Foreign Policy: Without fundamental changes, what do you believe is the future of the Catholic Church?

Geoffrey Robinson: I see this whole question of sexual abuse and the response to it as crippling much of the work of the church. When the local church speaks out on some other question, I’m afraid nobody is listening. Until this is confronted, I’m afraid that loss of credibility will continue and get worse. The same problem exists internally. Authorities within the church have lost credibility with their own members. One similarity between [the United States and Australia] is that what’s keeping the church strong, numerically speaking, is the great migrant factor. Take that away, and you have a quite steep decline.

FP: What’s the first thing the pope should do to resolve the sexual abuse crisis?

GR: I will know the Catholic Church is truly serious when it places obligatory celibacy on the table for discussion. I don’t believe the celibacy requirement is the sole cause of abuse, but it has become a litmus test.

The problem is not celibacy, but obligatory celibacy. Mother Teresa freely chose a celibate life because it was the only way she could do what she felt called to do, what she wanted to do. By making it obligatory, you create numerous priests, who want to be good priests, but who are living an unwanted and unaccepted celibacy. Unwanted celibacy can contribute to unhealthy psychology, such as severe depression. It can contribute to unhealthy ideas—for example, misogyny. It can contribute to unhealthy living conditions, including loneliness and lack of support. When these three things come together, you have the circumstances in which sexual abuse can arise.

FP: Have you learned anything about the Catholic Church from the reaction to your book that you didn’t already know?

GR: It’s brought home just how many people are looking for change, and this includes people in their 80s who have told me that what I’ve said is what they’ve believed for the last 40 years, since the Second Vatican Council. The questions I’m asking are their questions. I’ve received a large volume of correspondence, and many of these letters are moving. They come from people, including some who are quite elderly, who love the church but who believe there is a real need for change.

Before I left for a speaking tour in the United States, I received a letter from the Vatican telling me not to go. It asserted that the people who invited me are not in communion with the church. But in my experience, it’s the exact opposite. I met people who were profoundly Catholic, who have spent all their lives in the church. Some who turned up were priests and former priests, but there were also lots of retired people who had raised families and served the church in every possible way. If these people are not in communion with the church, then we have a massive, massive problem.

FP: You wrote the book before Pope Benedict XVI’s trips to the United States and Australia, where he spoke candidly on the sexual abuse crisis and met with victims. Is this the kind of strong leadership that has been lacking?

GR: He has certainly gone further than his predecessor, and I welcome what he’s done. But it doesn’t go far enough.

FP: What else should he do?

GR: You may be aware that in February of this year, the prime minister of Australia apologized to the “Stolen Generation” of Aboriginal people. These are indigenous persons who were taken from their families and entrusted to white families in the mistaken belief that it would be better for them. It was a superb apology. He apologized without conditions. He promptly acknowledged that an apology in itself is just words, so it must be put into action. He spoke about what he would do and said that he would be accountable through regular reports to parliament. He also had the symbolism right, speaking with a significant number of members of the Stolen Generation in front of him. That’s what I would hope to see from the pope. He should apologize, but then say this is what we’re going to do, when we’re going to do it, and how we’ll be accountable. I haven’t yet seen that.

FP: You complain the pope is too powerful, yet you want him to exercise even greater power on the sexual abuse issue. Isn’t that a contradiction?

GR: What I would have liked the pope to have done was to recognize the massive importance of the subject of sexual abuse and its impact on the church, and then to consult with others about how to respond. What I object to is that the entire response of the church depended to the extent it did on the personal response of one individual. Had he consulted with others, including Catholic parents who would have had strong views, he could have made a highly effective speech in St. Peter’s Square calling the whole church to respond together. I don’t want to take authority away, but I want it to be exercised in a more collegial manner.