Mosquebusters

When there's something Muslim in your neighborhood, who ya gonna call? Meet the British lawyer fighting Islam, one parking ticket at a time.

BY SPIKE JOHNSON | FEBRUARY 22, 2012

Click here for pictures from inside the world of Mosquebusters. 

LONDON — It is winter, the middle of December, and I find myself making an odd phone call. Pacing around my living room, I kick at the carpet as I dial the number.

"Hello?" I say.

"There's no time," the man on the other end of the line answers immediately. His name is Gavin Boby. We have e-mailed before, but I introduce myself again, explaining my background: education, photography and video experience, that sort of thing.

Boby's tone is measured and businesslike. "It sounds like you have skills that could be of use. Muslims are very bad losers," he says matter-of-factly. He'd like me to act as a witness, he tells me, videotaping his court appearances and searching the Internet for "targets." The conversation is taking me into uncomfortable territory; my voice wavers, and I begin to flounder. Boby doesn't notice. "I'll send you instructions on how we work," he says and hangs up. I have just become a Mosquebuster.

The Mosquebusters, or the Law and Freedom Foundation as they're officially known, are part of a new wave of anti-Islamic campaigners in England with links to more established anti-immigrant groups such as England Is Ours and Stop Islamisation of Europe. Like many of these groups, the Mosquebusters fear that traditional British culture, laws, and values will disappear with the changing face of Britain and worry that extremist interpretations of sections of the Koran urge Muslims to kill non-believers and take slaves.

Until mid-February, the Mosquebusters advertised for volunteers, under a campaign called "No More Mosques," on the website of the ultra-nationalist English Defence League (EDL), a group that organizes anti-Islamic street marches that often decend into brawls, riots, and arrests. The EDL and other anti-Islamic groups have no problem convincing their members to parade in public yelling insults like "Muslim bombers off our streets!" and "Allah is a pedophile!," but the Mosquebusters have a quieter, perhaps more insidious approach: In offices and city halls, they are crafting legal cases against mosque construction applications across the country. It's a war against Islam, but one that often resembles a bureaucratic turf battle more than a clash of civilizations.

Mosquebusters leader Boby, known as The Lawman, is careful to draw the distinction between religion and race. "It is primarily about the division between Islamic and non-Islamic society, and the lawless violence at the heart of Islamic doctrine and practice," he says in his manifesto. Boby dresses conservatively, with a black suit, white button-down shirt, and pastel neck tie, done up tight. He is clean shaven, his brown hair cropped close, and his small eyes squint behind wire-framed glasses. He has the look of a typical middle-aged businessman. And most of the time, he is.

From 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., he runs a planning application company in Bristol, in western of England. He is a qualified barrister with undergraduate and graduate law degrees. But what Boby really wants is "an army of people, about 500 across the country," as he says in one of his online motivational videos. As I watched the recording from my flat in East London, while digesting one of his instructional e-mails on bureaucratic mosque-busting, Boby leaned closer to the camera, maintaining eye contact: "It is very important that mosques are stopped."

Boby launched the Mosquebusters website in 2011, but the group has been working behind the scenes for longer. It offers legal expertise, pro bono, to anyone disputing the construction of a mosque in England, and it has a growing web presence. Boby relies on a handful of volunteers to help with his work; they don't have a physical office but work from home communicating via e-mail, with Boby alone. "I've tried using members of the EDL as volunteers before. They're too reactionary," he says. When Boby needs to meet his Mosquebusters or clients, he takes them for lunch, one-on-one, in London or Bristol -- an offer he made to me as well when we talked by phone. Boby doesn't speak with the press, so a chance to meet him would have been rare. But later in the week, he had a change of heart; he e-mailed me questioning my motives and asked me to disregard all prior correspondence.

* * *

Black and white pictures of World War II fighter planes decorate the Mosquebusters' website, boasting triumphs on fuselages. "Progress So Far... 10," reads the banner. To date, mosques in Blackpool, Bolton, Ealing, Huddersfield, Kirkless, Luton, and York have been fought off by the Mosquebusters. A mosque in Uxbridge, stopped initially by a Mosquebusters community petition, has now landed back in court under appeal from the local Muslim community. It threatens the Mosquebusters' otherwise flawless record.

On a Saturday in late January, I went to see the mosque in question. Located at the end of the Metropolitan tube line, Uxbridge is 20 miles from central London, buried in a largely white, working-class suburb. Walking half an hour south from the Metro stop to the contested Royal Lane Mosque, one passes a small commercial center, a throbbing road, damp underpasses, and sprawling estates.  The town has the feeling of a place forgotten and fearful of change. It has a population of about 1,300 Muslims, just under 5 percent of its total residents.

Five years ago, Royal Lane Mosque was the Irish Community Centre. Over time, the Irish community's had waned, and there wasn't enough money to keep the center open. The building lay derelict for three years, the wooden bar and beer-stained carpets shut behind boarded windows. Two years ago, the Ahmadiyya Muslim Association bought the building and began to renovate it. They repainted the interior, laid down green carpets for kneeling, installed televisions and speakers, and began to re-do the façade. The windows are now arch-shaped, filled with frosted glass for privacy.

But after spending $205,000 on the renovation, the association was denied permission in September 2011 by the Hillingdon Borough Council to use the building as a mosque. Local residents, with the help of a pre-prepared Mosquebusters template, had put pressure on the council, arguing that the mosque's 10 parking spaces wouldn't accommodate all visitors. The Ahmadiyya Muslim Association built an extra two parking spaces and lodged an appeal a month later.

Brian Fairless lives across the street from the Royal Lane mosque. He leans against the door frame of the semi-detached house that he's lived in for over 20 years. "I don't see why they couldn't have this mosque somewhere else, where there's a larger Muslim community," he says, crossing his arms over his thin chest. Fairless, 66, is retired and now spends one month out of the year in Sri Lanka, donating his money and time to people affected by the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami. He fundraises in England, using the money to build shelters, homes, and community centers for people of all religions. But he doesn't want this one on his doorstep. "I don't want loud calls to prayer, and I don't want my parking space taken," he says.

From the street, the mosque is hard to spot. It sits back from the road behind a soaring metal fence. Its brick exterior is painted off-white, and with no signs or markings it blends into the grey winter sky. Groups of Pakistani men wait sheepishly outside, looking shy and uncomfortable. Cars begin to arrive, parking on the street, on the pavement, and in front of resident's windows, waiting for the mosque gates to be unlocked.

Wrapped in heavy coat, scarf, and wool hat, Sohail Quereshi, the mosque's imam, holds whispered conversations with other worshippers. They are unsure whether to open the mosque, unsure who might be watching from behind curtained windows. This is the first time they're using the facility; usually, they rent the event hall next door. The council still hasn't given its consent for the mosque's operation, and the parishioners worry that this unauthorized service could damage their community's reputation and negatively affect the status of the appeal. Quereshi turns to me outside the gates and shakes my hand warmly as I introduce myself. "We didn't know whether you were local press," he says. "For them to see us using the mosque would be very damaging."

Eventually, the men file in. Shoes are removed, stored in racks by the front door. Coats are slung on plastic garden furniture. Inside, the space is split into two large, clinically sparse rooms. One room has a polished marble floor; children slide about in their socks waiting for table tennis and arm wrestling competitions to begin. The second room -- the mosque proper -- has a thick, striped green carpet. With the front door closed, the mood inside changes. The members of the congregation mill around, shaking hands, joking, and eating pizza off Union Jack paper plates. The pizza consumed, white blankets with red and green embroidered patterns are laid on the cold marble. The 50 or so men in attendance kneel in lines opposite Quereshi. Silence falls as they bow their foreheads to the floor in unison.

* * *

It's not religious practice, claim the Mosquebusters, it's parking. Or noise pollution. Or building codes. And with downloadable petition templates, generic letters to councilors, and free legal advice for begrudged locals, it's Boby's mission to make it as easy as possible for your average, disgruntled suburbanite to join in. If there's a trial or hearing about planned construction, Boby will come down to the courthouse to provide free legal representation; if a mosque site has been proposed, he'll arrange volunteers to paper a neighbourhood with flyers. But the Mosquebusters aren't just a resource for aggrieved pensioners -- the group actually wants its volunteers to spread out, actively trolling city planning offices and public records for mosque applications. "It is satisfying detective work, rooting around Islamic deviousness!" reads the instructional e-mail sent to volunteers.

The process begins by searching for D1 planning applications (non-residential buildings), then checking floor plans for a "prayer room," checking names of applicants and agents for names that sound Muslim. "It might be lodged under the label of 'multi-faith center' or 'community center,'" says Boby. "Mosque applicants are crafty and often try to hide what it's really about."

It might seem that the Mosquebusters is a quixotic, xenophobic campaign limited to a handful of small towns in England, but it has ties to other anti-Islamic groups around the world. People from Australia, Canada, Germany, Scandinavia, and the United States comment on the Mosquebusters website regularly, and the group is often written about by far-right organizations. "Mosquebusters racks up another win, all was needed was for someone to oppose it's [the mosques] construction," crows Tundra Tabloids, a Scandinavian website that claims to keep tabs on the political correctness that allows Islamic extremism to flourish. "This is brilliant. I hope council was paying close attention," reads a caption on MRCTV, a right-wing news website.

But as the Mosquebusters have grown, they've earned some unwanted attention. As I was reporting this story, Boby cut all ties with me, refusing to speak or meet for interviews. The Mosquebusters web presence is now cleaner, straighter: Gone are the war planes, the pictures of slam-dunking cheerleaders celebrating another mosque closure. The organization's adapted "Ghostbusters" logo, a caricature of the convicted Islamic terrorist Abu Hamza with a glass eye and hook for a hand, is gone. And Mosquebusters no longer advertises for volunteers through the English Defence League; a disclaimer makes clear that the two groups have no official association.

Still, Boby isn't backing down from his crusade against Britain's creeping Islamicization. "Authorities need to know that the wind is shifting and that when it has blown away the politically correct fog, they will be left in full view," he says in his latest YouTube video, arguing that officials so fear being seen as politically incorrect that they'll grant mosque applications to anyone. And like any hard-working, ambulance-chasing, small-town laywer, he's got his pitch down: "If anyone knows about an application for a mosque, some phony community center or some multi-faith-interfaith-harmony-institute, or a school or college, let me know."

Oli Scarff/Getty Images

 

Spike Johnson is a writer and photojournalist in London.

COSSACK

9:38 PM ET

February 22, 2012

Peace and stability breed fear and laziness... unfortunately

"Over time, the Irish community's had waned, and there wasn't enough money to keep the center open. The building lay derelict for three years, the wooden bar and beer-stained carpets shut behind boarded windows."

This is the problem, right here. Until the people begin to passionately preserve their identity (cultural, ethnic, racial, national, religious), begin to respect themselves, take pride in their identity, people of other cultures, much more passionate, vibrant and proud, will creep in and take over. It's a natural process. All of our problems stem from our timidity, laziness and a lack of passion for things that define us. And the ones who aren't, only make up a small percentage of people in most nations on earth today.

 

BING520

11:21 PM ET

February 22, 2012

tolerance

Before WW II, every European country embraced and was passionately proud of its own culture, race, nationality and religion. The country did not even elect a Catholic president until after 1960. The us-vs-all-others mentality was prevalent. Each group of people accept nothing deemed alien. Living space is the term Hilter used It was exclusive and zenophobic. A low degree of tolerance dominated the world. Your approach might have unintended consequences. I like Japan's Meiji Emperor answer's to those who bitterly opposed his Westernization policy - "Learning and adopting foreign ways broadens our horizon. Everything and anything we learn and absorb shall be ours. Have no fear."

 

CANADIANOBSERVER

8:03 PM ET

February 23, 2012

Tolerance is a Two-way Street

The Shari'ah-adherent world has been Jew-free since the 1940's Islamic alliance with Nazism. In the "West Bank" when a Jew moves in, they face genocide because we all know that Mohammedans expect their societies to be Judenfrei and ethnically pure as required by the Quran. Ask any Christian in North Africa what its been like since the Muslim spring last January - ask them what happens when they try to build a Church in Cairo or Tunisia or Peshawar or Tehran or Damascus etc . . ., etc . . ., etc . . .

If "Palestinians" demand that their state to be Jew-free, then why can't Britons demand that their state be Mohammedan-free? If North Africans vote for the pro-war Nazi-established Ikhwan ("the Green Shirts", as they used to be called in the 1930s, just like the German Brown Shirts who they emulate), then why can't Britons vote for anti-Islamic parties?

Does this writer not realize it's complete B.S. when Mohammedans talk about "freedom of religion" and "respect for minorities". Can Jews even pray at the Temple Mount Victory Mosque? (no) Can Christians even pray in Medinah? (no) Let alone build a mosque? (no) Hell - if a Kuffar so much as tries to visit Mecca, she gets beheaded. What have British Muslims done to speak out against the 57 Apartheid states of the OIC?

Just today, this so-called 'religion' quranically butchered over a dozen people in Afghanistan because of a burnt book. Are you seriously asking us to consider the Muslims to be 'victims'? Tell that to the families that are mourning tonight because of Shari'ah. Tell that to the Fogel family who are holding a yahrtzeit tonight because of Islam.

 

PABLOGONZALES15

9:59 AM ET

February 24, 2012

RE: CANADIANOBSERVER Tolerance is a Two-way Street

RE: CANADIANOBSERVER Tolerance is a Two-way Street

1.1922 Census 589,177 Moslems 83,790 Jews 71,464 Christians living on that land side by side called Palestine the problem started when the Zionist religious Nazi decided to take over that land and make it Jewish only state

2. Lebenon
# Total population, including non-Christians: 4 million
# Percent Christian: 34-41%

Syria:

* Total population, including non-Christians: 18.1 million
* Percent Christian: 5-9%

Occupied Palestine/Gaza & the West Bank
• Total population, including non-Christians: 4 million
• Greek Orthodox: 35,000
• Melkite: 30,000

Egypt:
• Total population, including non-Christians: 83 million
• Copts: 7.5 million
• Greek Orthodox: 350,000

Iraq:
• Total population, including non-Christians: 27 million
• Chaldean: 350,000 – 500,000

• Total population, including non-Christians: 5.5 million
• Greek Orthodox: 100,000
• Latin: 30,000
3. People Killed in Afgan were killed by the security forces who fired into the crowd to make them go away

Are you allergic to facts or do you love to make things up as you go to fit your little Muslims are bad Fantasy

 

GLENRIVEN

8:06 PM ET

February 24, 2012

Well stated.

Well stated.

 

ROSE-ELLEN

11:54 PM ET

February 24, 2012

the west bank is occupied.if

the west bank is occupied.if israelis are allowed to settle there then arabs in the west bank and [gaza] should be allowed to return to israel proper.All arabs including hamas have said for years they would now accept a pre 67border israel .Either a two state solution or let them return to israel and become israelis would be acceptable.israel wants a majority jewish population

 

ROSE-ELLEN

11:54 PM ET

February 24, 2012

the west bank is occupied.if

the west bank is occupied.if israelis are allowed to settle there then arabs in the west bank and [gaza] should be allowed to return to israel proper.All arabs including hamas have said for years they would now accept a pre 67border israel .Either a two state solution or let them return to israel and become israelis would be acceptable.israel wants a majority jewish population

 

ROSE-ELLEN

11:56 PM ET

February 24, 2012

if we were invaded and

if we were invaded and occupied by muslimnation and their soldiers burned our bibles or constituions we too would be doing what they're doing hypocrites.

 

MARTY24

10:51 AM ET

February 23, 2012

Identity

The problem of identity is central to how the West responds to the influx of Muslims. Traditionally, it has been expected that immigrants adopt the main points of the culture of their new country. Immigrants have introduced changes, but the basic orientation has usually persisted. Natives, and those who have embraced the country's culture, are entitled to defend their culture against unwanted changes. The Italian introduction of pasta with tomato sauce is very different from the Muslim introduction of honor killings of women.

Muslims pose a special challenge because the basic purposes of their faith, to assimilate new lands into the Islamic world, make it impossible for them to remain fully Muslim and to integrate into communities that aren't Muslim. This sets up a clash because the immigrants must choose between being Muslim and being citizens of their new country.

In principle, it should be possible for Islam to evolve and make it like other religions with regard to integrating into non-Muslim countries. Mosques, unfortunately, play an important role in preventing this evolution. Most of them are financed by people in the oil exporting states and the interests of their sponsors lie in preventing the necessary evolution. Perhaps the solution is to ban the financing of religious structures by people who are not citizens of the country where the structure will be built. It will take some effort to weed out the mechanisms groups like the Muslim Brotherhood have developed to channel money from the Middle East into various entities in the West.

I note, ironically, that the mosque Johnson visited was Ahmadiyyah, a sect regarded as heretical by mainstream Muslims because they reject jihad and the need to impose Islam on others. Maybe it is just too dangerous to visit a mainstream Sunni mosque in Britain.

 

SULAYMANF

12:23 PM ET

February 23, 2012

Nope, more false stereotypes

You've packed an impressive number of false stereotypes into a single comment.

My faith's 'basic purpose' is NOT "to assimilate new lands into the Islamic world," it's to pray to God. The Nazis in the 1930's tried to claim a powerless minority is an existential threat as you just did now. Your typical Pakistani grocer in the UK isn't working to overthrow anybody, but have a decent life. Typically, those who hate the US and Europe immigrate to Pakistan etc, while those who hate the corruption and lack of freedom in those countries move to UK, Europe, or North America. It's odd how the people who immigrated for better lives and to escape imposed 'sharia' are scapegoated in the places they fled to, and accused of wanting to bring it with them.

You sound like the hysterical anti-Catholics in America from decades ago who warned that if a Catholic President was elected he would immediately put the country directly under Papal rule and destroy the Constitution. Mosques are not a threat, they have been instrumental in helping young people integrate and keep out of trouble.

 

BING520

2:19 PM ET

February 23, 2012

Identity

I read the similar argument from V. S. Naipaul. Naipaul is an eloquent, insightful and excellent researcher. He said that Muslims are much less tolerant of non-Muslims and non-Islamic cultures and beliefs. Tolerance in a Muslim world has a meaning different from what we understand about tolerance in Asia and the West. Muslims accept non-Muslims only when Non-Muslim become a second-class citizen. Naipaul cites numerous examples. I am Chinese and have the previlige of befriending many Chinese Muslims in my home country and Pakistani Muslims in the US. My interactions with Muslim friends do not attest the validity of Naipaul's statement; nonetheless, the news I read about Muslims seem to confirm Naipaul's assertions. I wonder any FP reader can share his/her opinion.

 

SI91

4:01 PM ET

February 23, 2012

... a couple things

@Sulaymanf

My faith's 'basic purpose' is NOT "to assimilate new lands into the Islamic world," it's to pray to God. The Nazis in the 1930's tried to claim a powerless minority is an existential threat as you just did now.

Ah yes, the "Critics of Islam are Automatically Nazis" excuse. It's truly ironic that Muslims hysterically accuse people who analyze Islam of being Nazis when the former are trying to preserve Western liberalism (the exact opposite of a Nazi police state) from being eroded and replaced with the brutality and oppression that characterizes every single country on earth where Muslims happen to be the majority. Nazi criticisms of Jews were based on a legacy of European antisemitism and paranoia fueled by post WWI humiliation. In contrast, Western criticism of sharia is not only based on the grim reality that goes on in Islamic countries every single day, but the rather disturbing phenomenon of creeping Islamization that is going on in the West as we speak. Whether it is the UK already having 85 sharia courts (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/5675166/At-least-85-sharia-courts-operating-in-Britain-says-Civitas-report.html), colleges banning criticism or mockery of Islam (http://www.stonegateinstitute.org/2802/london-school-of-economics-blasphemy) Muslim taxi and bus drivers refusing to allow blind passengers with "unclean" seeing eye dogs on board (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1295749/Muslim-bus-drivers-refuse-let-guide-dogs-board.html) (http://www.staffordshirenewsletter.co.uk/News/Blind-couples-anger-as-taxi-refuses-guide-dog.htm), a rather horrifying increase in Muslim honor killings in the UK (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2069459/Alarming-number-honour-attacks-UK-police-reveal-thousands-carried-year.html) or British citizens being forced to foot the bill for illegal Muslim polygamy in the UK (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-512043/Muslim-husbands-wife-extra-benefits-ministers-recognise-polygamy.html#ixzz1aogHsEKS), British society is already showing hints of kowtowing to the diktats of Islam.

More disturbing is the unashamed hate and fanaticism among UK Muslim youth, including calling for homosexuals to be put to death (http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/234757/3-jailed-for-gay-kill-call/3-jailed-for-gay-kill-call) or being taught to hate at madrassas in the UK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8vxc2yqyMs&feature=player_embedded). If I lived in the UK, I wouldn't want any of that insanity in my country, and I wouldn't want people who promoted it to have influence in my society.

"Your typical Pakistani grocer in the UK isn't working to overthrow anybody, but have a decent life. Typically, those who hate the US and Europe immigrate to Pakistan etc, while those who hate the corruption and lack of freedom in those countries move to UK, Europe, or North America. It's odd how the people who immigrated for better lives and to escape imposed 'sharia' are scapegoated in the places they fled to, and accused of wanting to bring it with them. You sound like the hysterical anti-Catholics in America from decades ago who warned that if a Catholic President was elected he would immediately put the country directly under Papal rule and destroy the Constitution. Mosques are not a threat, they have been instrumental in helping young people integrate and keep out of trouble."

They wouldn't be accused to bringing it with them...if they didn't bring it with them. JFK, the first Catholic President of the US never called for the introduction of canon law in the US. Muslims have introduced sharia courts into the US (http://shariahinamericancourts.com/?page_id=364). JFK never claimed he desired to destroy America and establish a Catholic state. The Muslim Brotherhood's American proxy, the Holy Land Foundation "charity" tried to do exactly that, as shown during its trial (http://www.investigativeproject.org/case/65). The Brotherhood was using the HLF to stage "a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and sabotaging its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all other religions.” Criticizing hysteria is all very well, but to ignore reality in the process is counter productive.

 

FREETHINKER12

5:03 PM ET

February 23, 2012

"The Italian introduction of

"The Italian introduction of pasta with tomato sauce is very different from the Muslim introduction of honor killings of women."

what about the italian mafia? and all the crime in the italian neighborhoods back then?

honor killings? how likely is that in a muslim community. Your more likely to see a wall street jew running a ponzi scheme than a muslim committing an honor killing, but you dont have the balls to say that now do you. coward.

 

ED HARRIS

12:40 AM ET

February 24, 2012

Islam...please

Bless the Mosque busters, Islam is nothing but a cancer on earth, and shall be erradicated by the will of the real and true prophet the FSM.

 

PABLOGONZALES15

10:48 AM ET

February 24, 2012

RE: MARTY24 Identity

When muslims American Muslim citizens of the USA work in the system and try to join and do things other regular americans do they are blamed of Stealth Jihad and Lieing to spread Islam when we dont do anything to avoid these names and the blame we are not integrate better into society on purpose ........ It hell if you do Hell if you dont No wonder UK is in the shape that it is they prob went thru the same thing”

Muslim Americans are largely integrated in US society and moderate in their views, a nationwide survey suggests.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6680939.stm

Can you show us proof that mosque are funded from over seas I will wait….
No they are not, the local Muslim community fund Mosques
The main way the Mosque generates income is by donations usually given on Friday. During Friday prayers, even in a small Mosque, there are at least several hundred worshippers. Bigger Mosques have significantly more, the average donation (some give more some give less) is at least £5, and at least 60% of the people would donate (again since it is a Mosque more people would probably give), so that gives you several thousands of pounds per week regular income. Now I imagine it costs less than £3000 a week to run a small Mosque, therefore there is no need for the day to day running of a Mosque to be funded by Saudi Arabia. Most Mosques do publish a list of accounts on their notice boards detailing the income

And Finally Honor Killing is not limited to muslims or one country since Honor Killing are Cultural not religious

Gurmeet Singh Ubhi, a Sikh man who, in February 2011, was found guilty of the murder of his 24 year-old daughter, Amrit Kaur Ubhi in 2010.[28] Mr. Ubhi was found to have murdered his daughter because he disapproved of her being ‘too westernised’.
In May 2008, Jayvirsingh Bhadodiya shot his daughter Vandana Bhadodiya
Asha Saini and Yogesh Kumar were in love and wanted to get married. But Saini’s family did not approve of Kumar: As a taxi driver, they said, he did not have the right kind of job. But more importantly for them, he was from a lower caste
July 22, Savita and Beena stood before a court in Gurgaon, India, and became the first lesbian couple to be legally married, defying their disapproving families and strict laws banning same-sex marriage. Now, the newlyweds seek police protection following death threats from 14 of their family members and local villagers

 

FREETHINKER12

10:50 AM ET

February 24, 2012

lol a hasbarist threatening

lol a hasbarist threatening genocide. Look at your history buddy and learn a lesson for a change

 

PABLOGONZALES15

10:53 AM ET

February 24, 2012

RE: BING520 Identity

Lebenon
# Total population­­­­­, including non-Christ­ians: 4 million
# Percent Christian: 34-41%

Syria:

* Total population­­­­­, including non-Christ­­­­­ians: 18.1 million
* Percent Christian: 5-9%

Occupied Palestine/­­­­­Gaza & the West Bank
• Total population­­­­­, including non-Christ­­­­­ians: 4 million
• Greek Orthodox: 35,000
• Melkite: 30,000

Egypt:
• Total population­­­­­, including non-Christ­­­­­ians: 83 million
• Copts: 7.5 million
• Greek Orthodox: 350,000

Iraq:
• Total population­­­­­, including non-Christ­­­­­ians: 27 million
• Chaldean: 350,000 – 500,000

• Total population­­­­­, including non-Christ­­­­­ians: 5.5 million
• Greek Orthodox: 100,000
• Latin: 30,000

Get off Fox News Channel Some Isolated incidents dont make it a all out attack on all christians­­­­­. There are Also Attacks on Muslims here in the USA remember there was a texi driver stabed and bombing of a mosque in FL.

 

HAULROAD

12:46 PM ET

February 23, 2012

@ Marty

Oops! Sounds like someone has actually read the Koran & possibly even the hadiths. Evidently people are not supposed to do that and just take Islamic apologetics at face value!

See? There is no problem with assimilation in europe or the west. No issues with honor killings, threats and murder over cartoons or published material, gay hate or acceptance of others of different religious beliefs. I read it on the internet!

 

FREETHINKER12

4:59 PM ET

February 23, 2012

so rabbis and priests love

so rabbis and priests love gays? Do they not have honor killings in india? nepal? mexico? it has nothing to do with religion. you guys are just aiming your hatred at those that its socially acceptable to hate. Your like those cowards that rail against "illuminoties" when you really just blame the jews. coward

 

HAULROAD

10:06 AM ET

February 24, 2012

Not really...

Priests and Rabbis aren't the ones out KILLING others for their beliefs or lifestyle. All the Abrahamic religions agree on homosexuality being wrong but only Muslims are violently enforcing it.

 

FREETHINKER12

10:52 AM ET

February 24, 2012

wheres the arab, ethiopian or

wheres the arab, ethiopian or hebrew that i insulted? Your russians atheist cant hide behind that lable, your not semites. and ive said nothing anti semetic. I belong in a cage? Maybe you belong in a heated boxed cage ;)

 

FREETHINKER12

10:54 AM ET

February 24, 2012

when are you gonna condemn

when are you gonna condemn all the anti islam folk on here to cages? hypocrite. Imagine the outrage if this dude was closing down synagogues and saying jews killed jesus. All of you are hypocrites

 

FREETHINKER12

1:55 PM ET

February 24, 2012

avidgor lieberman is semetic?

avidgor lieberman is semetic? he looks more russian than putin. You might be able to call me anti khazar but not anti jewish or semetic. And one man doesnt have the license to define what a semite is. You arent semites, nor are you practicing jews so how are you jewish??

you are as semetic as a japanese is african

 

FREETHINKER12

2:01 PM ET

February 24, 2012

"Umm yeah.....we can imagine

"Umm yeah.....we can imagine it, but we would also have to imagine that Jews are doing suicide bombings, forcing their women to wear bags, propagating antisemitism and racism"

why arent you banned for such racism? Besides that small compared to starting wars every few years as your zionist brethern are always doing. Perverting society, and robbing us on wall street. you are not a jew and yet you call me an anti semite while espousing such bigoted vittriol against muslims

"calling for the death of Salman Rushdie for a fictional novel"

are you guys not advocating war against iran, that will kill thousands, do you not rain cluster bombs in lebanon for kids to play with?

"and demanding an end to free speech if someone says something they disagree with (need we forget those mohamed cartoons? "

and tell me what happens when a historians openly disputes any aspect of the holocaust? He goes to jail.

You say openly bigoted things about muslims and think you can smear anyone who disagrees with you as an anti semite. Your NOT even semites. STFU

 

PAUL ZLOTTY

3:54 PM ET

February 23, 2012

Proselytize or perish

Many religious beliefs expect their believers to spread their message and increase their fold. Islam is one such religion that has like others used violence to coerce people to follow their path.

That Islam expects of its believers only prayer is disingenuous.It is practice as laid out in the hadiths that determines a muslims adherence to religious law and the subsequent clash with common law. Many of these muslim laws are contrary to secular principles such as equality of the sexes, in every walk of life.

Can it be surprising to hear about Paks who seduce girls, who have just entered puberty, in what is euphemistically called "grooming", raping these girls repeatedy and handing them out to be raped by other men.

The justification that one hears about the girls having brought it upon themselves, both by the perpetrators and others with similar religious beliefs speaks volumes about their mental attitude.

The claim that muslims just want to pray has no substance. It is also understandable that cultures that have found themselves inundated by muslims have begun to take drastic measures. Tolerance is a two-way game and that is something that immigrants also have to practice.

 

FREETHINKER12

10:56 AM ET

February 24, 2012

muslims are rapists now?

muslims are rapists now? Raping pre pubescent girls? your sick. You remind me of people that say jews used the blood of christian youth to make bread, or that they plot to destroy all civilizations. Tsk tsk why is such bigotry allowed on here?

 

ERIK BRAMSEN

3:51 AM ET

February 26, 2012

Or look to Norway

@AMOSYARKONI
In Oslo in the period 2006-2009, 100% (as in 'every single case') of all assault rapes - rapes where the girl is assaulted by a perfect stranger - was perpetrated by non-western immigrants. 85% of the victims were ethnic Norwegians.

I gather the Moslem diaspora in the US is different from Europe; if you are educated or have some other assets you go to the United States, land of opportunity. If you're not, you go to Europe, land of welfare cheques. So Europe tend to get the illiterate and superstitious, the US gets the resourceful.

 

FREETHINKER12

4:57 PM ET

February 23, 2012

this is really just about

this is really just about white people freaking out that they are becoming minorities in their own countries. Come to america its the mexicans they rail against, europe its the muslims. and in south africa its the blacks.

 

HAULROAD

10:08 AM ET

February 24, 2012

uhh dude...

Seriously? Since when is Islam a race of human beings?

 

ERIK BRAMSEN

4:00 AM ET

February 26, 2012

Just?

So it's 'just' about white people 'freaking out' about becoming minorities in their own countries?

Yeah, what's all the fuss about? The Indians became a minority in America and that never did them any harm. And nobody complained when Whitey was colonizing India or Africa, did they? Just like nobody complains about Jews being the majority in Israel.

 

CENSORSHIP

6:03 PM ET

February 23, 2012

freethinker...are you an anti semite?

to the editors at foreignpolicy;

remove freethinker as you have removed others. Or does that not fit into your agenda?

 

MUTT3003

10:15 AM ET

February 24, 2012

Give it a rest.

What is wrong with being an anti semite? What has Israel done for the good of mankind since its inception. I do not hate Jews, for I am one. I hate what the country has become. It has become a hindrance to regional stability, trying and failing to be a "superpower" - I'm as important and as strong as the US, the Jewish religion is the only real religion, blah, blah, blah.
Everything that Israel argues that its Arab neighbors are doing to it, they are doing to to the Arabs. You have to believe something is wrong when your only "friends" in the neighboorhood are paid (US direct and military aid) to be your friends. All the while biting the hand that feeds you (US). Of course, it helps to have the backing of friendly (bribed with campaign cash) politicians, in the US.

 

FREETHINKER12

10:57 AM ET

February 24, 2012

So you zionists think you are

So you zionists think you are free to post all the anti islam postings you want but cry to get be banned when you hear something you dont like. you are hypocrits and swine.

 

FREETHINKER12

10:59 AM ET

February 24, 2012

Irony in a anti islam bigot

Irony in a anti islam bigot crying when the bigotry is turned on him. Such hypocrisy is a major trait of you zionist. If you utter anti islamic things dont cry when someone on here says something anti khazar (ur not really jews and definitely not semites)

 

KBC

4:12 PM ET

February 24, 2012

More than war of civilizations

it is the war of identities. Us vs them, our identities are based on religion, culture and civilization

 

CANADIANOBSERVER

4:34 PM ET

February 24, 2012

Yes, KBC, it is.

Of course its a war of identities.

The only difference is that Mohammedans are allowed to violently impose theirs and whine if people fight back. While Judeo-Christian civilization is condemned at even the slightest hint of suggesting their values may be superior. Not perfect. Not utopian. But superior to Mohammedan values.

Simply put - America apologized for the accidental (but respectful) burning of Qurans this week. The Ummah has not apologized and will not apologize for the dozens of people who have been INTENTIONALLY ritually slaughtered in Afghanistan this week for Mohammed's honor.

 

SPOOD

4:59 PM ET

February 24, 2012

If we are talking about what goes on in a democratic country..

...then it is not a "war of civilizations". Its just bigots who want their ideas to be considered mainstream.

Its telling that the people most whipped up in a frenzy against Muslims in the US are those with the least respect for the free exercise of religion of others or the prohibitions against the establishment of state religion. Anti-democratic Evangelicals mostly. People who do not oppose a theocratic government. They just want to be the ones in charge.

Its telling that the anti-Muslim groups in the UK and Europe find common ground with neo-nazis and other far-right antidemocratic movements. They are the KKK with snazzier uniforms. They even use the same rhetoric.

 

SPOOD

4:53 PM ET

February 24, 2012

Freethinker, Amosyarkoni, you are both wrong

Freethinker, you are an anti-semitic troll who always finds some lame excuse to fling some truly infantile half-assed bullcrap. Everyone who disagrees with you must be a "Hasbara". You have zero credibility in general.

Amosyarkoni, a democratic country like Great Britain undermines its values when it demonizes any group be they religious or ethnic or otherwise under the color of law. Whatever your views of Islam are, it has no bearing as to whether a mosque should be built or people allowed to pray in one. The American Constitution's 1st Amendment religious freedoms have been one of the most successful guidelines as to how to handle these issues.

This is nothing more than bigotry becoming mainstream. Its not much different than how Americans have tried to demonize Mexicans claiming they are the cause of increased crime, drug traffic and lowering wages.

Europeans are still struggling with the idea that national identity is not the same as cultural, religious or racial identity. In general, they hate immigrants and treat them like shit. Then they wonder why there is such hostility from them.

 

SPOOD

9:53 PM ET

February 24, 2012

"I am simply saying that

"I am simply saying that Muslims should play by the rules they wish others to abide by. If you come to the US or Great Britain and desire freedom of speech (which protects you when you demonize Jews and Christians), you can't go around protesting when someone makes a bunch of cartoons that you don't like."

Why do you hold Muslims to a standard that everyone else doesn't abide by either?

There is nothing wrong with protesting something you find offensive in a democracy. What is wrong is trying to kill someone for doing it.

People who do that and encourage such behavior deserve to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

People assimilate most easily when they are not being harassed and attacked just on the basis of their culture and religion. When you have countries which treat these people as nothing more than cheap expendable labor and their children (even one's born in the country) as nothing more than glorified tourists, it doesn't do much to encourage people to leave the protection of their enclave.

The US has plenty of ultra-religious groups whose culture are very anti-modern. As long as they follow the laws, there is no harm. [If only fundamentalists were as sedate as the Amish!]

Again, I hear the same kind of demonization done in the US when people start talking about immigrants (or more notably illegal aliens).

Europeans stink at immigration policies. Few have citizenship by birth, which is one of the most successful polices in the US for integrating immigrants. Muslims seem to be a convenient target for some very anti-democratic policies in Europe. You can't tell me that anyone in the US would seriously have considered the headscarf ban that France tried?

It is shameful to see people in a democratic country attacking people on the basis of religion. Worse still, trying to justify such behavior as if it were supposedly rational.

 

SPOOD

10:05 PM ET

February 24, 2012

"If that's the case why has

"If that's the case why has Europe's muslim immigrant population exploded (figuratively and sometimes literally) exponentially?"

Because they are still cheaper to hire than citizens, they can be deported at will as well as their families since their visas are usually employment related.

"Moreover, why would they continue to give them a large portion of the Welfare state proceeds, which they (the Muslim immigrants) disproportionately do not pay for."

For the same reason anyone is on public assistance. Because of the attendant public health and safety issues when people are sick and untreated or starving in the streets. Most people collecting public assistance are not paying into it. That is true in any country.

France's trouble with its Muslim population has a lot to do with well entrenched ingrained discrimination. Their situation is not altogether different from how blacks were treated in the 1970's. Sure Jim Crow was buried but discrimination through private actors (like redlining, blockbusting, etc) was thriving.

As for the bit concerning the European welfare state, it appears the "welfare queen" rhetoric has finally crossed the Atlantic.

 

SPOOD

10:36 PM ET

February 25, 2012

A lot of what you describe isn't unique to Muslims

"Yes, there is something wrong when you are protesting the very values of that Democracy, values which you feel entitled to, but desire to take away from others. For example, you feel you have the right to say what you want (free speech), but deny others the same right (such as publishing cartoons or criticizing your profit). "

Unfortunately we have much of the same behavior here among US conservatives, especially when the subject is religion. People who seem hellbent to attack free exercise of religion and want to establish official government sanction of their faith. Fundamentalist Muslims and Christian Reconstructionists have the same ideals. They just seem to vary on methodology and level of general global acceptance.

"Moreover, I see the opposite - Muslims trying to make the majority accomodate their culture (however antithetical it may be to the host culture), rather than try to become accustomed to the host population culture."

Have you been to Downtown Newark?

The immigrant population is so large and unassimilated there that they constructed a professional soccer stadium! SOCCER!! The most Un-American sport out there and its the only professional outdoor athletic facility in the city.

What you describe is the case with all 1st generation immigrants. People have been complaining about this in the US since the first non-English people stepped off the boats. Thanks largely in part to public education and citizenship by birth, it usually grows out after a generation or two. With opportunity comes assimilation. It becomes a necessity for anyone who wants to do business outside of their narrow ethnic economic "ghettos".

One has to bear in mind, unlike the US, European cultures tend to be more tied into language, race and religion as defining characteristics. The idea of polyglot societies tends to scare people a bit over there.

"Moreover, the antisemitism that runs rampant in much of Muslim culture is not just anti-modern, its intolerant."

Unfortunately you and I both know all too well that antisemitism seems to get a big boost from sources outside of Muslim culture as well. The Muslim immigrants at least have the (admittedly not very good) excuse of coming from countries where this sort of crap is the major form of political discourse.

Cant' say the same for some people around here.
--
You can't say the American Muslim population is as radicalized or unassimilated as European ones. Deerborne MI and downtown Brooklyn are a far cry from the Parisian "suburbs". The major differences are in the way the national culture treats its racial and religious minorities. .

It can't be just the nature of Islam. Anyone can take a walk through "Little Baghdad" in Brooklyn and feel it is one of the safer, quiet neighborhoods in the area. You can't say that about most European Muslim enclaves.

I look at the differences between the major American Muslim populations and the European ones and think to myself, what are we doing right, that they aren't?

Why are American Muslims more educated, more economically successful and more integrated into the mainstream than Europeans?

 

MARTIAL

12:08 AM ET

February 28, 2012

Religious tolerance is a fabulous characteristic

but it implies tolerance of all beliefs. That does not include actions; you can believe in polygamy all you wish in the US, but it is illegal to practice it. What this means on a practical basis is that government restrictions on any faith, be it Muslim, Bahai, Jewish, Mormon, Hindu, Cannibalism, or whatever, are attacks on all Americans. The tolerance is based on freedom of the press, such that Pastor Jones's burning the Qu'ran is fully protected speech. Now all condemned that speech, but it did indeed have the same right to be expressed as the right to proclaim to Qu'ran the Word of God. By the way, has anyone figured out how that man got that kind of attention? Jealousy lives in my heart over Pastor Jones, for there is NOTHING that would get Pres. Obama, the Pope, & the chief general in Afghanistan to speak about me.

 

MARTIAL

3:40 PM ET

February 26, 2012

Partly the problem may stem from

a difference between Britain & the United States. The US said NO very loudly in its constitution to any tie between Church & State in the religious test clause. Now that applied ONLY to the Federal government, in that there were religious tests in the several states until 1861, but there never has been a national Church in our country & never will be.

In Britain there assuredly is a national Church, the Anglican Church. Hence, the cross in the British flag. Such things have a way of lodging in pollitical discourse . What would be totally unacceptable here is a defense of the country there. Yes, we have opposition to that WTC mosque, but no one seriously thinks any court will accept any blockage of the building as being constitutional. Mayor Bloomberg has come out strongly in favor of letting the building proceed. In fact, every time someone tries this nonsense it makes national news.

 

LECHEB

12:19 PM ET

March 18, 2012

Cultures Should Be Dynamic Too

I understand that European nations what to keep their cultures and identities in tact. It is how they define themselves - their language, culture, etc. But why do they have to be such static things. Should not cultures like everything else be dynamic and change for the best with time? As I read this article on my iphone 5 4g, fighting to preserve one's culture by fighting natural change and pressures seems a bit strange.