America's Israel Obsession

Why are Americans so preoccupied with my country?

BY SHMUEL ROSNER | MARCH 2, 2012

In mid-December of last year, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, "with all due respect," declined a request to write an op-ed for the New York Times. In his rejection letter, Netanyahu's senior advisor, Ron Dermer, claimed to have counted up Times (and International Herald Tribune) articles and concluded that of the 20 articles related to Israel published between September and November 2011, 19 portrayed Israel in a negative light. It would seem, he wrote, "as if the surest way to get an op-ed published in the New York Times these days, no matter how obscure the writer or the viewpoint, is to attack Israel."

If one puts aside for a moment the question of pro- or anti-Israel bias, it does seem that the surest way to get an op-ed published anywhere in the United States is to write something about Israel. Since I received a request to write this article for Foreign Policy, I've visited the FP site daily and counted the articles on different topics and countries. You can try it yourself using the search engine: Israel was written about more than Britain, Germany, Greece, India, or Russia. And next week it will be written about even more, as Netanyahu comes to Washington to make yet another speech before the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) and meet with U.S. President Barack Obama to discuss Iran strategy and other matters.

Counting mentions of Israel in various American forums is an old habit of mine. Four years ago, in the run-up to the 2008 U.S. presidential election, I begged the candidates to "resist the temptation" to constantly talk about Israel or express their profound love for the Jewish state. I wrote then:

Last week in the vice-presidential debate, Israel's name was mentioned 17 times. China was mentioned twice, Europe just once. Russia didn't come up at all. Nor Britain, France, or Germany.

Needless to say, my advice has not been heeded. In December 2011, I listened to the Republican presidential candidates compete to prove their friendship with Israel at a meeting of the Republican Jewish Coalition. (Mitt Romney promised to visit Israel before visiting any other country; Newt Gingrich said that he would move the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem on the first day of his presidency.) In early January, like many other journalists from many other foreign countries, I traveled to Iowa to cover the Republican caucuses and had to wonder again about writers from other countries:

Do they not feel neglected amid all this talk about my country? In the more than one dozen campaign events I attended, I didn't hear one word about Japan or Russia or Germany or France or Italy. Europe was mentioned occasionally, as in, "President Obama wants the United States to become like Europe, and we have to stop him." China was mentioned sporadically; Brazil, maybe once. Israel? Every time.

There's more than one reason that Israel became a topic of such constant conversation among American writers, opinion-makers, politicians, and policy wonks. Undeniably, Israel is interesting. It is conveniently located in an area that is continuously a producer of dramatic news, a place to which journalists can easily travel and from which they can easily write -- the one country in the Middle East that doesn't violently prevent the media from doing its job. Then there's the "special relationship" factor: Israel is a U.S. ally, and a strong and vocal lobby of both Jews and Christians is working to preserve the two countries' ties. It is a place for which many Americans have special affinity for religious reasons, meaning that any story on Israel is likely to generate both pageviews and impassioned comments. There's also the politics: Israel is a tool with which candidates for office hammer one another. That's to say nothing of the fact that American Jews, while a tiny minority of the U.S. population, are well represented among journalists.

MANDEL NGAN/AFP/Getty Images

 

Shmuel Rosner, a Tel Aviv-based columnist, is political editor of the Jewish Journal.

FREETHINKER12

2:43 PM ET

March 2, 2012

well....

aipac and extremely pro isreal members that run our media is why america is "obsessed" with isreal.

 

JERRYW

5:21 PM ET

March 3, 2012

why so much attention to Isreal

With so many Americans out of work and a nation-wide epiphany that our reality from now on will be high unemployment and low wages, many Americans including myself are very tired of other countries telling us that we have to take the lead on this issue or that, and we have to protect this country or that. This is why the Ron Paul theory that we should mind our own business and stop letting the world drain us of our treasure is so attractive to young people. Unfortunately, this country is run by people who are still living in the 20th. century visa-vie foreign policy. The world has changed and we need to change as well.

 

REALREALIST

7:15 PM ET

March 3, 2012

moronic freethinker...

you claim that jews control the media? LOL...

Ya, as if the media at large is pro israel in its reporting...LOLOL...

Man are you a clown. a brownshirt gooestepping clown. Just tell me, were yo daddy and grand daddy jew haters too?

 

JAC323

2:06 AM ET

March 4, 2012

Will Israel's mindset conquer this planet?

If I go by what some of the pro Israel mind set is then I can say that Israel is a bigoted racist country where you hope to suck us dumb Chirstians into the war that your country started. How arrogant, how foolish. The real joke is if anybody dissagrees with your hateful, I am superior garbage, then you are an antisemtic. Well bud, you are the the problem not everybody else.

 

MORTIMERSANDERSON

6:18 AM ET

March 4, 2012

Jac323 - anti-semite, or merely a hater of Jews?

It seems typical of those who most hate the Jews that they accuse them of feelings of superiority. Was it not Christ who said that those who follow Him will be rewarded by the Father with eternal life, and that those who do not will be excluded from heaven? True, the Jews have always said that from among them a messiah would come, a man who would guide all nations of the world to a more harmonious and beatific time, but don't Muslims and Christians also have a similar belief? Even Buddhists believe - though they reject the notion of an all-powerful God - that their founder is the one who showed the world the True Path, and that their holy books are the ones which convey this unique knowledge.
Thus, it seems your hatred of the Jews, Jac323, arises from something far deeper than a resentment of their perceived regard for themselves and their beliefs. It comes from the absence within you of that which billions of Christian and Muslim believers and many others all have in common: a sense that they possess special knowledge of the Truth, and are ultimately, therefore, of some importance to their Creator.

 

LEONIDASLEONIDAS

10:35 AM ET

March 4, 2012

A good article

Which, unfortunately, has attracted the usual anti-semitic comments.

This is another aspect of the fixation with Israel: every time it's mentioned, the antisemitic trolls crawl out of their holes, and spew their nonsense.

 

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8:33 PM ET

March 4, 2012

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LEFTY

2:09 AM ET

March 5, 2012

Winners & Losers

The loser doth protest too much. Christianity sided with the losers in WWII. You got caught trying to exterminate the Jews. And you lost.

 

REALREALIST

3:00 PM ET

March 2, 2012

freethinker..what is it with you? have you always disliked jews?

I have yet to hear what you think about chechnya, or chian, or tibet, or waziristan, or syria, or venezuela, or ecuador...etc....etc....etc....

you are an obsessed anti semite. Us jews laugh at you little people.

 

MOOT.POINT

1:12 PM ET

March 3, 2012

Zionist arrogance

"..Us jews laugh at you little people..."

And there it is.

From almost being wiped out as a race during the WWII, the mentality has moved from quiet and dignified humility admired across the world to sycophant to a disgusting hubris disguising a bubbling racism that has existed since time immemorial. There has ALWAYS existed a disquieting isolationist faction of the Jew mentality that perceives itself as superior.

This arrogance only turns 'gentiles' against you ..again.

 

REALREALIST

4:38 PM ET

March 3, 2012

to horsespetoot and freedinker

im merely pointing out facts that you dont seem to address...never. Why? because you can't. Facts are recorded, your babble is invented. We only laugh at the transparent racist idiots like you. We're down with everyone else bro....

am I superior to others? nope, not even a bit...am I superior to you? yes, I am. How can I say that? Because I KNOW i am not a racist, and I KNOW that you are.

 

MARTIAL

5:25 PM ET

March 3, 2012

The fascination with Jews always amazes.

Israel does not control the Suez, although its power to keep it open without US soldiers being present renders it a reasonable recipient of military aid. Muslim nations care not for Palestinians or they'd have found them new homes after sixty years. Wikileaks rarely mentions Jews or Israel; persons writing communiques to superiors desire accuracy, not to pander to public hungers. To deflect the public eye from unnerving matters, such as the century's old conflict, ongoing, between Shia & Sunni, Israel is brought up as the seat of all evil.

 

BEATRIX

7:00 PM ET

March 3, 2012

To Moot Point (Mute Would be Better)

One person sneered at you and 14 million Jews are blamed.

Jews weren't almost wiped out. Although 6 million of Europe's Jews were slaughtered, we lived all over the world. Hitler never came close to wiping us out. And if you think that after the Holocaust Jews were humble or anything other than furious, and that we were treated with dignity and respect by non-Jews, you either weren't around then or you're an idiot.

Stop treating us Jews as something other than human. Your depiction of our saint-like nobility is as ridiculous as our supposed racism (Palestinians and Jews are the same people if that's your source) or isolationism (Palestine keeps talking about isolating Israel, but except for America, no nation is as involved in the world or excites the world's interest as much as Israel does). Israel has too many accomplishments for the world to ignore her.

 

MORTIMERSANDERSON

6:32 AM ET

March 4, 2012

some observations

Fascinating - how you so unknowingly employ both the moral fallacy of collective guilt (implying that the Jews as a group are arrogant and self-deluded, and are therefore worthy of the scorn of good 'Christians' such as yourself), and the even more execrable belief that the Jews brought on - and deserved -their own persecution at the hands of the Nazis.
I dare say, sir, that were others such as the Nazis to come along to try and wipe them out again, we need not doubt that there would be many such as yourself who, if not helping them along, would sit at the wayside declaring, "I told you so."

 

MORTIMERSANDERSON

6:35 AM ET

March 4, 2012

re: my observations

The above post was meant, of course, in reply to moot.point

 

LEFTY

2:29 AM ET

March 5, 2012

Zionist Arrogance? Really?

"Quiet and dignified" is not how Jews have been treated over the last 2,000 years. When Jews were "isolationist" then they were persecuted (Russian pogroms) And when they became assimilated then they were industrially murdered (Holocaust). At any time Jews are either communist filth or capitalist pigs. Make up your mind.

 

KAMATH

10:39 AM ET

March 5, 2012

Hating israel

The author must be a self loathing Jew-Hater.How else can one explain this twisted mind set!

Kamath, Bangalore

 

SIN NOMBRE

3:14 PM ET

March 2, 2012

Amazing myopia

Schmuel Rosner wrote:

"Why Are Americans So Obsessed With Israel?"

One just loves the sly suggestion here that this alleged "obsession" is somehow illegitimate or non-virtuous on the part of Americans, or at least those of us who are so "obsessed."

So let's look at it from a comparison sort of perspective:

Logically, some of our "obsession" stems from

(A) A virtuous concern for Israelis,

and some stems from

(B) A less virtuous concern for something else, such as a selfish concern for ourselves.

Okay, so now let us go to the daily talk of Israeli politicians and figures and pundits—or, say, to make it more quantifiable, the Jerusalem TImes—and see the blanket, near-microscopic, *vastly* greater amount of attention paid by Israelis to America than vice-versa . (And we won't even mention the irony of Rosner being the J-T's correspondent solely *devoted* to reporting on America.)

The same logic applies: Israelis are obsessed with America to some degree by a virtuous concern for America, and to some degree by a selfish concern for themselves.

The question then, to respond to Rosner's sly implication, is which country's citizens are *more* selfishly concerned for their own interests?

And in answering this question what should be the first piece of evidence looked at *other than* what country's citizens actually *get* more from the other than they give?
----

Amazing blindness for you to have brought this up, Mr. Rosner. Not just now, only days from having your PM here using our domestic politics to try to strong-arm our President into launching a war, but especially due to the comparison above.

(Blindness if not insensitivity: You send someone 3+ billion a year and then hear 'em kvetch about how much attention you give 'em? Fine, tear up the checks, I'll stop.)

 

MOHAMEDABED

3:27 PM ET

March 2, 2012

talk about taking your own premise and running with it -

The question then, to respond to Rosner's sly implication, is which country's citizens are *more* selfishly concerned for their own interests?

Huh? Not at all. Rosner is just asking why people are focused on this conflict more than others. There's no implication anyone is "selfish." It's simply a question why do Americans over-analyze the Israeli conflict (such as micro-debating NY Times correspondent tweets, and issues of "pinkwashing") and find it so "entertaining" in a sense.

Colombia received more aid than Israel for years - and had a civil war, drug trafficing issue, etc. Yet, little attention was paid to Colombia's conflict not to mention such seemingly small issues of how Colombia treated its gays (the laughable idea of "pinkwashing").

The question is about entertainment and over-analysis. Nothing about "selfishness."

Sin Nombre- you are having a straw man argument with yourself.

 

THEANTICLAUS

3:55 PM ET

March 3, 2012

SIN LIKES TO ARGUE WITH HIMSELF...

...because nobody interested in intelligent discussion will engage him. He is a small-minded bigot who is himself overly interested in Israel, Jews, Zionists, etc. One only has to look at his previous posts to understand where his interests lie.

 

SPOOD

3:23 PM ET

March 2, 2012

Simple answer

1. The US has one of the largest established jewish populations on the planet.

2. Antisemitism is an integral part of far left and far right screeds.

Frothing at the mouth idiots like Freethinker are proof of how easily antisemitic crap gets flung through the internet.

 

MOHAMEDABED

3:33 PM ET

March 2, 2012

I have to second that response Spood

not to mention its a quick ticket to attention for mediocre writers and academics - aka Stephen Walt, et al.

It's also a safe and easy place for journalists to report from, yet pretend they have a tough combat-style beat. Much easier than living in Afghanistan, Iraq, or heaven forbid anywhere in Africa.

They can ride over into Gaza, come back the same day to their posh home in Tel Aviv funded by the BBC, Times, etc. Can't do that in the Congo.

 

JACOB BLUES

5:00 PM ET

March 2, 2012

Except Spood, that Israel features quite often in other media

outside the US.

OK forget outlets like al-Jazeera, but you look at the BBC.com, go to Le Monde, Turkey's daily Zam Zam, etc. Israel is front and center.

Personally, I'm going with Rosner's idea that Israel is to news junkies what American Football is to America. It's bar talk. The 'Taste Great Less Filling' debate of ideologues and poli sci aficionados.

Either that or its a secret jobs program. Can you imagine how many pundits, journalists and talking heads would be out of work if they didn't have Israel to talk about?

 

SPOOD

5:09 PM ET

March 2, 2012

And your point?

"OK forget outlets like al-Jazeera, but you look at the BBC.com, go to Le Monde, Turkey's daily Zam Zam, etc. Israel is front and center."

And anti-semitism doesn't factor in their discussions either?

There is an unsually disproportionate level of coverage for Palestinians compared to the rest of the Middle East, as well as a lot of mock sympathy for them and outright hostility for Israel coming from the far left in Europe. Turkey didn't become interested in Israel until an Islamicist government took office.

 

NISEMIKI

3:38 PM ET

March 2, 2012

Netanyahu obsessed with US

Why is Netanyahu obsessed with Amercia? Count the number of times he talks in the USA.
I mean the article photo is him giving another speech in the USA. Why does he insist on giving speeches in the US congress. That draws attention in of itself.
Why is Netanyahu obsessed with Democratic presidents? Count the number of times he mentions Obama in his speeches.

Obsession seems to be a 2-way street.

 

HEMLOCKROID

4:01 PM ET

March 2, 2012

Anglo Zionist obsession explained

http://images.indiebound.com/184/515/9780521515184.jpg

 

SIDROCK23

4:02 PM ET

March 2, 2012

u forgot the biblebangers

u left out the part where the bible banging evangelicals and their party of the year " the rapture". u know when all the jews become part of the banga da bible franternty and if they don't, well of to hell with the muslims, gays, illegals, and chinese. we think the muslims are nut jobs? seriously?, here u have the zionists and their wet dream of building the ultimate barbie's dream house in israel. and then u have the bible bangers with their lunatic rapture nonsense. doesn't get crazier than that i will however give credit where it is due. and that is baby israel has america by the nuts, for a country that loves to go around bombing women and children in 3rd world countries to show big and bad they are, they sure to get on their knees with their mouths wide open for baby israel.

 

HEMLOCKROID

4:03 PM ET

March 2, 2012

answer sample

http://assets.cambridge.org/97805215/15184/excerpt/9780521515184_excerpt.pdf

 

BETALOVER

4:15 PM ET

March 2, 2012

American Judeo-Christian religiosity.

The answer is absolutely obvious.

The American Judeo-Christian religiosity.

What I see in the Israel is a group of militarily defeated people unwilling to assimilate for 2000 years.

What I see in Israel is the un-American concept of preserving a culture by isolation or segregation.

What I see in Israel is the absurdity in reclaiming a homeland after 2000 years of no sovereign right over a piece of land.

What I see in Israel is the catalyst of Islamic extremism.

What I see in Israel is a bottomless sinkhole that sucks us dry.

What I don’t see in Israel is any commonality with American ideals, in truth not in the veneer of electrons.

What I don’t see in Israel is any stalwart fortress against the bogyman of Sharia law in the USA.

 

SABABA03

9:10 PM ET

March 2, 2012

Then, you see nothing.

Considering your hate filled rubbish. it is obvious you are not capable of anything else, except your own bigoted nonsense.

 

MARTIAL

5:29 PM ET

March 3, 2012

Sucks us dry?

Our economy is $12 trillion Calculate how much $3,000,000,000 is & then see if the aid economically endangers us.

 

BETALOVER

7:46 PM ET

March 5, 2012

where is the rubblish?

What is so Rubblish? Which part of my post is?

My observations are all correct and pertain to the American situation.

 

BETALOVER

8:33 PM ET

March 5, 2012

No No No US support for Israel is the cause of 9-11

Our support for Israel made use mark men. Our reaction to being marked men cost us a trillion dollars.

Our support for Israel is want caused natural hatred for us and our reaction against such hatred is the sinkhole that sucks us dry.

The aid paid to Israel is not the issue; the issue is that such aid to Israel is the entirely predictable reaction of the Islamic world against Zionism, and its number one champion the USA.

Imagine if a great power forces us to accept an Indian Nation in the middle of Kansas with right of air space, army, a seat at the UN, where all the "natives" from North and South American can come live on their "homeland". This is Israel in America. We will be mad as hell.

Our support of israel causes 9-11 and our reaction toward 9-11 costs us trillion.

Only the blind needs to be told about this obvious fact.

Israel is the problem.

 

AARONJA

4:36 PM ET

March 2, 2012

Israel makes a lot of noise for its size

An American ally with only 7 million people? So that means Israel is on par with America's NATO-ally Bulgaria which has around the same population. However you never hear a peep out of the Bulgars.

The problem with Israel is that it constantly hogs the media with its tiresome Palestinian issue. Except for that it would fade into obscurity like Bulgaria.

 

READYSF

4:37 PM ET

March 2, 2012

There is a reason, silly!

AIPAC acts as Israel's agent, and manages US mideast policy to our detriment. This is why we are erectly obsessed by Israel.

Obama is trying to pivot to China, and the Israel Lobby is pushing it to attack Iran and stay bogged down in the middle east. A good example, don't you think?

The small island of England colonized the giant country of India. The real question is: is the US an Israeli colony? The people most muzzled are Jewish Americans....terrorized by the AIPAC right....

 

SPOOD

5:03 PM ET

March 2, 2012

The responses are not doing much to contradict my claim here

So we have the old tropes of the grand Zionist plot!

"The US government is really run by the Jews who are dictating policy!"

AIPAC has taken the place of "The Elders of Zion" for the generic source of the "EVILJEWISHCONSPIRACY!!(tm)".

Same old bullshit, new form. More proof that anti-semitism is driving the discussion more than anything which can be deemed rational discussion.

 

JOHNBOY4546

7:45 PM ET

March 2, 2012

Is this your task for today, is it, SPOOD?

I noticed it in other talkbacks without bothering to reply, but there does appear to be a pattern here i.e. no matter what the topic, you insist that it is "proof" that anyone who posts on foreignpolicy is an ant-semite.

Did you come up with this tactic yourself, or are you trialing it for someone else?

 

READYSF

9:13 PM ET

March 2, 2012

AIPAC

No, actually many of the AIPAC people are Christian Zionists. But, are they American? Or, do the Israel firsters put Israel first, s they say?

 

READYSF

1:07 AM ET

March 3, 2012

Don't work no more!

I want Israel to LET MY PEOPLE GO!!!I don't want to be colonized. I want my FREEDOM!!!

Go away Netanyahu!!! Get out of my life.

 

SPOOD

2:46 PM ET

March 3, 2012

Johnny, you are not bothering to deny it. Just being whiny

The only thing more lame than bigoted nonsense is complaining about being called out on it.

You are not refuting what I am saying, just being annoyed that I am drawing attention to the fact. Its the kind of bullcrap fallback response you see when people take a bigoted POV. You aren't claiming I am lying about this, you just don't want to be confronted with it up close.

You are annoyed that I am calling antisemites anti-semites, so be it. Its still true.

 

MARTIAL

5:49 PM ET

March 3, 2012

?Isreal firsters?

Are Catholics Vatican firsters? The Vatican is a recognized country. No one uses "Vatican firster"; such would evince religious bigotry.

The America First Committee, the largest anti-war movement in US history, opposed American intervention despite Nazi / Imperial Japanese horrific aggression's having occurred for years. Any list of prominent members http://www.nndb.com/org/039/000057865/ would feature famed Jew baiters like Father Charles Coughlin. Connection between America First then & now: http://spectator.org/archives/2006/09/08/from-america-first-to-america

 

JOHNBOY4546

10:00 PM ET

March 3, 2012

"You are not refuting what I am saying,"...

.."just being annoyed that I am drawing attention to the fact."

What "fact" would that be, SPOOD?

Because it certainly does appear that you are having trouble distinguishing between o.p.i.n.i.o.n. and f.a.c.t.

So much so that you simply assume that *if* you opine (or, in this case, impune) that people post because they are anti-semitic *then* that is a self-evident truth.

Apparently, it's true because you say it's true.

Remind me again who appointed you Anti-Semite Watchfinder In Chief......

 

SPOOD

11:27 PM ET

March 4, 2012

You still aren't bothering to deny what I said

Johnny, complaining about being called an anti-semite still isn't a refutation of it.

You are, you haven't actually disagreed with the assessment, you just don't care to hear it so plainly.

It went from opinion to an acknowledgement on your part by your reaction.

 

JOHNBOY4546

1:27 AM ET

March 5, 2012

"You still aren't bothering to deny what I said"

OK, SPOOD, you continue to insist that people post derogatory comments about Israel because they are anti-semites.

I deny that.

You are soooooo wrong that your comment is a mark of idiocy.

I can only speak for myself, but I post derogatory comments regarding Israel because Israel is being run by a bunch of whining, arrogant, aggressive, spivs who have yet to get their greedy and corrupt minds around the singular fact that it *ISN'T* the 19th century any more and, therefore, a nationalistic policy of colonial expansionism and Diplomacy-by-War *ISN'T* something to aspire to.

The religious leanings of those spivs is immaterial.
Their ethnic and tribal loyalties are of no interest to me.

I Don't Like Them Because They Are A Bunch Of Little Shits, Not Because They Are Jewish.

 

LEFTY

2:48 AM ET

March 5, 2012

Erectly

Yes, the USA is actually a secret colony of the State of Israel. Is this why you are so erect?

 

JAMESB3

5:27 PM ET

March 2, 2012

Creation Myths Matter

America adores Israel because she's our baby and he's our daddy. According to Pres. Obama, Atlantic 2/12, "We in the United States instinctively sympathize with Israel,".

We're God's chosen and the little heathens whose land we stole don't matter until they get nukes or better press.

 

DUBLIN

6:40 PM ET

March 2, 2012

They ain't

It's only 435 Americans in the house of representatives who are intimidated, threatened, or in some cases, even blackmailed to supporting Israel. It is not an obsession, but political fear of losing a seat in the elections. Israel has no economic, diplomatic or technological worth towards the U.S. So it is a worthless country and no decent American should be obsessed with such vanity.

 

SABABA03

9:16 PM ET

March 2, 2012

Israel what?

Dublin you wrote:
"Israel has no economic, diplomatic or technological worth towards the U.S."

I would advise you to do more research on this topic before posting the nonsense you just did.

 

JOHNBOY4546

9:47 PM ET

March 2, 2012

No, hes quite right

Israel is clearly a drag on the US economy, as any $3billion a year basket-case would be.

It is so obviously a diplomatic millstone around the USA's neck that there is little point anyone denying it, let alone an Israeli firster.

And as for technological worth..... what, exactly, do Israel produce where the R&D hasn't been underwritten - if not entirely funded - by Uncle Sam in the first place?

 

JLINKER613

12:23 AM ET

March 3, 2012

You do realize that Israel is

You do realize that Israel is the third largest contributor to NASDAQ after the US and China, right?

I wouldn't say Israel is useless, considering that it is the only stable and democratic American ally in the region. It's pretty beneficial to the US strategically speaking, considering that its right by the Suez Canal. It's also set to become a pretty big energy exporter once it starts to utilize those newly found gas fields in the Mediterraneans.

But honestly, do the republicans know a thing about Israel? It has universal healthcare, which they hate. 81% of Israelis support an ascension to the EU, something Romney hates.

Israel is an American client state and ally. I'd put it up with Taiwan when grouping it with other allies. A geographically important country, an excellent military base, and a valid business partner.

 

JOHNBOY4546

2:33 AM ET

March 3, 2012

Odd arguments, these.....

"You do realize that Israel is the third largest contributor to NASDAQ after the US and China, right?"

The NASDAQ Composite, or the NASDAQ 100?

Either way, no, I didn't know.
And, no, I don't particularly care.

The reason why I don't care is because it doesn't affect my basic argument, which is that most of the important "Israeli technology" is either underwritten by the USA or entirely financed by the USA, and therefore "absent Israel" that technology would simply have had "made in the USA" stamped on it instead.

"I wouldn't say Israel is useless, considering that it is the only stable and democratic American ally in the region"

Being "democratic" is not particularly valued by the USA, "ally-wise".

And Israel is hardly to be considered a "stable ally" when the USA has to constantly tug at the leash in an attempt to stop Netanyahu from biting the neighbours.

"It's pretty beneficial to the US strategically speaking, considering that its right by the Suez Canal."

No, E.G.Y.P.T. fits that description, and is therefore a much more valuable ally to the USA that Israel can ever hope to be.

"It's also set to become a pretty big energy exporter once it starts to utilize those newly found gas fields in the Mediterraneans."

I do hope that is meant to be a joke.....

"Israel is an American client state and ally. I'd put it up with Taiwan when grouping it with other allies"

I don't believe that the USA ever has to fear military adventurism from the Taiwanese government, who don't ever seem to be seeking a "Green Light" from the Pentagon to go BANG! on someone. Unlike some countries I could name.

"A geographically important country, an excellent military base, and a valid business partner."

Leaving aside the question of what, exactly, the phrase "a valid business partner" actually means, that sentence is questionable for a number of reasons:
1) It's geographic position is akin to a pimple on your bum, and about as useful
2) Saudi Arabia has always been a much, much better military base for the USA, and tiny little Barhrain alone if far more useful to US military planners that all the military bases in Israel put together
3) However "valid" (???) it might be as a business partner, it is also a teeny-tiny economy, which means the value of the business that the USA can do with Israel is equally tiny.

Look, here is a little-commented-upon fact that goes a long way towards pointing out how "valuable" Israel is: the Syrian Army has fought shoulder-to-shoulder with the USA more times than the IDF has fought alongside the USA.

Indeed, in every single fight that the USA has had in the Middle East, the singular contribution that Israel has made to the USA's military campaigns has been To Sit In The Corner And Fer' God's Sake Don't Make A F**king Sound.

 

READYSF

11:07 AM ET

March 3, 2012

Yes but....

Taiwan does not corrupt our foreign policy by putting AIPAC leeches in place

 

SPOOD

2:55 PM ET

March 3, 2012

There was not a single coherent point to Jonny's rant

"Either way, no, I didn't know.
And, no, I don't particularly care."

In other words, I will not let facts get in the way of my statements!

Your statements about Israel/US technological contribution are equally spurious. The US does not share technology internationally all that easily unless there is a great deal of national scientific infrastructure to go along with it. It shows a high level of economic

Your dismissal of Israel's democratic government is also rather ridiculous. Out of our allies, which ones have the highest levels of cooperation and trust? Its the democratic ones. Egypt and Saudi Arabia do not have the same level of cooperation with the US as any of its democratic allies.

You have an agenda which is based on bigoted nonsense and and spurious generalizations. There really is no sense in pretending you are carrying out a well reasoned point.

 

DUBLIN

7:18 PM ET

March 3, 2012

John, they wont get it

to start from basics, the act of give and take is one major factor that creates an alliance. And between countries, this is true and not a way of leadership, democratic or otherwise. Saudi Arabia, as despotic as it is, is Uncle Sam's best ally that keeps the gas pumps affordable. U.S has no bases or troop presence in Israel and stores only minimal military supplies in the country, used at will by the IDF. Israel does not have the diplomatic prestige or capacity to marshal support for US interests or policies globally or in its own region and does not do so. On the contrary, Israel requires constant American defense against political condemnation and sanctions by the international community. Israel does not fund aid programs in third countries to complement and support US foreign or military policy as other allies and strategic partners do. Oh! it's hopeless to argue over this... a reasonable person can't find any reason why Israel is our ally, but politics will.

 

JOHNBOY4546

10:27 PM ET

March 3, 2012

"In other words, I will not let facts get in the way"....

*chortle*

SPOOD was so quick to leap on that statement that he didn't bother to read the next paragraph, which begins with "And the reason why I don't care is".....

SPOOD "The US does not share technology internationally all that easily"

Did I ever say that it did?
No, I didn't.

I said that the technological achievements of Israel are significantly funded *by* the USA and, therefore, if Israel wasn't there then that R&D money would simply be invested in the USA.

What the USA would then *does* with that technology is an altogether different issue.

SPOOD: "Out of our allies, which ones have the highest levels of cooperation and trust?"

Sunshine, Obama is having to strain every sinew to stop Netanyahu from attacking Iran even though the USA has told him - time and time again - that they do not want him to launch that attack.

How does that rate on the "cooperation and trust" index, SPOOD?

SPOOD: "Egypt and Saudi Arabia do not have the same level of cooperation with the US as any of its democratic allies."

They. Do. As. They. Are. Told.
They. Have. Fought. Alongside. The. GIs.

The IDF has done neither.

SPOOD: "You have an agenda which is based on bigoted nonsense and and spurious generalizations."

Not this nonsense again.......

And, of course, that screed is immediately followed by.....

SPOOD: "There really is no sense in pretending you are carrying out a well reasoned point."

The ever-difficult double-ad-hom.
Well done SPOOD, your handlers have trained you well.

 

JLINKER613

10:28 PM ET

March 3, 2012

It is not useless, but it is overvalued

Saudi Arabia and Egypt are more likely to throw their lot in with Turkey in coming years, rather than the United States, as Turkey is increasingly becoming a heavier investor in its neighboring economies. I doubt the Egyptians, who have had made in USA tear gas canisters thrown at them, will be too likely to elect a bow to America style leader than one who would be more independent. Bahrain has the same argument, considering a Sunni monarchy presiding over a 90%+ Shiite country isn't going to last. Also, you think Saudi Arabia is an ally? I'd think of it more as a frenemy, considering the amount of funding it puts into those terrorist brainwashing Salafist Schools it keeps setting up.

This is compared to Israel, a country that for the most part has far more bark than bite. You think Netanyahu is going to launch an airstrike on Iran? A country with a population of some 80 million (11 times that of Israel), and missile capability to barrage Moscow and Mumbai? And with a satellite (Syria) that has WMD (chemical weapons), and proxy paramilitary terrorist organizations (Hamas and Hezbollah) surrounding Israel? Its one thing for the Israelis to invade Lebanon when a third of Lebanon's population hates the people Israel was fighting, but you'd really think the Israelis would call for their own smack down? The one time Syria cooperated with the US, it was part of a pan-arab coalition to fight its ideological enemy (Iraq). Israel stayed out of it (while having rockets fired at it by the Iraqis) at the order of the United States, because if it joined the fight all of the Arab League and Pakistan (some 180,000 troops collectively) would have withdrawn support.

Also I meant that Israel has more companies on the NASDAQ 100 than all others but US and China. Israel also has about 16 billion barrels of oil off its shores, and 450 billion cubic meters of gas off of its shores. Also the US spends 3 billion on Israel, out of a 1.4 trillion dollar budget (.00185% of our budget). Its such a drain on our economy isn't it?

Israel's usefulness is that it is obedient, strategically located, and is more likely than any other country in the region to remain in the American camp. As such it is a useful ally, but I do agree that it is talked about too way too much in the US. It should be treated like Taiwan, mostly ignored until someone else brings it up.

 

LEFTY

2:54 AM ET

March 5, 2012

So why are you so obsessed then?

No American force has ever done battle for Israel.

 

BETALOVER

7:54 PM ET

March 5, 2012

No Israel II in Taiwan

If taiwan were made into Israel II the whole Western world will decline faster still.

One Israel is very very burdensome enough, the second one will cause our collapse.

One Israel causes over 1 billion religious people in the Islamic world to hate us; the second Israel will cause over 1.3 billion people who know how to progress economically to hate us. What people on earth will there be?

If the religious and the resources two billion plus work together, our lives will be miserable.

 

JOHNBOY4546

7:42 PM ET

March 2, 2012

Israel is obsessively talked about by Americans because....

...deep down there is something fundamentally wrong with the relationship between Israel and the USA.

After all, it's very rare - and exceedingly odd, if not downright bizarre - to see a Big Ol' Dog being wagged by its Tail.

It is so odd, indeed, that people can't help but notice how odd it is.

That's why it's on everyone's lips i.e. everyone loves a good freak show, and it doesn't come much freakier than this.

 

THEANTICLAUS

4:02 PM ET

March 3, 2012

Deep down...

...there is something wrong with Jonny's head. Your ridiculous accusations regarding Zionist/Jewish propensity for all sorts of evil and underhandedness truly is pathetic. You are yet more proof of Rosner's thesis that Israel receives more press attention, most of it negative, than it is deserving. Hate-mongers like you are one of the reasons Israel receives far more attention than Syria, UK, or any other nation on Earth. Anti-Semitism is alive and well...and as long as folks like you breed, it will continue to be so in the years to come.

 

JOHNBOY4546

10:35 PM ET

March 3, 2012

*chortle*

"Your ridiculous accusations regarding Zionist/Jewish propensity for all sorts of evil and underhandedness truly is pathetic."

Hahahahahahahah!

This in response to a post where I said that seeing a Tail wagging a Dog is a damn peculiar thing.

So peculiar that People Tend To Notice It and, having noticed it, show a thoroughly understandable tendency to want to comment upon it.

That's what I said.
That's ALL that I said.

Your task, troll, is to prove to me that the relationship between the USA and Israel is *not* that of A Tail Wagging A Dog.

Good luck with that task, coz' yur' gonna' need it.....

 

SABABA03

8:18 PM ET

March 2, 2012

why go far to gage?. Scan Prof. Walt's Blogs right here.

Mr. Rosner,
Suffice to scan Prof. S. Walts blogs on this publication. Count the number of comments made to each of his blog.

By most part, his essays are...........well, ktzat Me-Sha'amem, (a bit boring) as reflected by the few comments from readers posted.

Once the title is about Israel, the tree of comments lights up like a Christmas Tree or Hannuka candles.

 

READYSF

9:15 PM ET

March 2, 2012

Why people comment so much on Israel

Comments light up because we like our freedom and don't like to be colonized. We know that we are colonized today. WE DONT LIKE IT!!!!

 

CHARLESFRITH

8:22 PM ET

March 2, 2012

AIPAC

The most powerful lobby controls congress.

 

LEFTY

2:55 AM ET

March 5, 2012

AIPAC

Go check your racism at the door.

 

SIN NOMBRE

9:42 PM ET

March 2, 2012

Confirmation to at least *some* degree methinks

Funny: Just as I observed above with Rosner, those here who object to the level of attention paid in the U.S. to Israel seem to have absolutely no problem whatsoever with the much greater obsession Israel has with the U.S.

Despite what would clearly, overwhelmingly seem to be the case that Israel's obsession with the U.S. is far far more self-interested than is any U.S. obsession with Israel.

Again, who sends who more? Indeed, who sends who *nothing*?

(Except a Prime Minister, demanding that we go to war for them too?)

Would be very interesting to know the full citizenship status of those objecting to the level of attention paid to Israel by Americans.

For those who aren't sole U.S. citizens, it's very hard to see their fundamental position as not being that the U.S. should just continue to send the checks ... and shut the hell up.

 

REALREALIST

11:55 PM ET

March 2, 2012

 

DELTA22

12:08 AM ET

March 3, 2012

-

"...far bloodier conflicts around the world get only a fraction of the coverage that the smallest developments in the Israeli-Palestinian peace process garner."

Yes but when say, Sri Lanka commits crimes against ethnic Tamils in their war against the LTTE, it is condemned for doing so. When Israel goes overboard in dealing with Hamas or worse, pours fuel onto the fire by expanding settlements, it receives praise from American conservatives. This may come as a rude shock to Israelis who say they love their country, but Israel deserves no such praise when it commits wrongdoing....and this record must be straightened out.

 

SPOOD

3:01 PM ET

March 3, 2012

A Palestinian gets a hangnail its on CNN

"Yes but when say, Sri Lanka commits crimes against ethnic Tamils in their war against the LTTE, it is condemned for doing so. "

Actually it gets largely ignored by the world because neither party has the money or the attendant political support to generate interest.

The Palestinians have the entire Arab World writing copy for them. Attacking Israel figuratively and literally is a cottage industry.

"but Israel deserves no such praise when it commits wrongdoing....and this record must be straightened out."

But when such acts are being publicized by people with a vested interest in Israel's destruction, it undermines credibility. Israelis are critical about their nation as the next person living in a democracy with a free press. But when it is being portrayed in such a dishonest light by people more or less in the employ of dictatorships and terrorist groups, its very difficult to take seriously.

 

LEFTY

2:58 AM ET

March 5, 2012

Re: Hangnail

DELTA22, you are spot on!

 

KEYSTONE WARRIOR

1:23 AM ET

March 3, 2012

Give Peace a Chance

I am not obsessed with Israel - but the media needs to make a buck somewhere. I am wondering about the value of the holy land - would it still be holy if we bulldozed it into the Mediteranean Sea?

 

CHRIS HOYT

2:27 AM ET

March 3, 2012

Israel

The reasons Americans are obcessed with Israel are complex. First, there is a large Jewish diaspora here in the US and understandably American Jews are interested in Israel. Second, many Christians in America associate Israel with Biblical tales (duh) that have a powerful effect on their outlook on life. Thirdly, Americans often use Winthropian rhetoric to describe the "exceptionalism" of America, much like Biblical writing on Israel as "promised land" and references to Jews as "chosen people", see any parallels? Also, Israel is a friendly state to the US in an unfriendly region, however most Middle Eastern countries have legitimate reasons for their dislike of the US.

 

TRUTHFUL

5:08 AM ET

March 3, 2012

Personlly, I would appreciate

Personlly, I would appreciate a moment of peace and tranquility without Israel occupying, bulldozing, insulting, bullying, threatening, hyperventilating, posing, bluffing, attention grabbing, selfcongragulating and screaming murder.

 

SISYPHUS70

5:25 AM ET

March 3, 2012

I don't appreciate

the analogy of football and the American public. With football, at least we get a cyclical six month lull and have some anticipation of drinking beer while spouting off. I do however see some similarities between Benjamin Netanyahu and Brett Farve...

 

SISYPHUS70

5:29 AM ET

March 3, 2012

I meant

Favre - in case there are some overly sensitive folks who hang out here.

 

TARQUINIS

12:32 PM ET

March 3, 2012

Obsession with Israel?

While there are many problems in the middle east, only one is our essential bane. Only one that has dragged America into a seemingly unending war with Islam.

For the following reasons it seems to me that the Zionist enterprise has reached its dead end. A few more decades will tell the tale. Israel is in a strategic trap of its own creation. Peace and justice were rejected in favor of ruthless domination. A "master race" based upon false biblical authority. But that cannot last.

New wars against Iran, Turkey, Egypt, or repeatedly devastating Lebanon, can only make a bad situation much worse. Everyone know this.

Here is the problem:

No two state solution: it is now foreclosed by forty years of illegal annexations and forced colonization of the West Bank. Look at a map of the "settlements". They seem to be located in such a manner as to make a Palestinian state not viable. Some 500K super ardent Haredi occupy these "settlements" and it is a fantasy that they ever would leave to make the Palestinian state feasible, nor stay in peaceful accomodation with one. Everyone know this too.

No one state solution: Unacceptable. A state unitary, democratic, and non-sectarian with one person one vote confronts the frankly racist thesis of a state dominated by a particular religious or ethnic group.

No sustainable Apartheid solution: The servile condition of the Palestinians in the West Bank, surrounded by vast concrete walls, and forbidden even to drive on the roads upon pain of immediate and non-recourse confiscation of their vehicle, and the worse reality of the unfortunates in the Gaza ghetto, imprisioned for life, cannot endure in the modern world.

See Shulamit Aloni's summation: "Yes, there is Apartheid in Israel" at:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2007/01/08/yes-there-i...

No "population transfer" solution: Expulsion of millions of Palestinians to Jordan at the point of a bayonet is not feasible.

No military solution: The vast military power of Israel and all its nuclear weapons are useless to resolve this impasse. The cancer is internal, political, economic, demographic and is growing.

Ergo, there is no solution. Dead end. Yes, Israel remains in full control of US policy, but unending war can only in time come to one conclusion. Has it ever in world history been otherwise? The American imprimatur cannot last forever. For my part, I just want America off this bus before it goes over the cliff and takes us with it.

And it is NOT "antisemitic" to say so.

 

SI91

2:15 AM ET

March 5, 2012

A few things here...

A war with Islam is inevitable, not because of Zionism, but because of Islam itself. Islam is predicated upon hate and unending jihad against the entire planet, until Islam reigns supreme, as even a cursory examination of Muhammad's own sickening life story and commandments, binding upon all Muslims forever into the future, reveals. Wherever Muslims are a sizable minority, they fight with the majority, whether it is Jews in the ME, Hindus in India, Catholics in the Philippines, Orthodox in Russia, Buddhists in Thailand, or Communists in China. And wherever they are the majority, everyone else is extinguished, after which Muslims waste resources fighting amongst themselves, blaming the country's backwardness on the wrath of Allah, caused by the others' supposed misinterpretation of Islam. This, of course, results in the elimination of any scant progress the country has made, such as tentative steps in the direction of women's rights, legitimate democracy, secularism, etc. All of this is immediately decried by clerics as un-Islamic, as Muhammad himself preached, and the nation inevitably collapses into destruction, backwardness, and seething hate.

Look at countries that were once considered role models in the Islamic world. Pakistan was created to PROTECT Indian Muslims by Muhammad Ali Jinnah, an Anglicized Muslim who drank and openly called for a state that protected the rights of religious minorities also. However, how a state formed through religiously inspired hate and massacre could ever promote the opposite was left unexplained, and now look at Pakistan: it is a household name for jihad. Look at Iran, which was once an openly pro Western dictatorship that allowed women to wear mini skirts, and promoted Western soft drinks and music. The Shah and his SAVAK were awful but his White Revolution was undoubtedly progressive. Iran was once the home of Cyrus the Great, leader of a proud, prosperous, and productive Persia, who issued what may be the world's first declaration of human rights. Now Iran is a brutal terrorist theocracy rapidly sliding into chaos, and a grotesque human rights violator, all in the name of Islam. And what about Turkey, which had secularism and Westernization imposed upon it at gunpoint by Ataturk? Now it's run by PM Erdogan, who has ruined Turkey's once cordial relations with Israel through his bellicosity, and proudly recited a poem in a public speech which included "The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers." These are hardly coincidences,and note that I have not even mentioned worse countries, like Somalia, Nigeria, and Afghanistan all of which suffer from jihadist insurgency if not outright Islamic thugocracy. And don't even get me started on the Arab Spring, which has brought openly bigoted Islamists to power everywhere. What we in the West consider progressive and humane is not only illegal in Islam, but heretical, and it is why so called "moderate" Muslims never last long in the Islamic world, and so called "true" Islam has never been practiced outside the politically correct fantasyland of liberal useful idiots.

As far as Israel in particular is concerned, even if why accept that Israeli "colonization" makes a Palestinian state impossible, it doesn't necessarily make a solution impossible. If what you're saying is true, then surely the Jewish population in the territories will increase enough to make the Jews a majority there, after which Israel will annex them and give the Arab minority all the rights and freedoms that all Israeli Arabs enjoy, --more than any other Arabs enjoy in any Arab state. The new Israeli Arabs would thus have access to Israel's free and fair elections, (the only ones in the ME), in which they could elect Arabs to the Knesset, all of the public facilities that Jews enjoy, the opportunity for an education completely free of jihadist poison, the right to work and live where they want, marry who they want, etc. They'd have much more personal freedom and a much higher standard of living than they would in any Arab state. That is not to say they would suffer from racism in Israel, but it is important to point out that Palestinians suffer from racism in every Arab state, including Jordan, where they are the majority, but denied equal rights by a Bedouin minority. In Israel, however, these Arabs would be able to take their problems to the courts of Israel's independent judiciary (again, unique in the ME), upon which Arabs can and do serve.

A unitary state would certainly fail, but more because of Palestinian hate propaganda, and anti-democratic tendencies demonstrated in the disgraceful kleptocracy that is the Palestinian National Authority than any racism on Israel's part. A unitary state would taint Israel with the PA's dysfunctional institutions.

The "Apartheid" solution, with its "Israeli only" roads to provide Israelis with a safe means of traveling through the territories without having to fear Arab terrorism, a FENCE designed to keep Arab terrorist out of Israel, with some concrete sections to block Arab sniping, and a blockade on Gaza to pressure Hamas into renouncing its avowed genocidal intentions, is certainly unsustainable in the long term. It can be fixed, however, with an Israeli annexation, which brings me to my next point.

What makes you think that the Palestinians would have to be forcibly evicted? If conditions in the territories are so awful, then surely plenty would want to leave and live in Palestinian dominated Jordan, where they can at least work to reform a functioning system, unlike the PA, which has never properly worked? The solution is to get the Arab states where Palestinians are still forced to live in refugee camps, like Lebanon, which bars Palestinians from over 25 occupations and denies them property rights, to let them do what they want. If they want to integrate, the should be allowed to do that and be given what few rights and freedoms their other Arab counterparts in these countries "enjoy". If they want to leave and go elsewhere, they should be allowed to do that. West Bank and Gaza Strip Arabs should be encouraged with everything short of force and intimidation to go to Jordan or Egypt. The UNRWA, Israel, Jordan, Egypt, and the international community should pitch in and give these Arabs money, homes, food, jobs, etc. Jordan's Bedouin king loosens his grip on the country and becomes a constitutional monarch. This would created a situation much like that in Britain, where the royal family, which is of German descent, rules over an Anglo Saxon population. The Palestinians thus get their self determination, in 80% of the British Mandate for Palestine. Israel, in return, gets to annex the West Bank and Gaza, with the entire world recognizing the land as belonging to Israel, as well as undivided Jerusalem as its capital. The Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza who refuse to leave get the option of citizenship like other Israeli Arabs. If they refuse, they get Jordanian or Egyptian citizenship, essentially having the status of green card holders in Israel. So, there you get two states, for two people, on two sides of the Jordan river with secure and recognized borders, and peace.

 

INJUNTROUBLE

1:18 PM ET

March 3, 2012

Talk less about Israel and also don't subsidize it

Not only should we talk less about Israel, but we should also cut off all aid to it. Israel is a rich country and we can afford give it money while thousands of Americans are without jobs, without healthcare, even homeless. In fact we should ask for our money back at least from the last decade.

 

MARTIAL

5:52 PM ET

March 3, 2012

Cut off ALL military aid then.

Four times as much goes to Israel's enemies. Let them fend for themselves. Oil, not Israel, afflicts America in this respect. If we could get off the oil habit, we could get out the region entirely.

 

DILBERT

1:24 PM ET

March 3, 2012

Obsession

otherwise known as excessive preoccupation, is a part of the spectrum of compulsive mental disorders that have always caused people to put unexplainable focus on Jews wherever they have taken up residence. Why this particular mental disorder is imparted to the general population who live in the same area with Jews (even microscopic amounts of Jews) is one of the great mysteries of nature.

According to the latest stats, there are about 5.11 millions Jews in the USA, out of total population of 312 million, or about 1.66%. Total worldwide, Jews are about 0.19% of the population. Yet, as Rosner points out, even the most insignificant events about the Jewish State become news headlines in just about every news outlet on the planet.

Seems those crafty Jews must have some powerful magic up their sleeves (or under their hats) to be able to fully control the other 99.81% of the world's feeble minds. I just wonder what amazing things the rest of humanity could come up with if they invested just 10% of the time they spend on vilifying the Jews, and actually did something useful with their pitiful lives.

 

KAMATH

11:24 AM ET

March 5, 2012

 

BECOOL

1:36 PM ET

March 3, 2012

obssessed? They need to wake up

Obssession is a mamldy and kind of addiction that need an urgent treatment! Yes, I agree that this kind of obssession exists in US. I also believe that this kind of obssession causes a severe damage to the relationship of US and the other middle eastern countries especially Egypt! The Europeans fully understood it and they began to correct their policies. Concerning the issue of what is called Judo-Christians this is a hoax and never exists, we all know how the Jews feel toward Christians and what they do against them in Israel, they don't say it openly in US because Uncle Sam has the power and that's it! The US really need to re-direct its interest and see what's really is good for the Americans only! By the way: The word antisemetic may include the Arabs also because they are the offspring of Sam as well !

 

GATLINGUN6

2:16 PM ET

March 3, 2012

How to divide the Pie

How can 2 people equitably divide a finite sized pie, if one of the negotiators is munching on the pie throughout the negotiation. How do you negotiate any agreement on anything if any party requires preconditions that should be the subject of the negotiation. How does one who has all the power negotiate with one who has no power.

There was a time when the old Soviet Union threatened to wipe out the U.S. and they had the means to do it. They had murdered an untold number of their own citizens, plus they fomented open rebellion around the world. They were our implacable enemy, yet we still talked to them without preconditions. We still treated them like a rational actor.

How did we get to a world where apparently you are only supposed to talk to your friends, and never your enemies?

For you wiser heads than I, please tell me what is the future of Israel if there is never an agreement between the Jewish State and the Palestinians; therefore, no Palestinian State is ever established? That is the real question. And finally who benefits from the status quo?

 

DILBERT

2:50 PM ET

March 3, 2012

The future

Israel already agreed to have a Arab (Palestinian) state in 1947. When the Arab side finally accepts the idea of partition and is willing to have an Jewish state on any part of the historic land of the Jewish people, THEN and only then, will a solution be possible.

 

PETERKJ

3:54 PM ET

March 3, 2012

Well..

Well you are usually preoccupied where you go interests at stake.. /Sökoptimering

 

REALREALIST

4:33 PM ET

March 3, 2012

who said the quote below?

“Of the 300 million Arabs in the Middle East and North Africa, only Israel’s Arab citizens enjoy real democratic rights. Now, I want you to stop for a second and think about that. Of those 300 million Arabs, less than one-half of 1 percent are truly free and they’re all citizens of Israel.

This startling fact reveals a basic truth: Israel is not what is wrong with the Middle East; Israel is what is right about the Middle East.”

 

LEFTY

3:10 AM ET

March 5, 2012

Only Israeli Arabs...

...enjoy full democratic freedoms.

 

M.EZZALARAB

9:54 AM ET

March 5, 2012

Israel is what is right about the Middle East......What a Joke!

REALREALIST, you need to get realistic here. Israel is everything that is wrong in the Middle East. I'm not anti-semetic, I just see things as they are. Israel has been commiting genocide for the past fifty years against the Palestinians, the only reason why Iran is so facinated with Nuclear Weapons is because Israel seems to be priding itself in their Nuclear Weapons Arsenal. To be honest, the nation of Israel is a disgrace to human rights and peace. As a Jewish person, you should be ashamed of your so called "homeland" as it continues to massacre innocent children and families for no apparent reason. You need to get your head on straight and stop making a fool of yourself.

 

BING520

6:36 PM ET

March 3, 2012

Israel

I have been fascinated by Americans’ obsession with Israel. I came as graduate student from Taiwan to Pennsylvania 30 years ago. It did not take long for me to descry the high degree of interest in Israel-US relationship.

When I moved to Los Angeles after graduation, I had a Jewish roommate from Yale. She is not very religious and not a staunch supporter of Israel either. She thinks many Jewish Americans would support Israel at all cost, but a lot more like herself would always think America first. She explained American’s obsession with Israel partly comes from devout Jews and partly from fundamentalist Christians, who harbor a remote dream in which one day Jews will join Christians in a final battle to defeat Muslims and convert en masse to Christianity. She stressed that “defeat” means eradication of Muslim as a faith. At then I thought it was the most incredulous tale I ever heard. She of course thinks it is crap and doesn’t believe Jew would ever convert en masse to Christianity. Over the past 30 years I heard that story quite often, but I have never met anybody who takes that tale seriously.

Nor has anybody explained to me convincingly why Americans, particularly American politicians, pay so much attention to Israel. Jewish voters don’t determine the outcome of presidential election. Candidates supported by Jewish constituents won 9 of the last 18 elections. The population of Jewish Americans is larger than that of Israel, but accounts for 2% of the total US population, much smaller than Asians, Latinos and Blacks. Why do 98% pay attend to 2% over such a long period of time? If the news media are dominated by Jewish journalists, it still begs the question – why Americans want to read about Israel over and over again. We are not tired of reading it.

AIPAC don’t determine the outcome of presidential election. I would say its power and influence is not all encompassing. Even though we assume AIPAC, who do we let it gain so much power. Someone offers our moral obligation to Israel. I don’t think we should have one. I feel more morally obligated to Native Americans. After all we have done something bad to them, not Jews.

I am glad Shmuel Rosner popped the question, and read every comment. Not a single one looks convincing. Nobody ever tries to explain why we Americans want to read so much about Israel and endorse our candidates who demand us to throw so much our prestige and power behind Israel.

 

REALREALIST

7:11 PM ET

March 3, 2012

Americana are lovely, if a little stupid people....

they have to do whats best for them, and israel has to do whats best for it. Take your damn money..we dont need it. We have our own industries, high tech sector, lots of oil and nat gas coming online...

we will help you, we will like you, we will respect you, we will even help fight for you, BUT we wont turn over OUR security to you. If your president now wants to reneg on his promise vis a vis iran, ok..thats his prerogative. It will be an historical mistake, but thats his problem, his legacy. WE will STILL do what WE need to do.

END OF STORY.

 

BEATRIX

7:17 PM ET

March 3, 2012

To Moot Point et al

One person sneered at you and 14 million Jews are blamed.

Jews weren't almost wiped out. Although 6 million of Europe's Jews were slaughtered, we lived all over the world. Hitler never came close to wiping us out. And if you think that after the Holocaust Jews were humble or anything other than furious, and that we were treated with dignity and respect by non-Jews, you either weren't around then or you're an idiot.

Stop treating us Jews as something other than human. Your depiction of our saint-like nobility is as ridiculous as our supposed racism (Palestinians and Jews are the same people if that's your source) or isolationism (Palestine keeps talking about isolating Israel, but except for America, no nation is as involved in the world or excites the world's interest as much as Israel does). Israel has too many accomplishments for the world to ignore her.

AIPAC is a successful American lobbying group. Not as successful or powerful as AARP, but just as American and just as legal. American Jews and non-Jews have as much right to like Israel as Irish Americans have to like Ireland and Scandinavian Americans have to like lutefisk.

Do you think we Jews are the only people proud of our heritage?

 

BETALOVER

9:00 PM ET

March 5, 2012

"Do you think we Jews are the

"Do you think we Jews are the only people proud of our heritage?"

Subjectively most ethnic parents think that their culture is very important and must also be very important to their offspring.

Most minorities assimilate eventually because objectively, and subjective to those who assimilate, assimilation is a salubrious social outcome to both society and those who assimilate.

The subjective feeling of ethnic parents is one thing; the objective virtues of assimilation prevails more often.

Most militarily defeated people either assimilate or face discrimination. Why would the Jews in 1947 not be required to either assimilate for face discrimination. This is just fact of life.

Why didn't the USA seek oput all the defeated people in the world and grant them all a "homeland"?

Racial minorities in the USA face discrimination.

Assimilation should have been the solution for the Jews, why not? Why "homeland" just for the Jews?

 

SIN NOMBRE

10:34 PM ET

March 3, 2012

What you see depends on where you sit

As I said above I do think there's a little blindness on the part of Israelis like Rosner talking about Americans' supposed "obsession" with Israel and not seeing the far far greater obsession that Israel has with America.

And indeed in addition to this blindness at least a little insensitivity too: No matter what you just don't go asking and getting, year after year, decade after decade, for big gobs of cash and help otherwise from someone, and then kvetch about the giver talking about it. If you resent that kind of talk don't ask for the checks.

But beyond that I think there's also a big basic difference in perspective between our peoples that you can't blame on either.

The Israelis after all have grown up (and indeed never really have known) peace, and are used to sacrifices for their national interest, and are admirably tough about it. What incredibly high percentage of Israelis, for instance, know what it's like to lose a family member to war or some horrible terrorism, or the member of some family that it's otherwise close to? And what Israeli *doesn't* know all the other kinds of costs that conflicts have imposed on them? Constantly high gas prices, burdensome mandatory military service ... and on and on.

We Americans on the other hand have been relatively insulated from conflict—in good part just by the luck of geography—and indeed have this idea that's somewhat valid and yet also somewhat stupid that everyone loves us. So when we get into a conflict, it's a big deal. And when it costs us something ... well it's a very big deal to us. Seems almost unnatural even.

So, by definition almost because our involvement *with* Israel has been so influenced by if not totally dependent on conflict—helping Israel here or there in one of its conflicts, or our own conflicts that somehow seem to involve Israel in some way, such as with Iraq or 9/11—this somewhat "gets into the frame of our picture of Israel."

In short—and it's *not* totally fair—we can hardly *think* of Israel without it jarring us in a way: It always seems to be about conflict in one way or another, and thus possibly costing us in blood or treasure. And this thus captures our attention to a great degree.

Yet to Israelis, with perfect validity given their experience, they see our costs compared to theirs as trifling. Laughable even. What the hell do we really know of conflict and sacrifices and costs compared to them? How can we be such freaking babies about it all?

Like I say, I don't think you can thus "blame" either side for this. (Or if you can, it would more seem to be the naivete or insularity of us Americans if anything.)

But it's just more a matter of ... radically differing perspectives, stemming from radically differing experiences. And how do you "blame" one side or another for that?

 

ANDREWP111

2:17 AM ET

March 4, 2012

Why Israel matters

Israel and its conflict with Islam are the keystone of world order. Nobody cares about conflicts in Africa or Central America because they don't affect anything outside of the combatants. People must remember several things: (1) Israel's conflict is not really with "the Palestinians" - it is a conflict with Islam itself. The Palestinians are merely Islam's front line soldiers who are assigned the task of martyrdom for Islam. (2) The world depends on Mideast oil resources (3) events on the Mideast can plausibly escalate into worldwide thermonuclear war.

Israel receives more attention because it matters more than any other small country on the planet.

 

SIN NOMBRE

3:09 AM ET

March 5, 2012

You can't demand attention, and then object to getting it

This is a very, very trenchant comment by ANDREWP111.

I'd also add something more: While there's certainly some validity in Rosner's talk about America "obsessing" about Israel at some times, when we see the Israeli leadership, on daily basis, indeed saying that it is warning the entire world of a grave, imminent and *global* danger, well what are we supposed to do? Pretend that those Israelis are Martians who have no connection with Israel with there thus being no valid looking at Israel's situation in all this?

Seems to me that if, say, it was the leadership of Finland even saying what Netanyahu and Barak have been saying that Iran threatens the world, even then Finland's situation would be getting some scrutiny. Thus it's no surprise when Israel gets same in the present situation.

Plus then we see Israeli figures talking about how Iran wants to and is getting the ability to carry out another Holocaust, and then going further and (very persuasively) saying to the world and the West especially that we all have an obligation to prevent this.

Can hardly be given same that the world and the West can't then talk about the validity of these assertions and must just accept them without debate....

 

PAOLO69

10:20 AM ET

March 4, 2012

Israel's Relevance

Israel's relevance is based on only one thing. The amount of money the Jewish lobby is able to convince America to send over with no strings attached. Israel insures there is constant conflict and Israel markets the situation to insure maximum sympathy insuring an easy sell to America. Israel has infiltrated America on every level so have the right people in all the right positions to push their agenda. Since WWII the Jewish lobby has marketed their plight better than anyone else. Now we see the Muslims following the Jews lead and soon America will become a third world toilet because these brothers can’t get along.

 

BING520

1:41 PM ET

March 4, 2012

Obsession

Shmuel Rosner is right. We are obsessed with Israel. No other topic ever precipitated such a fusillade of passionate comments on FP. I think we actually talking about Israel much more than Israelis.

 

BEATRIX

4:31 PM ET

March 4, 2012

The Sands of Home

Israel's conflict with Islam stems from the fact that for years the Europeans colonized, exploited and subjugated the Mideast and the other Mideasterners identify Israel with the West.

Jews have been in the Mideast for 4,000 years and did not start the problems with Islam. The West did. But, like America, many Israelis have ancestors that immigrated from Europe and so she does identify with the West.

Eventually, Islamic nations will surpass or at least become as powerful as Western nations, or Israel's people will feel more Mideastern than Western, and then they'll have peace.

The Islamic people know better than any other people on the planet that the Israeli Jews belong in the Mideast and that the Israelis are never going anywhere else.

 

LEFTY

3:19 AM ET

March 5, 2012

The West

The West has made a mistake by allowing oil to be controlled by the whims of radical Islamic groups. At the same time Christianity, being a major factor in the Holocaust, has suffered a major setback during its defeat in WWII.

 

JONNEY LEON

7:56 AM ET

March 5, 2012

Lesson for Israel

This is very important topic for Israel. Because the due to some points Israel want to beat America in war which is not possible. So I recommend that both should think about piece and joy, because war can destroy only, which will ruined both countries.
Sell my car

 

JONNEY LEON

7:58 AM ET

March 5, 2012

Lesson for Israel

This is very important topic for Israel. Because the due to some points Israel want to beat America in war which is not possible. So I recommend that both should think about piece and joy, because war can destroy only, which will ruined both countries.
Sell my car

 

2012OGRHR

8:38 AM ET

March 5, 2012

OGRHR(Earth’s inhabitants brand business network)

root of all evil is man-eating devil Communist Party of China; eat devil Chinese Communist Party Earth becomes no value! 2012 must be the eradication of the Communist Party of China! The Earth's inhabitants to new students!
According to physics, the earth is a whole;
We are all Earth’s inhabitants ? Earth’s inhabitants are omnipotent ?Brand building business networks in the Earth’s inhabitants. Clear truth;People value?
OGRHR ( Earth's inhabitants brand commercial network) brand killer to eat people the devil to Communist persecution;
lifesaving Earth residents???

 

REALREALIST

9:01 AM ET

March 5, 2012

news out of germany and japan...not good.

http://www.debka.com/article/21794/

 

KAMATH

11:06 AM ET

March 5, 2012

Jewish Contribution

The distinguished British historian Niall Fergusson wrote in his latest book, " The West and the Rest...", ,.

”.. The Jewish role in Western intellectual life in the twentieth century - especially in the United States - was indeed disproportionate, suggesting a genetic as much as a cultural advantage. Accounting for around 0.2 per cent of the world's population and 2 per cent of the American population, Jews won 22 per cent of all Nobel Prizes, 20 per cent of all Fields Medals for mathematics and 67 per cent of the John Clarke Bates Medals for economists under the age of forty. Jews also won 38 per cent of the Oscars for Best Director, 20 per cent of the Pulitzer Prizes for non-fiction and 13 per cent of Grammy Lifetime Achievement Awards…” Niall Fergusson

A little unknown person Lesey Shore, Toronto, wrote“…Wherever they live, Jews make a disproportionate contribution to their country's cultural, scientific, medical, ethical, social, philosophical, philanthropic and political life. Germany, Austria, Poland, Russia, the Czech Republic, Spain, Portugal and the Mideast and the North African countries .......”

Just a thought!

Kamath, Bangalore, India

 

BETALOVER

8:47 PM ET

March 5, 2012

no chosen ethnic groups

This is now 2012. After so much social struggle, Americans should stay VERY far from any suggestion that any ethnic group has had greater contribution to humanity. This is the root cause of any bigotry based on ethncity.

What is best for the Haiwaiians in 2000 is also the best for the Jews.

In 2000, the US Senate rejected the Akaka Bill that could have given the Hawiians cultural autonomy. the Senate cited the Amerian "tradition of assimilation".

What was the best for the Jews in 1947 was also assimilation. Many countries in the world made the blunder of allowing Israel to exist, now we all pay the price. The USA is the greatest champion of Zionism, so we are the most obvious target.

Hatred of Zionism in the Islamic world, wrong or right, progressive or conservation, is entirely natural and predictable. as Marshall put it for Truman.

 

KXB

11:33 AM ET

March 5, 2012

Which Americans are you talking about?

If you refer to craven politicians, then yes, they seem awfully obsessed with Israel. Could it be that because AIPAC is so adept at getting its way on Capitol Hill, and will close its checkbook if politicians do not adhere to its strict Likud-line of thinking?

Outside of DC and media centers in DC and NY, most Americans are not concerned about Israel. It is not a major trading partner, is not a major source of investment, is not a tourist destination outside of church groups. It's military has never fought alongside the U.S., it hosts no military bases, and is among the top three nations, with Russia and China, in carrying out spying activities in the U.S. (according to the FBI)

Given Israel's string of failures - Lebanon in 1982, again in 2006, and Gaza in 2008 - it is hard to make the case that Israel is a valuable asset to the United States.

 

BETALOVER

7:59 PM ET

March 5, 2012

hatred against our situation

I have a profound hatred of the situation that the USA is in.

Such hatred is not against a sack of cement, it is against irrational religosity that put us in such absurd situation.

 

FRANK OF AMERICA

1:04 PM ET

March 6, 2012

There are several reasons why

There are several reasons why the US is obsessed w/Israel.

A) US government support of an outlaw rogue regime which, in contradiction to the letter and spirit of international law, regularly violates the territorial integrity of sovereign nations, illegally represses an entire people, occupying and settling their land, has made innocent Americans legitimate targets in the eyes of radical Islam. Its a fact. We have spilled much blood and expended much treasure in support of this tiny country. 9/11 was, in large part, a direct result of America's unbalanced support of Israel. Its a fact - there's no denying it. Case closed.

B) Anything that happens in that neighborhood, as long as the world is addicted to oil, is going to have a huge effect on the world's economy.

C) Religion. Jerusalem is the focus and locus of three of the world's great religions. Its an unfortunate fact that prevents rational discourse about peace agreements.

 

PENYAKIT DIABETES

4:45 AM ET

March 11, 2012

Israel's rights

Israel has the legal right to protect his country from her enemies.
Penyakit diabetes - Cara membuat blog -Baju Muslim - Alat kesehatan

 

NESTOR ESCHETE

2:59 AM ET

March 30, 2012

America’s Obsession With Israel and Iran

The United States is obsessed with Iran and Israel.
It’s not just the Administration in Washington that enjoys this weird fixation, because many Americans, including all Republican presidential candidates, agree with Israel that Iran is an enemy and must be dealt with in a drastic military fashion. Pending that final solution, the tactics are to try to strangle the country by imposing vicious sanctions and to threaten to cripple the economies of other nations that attempt to maintain commercial links with Tehran. As has been obvious for decades, sanctions on any country have little adverse effect on its leaders, but penalize the poor and weak by making their miserable lives even more dismal than usual.