be made from rigged contracts and more potential promotions if the quagmire can churn for a few more years.
Petreaus and Caldwell were willing to lie through their teeth about all those shaped charge explosive devices from Iran (all made easily in Iraq) as part of a Chenyesque plot to attempt to justify an attack against Iran. They were both rewarded well for their lies and luckily the top Generals were able to stop Cheney's diabolical madness.

 

PETERYUHU

5:55 AM ET

February 12, 2012

Graveyard of Empires

Afghanistan has been called "Graveyard of Empires" and books have been written about it and there are numerous studies on history of Afghanistan conflicts, for a reason. While I don't agree we should tuck and run, we need to swallow our pride and let the tribes and Afghans run their country. We've never went into Afghanistan or Iraq with a clear strategy, and while war is dynamic, we failed to adapt.

 

ALANCHRISTOPHER

5:14 PM ET

February 12, 2012

Leaving Afghanistan

The US is leaving Afghanistan at the end of 2014. As much as I hate to give any credit to Stupidity of Defense Losing Pinhead, his plan to reduce US combat roles in the middle of 2013 is the correct path. We have 3 years to train the Afghan army, but we must evaluate their ability to fight before we leave. Therefore, we should work hard at training the Afghan army for 18 months and let them take the lead for the remaining 18 months so we can evaluate their performance, see what needs improvement, and focus additional training on those deficiencies. Having said that, I think they are going to lose in the end, but we should do our best whatever outcome they choose for themselves after we leave in 2014. They may surprise everybody.

 

JONESGP1996

11:29 AM ET

February 13, 2012

Expectation management

How long did it take to make the US Army, British Army, French Army, or any other First World Army the competent fighting force it is today? Knowing the answer to that question, why are we deluding ourselves by thinking that we can turn the Afghan Army into something even halfway useful in the span of 8-10 years? The cultural raw material is practically non-existent, not to mention the fact that 10 years isn't even close to the amount of time needed to create a worthwhile national army.

 

CAPT.FAHAD

7:51 PM ET

February 12, 2012

stop and think for a while... is Pakistan a Scapegoat

In front of all the power in the world and all mighty of the western world USA is not wining in Afghanistan because of Pakistan.... did Pakistan asked to make Taliban? are al Qaeda made of Pakistanis or they are Arabs.... Pakistan was not asked but threaten to go on war and help USA and Pakistani govt have handed over Pakistani citizens to USA has lost thousands of army personal and have lost 45,000 plus Pakistanis life for this war on terror.

Pakistan has lost everything in this war peace in the country families who has lost there loved ones. where these so called Taliban's or la Qaeda have blown bobs in every cities of Pakistan killing many and destroying many lives just because Pakistan is helping USA.

and the money was not just given to Pakistan it was remembered for the cost fight for USA and if there was aid given it went in ruling people pockets.

there are estimated thousands of american spy's and contract kills in Pakistan and there whereabouts are unaccounted-for carrying there respected jobs.

drone attacks on Pakistani cities killing thousands of lives. using Pakistani airbases and not to mention Thousands of NATO trucks which don't pay any road tax and destroying roads.

well we cant change our past but build our future now USA has come to its senses and has start talks with Taliban in Qatar which it should have done after 9/11 but how will many people would have made money out of it.

i have many American friends and im very sure American people are not stupid as American media and govt think they are they know everything regardless how misinformation they will give out to them about other nation in the world how big monster they paint they know all the games and now they will say yes we are powerful but lets not bully others.

Power does not mean that we can threaten others or bully it comes with irresponsibility now Talking with Taliban means USA has a big heart and a brain. and talking is the only thing they should also do with Iran.

Please don't let Media and govt make Pakistan it's Scapegoat of the U.S. in Afghanistan

here are few things i learned from my FOI class

c. Defense mechanism – designed to protect organisms, to help alleviate guilt, to cope, and to protect the ego. These can be helpful or harmful
i. Compensation – shows a strength in another area to offset a perceived weakness
ii. Projection – blames others for their failures
iii. Rationalization – trying to justify actions that would otherwise be acceptable
iv. Denial of Reality – refuse to admit the severity of an issue
v. Reaction Formation – make a fake belief because the true belief causes too much anxiety
vi. Flight (fantasy) – day dream to escape reality
vii. Resignation – give up
viii. Aggression – repress emotions, become hostile

Best Wish's to American friends.

 

NEEL288

8:49 PM ET

February 12, 2012

Pakistan a scapegoat .......... really .......... ???

@ CAPT.FAHAD,

Pakistan is not a "Scapegoat", it is a partner in crime that has also played a double game too duped it partner.

Pakistanis like yourself are now crying hoarse that Pakistan has paid a heavy price for being a partner in crime, and therefore deserves special treatment. Well no Sir, after pocketing the tens of billions of dollars in the name of fighting terror, while actually supporting its own terrorist surrogates, Pakistan does not deserve an iota of sympathy ............ !

Pakistan is paying, and must pay the price for its sponsorship of terror and using terror as instrument of foreign policy. It is not something of a favour that Pakistan is doing to the wrold, but paying for its own misdeeds ...... !

 

CAPT.FAHAD

6:35 PM ET

February 13, 2012

ii. Projection – blames

ii. Projection – blames others for their failures

iii. Rationalization – trying to justify actions that would otherwise be acceptable

iv. Denial of Reality – refuse to admit the severity of an issue

v. Reaction Formation – make a fake belief because the true belief causes too much anxiety

vi. Flight (fantasy) – day dream to escape reality

viii. Aggression – repress emotions, become hostile

 

FAIR AND BALANCED FREDRICO

10:43 PM ET

February 12, 2012

Cheney/Bush

During 9/11 Boy George was reading "My Pet Goat" to children, while Dead-Man-Walking Cheney was was at the scene of the crime (in the White House bunker) conducting scheduled, simulated war-games to fool NORAD and the FAA into standing down. Isn't it time we put these guys on trial for treason and mass murder?

 

DELTA22

1:08 AM ET

February 13, 2012

The worst case scenario

The worst case scenario in Afghanistan wouldn't be the Taliban marching triumphantly into Kabul. There's a hard cap on what they can accomplish, and that limit is the ethnic divide between the Pashtuns in the sountheast and the rest of Afghans in the northwest. The Pashtuns seem to prefer the Taliban anyway, while the northerners hate them with a passion. If a de facto partition of the country is what they can live with, then perhaps so can we.

 

FAIR AND BALANCED FREDRICO

10:00 AM ET

February 13, 2012

Conoco wont get its gas pipleline - Waaaaaah!

With the failure of our US military adventure in Afghanistan, it looks like Conoco wont be able to build its gas pipeline through that country after all. Oh well, the American oil empire cannot be expected to win every time.

 

KUNINO

11:16 AM ET

February 13, 2012

Evidently Panetta told the truth ...

... and his Washington playmates don't approve of that. None of the clarififcations or criticisms Mr Traub quotes denies the truth of Panetta's mention of 2013. They'd just like everybody else to pay no attention.

eparately, I question the blithe foolishness at the head of this article: "The only thing now is to make sure that the retreat is not a total disaster for those we leave behind."

Make sure? How? Accepting two or three million Afghan refugees into the US might do it. Hard to think of anything else.

 

FAIR AND BALANCED FREDRICO

5:39 PM ET

February 13, 2012

War profiteers

"Civilians can scarcely understand or even believe that many ambitious military professionals truly yearn for wars and the opportunities for glory and distinction afforded only in combat. A career of peacetime duty is a dull and frustrating prospect for the normal regular officer to contemplate.... Wars and emergencies put the military and their leaders on the front pages and give status and prestige to the professionals. Wars add to the military traditions, the self-nourishment of heroic deeds, and provide a new crop of military leaders who become the rededicated disciples of the code of service and military action. Being recognized public figures in a nation always seeking folk heroes, the military leaders have been largely exempt from the criticism experienced by the more plebeian politician. Flag officers are considered 'experts,' and their views are often accepted by the press and Congress as the gospel.... Standing closely behind these leaders, encouraging and prompting them, are the rich and powerful defense industries. Standing in front, adorned with service caps, ribbons, and lapel emblems, is a nation of veterans -- patriotic, belligerent, romantic, and well intentioned, finding a certain sublimation and excitement in their country’s latest military venture." --David Shoup, former Commandant of the Marine Corps and member of the Joints Chiefs of Staff, The Atlantic, "The New American Militarism," April 1969

 

CAPT.FAHAD

6:44 PM ET

February 13, 2012

@NEEL288 you sound like

@NEEL288 you sound like extremists....

 

CYBERFOOL

11:00 AM ET

February 16, 2012

"rebuild" afghanistan?

When, in 2002 the discussion turned to "rebuilding afghanistan", I realized that official policy was out of touch with reality. That concept is about as sensical as "rebuilding the moon".

 

CYBERFOOL

11:08 AM ET

February 16, 2012

Indo-Pak Proxy war

What will happen is that the Indians and the Pakis will use Afghanistan as a battleground for their proxy war. The concept of solving the core problem in the region was tossed out the window when the special Presidential envoy for Afghanistan/Pakistan was prevented from dealing with the Indo/Pak conflict.

Gosh, why does Pakistan matter? Because they have nukes.
Why do they have nukes? Because of their mostly cold war with India.

Solve the India/Pakistani problem and that will deflate the pressure on the other conflicts in the region. Solve the Indo/Pak problem and the development needs of the Pakistani people won't be subverted by the tremendious cost associated with expanding and maintaining the Pakistani nuclear arsenal.

 

MCMCMC

7:36 PM ET

February 21, 2012

Pakistan has lost everything

Pakistan has lost everything in this war peace in the country families who has lost there loved ones. where these porno so called Taliban's or la Qaeda have blown bobs in every cities of Pakistan killing many and destroying many lives just because Pakistan is helping USA.