Stop the Reckless Spying on Muslims

The New York Police Department is out of control, and it's making Americans less safe.

BY HAROON MOGHUL | FEBRUARY 24, 2012

In his news conference, Bloomberg was dismissive regarding the concerns raised about the NYPD's activities. He acknowledged that the department had to "respect people's right to privacy" but argued that the NYPD had not violated that right. Confusingly, he also said that the NYPD had to be "proactive" and pursue "allegations" -- though, again, no such allegations have come to light.

These revelations have produced tremendous frustration and disappointment in Muslim communities. On Feb. 20, the Muslim community at New York University held a students-only town-hall meeting to consider how to respond to NYPD actions. On Feb. 22, Columbia University held an open town hall that allowed many Muslim students to vent their concerns and fears. Similar discussions are taking place across the region.

Some might argue that the damage to American Muslims' trust in the U.S. policing system caused by the NYPD's activities is a necessary evil -- a bearable cost in order to keep the city safe. They could hardly be more wrong.

The NYPD's tactics have failed to yield any benefits to American security, in part because of the police force's faulty assumption that religiosity causes terrorism. The equation of Islam with violence is the reason the NYPD believes it must spy on all Muslims. But this is ignorance masquerading as police work.

University of North Carolina sociologist Charles Kurzman has found that a remarkably small number of Muslims actually "radicalize," to use the common term, and subsequent research has demonstrated that the overwhelming majority of American Muslims reject terrorism. Gallup has also conducted polls finding that the more religious a Muslim is, the less likely he or she is to find violence attractive.

By undermining its relationship with American Muslims, the NYPD also risks making the United States less safe. Every U.S. law enforcement agency may have missed Faisal Shahzad, who tried to detonate a car bomb in Times Square in May 2010, but an immigrant Muslim vendor alerted authorities to the smoking SUV and in doing so saved many lives. He's not alone. Blogger Aziz Poonawalla has exhaustively detailed the immense contributions American Muslims make to U.S. national security. For example, in the years following the 9/11 attacks, 40 percent of domestic terrorist plots by Muslims have been foiled through tips and assistance from American Muslims themselves. Since 2009, that number has jumped to 50 percent.

New York officials need to repair the damage that the NYPD has already done and take steps to ensure that its destructive tactics aren't repeated. Bloomberg should acknowledge the NYPD's wrongdoing, reveal the true scope of its clandestine activities, apologize for the real pain and harm it has caused, and establish a mechanism of civilian oversight to ensure that such activities do not take place again.

Targeting American Muslims for no other reason than their faith, across New York and the region -- it's worrying enough for Americans' civil liberties. But the NYPD's behavior also widens a worrying gap between law enforcement and the American Muslim community. "If you see something, say something," the NYPD tells us. But what happens when you have good reason to fear that if you say something, you'll be the object of suspicion instead?

Let's imagine you're a young, alienated, impressionable Muslim college kid. Every day you hear common stereotypes about Islam and Muslims; when you turn on the news, all you see is inaccurate conflations of Islam with violence. You feel nobody understands you or your faith. There are only a few people you can talk to, who you trust will understand you, treat you with dignity and respect, and act with your best interests in mind. They probably include your local imam or college chaplain.

But you won't ask the awkward questions if you believe everything you say is spied on, the places you go are monitored, and the police assume, based on your name or faith, that you are a danger to society.

Whom, then, will you turn to? And how does that make us any safer?

Spencer Platt/Getty Images

 

Haroon Moghul is a doctoral candidate at Columbia University. He is a fellow at the Center on National Security at Fordham Law School and the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding.

GURINGO

10:26 PM ET

February 24, 2012

is this Haroon for real?

"Restrictions on our rights fuel extremist arguments that Muslims will never be accepted as equals in the West."

As the quote above illustrates, this article is a farce and H. Mhogul is but a propagandist and a pretty lame one at that.

Someone should point out to him that having Muslims intercept 40% of Muslim terror plots in the US is not something to be proud of...

 

BGFJSIO8FDS9

7:38 PM ET

February 26, 2012

very good web: ===

very good web: === http://www.plzzshop.com

The website wholesale for many kinds of fashion shoes, like the nike, jordan, prada, also including the jeans, shirts, bags, hat and the decorations.

All the products are free shipping, and the the price is competitive, and also can accept the paypal payment., After the payment, can ship within short time.

We will give you a discount

WE ACCEPT PYAPAL PAYMENT

YOU MUST NOT MISS IT!!!

=== http://www.plzzshop.com

thank you!!!

Believe you will love it.

We have good reputation, fashion products,

come here quickly== http://www.plzzshop.com

Opportunity knocks but once

 

RUSTYCROKER

8:24 PM ET

February 28, 2012

...apparently not!

Just as it is a generalization to state that all Muslims are terrorists, it is also a generalization to say that the NYPD's efforts to surveillance Muslim students are based on some sort of religious discrimination.

Unfortunately, the attacks on the WTC, Madrid, and the Domodedovo, among others, were committed by Muslims and in the name of Islam. That being the case, who else is the NYPD going to surveillance? Shintoists? Though, I'm pretty sure if Shintoists would have flown jets into the twin towers, the NYPD would be watching Shintoists instead of Muslims.
Furthermore, the Domodedovo bombings, for example, were executed by "grassroots jihadists" who are not affiliated with a terrorist organization. This shows that terrorists are not limited to your everyday al-Qaeda henchman carrying an AK-47 with a beard down to his waist. It can literally be anyone.

So, what's the most logical thing to do? Well, since the NYPD can't surveillance all 10 million New Yorkers, it would probably be best to start with Muslims, since the perpetrators were, in fact, Muslims and prepared their plans in mosques blocks away from where I grew up in NYC. Seems pretty logical to me. Had it been Buddhists, surveillance Chinatown. Had it been Jews, keep on eye on Borough Park. Had it been the Mafia, place the boys in blue near Bensonhurst and Staten Island. It's not discrimination, it's logic.

Yes, there are some complexities surrounding the meaning of Muslimness, Islam and all that good stuff. But I highly doubt that the NYPD is giving primary concern to these academic themes. It's actually simpler than that. Since Muslims flew planes into the WTC, let's make sure to keep an eye out on Muslims. Plain and simple. No theory, no discrimination, just plain logic. Flawed? Maybe. But "a restriction on our rights?" No! All they have is a file, that's it.

NYPD surveillance is not an issue of discrimination or infringement on civil rights, it is logic. When a huge amount of money is stolen in an office, all employees are questioned. Should that be considered slander? Absolutely not. It's logical to question them first since they work there. Or are you going to tell me that it is more reasonable to ask the hot dog vendor?

 

PCDE

10:33 AM ET

February 25, 2012

immigration, war,

America became the greatest nation in the history of the world with little to no interaction with the muslim world. Our problems with muslims and muslim countries would disappear if we stopped the emigration of muslim people, stopped bombing and invading their lands, and stopped all further aid to Israel and muslim autocrats in Jordan, Bahrain, etc....

 

GURINGO

4:27 AM ET

February 26, 2012

JoshuaFP and PCDE - same person / comment

Wow...you must have flunk Propaganda 101... you're an embarrassment to all keyboard Jihadists, such sloppiness is unforgivable - go blow yourself up.

 

REALREALIST

3:33 PM ET

February 25, 2012

ummm, no thank you, I like my security

political correctness run amok...

ray kelly has an exemplary record...why? because he does what's right, not what's fashionable.

 

SPOOD

9:42 AM ET

February 27, 2012

As Benjamin Franklin once said

He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.

 

HURRICANEWARNING

3:46 PM ET

February 27, 2012

SPOOD

It's oh so easy to simply pull some founding father quote out of the texts and assume that it will fit EVERY situation we find ourselves in today. I suspect that Benjamin Franklin, as intelligent as he was, would feel very uneasy with all the overuse of his language these days.

Please explain to us how exactly we as Americans are really "sacrificing" our freedom for security, when the NYPD monitors people within the Muslim community who MAY have links to terror plots? Don't be grandiose. Don't exaggerate the threat to freedom this poses. Just please explain to the board how exactly our freedom is under attack when the NYPD does the job it failed to do prior to 9/11? How exactly are you affected by this monitoring of Muslims? Or...maybe it's just that you don't want to think too hard about this topic; and instead pulled a FF quote from the ether and plugged it into the situation because it was the easy way out. Another note: Benjamin Franklin was not infallible, he was not omnipotent, and neither were his thoughts and quotes.

 

SPOOD

4:32 PM ET

February 27, 2012

Its called the 4th Amendment

Law enforcement is not allowed to search, put someone under surveillance or monitor their activities without some kind of official sanction in the form of a warrant or at the very least probable cause. Something which can be explained in a public setting and subject to questioning.

You can't just profile people or follow them around just because of their ethnicity or religion. You have to have a reason. One specific to that person and their activities.

If we are taking a big dump over those Constitutional protections for the sake of allegedly protecting the public, then you are sacrificing liberty for safety.

 

LOZER123

10:45 PM ET

March 1, 2012

And we even talk about war

There is no obvious plan for nuclear bomb nor Iranians would dare to cause a war in the region. The country is already isolated, their only insurance, the oil, would be all gone if they start a war. No other country would be on their side, not even their long term insurance, Russia & China. Having said that, we do not have money to fight another war either. Rather than trying to fix the economy, I cannot believe that the politicians are competing to see who can scare people into voting them to bomb Iran. This is the insurance we need for us? This is the insurance we need for our families? no.

 

MODERNAMERICANMAN

6:03 PM ET

February 25, 2012

Hooray for the NYPD!

I'm glad that I read this article, because I feel more secure now knowing that we are watching these people more closely. Furthermore, I encourage all Americans to pressure our government representatives to ban the practice of Islam in America, as it is not a religion any more than Communism is a religion. Furthermore, all of our troops should return home immediately. It is not worth one soldier's life to try to help these people.

 

MODERNAMERICANMAN

6:16 PM ET

February 25, 2012

About the author

It is no wonder that the author is offended by Muslim monitoring. He himself is a Muslim and follower of Islam. One of his primary influences is none other than Dr. Mohammad Iqbal, who was one of the first to advocate the formation of Pakistan as an independent Muslim State. One of his main goals in life is to assist in the reformation of Islam...but the question is...what kind of reform?

 

SCOTT83

7:10 PM ET

February 25, 2012

Spare us

"American Muslims are, in fact, the most accomplished and educated segment of the global population of 1.5 billion Muslims"

And what does that tell us?

That the place where a Muslim is most likely to thrive is where he is not governed by Muslims.

That is hardly a good statistic, is it?

Beyond this there is the author's predictable complaining about rights that Muslims have never (and would never) give to their own brothers let alone another religious group.

 

SPOOD

10:01 PM ET

February 25, 2012

Or it means something else

That a country which is devoted to religious freedom and democracy does better by its people than theocratic dictatorships.

We crap over that tradition by descending into authoritarian policies. Our society should not be sanctioning using secret police to harass people on the basis of their religion. We are not Saudi Arabia.

The more you think you are fighting religiously inspired terrorists with this crap, the more you become just like them.

This was not brilliant detective work, this was wasting resources by spreading them out. Many of the failed terror plots in the last few years were foiled more by the incompetence of the terrorists than the brilliant work of our law enforcement agencies.

 

SPOOD

10:32 AM ET

February 26, 2012

A little perspective here

-----Spying on a rafting trip is nothing like blowing up a bus or building.

You are not going to stop terrorism by using local constables to harass people based on nothing more than ethnic profiling. It has never worked before, its not going to work now.

We live in a democracy, we give defined limits as to how our law enforcement forces have to act. You aren't going to fight it effectively by adopting anti-democratic tactics. Real detective work is whats needed here.

----The CIA always claims that you don't hear about their success, only their failures, because their successes remain secret, as they should. It's hard to know how many plots are foiled by intelligence and law enforcement.

We are talking about the NYPD here. They want the world to hear of their success. This is not a clandestine intelligence organization. The NYPD has been trying to play up anti-terror credentials in the media for a while. Its a lot of posturing.

Mostly in order to:
- jockey for federal anti-terror funding
-spur recruitment (despite being the lowest paid police force within the metropolitan area) -smooth over some not so pleasant prior efforts (although crime in Manhattan has decreased, it has been on the rise in the outer boroughs)

The truth of the matter is the police of any major European city have decades more experience and higher levels of training and skills in combating terrorism than they do.

The NYPD has been acting in a ham-handed, embarrassingly obvious manner which does nothing but find a new scandal to pin on them.

 

JOSHUAFP

11:07 PM ET

February 25, 2012

No War if.....

America became the greatest nation in the history of the world with little bad interaction with the muslim world. Our problems with muslims and muslim countries would disappear if we stopped the emigration of muslim people, stopped bombing and invading their lands, and stopped all further aid to Israel and muslim autocrats in Jordan, Bahrain, etc....

What I mention here is true - stop killing, stop invade and stop bad perception will stop the War between West - Muslim. America as a big power (WordPress Themes) country should think about this.

 

GURINGO

2:44 AM ET

February 26, 2012

the hell you say

Our problems with Islam would disappear if only we a) b) c) etc....????

'..with little bad interaction with the Muslim world' (sic) - you mean the Barbary Wars??

Let's pretend that your English doesn't betray your non-western origins and that you're just another loopy leftard with his head up his own derriere (excuse the redundancy), in which case, like so many kumbaya-kafiya-klowns, you're only projecting your own decrepit self onto a vastly foreign and hostile collective defined by its militant doctrine of sanctified subjugation, intolerance and intimidation, all of which you're willing to tolerate elsewhere on the planet as you advocate capitulation.

But then, your 'what I mention here is true' (or I keel yoo!) pegs you as one sick imposter/apologist. Better luck next time.

re: Barbary Wars

President Madison’s words on this occasion could scarcely be bettered: “It is a settled policy of America, that as peace is better than war, war is better than tribute. The United States, while they wish for war with no nation, will buy peace with none.” -Christopher Hitchens

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_2_urbanities-thomas_jefferson.html

 

GURINGO

4:33 AM ET

February 26, 2012

JoshuaFP and PCDE - same person / comment

You're one of the dumbest keyboard Jihadist out there, thanks for the chuckles.

 

BDL2010

1:38 AM ET

February 26, 2012

Catch 22

First off we can't blame the government when they fail to recognize and track threats and then blame them when they try to track potential threats.

Second are these students American's or Muslims? I'm confused. No one goes around saying American Jew or American Christian. So are they US citizens or not? If they are US Citizens then they have constitutional rights and if NYPD is trampling on them without a warrant then I say you have a valid complaint. If they are not US citizens then your complaint is going to fall on deaf ears.

Third I'd like to know why you are travelling around teaching them about Muslim Law, History and Identity. They are in US Universities and need to learn about Democratic systems. It sounds like you are just compounding the problem and creating more division.

 

GURINGO

4:12 AM ET

February 26, 2012

you mean Catch-72

1. "Far from "keeping the country safe," as Bloomberg stated, the NYPD is making us less safe."

See? It's the cops fault if Muslims go full jihad on us, how dare they undertake surveillance measures when such measures will provoke them to violence....

2. "Restrictions on our rights fuel extremist arguments that Muslims will never be accepted as equals in the West."

Muslims do not have restricted rights in the US, as opposed to the ethnic and religious minorities in the Muslim world.. and the extremists would never appeal to the moderates with a so-called 'see, they'll never accept you as equals' argument, that only plays out for gullible westerners, the excremists have only one argument - 'the Koran says so', anything else would be construed as supplanting said argument

 

SPOOD

11:01 AM ET

February 26, 2012

Muslims in NYC going full jihad?

Have you actually seen the Muslim immigrant neighborhoods in NYC?

New York has the second largest Muslim population in the US. It isn't like Paris or London. Those are hardly areas you would call slums. We are talking about a fairly sedate, largely upwardly mobile, politically active group.

More interesting is in Brooklyn their neighborhood is near several large Jewish enclaves and is in one of the most demographically mixed in the boro. This is not a flashpoint for major unrest. There is more tension between racial groups than there is worry about Muslims getting antsy.

It would be nice if the NYPD used more of its resources to actually combating street crime instead of posturing for national television.

 

BDL2010

9:51 PM ET

February 26, 2012

neither of you addressed the second or third point?

So I will ask again. Are they Americans or are they Muslims, Muslim Americans or Muslims Students in America?

If they are Americans then their rights have been violated unless a warrant was issued. If they are not American citizens and are here on a visa then they should be watched and should not be protected by the constitution.

Also neither of you commented ont he fact that the author is going around teaching Muslim values to Muslims. What's that all about.

Please read my comments this time before you bother to reply.

 

SPOOD

9:40 AM ET

February 27, 2012

The NYPD wasn't making the distinction

"So are they US citizens or not? If they are US Citizens then they have constitutional rights and if NYPD is trampling on them without a warrant then I say you have a valid complaint. If they are not US citizens then your complaint is going to fall on deaf ears."

You are getting it half right. In this country the police or any law enforcement agency needs probable cause to be following ANYONE around. The 4th Amendment is there for a reason. Indiscriminate surveillance is something which can be abused far too easily.

If they are not US citizens or permanent resident aliens, they may be stopped by Federal officials for issues involving their visas. But unless you have a good reason to be watching them, it is a valid complaint.

My suggestion is that you research the limits on how a government can act against civil liberties in a democracy.

 

COLIN ROSS

1:38 AM ET

February 26, 2012

Great article. Scary

Great article. Scary comments.

Surveillance of people solely based on their religion or race is ugly, unAmerican and ineffective.The overt bigotry and fear on display in some of these comments is worse.

And check out veteran police reporter Leonard Levitt's column at nypdconfidential.com for Ray Kelly's very spotty record--even on counterterrorism. As can happen to any well-intentioned institution, lack of oversight at the NYPD has led to abuse and lapsed standards.

 

KBC

7:44 AM ET

February 26, 2012

It is certainly

disconcerting that the chasm between Muslims and non Muslims has increased after 911. On one side, Muslims are raising the genuine concerns of persecution and on the other side, we have people with genuine concerns on Muslim collective responsibility of terrorist attacks.

This is not to deny that their are wackos who would go for a terrorist attack without bothering about religion. But then we have wackos who would blow themselves up in the name of religion coming out only from Islam.

If some one asks me to name the most popular Muslim in the world, I would call Osama (PBUH). This is certainly something that Muslims have to change. If I look at this in another way, more Muslims have died in conflicts across the world every year in last 10 years than from any other religion.

 

SPOOD

10:41 AM ET

February 26, 2012

Something to keep in mind in this conversation

Unlike Europe, a huge percentage of Muslims in America aren't immigrants.

About half of them are native born converts or 2nd+ generation Americans. We can't use the same arguments which would apply to immigrants in general (ie using European examples) when discussing them here.

 

MARTIAL

4:10 PM ET

February 26, 2012

Scandal in the New York Police Department? Shocking,

shocking, shocking.

The first question: why someone in Connecticut would be able to say anything about the actions of municipal police in New York? These men & women in blue have no business officially setting foot in outside city limits without the expressed agreement of the government where the feet will lie.

This would not be the first time such a breech of limits of jurisdiction occurred. Gov. MacDonnell of Virginia objected to NYPD investigations in Virginia concerning illegal guns in NYC. No matter what your opinion of gun laws is, the objection was proper & vita.

 

F.B. DE ABARCA

4:11 PM ET

February 26, 2012

Ode to Clarification

Reckless?

What, precisely, has proven to be reckless?

Has identifying the source of possible attacks been in error or reckless?
Opinions will undoubtedly be biased, but recent developments support the N.Y.P.D. intelligence unit's concern's.

Is a thorough discovery process for the sake of prevention reckless?

Has any student's career been unjustly compromised or individual character publicly assaulted?

I agree, reckless spying aught not occur, but this does not appear to be reckless spying, but the actions of a force designed primarily to
prevent attacks doing precisely what they are requested by the general public to do. Doing otherwise? Now that would be reckless.

On a lesser point--is the fact that a student attends a 'high-caliber' university render them somehow incapable of engaging in anti-social behaviors?

 

MARTIAL

5:46 PM ET

February 26, 2012

Jurisdiction, Mr. | Ms. De Abarca, is no

mere sideshow. If this matter is not settled on behalf of governments outside NYC, the time to join NYPD is NOW. Have you any idea how many New Yorkers fail to pay parking fines before absconding to well-known terrorist hideouts like London, Paris, & Zurish. Thousands & thousands year in & year out. For all you know, they are going to these places to commit parking violations in foreign countries. Provided NYC pays for things (& if you do a bit of reading on police corruption there you will find out that's usually not a problem), I'd be the first to VOLUNTEER for the arduous task of flying first class, staying in similar hotels, preferably the same hotel, eating at the same restaurants, & visiting the same venues as the scufflaws. No one on my watch will commit parking violations in foreign cities; that's a promise I can definitely keep.

 

MARTIAL

10:51 PM ET

February 26, 2012

List of the most corrupt cities confirms NYC has a problem.

This nice paper on corruption, intended to shame the locals in Chicago, by Dick Simpson, James Nowlan, Thomas J. Gradel, Melissa Mouritsen, Zmuda, David Sterrett, & Douglas Cantor shows NY is #4 per capita (Table 4) & # 1 overall (Table 2). Two NYC districts are in the top ten, the only city so honored.

http://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/leadingthepack.pdf

A great way to give corrupt cops a bit of extra income is to open the door a crack by letting jurisdictional niceties go by the wayside.

 

MARKJUDDY112223

5:57 PM ET

February 26, 2012

Spying on a rafting trip is

Spying on a rafting trip is nothing like blowing up a bus or building.

You are not going to stop terrorism by using local constables to harass people based on nothing more than ethnic profiling. It has never worked before, its not going to work now.

We live in a democracy, we give defined limits as to how our law enforcement forces have to act. You aren't going to fight it effectively by adopting anti-democratic tactics. Real detective work is whats needed here.

----The CIA always claims that you don't hear about their success, only their failures, because their successes remain secret, as they should. It's hard to know how many plots are foiled by intelligence and law enforcement.

We are talking about the NYPD here. They want the world to hear of their success. This is not a clandestine intelligence organization. The NYPD has been trying to play up anti-terror credentials in the media for a while. Its a lot of posturing.

Mostly in order to:
- jockey for federal anti-terror funding
-spur recruitment (despite being the lowest paid police force within the metropolitan area) -smooth over some not so pleasant prior efforts (although crime in Manhattan has decreased, it has been on the rise in the outer boroughs)

The truth of the matter is the police of any major European city have decades more experience and higher levels of training and skills in combating terrorism than they do.

The NYPD has been acting in a ham-handed, embarrassingly obvious manner which does nothing but find a new scandal to pin on them.Spying on a rafting trip is nothing like blowing up a bus or building.

You are not going to stop terrorism by using local constables to harass people based on nothing more than ethnic profiling. It has never worked before, its not going to work now.

We live in a democracy, we give defined limits as to how our law enforcement forces have to act. You aren't going to fight it effectively by adopting anti-democratic tactics. Real detective work is whats needed here.

----The CIA always claims that you don't hear about their success, only their failures, because their successes remain secret, as they should. It's hard to know how many plots are foiled by intelligence and law enforcement.

We are talking about the NYPD here. They want the world to hear of their success. This is not a clandestine intelligence organization. The NYPD has been trying to play up anti-terror credentials in the media for a while. Its a lot of posturing.

Mostly in order to:
- jockey for federal anti-terror funding
-spur recruitment (despite being the lowest paid police force within the metropolitan area) -smooth over some not so pleasant prior efforts (although crime in Manhattan has decreased, it has been on the rise in the outer boroughs)

The truth of the matter is the police of any major European city have decades more experience and higher levels of training and skills in combating terrorism than they do.

The NYPD has been acting in a ham-handed, embarrassingly obvious manner which does nothing but find a new scandal to pin on them.Spying on a rafting trip is nothing like blowing up a bus or building.

You are not going to stop terrorism by using local constables to harass people based on nothing more than ethnic profiling. It has never worked before, its not going to work now.

We live in a democracy, we give defined limits as to how our law enforcement forces have to act. You aren't going to fight it effectively by adopting anti-democratic tactics. Real detective work is whats needed here.

----The CIA always claims that you don't hear about their success, only their failures, because their successes remain secret, as they should. It's hard to know how many plots are foiled by intelligence and law enforcement.

We are talking about the NYPD here. They want the world to hear of their success. This is not a clandestine intelligence organization. The NYPD has been trying to play up anti-terror credentials in the media for a while. Its a lot of posturing.

Mostly in order to:
- jockey for federal anti-terror funding
-spur recruitment (despite being the lowest paid police force within the metropolitan area) -smooth over some not so pleasant prior efforts (although crime in Manhattan has decreased, it has been on the rise in the outer boroughs)

The truth of the matter is the police of any major European city have decades more experience and higher levels of training and skills in combating terrorism than they do.

The NYPD has been acting in a ham-handed, embarrassingly obvious manner which does nothing but find a new scandal to pin on them.Spying on a rafting trip is nothing like blowing up a bus or building.

You are not going to stop terrorism by using local constables to harass people based on nothing more than ethnic profiling. It has never worked before, its not going to work now.

We live in a democracy, we give defined limits as to how our law enforcement forces have to act. You aren't going to fight it effectively by adopting anti-democratic tactics. Real detective work is whats needed here.

----The CIA always claims that you don't hear about their success, only their failures, because their successes remain secret, as they should. It's hard to know how many plots are foiled by intelligence and law enforcement.

We are talking about the NYPD here. They want the world to hear of their success. This is not a clandestine intelligence organization. The NYPD has been trying to play up anti-terror credentials in the media for a while. Its a lot of posturing.

Mostly in order to:
- jockey for federal anti-terror funding
-spur recruitment (despite being the lowest paid police force within the metropolitan area) -smooth over some not so pleasant prior efforts (although crime in Manhattan has decreased, it has been on the rise in the outer boroughs)

The truth of the matter is the police of any major European city have decades more experience and higher levels of training and skills in combating terrorism than they do.

The NYPD has been acting in a ham-handed, embarrassingly obvious manner which does nothing but find a new scandal to pin on them.Spying on a rafting trip is nothing like blowing up a bus or building.

You are not going to stop terrorism by using local constables to harass people based on nothing more than ethnic profiling. It has never worked before, its not going to work now.

We live in a democracy, we give defined limits as to how our law enforcement forces have to act. You aren't going to fight it effectively by adopting anti-democratic tactics. Real detective work is whats needed here.

----The CIA always claims that you don't hear about their success, only their failures, because their successes remain secret, as they should. It's hard to know how many plots are foiled by intelligence and law enforcement.

We are talking about the NYPD here. They want the world to hear of their success. This is not a clandestine intelligence organization. The NYPD has been trying to play up anti-terror credentials in the media for a while. Its a lot of posturing.

Mostly in order to:
- jockey for federal anti-terror funding
-spur recruitment (despite being the lowest paid police force within the metropolitan area) -smooth over some not so pleasant prior efforts (although crime in Manhattan has decreased, it has been on the rise in the outer boroughs)

The truth of the matter is the police of any major European city have decades more experience and higher levels of training and skills in combating terrorism than they do.

The NYPD has been acting in a ham-handed, embarrassingly obvious manner which does nothing but find a new scandal to pin on them.Spying on a rafting trip is nothing like blowing up a bus or building.

You are not going to stop terrorism by using local constables to harass people based on nothing more than ethnic profiling. It has never worked before, its not going to work now.

We live in a democracy, we give defined limits as to how our law enforcement forces have to act. You aren't going to fight it effectively by adopting anti-democratic tactics. Real detective work is whats needed here.

----The CIA always claims that you don't hear about their success, only their failures, because their successes remain secret, as they should. It's hard to know how many plots are foiled by intelligence and law enforcement.

We are talking about the NYPD here. They want the world to hear of their success. This is not a clandestine intelligence organization. The NYPD has been trying to play up anti-terror credentials in the media for a while. Its a lot of posturing.

Mostly in order to:
- jockey for federal anti-terror funding
-spur recruitment (despite being the lowest paid police force within the metropolitan area) -smooth over some not so pleasant prior efforts (although crime in Manhattan has decreased, it has been on the rise in the outer boroughs)

The truth of the matter is the police of any major European city have decades more experience and higher levels of training and skills in combating terrorism than they do.

The NYPD has been acting in a ham-handed, embarrassingly obvious manner which does nothing but find a new scandal to pin on them.agenda software Microsoft project 2010

 

REALREALIST

11:43 PM ET

February 26, 2012

lets be honest...

terrorism in this day and age largely comes from one population. muslims. therefore, to not spy on them in mosques, restaurants, schools, libraries, amusement parks...lol..wherever, would be irresponsible.

have a great evening!

 

SPOOD

9:18 AM ET

February 27, 2012

But you aren't being honest

Riiight, Muslims in this country have been responsible for the majority of acts such as bombing medical clinics, burning churches and synagogues, robbing banks, shooting police officers, blowing up federal installations. Its been such a campaign of terror that Deerborn Michigan looks like Falluja.

Oh wait, no they haven't.

We have terrorists coming from a bunch of different populations. Most of our homegrown terrorists and organized criminals (terrorism is just a mafia with an agenda) are coming from a wide variety of sources.

Profliling, especially in such an obvious and illegal manner doesn't do squat. Clever terrorists would just work around such things.

 

PCDE

12:10 AM ET

February 27, 2012

from Morocco to ...

From Morocco to Egypt, from Arabia north to Turkey, from Turkey to Pakistan ...... No one wants to emigrate to these lands. They Suck. Unfortunately, the peoples from these lands wish to contaminate America.... and we allow them.

If America refused to allow third world turds to emigrate here, we would not have to surveil them.

 

CEASAR AUGUSTUS 2

12:34 AM ET

February 27, 2012

sounds like a duck

History moves forward, although it seems the opposite. Muslims in America, unlike most if not all the other ethnic groups in the country, are the new kids in the block. No muslim that I know of died fighting for the US in the last century, leaving alone the 19th one. Some of them became known in the 50's and 60' like Malcom x or Muhammad Ali'. In retrospective, unlike any of the other major ethnic groups, they have contributed little to nothing to the country, they have no cultural or achievement that avails them to have any moral rights to what America has to offer, except for the fact that the discovery of oil in Saudi Arabia gave them a sense of entitlement to the US, after Bin el Saud gave Rockefeller the rights to oil with the Aramco venture. On the wake of the importance that oil has had to the West, Muslims have embarked on their religious belief that Islam is superior to the West or any other culture for the matter, and ultimately by shear power of their demographic ability to multiply like rabbits, will outnumber anyone else. So we have a culture of death and martyrdom via Jihad and uber-prolification through polygamism. Very strange combination. I read all the protests by the libs here about freedom and rights. Well as it may be true that not all muslims may be terrorists, it seems that all terrorists, today are muslims. You can take the highbrowed approach about non citizens or so, the fact is that you must take a oath to defend the US against all enemies domestic or foreign before you can reside in the US. I know it because I took this oath. So after 9/11, what the NYPD is doing is the very least to ensure that 9/11s won't happen again, and sorry Muslims, you brought it upon yourselves, you are just lucky that it's not 1942.

 

SPOOD

9:29 AM ET

February 27, 2012

Sounds like crap

1. As I said before, only half of the Muslim population here are immigrants. They are not a single ethnic group by any stretch of the imagination.
MANY OF THEM ARE NATIVE-BORN US CITIZENS!

2. Plenty of Muslims died for this country and other democratic ones in the last century. Just because you don't bother to find this out doesn't mean squat.
http://books.google.com/books?id=owZCMZpYamMC&pg=PA567&lpg=PA567&dq=muslim+american+casualties+in+world+war+II&source=bl&ots=_DJVNycClg&sig=H-HMkSS1Kmb0KsyXEH3OATAD42I&hl=en&sa=X&ei=dJFLT6O3J-b00gG9zpCnDg&ved=0CGAQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=muslim%20american%20casualties%20in%20world%20war%20II&f=false

3. If people are on our side of the US border, they are treated in accordance to our own laws as expected from a democracy which values personal liberties.

If you truly believe in an oath to defend and protect the US from enemies foreign and domestic, then you would understand why it is important to uphold our laws, our Constitution and civil liberties. To do any less is to be no better than terrorists.

 

CEASAR AUGUSTUS 2

2:27 PM ET

February 27, 2012

Spoodie the islamo- ostrich

I have been surfing the web to se a list of US muslims that died for the US. I couldn't find anything to verify their exact number if any. What I know is that I have visited US military cemeteries in Europe, France and Italy, and in those seas of white crosses marking the graves of those brave boys, I didn't see a single half crescent, Mogen Davids many, but nothing that would indicate a muslim death. Now the French used colonial troops from N Africa and they are paying dearly today for their stupidity, but I am talking about US soldiers here. You don't seem to have the counterpunch about the rest of my observations, the fact that 50% of the muslim here are immigratnts, proves that seen they had to take the same oath I was talking about, those new brand of muslim youths are perjuring themselves by believing that the Koran allows them to lie to the Infidels. I can assure you that politically correctedness will accelerate the dowfall of this country, especially if that Taqqyia master in the WH gets re-elected. However before a half moon flag will be hoisted on the WH, hell will freeze over. Just let the Jihadis carry on another attack similar to the twin towers, and the sands of Arabia and North africa will be again your native grounds, us born or not. You just name me a Muslim country in this world that can compare in civil liberties for every one to the US, that is why you can spood your biased lies on the Internet. Still waiting for the muslim scientific rostrum of Nobel laureates. Islam is not a religion of peace, it is a cowardly, violent, intolerant movement that should be treated like Communism rather than, Buddhism, Judaism or Christianity. Now go and face Mecca!

 

SPOOD

5:22 PM ET

February 27, 2012

You can wrap yourself in the flag as much as you want

But your argument is still crap and littered with ignorance, generalizations and bigotry. All this sort of activity does is make bigots feel better about themselves and pat themselves on the back for not being Muslim.

This kind of blind surveillance and profiling is not seriously doing jack to stop terrorism, it attacks our basic way of life and making it easier for terrorists to recruit here.

Making half-baked remarks about what you think all Muslims believe and how they act isn't going to assure me you are being rational here. You don't respect their religion. I get that. It doesn't matter. The NYPD was still doing something illegal and inexcusable. There is no such thing as an ends which can justify the means of attacking our civil liberties.

We live in a democracy. Have some respect and appreciation for what that is worth. We do not descend into police state tactics because we are fearful. It never works. Its always counterproductive.

"You just name me a Muslim country in this world that can compare in civil liberties for every one to the US"

Don't care. Not relevant to the argument. My concern isn't with what other countries are doing. I don't take my cues from dictatorships as to how a government is supposed to act. If people are in our borders we treat them according to the rule of law of our country.

Its not a matter of spying on them because they are Muslim. It doesn't matter what religion they are. It is still something which is prohibited in this country. There is no excuse for attacking basic tenets of our Constitutionally protected liberties. Once we start chipping away at them for this reason, we will find other reasons to undermine it. Soon enough the Bill of Rights will be a useless worthless scrap of paper.

 

SPOOD

5:26 PM ET

February 27, 2012

He's scum, but he is not doing anything illegal

Yet out of those "not real Muslims" we have Joseph Padilla the alleged "dirty bomber". Obviously they are a population which needs to be taken into account here.

I have no respect for Farrakan as a person or his views.

However, I respect our 1st Amendment right for him to worship and to speak his views.

As vile as they are, free speech is still free speech. Religious freedom is a necessity to a democracy.

 

SPOOD

6:23 PM ET

February 27, 2012

Except they have a right to

Except they have a right to protest and nobody has to take the protests seriously. Free speech isn't there to protect what is popular, its there to protect what isn't. People have a right to voice their views even if they are obnoxious.

Nobody was stopping Comedy Central from depicting Mohammed in South Park, it was just a "safe call" from a cable network which acted timidly. Nobody was putting a gun to their heads here either figuratively or literally. TV networks are notorious for kowtowing to the threat of loss of advertisers from any kind of protester. Its annoying and infantile, but they are in their right to act this way.

Threats of violence cannot be tolerated and have to be treated accordingly under our rule of law. Its adherence to rule of law which is important here. Shout and scream all you want. If you start attacking people or making threats of violence, you deserve to get locked up. No exceptions.

You can't say that those Muslims didn't have a right to protest. You were just annoyed that they were. Its understandable but its part of what we have to deal with living in a free society.

Ultimately I don't give a crap what Muslims believe or how they express it while they are in the US as long as they adhere to the laws and we do the same. When we start bending the laws which govern how our officials must behave to fit matters of expedience, it doesn't ever stop.

I would rather deal with obnoxious protesters than thought police.

 

CEASAR AUGUSTUS 2

6:33 PM ET

February 27, 2012

To spood the sanctimonius liberal democrat sphincter

Wow, you don't like to be pinned down, you squeal generalizations and insults, what the Muslims believe it is Arlequin's secret, everybody knows ad nauseam what they believe. No machination of my brain here. Your rants about the NYPD, sound like screeches of the seventy year old maid shown a picture of a coitus. Now about your beloved Democracy, you should read Plato's Republic and how dangerous he tought it was it is as a form of government, because the village idiot has the same saying as the phylosopher in determining everyone's welfare. Or, Aristotle, he put it more bluntly by saying: "Republic's degenerate in Democracies and they in turn die in Tyrannies". No, I don't repect anybody that believes that women or children have less value than grown men, and that decency, honesty and human kindness are to be reserved for those that believe like you. With all your liberal hysteria, I'd like to remind you that one of the most liberal manifesto ever written, the one of the Weimar Republic, degenerated in nazism. You bet your liberal anus, that in spite of your hysterical diatribe, I praise a system that honors and protect its citizen, even over the screeches of liberal amoebas like you. Now to honor Socrates, go and have a pint of hemlock!

 

SPOOD

12:17 PM ET

February 28, 2012

Now back to the subject at hand

And did the government just sit idly by while the violence occurred or did they make an effort to arrest them?

The behavior was not tolerated and was considered criminal. Free speech does not extend to threats of imminent violence. Never has. Criminals deserve to be punished. Guilt by association is not something acceptable by our laws. I don't believe for one minute we have to

The big problem with this ILLEGAL spying on people by the local police force is that even if they do turn up anything useful, it will be completely inadmissible in a court of law. Any defense attorney in NYC from the lowliest outer boro public defender to your high paid "Johnny Cochranes" can get this sort of material easily excluded.

Whoever gets arrested based on this information will walk. Plain and simple. That is unless want to completely envicerate our 4th Amendment rights and protections in order to get your way.

Its not going to protect the public, its not going to lead to breaking up any potential terror rings. Its illegal, its an attack on the civil liberties of all Americans, it puts too much power in the hands of people very likely to abuse it.

 

SPOOD

12:25 PM ET

February 28, 2012

Do me a favor and take a look at our Constitution,

Most of all take a look at our 1st and 4th Amendments.

You are an ignorant bigot who doesn't know a damn thing about the issues involved. Your sole response is to hurl invective.

My position is a very easy one to understand.

I strongly believe the rule of law is essential to a functioning democracy. This is not just a blanket statement. I understand what laws we have which protect individuals in our country. I understand sometimes its necessary will bend them and twist them under the right conditions. But I can't abide by outright breaking of these rules.

I don't believe there can be any exception or compromise to the values and laws our nation has crafted for over 200+ years just for the expedience of appealing to panic and bigotry. It never worked before, its not going to work now.

 

SPOOD

12:28 PM ET

February 28, 2012

The comment above was directed at Caesar Augustus 2

Amosyarkoni, I was not commenting on your stuff. I apologize if it came out that way. Poor editing on my part. Mea Culpa.

 

TINGTINGTT

8:28 AM ET

February 27, 2012

sdgd

P90X Extreme Fitness System ONLY ONLY 42$$$$$$$
sorry to disturb u. just take u a little time.
If you are in need, welcome to :?http://www.proxy4biz.com?
puma gucci$35,nike jordans six ring,yeezy$%5!!
new era caps$16 gucci handbags
jeans,t-shirts sunglass,caps
true religion jeans$35,ca,ed hardy jeans$35
LV,CHANAL,HANDBAGS$35
NIKE SHOX+AIR MAX+TL3+OZ+NZ ONLY $35
UGG TIMBLAND+LACOSTE SHOES+ED HARDY SHOES$35
DIESEL T-SHIRT,GSTAR T-SHIRT,CA T-SHIRT,50% OFF FOR SALE $15
DIOR SUNGLASS,DG SUNGLASS$15

 

ALIFELIX

6:00 PM ET

March 13, 2012

No Harm No Foul

While it is understandable that it is upsetting to American Muslims that the government is actively watching them, the NYPD has not done any serious harm or done anything that completely crosses the line. What has been omitted from this article is what tragic things have been prevented by the NYPD's surveillance. I'm sure it fully out weighs the negative impact written about in this article. I think after finishing this read on my iphone 5 apple is that the world is not perfect and this is a case where there is some bad, but mostly good.

 

CORTES

10:32 PM ET

March 24, 2012

Let's envision you're a

Let's envision you're a young, alienated, impressionable Muslim university kid. Every day you hear typical stereotypes pertaining to Islam and Muslims; when you switch on the news, all you view is incorrect conflations of Islam by having violence. You feel nobody grasps you or your faith. You feel it's all zoinks to them. There are just a couple of folks you can easily consult with, who you trust will comprehend you, treat you with dignity and recognition, and act by having your greatest interests in mind. They quite possibly feature your local imam or university chaplain.